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demitap
Lithuania143 Posts
On April 23 2012 22:55 Benjamin99 wrote: The first zerg Huk would run into and he would auto lose. Huk wont do well until he gets his horrible PvZ under control no chance against any good terran either, polt, thorzain including | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On April 23 2012 22:12 Liquid`NonY wrote: I'm not denying that other people have other interests. I pointed some of them out. But a tournament isn't about anything really. There's a competition going on and it can be presented in any number of ways that prioritize different interests. Mood and production value are important to a lot of people. My two biggest priorities are game quality (best players in the world playing interesting games) and stream quality (clear video and audio). So for me, MLG was far better. I've just observed that if you have a lot of white people in your tournament and you have a lot of people clapping and cheering on the stream, then that makes a lot of people in the community very happy. Of course, these things are not SC2. So I'm stuck in the minority of people who are fans of SC2. I understand your perspective, but you're in a very small minority. Most people don't have the time or the talent to learn the game well enough to really appreciate the subtleties of a certain build. It's really condescending to imply that you have to be a pro player to be a fan of SC2. The people who paid 30$ for DH tickets aren't fans of SC2? Not only is it condescending, it's also wrong. No, I'm not good enough at SC2 to typically enjoy watching a VOD without commentary and without knowing who the players are, just watching the game. There's more that goes into creating an enjoyable viewer experience than just the most minor details that make some players stand out to you. Good casters add to the enjoyment, a good atmosphere at a live event adds to the enjoyment and so does a good storyline (Korean vs foreigner in his home town). There's nothing wrong with that and it also doesn't mean that the quality of play is irrelevant. It's obvious that the starting field at DH was a lot weaker than at MLG and that was a minus for DH, the other parts made up for it though. I don't think it was the best event ever, mostly because of the players and the games, but it was still more enjoyable for me than MLG. If I go see a live music performance and there's a good atmosphere then I'm going to have a much better time than I would listening to a technically more proficient performance at home on my stereo, even if it's an instrument that I play well enough to appreciate the difference. It's about having an experience, not just being a robot looking at someone's performance. Music isn't just about technique and SC2 is entertainment just as much as it is a game about minor details. | ||
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Technique
Netherlands1542 Posts
On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote: And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH. This is what Tyler is talking about, the quality of play was much better at MLG....if you preferred DH that's great! Just admit to yourself that you're not interested in watching the best games, you're looking for something else. There where 4-5 protoss players at DH that are better then huk... so no... he would not have. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
We now have a strong argument for GSL 2012 Code S S3 seeds being Stephano and Thorzain. Would that ever be awesome? Naniwa will be in that GSL too since he made the Ro8 of this GSL. Stephano hinted that he'd be going to Korea around the same time GSL S3 starts so that indicates he may have accepted a seed. Naniwa + Thorzain + Stephano in GSL Code S would be awesome, as they are likely the best foreigners of each race. If that happened, it would be the most watched Code S ever I think. | ||
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chuckboris
56 Posts
On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote: MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering. you sound a little bitter  ? and of course if you take 8 players that are top 8 material even from a full mlg and play them off against each other many times , the standard of games has to be higher than a full tournament of games? i'm sorry if i completely missed the point, but im not sure 'what' you where responding to hope you win everything soon btw  /big fan | ||
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Angel_
United States1617 Posts
On April 23 2012 22:45 Zzoram wrote: Thorzain also comfirmed yet again his place as the best foreigner Terran, a position he's held since TSL3. Foreigner Terrans seem to be largely disappointing, with only Thorzain able to stand among the titans of SC2. This is strange because we always hear about how "generic Korean Terrans" are so numerous and the best players. If Terran is so OP, why can't foreigners (other than Thorzain) win with it? Honestly I think it's an issue of fundamentals. If you watch foreign terrans, there's just a lot of LITTLE things that all add up a lot. Im not talking at all about unit control either, which people like mkp and mma just disgust me with how good they are. Stupid things, like not walling off your third, or unseiging all your tanks at once, or always keeping your tanks in a clump, or not making absolutely sure the mauraders are at the front of your ball, or not pulling scvs early to repair, not brining injured units back to your base to repair, pushing into a zerg base with hellions when you don't need to, etc...And then fundamental things, like "making units with your buildings". I can understand having an idle factory if you're going marine medivac, but there's a lot of times where people in general, but especially foreigners, will prioritize getting an upgrade with their money or building X, and just stop making units. When you apply that to terran, that has no way of just...drilling a shit load of larva into roaches at once, it makes for smaller armies than you have and you don't actually get the benefit of that upgrade because you just have too much less stuff. it's just a bunch of little things that add up and change terran into this blerg bunch of players. Aside from the fact that there just aren't that damn many of them anyway at the top level. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
Quality of games isn't everything. A big portion but not everything. MLG--------------------DH 8 players---------64 players HuK ---------------Many foreigners Silence------------Crowd Tiptop quality---Decent quality Best casters----Good casters I also get annoyed by the we-are-all-friends atmosphere at MLG. Takes the tension away a bit. MLG had a 2v2 tournament though. Best shit I saw in a long time. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On April 23 2012 22:50 Tyree wrote: But dont you see that its a negative that MLG had better players but still held a worse tournament? You had the absolute best talent, but your event felt like a LAN party at Dave's house. Ive had LAN parties that felt more "epic" than that one. The other tournament had lesser players but it felt more important because everything else was top notch. Thus it feels like Dreamhack overdelivered while MLG did the oppossite. The best product was at Dreamhack, the live crowd and production values felt like watching a event of importance, the outcome of the tournament could not have been better. A real, geniune storyline was told, one that foreigners have been waiting for since TSL 3, not a bunch of GSL rematches. The MLG event was like having Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Wade and Chris Paul play cards at a appartment, looking casual. It didnt feel important despite the big names being there. Whats important and who is a star is all about perception, if there is no crowd there to make these guys seem important then they arent, neither are the matches, nor who wins it. If one didnt know better they would think Polt and Thorzain were gods of SC2, absolute top of the mountain of the competition, best of the best, Muhammed Ali and Joe Fraiser. While the guys at MLG were local tomatoes, not good enough to compete at the big stage. Thats speaks alot about Dreamhack but even moreso about this closed off, LAN-like event that MLG held You're missing the point I think. The argument is that the best players laying the best games makes the best tournament. That's where I am. It doesn't matter what "stars" are there, or even who is playing. To me, production value is clear audio, smooth HD video, and competent observing. If you wanted to watch some DH level games, you can right now, in first person, players live streaming. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On April 23 2012 22:59 Technique wrote: There where 4-5 protoss players at DH that are better then huk... so no... he would not have. There is one for sure, and you could maybe argue that there were 2. 4-5 is wrong. | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: I enjoyed watching DH more than watching MLG. Quality of games isn't everything. A big portion but not everything. MLG--------------------DH 8 players---------64 players HuK ---------------Many foreigners Silence------------Crowd Tiptop quality---Decent quality Best casters----Good casters I also get annoyed by the we-are-all-friends atmosphere at MLG. Takes the tension away a bit. MLG had a 2v2 tournament though. Best shit I saw in a long time. Decent quality? DH was tv level at production. I might argue that was at the level of GSL with the end event. Everything was smooth. And MLG 10$ / DH 0$ If you wanted to watch some DH level games, you can right now, in first person, players live streaming. Actually it's the other way around, because I can watch the fps camera (aka stream) from MKPs ladder practice and see awesome games. However I can't watch a stream with crowd, venue, booths, music on certain cues, etc. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:31 Koshi wrote: I enjoyed watching DH more than watching MLG. Quality of games isn't everything. A big portion but not everything. MLG--------------------DH 8 players---------64 players HuK ---------------Many foreigners Silence------------Crowd Tiptop quality---Decent quality Best casters----Good casters I also get annoyed by the we-are-all-friends atmosphere at MLG. Takes the tension away a bit. MLG had a 2v2 tournament though. Best shit I saw in a long time. Really? I thought that was a large part of why people liked Homestory Cup, the friendly atmosphere. | ||
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ramask2
Thailand1024 Posts
MLG provided better games with top Code S level players. However, the limited player pool provided fewer upsets and hypes than big tournaments can provide. Thankfully they got a cool final with DRG finally triumphing over MKP in a close series. It could have been much worse. I actually thought the hilarious 2v2s was the surprise highlight of the tournament for me. Dreamhack showed lesser quality games, but created a much higher level of emotional investments from me. You have Thorzain, without a major victory in a year, playing in a final on his own home turf, against a Korean player he has abysmal record against. The storyline pretty much writes itself. The games might not be the best (I thought they were pretty good), but damn wasn't it exciting to watch. Personally as an SC2 fan, I enjoyed both events. | ||
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TheSir
1830 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:34 ceaRshaf wrote: Decent quality? DH was tv level at production. I might argue that was at the level of GSL with the end event. Everything was smooth. And MLG 10$ / DH 0$ Actually it's the other way around, because I can watch the fps camera (aka stream) from MKPs ladder practice and see awesome games. However I can't watch a stream with crowd, venue, booths, music on certain cues, etc. DH's production was the best i have ever seen from a esport event. | ||
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ramask2
Thailand1024 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:11 Zzoram wrote: Naniwa + Thorzain + Stephano in GSL Code S would be awesome, as they are likely the best foreigners of each race. If that happened, it would be the most watched Code S ever I think. Or maybe even better yet, create a new F.United, featuring Naniwa, Thorzain, Stephano, Huk, Morrow, Sase and other notable foreigners still in Korea. That should be good business for GOM, I think. | ||
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Kaesebrot
Germany128 Posts
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gruff
Sweden2276 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:34 Zzoram wrote: Really? I thought that was a large part of why people liked Homestory Cup, the friendly atmosphere. I think it was a mix of that and seeing the players getting drunk. If MLG starts handing out alcohol between the game next arena you'll see people rave about how awesome it is..  | ||
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:52 Kaesebrot wrote: DH was the way better event. 10$ for a 8man tourney without a crowd? I hope no one bought it. Dreamhack had great production, great crowd and a awesome storyline. :D I bought it but didn't have time to watch a lot of it and now I can't event watch the vods for some reason. Worth my money^^(not) | ||
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Technique
Netherlands1542 Posts
On April 23 2012 23:33 Zorkmid wrote: There is one for sure, and you could maybe argue that there were 2. 4-5 is wrong. Well huk seems to do well in pvps, but his p vs z/t is really not good. He basically only wins those if he gets some big advantage or plain kill with his first timing attack. As for the 4-5. I'd say Genius, Naniwa, Sase and Mana are definitely better then Huk and a 5th could be Socke (especially considering Huk probably practices twice as much and on the Korean server as well). | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote: And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH. This is what Tyler is talking about, the quality of play was much better at MLG....if you preferred DH that's great! Just admit to yourself that you're not interested in watching the best games, you're looking for something else. Huk wouldn't have roflstomped just about anyone in his current form. | ||
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FunnyPicture
Sweden147 Posts
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