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On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:19 demitap wrote:
Sorry, but sometime you really make me feel like you're sad person, DH Finals was so much more exciting than mlg, mlg was cold, sad and really not better than any weekly cup this time, while DH had this amazing crowd, more players and at least foreigners fought back against koreans( I'm not trying to bash huk, but he got Roflstomed this mlg, humiliated) And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH. This is what Tyler is talking about, the quality of play was much better at MLG....if you preferred DH that's great! Just admit to yourself that you're not interested in watching the best games, you're looking for something else.
huk in his best condition would have finished 3-4, cant see him beating thorzain or polt, he has to man the fuck up coz loosing to strelok made me actually realise that he is now seriously a Code-B material, i am surprised he took series against ganzi, bet he did something gimmicky
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On April 23 2012 22:14 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:11 jj33 wrote:On April 23 2012 22:08 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 23 2012 22:05 jj33 wrote:On April 23 2012 22:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering. By this standards IPL 4 is the best event that there ever was. Sorry but a tournament is also about the mood and production value. He didn't claim any standard, he just said MLG was better because quite frankly the player list was way better and the games were better as a result. So what exactly you didn't understand from my post? A tournament is not only about games, there are lots and lots of other factors that add up and define a tournament as being good. If he is talking from a progamers perspective that he wants to learn new things or study strategies then ok, but tournaments are not made for progamers but for the masses, casual masses. you want atmosphere and drama go watch wwe. sc2 is a highly competitive game, ultimately the skill level is what matters. MLG was for the hardcore fan. 7 koreans in a room playing the ultimate games. And you must really really want to see them because you will also pay to do so. The one thing you get is quality games. It's not bad, but other tournaments can top that with production value and mood. And don't kid yourself, drama is a big part of esports.
Um, MKP vs DRG for the 3rd MLG finals in a row, with DRG having lost the last two added plenty of drama to MLG SA1. Also, Huk was there too. It's not anyone else's fault that he placed last.
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On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:19 demitap wrote:
Sorry, but sometime you really make me feel like you're sad person, DH Finals was so much more exciting than mlg, mlg was cold, sad and really not better than any weekly cup this time, while DH had this amazing crowd, more players and at least foreigners fought back against koreans( I'm not trying to bash huk, but he got Roflstomed this mlg, humiliated) And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH.
HuK was off but I definitely think there were 4-5 people at MLG that had a good chance of winning DH. In fact if you put all 8 MLG players into DH, then the chance of one of them winning DH is like 90% haha
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On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:19 demitap wrote:
Sorry, but sometime you really make me feel like you're sad person, DH Finals was so much more exciting than mlg, mlg was cold, sad and really not better than any weekly cup this time, while DH had this amazing crowd, more players and at least foreigners fought back against koreans( I'm not trying to bash huk, but he got Roflstomed this mlg, humiliated) And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH. This is what Tyler is talking about, the quality of play was much better at MLG....if you preferred DH that's great! Just admit to yourself that you're not interested in watching the best games, you're looking for something else.
Huk would have Roflstomped Polt, Monster, Genius, Naniwa, Thorzain.....?
What makes you say such things except being a fanboy?
Huk can win against all these players, but so can they against him...
I don't have to admit anything except that i want to watch the best tournament.. Which is better if it also shows the best games, but no tournament will EVER do that. There is just to much pressure in any tournament setting to allow this.
Yes, most/many of the participants of MLG-Arena would have been favorites to win Dreamhack Eizo... And?
One was a 10 man invitational, the other a big ass open tournament.
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On April 23 2012 22:36 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote:On April 23 2012 22:19 demitap wrote:
Sorry, but sometime you really make me feel like you're sad person, DH Finals was so much more exciting than mlg, mlg was cold, sad and really not better than any weekly cup this time, while DH had this amazing crowd, more players and at least foreigners fought back against koreans( I'm not trying to bash huk, but he got Roflstomed this mlg, humiliated) And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH. This is what Tyler is talking about, the quality of play was much better at MLG....if you preferred DH that's great! Just admit to yourself that you're not interested in watching the best games, you're looking for something else. Huk would have Roflstomped Polt, Monster, Genius, Naniwa, Thorzain.....? What makes you say such things except being a fanboy? Huk can win against all these players, but so can they against him... I don't have to admit anything except that i want to watch the best tournament.. Which is better if it also shows the best games, but no tournament will EVER do that. There is just to much pressure in any tournament setting to allow this.
Jeebus...All I'm saying is that the worst player at MLG arena could have won DH. I hate HuK lol.
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On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering.
Agreed. At least with the first two sentences, before you turned into a collosal dick. The games were better, the first person was great, as was the analyst discussion cool. But that's about it. The atmosphere was muted and storylines almost non-existant (until the finals obv).
During the FIFA 2002 world cup, two storylines riveted me. One was my home country, the other was that of Senegal. A team that had never qualified before, who beat reigning champions France in their first match, then tied with Denmark and Uraguay to come second in their group, and then beat Sweden in the Ro16.
Underdogs and home pride. It makes a big difference to the enjoyment you can get out of a tournament. Someone to root for, someone to cheer for. DRG's my favourite player out of the 8 there and I was cheering for him in this tournament, but I'd always cheer for demuslim or bling over him. I WANT an upset, whether it's a big one like scarlett or a relatively lesser one (not taking away from them but they're already great) like Ret > Genius or Nerchio > Hyun.
There's continual complaints about "useless games", especially since Naniwa's blizz cup scandal. MLG doing round robin, fine, but playing all 3 games even if a winner is already decided? IMO round robin lacks suspense, at least before it gets to the last few matches, and then it can be very confusing (such as, I believe, drg v parting being eliminated was decided after drg had won his last series, but not before his last game? wat). I have nothing invested in those games. I'm hesitant to complain too much about round robin, since having more games played with less players is only a good thing though.
DH wasn't a perfect event (whole first day was pretty retarded), but it was a bigger one, a more hyped one, and arguably a better one.
tl;dr: The games were better, the actual event wasn't. Lack of storylines and suspense lead to me feeling less invested in the results of the games. If I was watching the vods I'd much prefer the MLG ones, but I wasn't. I was watching entire tournaments.
edit: Trimmed it up a bit because I rambled like fuck.
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On April 23 2012 22:37 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:36 Velr wrote:On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote:On April 23 2012 22:19 demitap wrote:
Sorry, but sometime you really make me feel like you're sad person, DH Finals was so much more exciting than mlg, mlg was cold, sad and really not better than any weekly cup this time, while DH had this amazing crowd, more players and at least foreigners fought back against koreans( I'm not trying to bash huk, but he got Roflstomed this mlg, humiliated) And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH. This is what Tyler is talking about, the quality of play was much better at MLG....if you preferred DH that's great! Just admit to yourself that you're not interested in watching the best games, you're looking for something else. Huk would have Roflstomped Polt, Monster, Genius, Naniwa, Thorzain.....? What makes you say such things except being a fanboy? Huk can win against all these players, but so can they against him... I don't have to admit anything except that i want to watch the best tournament.. Which is better if it also shows the best games, but no tournament will EVER do that. There is just to much pressure in any tournament setting to allow this. Jeebus...All I'm saying is that the worst player at MLG arena could have won DH. I hate HuK lol.
You are from Canada. You can't hate huk.
Love to pull the nationality argument.
But you being so off with your prediction I think it's true.
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On April 23 2012 22:35 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote:On April 23 2012 22:19 demitap wrote:
Sorry, but sometime you really make me feel like you're sad person, DH Finals was so much more exciting than mlg, mlg was cold, sad and really not better than any weekly cup this time, while DH had this amazing crowd, more players and at least foreigners fought back against koreans( I'm not trying to bash huk, but he got Roflstomed this mlg, humiliated) And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH. HuK was off but I definitely think there were 4-5 people at MLG that had a good chance of winning DH. In fact if you put all 8 MLG players into DH, then the chance of one of them winning DH is like 90% haha
whats so funny about that ? yeah they would most likely won that, but some people really gets tired of seeing koreans vs koreans action, mlg finals was meh compared with DH, i watched both and when thorzain won i literally wanted to high five that awesome motherfucker, but when + Show Spoiler + won all i did was turning off stream.
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Usually Nony speaks indisputable truth but this time I have to say his slightly...well, sneery observation on other people's values when it comes to tournament experience is off the mark and misses the point.
If you're a pro, yeah probably you're gonna pretty much ignore atmosphere and focus on the game that is your job to play. But for us mere fans, you want to be emotionally invested in the games, because that's why you fucking watch, not just for displays of technical skill. It's what being a fan IS. And it's hard to be emotionally invested in a tournament played in a silent office. It has it's appeal, certainly/
But TheSir's example was the exact same on I was going to use. If Barcelona and Real Madrid are playing on a local pitch with no audience and it's televised, sure I'll watch it.
But if it's at Camp Nou with 100,000 people there screaming and the players look like fucking gods when they walk into that giant arena you're like HOLY SHIIIIIT IT'S EL CLASICO TIME THIS IS IT.
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Dreamhack was pretty much a testament that a huge skill gap is forming between "S class" players ( kind of silly to say this with the game only being a year old and the entire scene is going to be rocked with new players) and strong competitors that are falling off like flies as time goes on. There's a difference between pro gamers and competitors, and it's becoming more apparant and will continue to do so as time goes on.
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On April 23 2012 22:38 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:37 Zorkmid wrote:On April 23 2012 22:36 Velr wrote:On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote:On April 23 2012 22:19 demitap wrote:
Sorry, but sometime you really make me feel like you're sad person, DH Finals was so much more exciting than mlg, mlg was cold, sad and really not better than any weekly cup this time, while DH had this amazing crowd, more players and at least foreigners fought back against koreans( I'm not trying to bash huk, but he got Roflstomed this mlg, humiliated) And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH. This is what Tyler is talking about, the quality of play was much better at MLG....if you preferred DH that's great! Just admit to yourself that you're not interested in watching the best games, you're looking for something else. Huk would have Roflstomped Polt, Monster, Genius, Naniwa, Thorzain.....? What makes you say such things except being a fanboy? Huk can win against all these players, but so can they against him... I don't have to admit anything except that i want to watch the best tournament.. Which is better if it also shows the best games, but no tournament will EVER do that. There is just to much pressure in any tournament setting to allow this. Jeebus...All I'm saying is that the worst player at MLG arena could have won DH. I hate HuK lol. You are from Canada. You can't hate huk. Love to pull the nationality argument. But you being so off with your prediction I think it's true.
I don't hate him, but not a fan since he left TL.
By your same logic, you're a twilight fan.
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Ok so we know, Nony will talk for 30 minutes about the games of MLG and 2 minutes about a game from DH of, probably, Genius.
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MLG's games were better IMO, but I was really sour that Parting got eliminated even though he beat DRG head to head and had, in that respect, a better overall score. This nonsense about winning percentage versus other tied players is unnecessary when one does a Round Robin + single elimination. It was clear simply from overall map scores that Heart had won more maps than DRG or Parting, so he was through. Then it came down to DRG v Parting, and IMO it should have been Parting due to his 2-1 victory over DRG, but for some reason MLG went with a cardgame-style rule rather than a sports tournament one.
Whatever, DRG did end up winning, but it definitely makes you think what could have been.
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On April 23 2012 22:43 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:38 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 23 2012 22:37 Zorkmid wrote:On April 23 2012 22:36 Velr wrote:On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote:On April 23 2012 22:19 demitap wrote:
Sorry, but sometime you really make me feel like you're sad person, DH Finals was so much more exciting than mlg, mlg was cold, sad and really not better than any weekly cup this time, while DH had this amazing crowd, more players and at least foreigners fought back against koreans( I'm not trying to bash huk, but he got Roflstomed this mlg, humiliated) And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH. This is what Tyler is talking about, the quality of play was much better at MLG....if you preferred DH that's great! Just admit to yourself that you're not interested in watching the best games, you're looking for something else. Huk would have Roflstomped Polt, Monster, Genius, Naniwa, Thorzain.....? What makes you say such things except being a fanboy? Huk can win against all these players, but so can they against him... I don't have to admit anything except that i want to watch the best tournament.. Which is better if it also shows the best games, but no tournament will EVER do that. There is just to much pressure in any tournament setting to allow this. Jeebus...All I'm saying is that the worst player at MLG arena could have won DH. I hate HuK lol. You are from Canada. You can't hate huk. Love to pull the nationality argument. But you being so off with your prediction I think it's true. I don't hate him, but not a fan since he left TL. By your same logic, you're a twillight fan.
bodied by logic, RIP.
These events being so different and at the same time really is rather interesting to see how the community feels about such a difference in atmosphere, presentation, and gameplay.
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On April 23 2012 22:42 solidONE wrote:
Dreamhack was pretty much a testament that a huge skill gap is forming between "S class" players ( kind of silly to say this with the game only being a year old and the entire scene is going to be rocked with new players) and strong competitors that are falling off like flies as time goes on. There's a difference between pro gamers and competitors, and it's becoming more apparant and will continue to do so as time goes on.
Thorzain also comfirmed yet again his place as the best foreigner Terran, a position he's held since TSL3.
Foreigner Terrans seem to be largely disappointing, with only Thorzain able to stand among the titans of SC2. This is strange because we always hear about how "generic Korean Terrans" are so numerous and the best players. If Terran is so OP, why can't foreigners (other than Thorzain) win with it?
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On April 23 2012 22:45 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:42 solidONE wrote:
Dreamhack was pretty much a testament that a huge skill gap is forming between "S class" players ( kind of silly to say this with the game only being a year old and the entire scene is going to be rocked with new players) and strong competitors that are falling off like flies as time goes on. There's a difference between pro gamers and competitors, and it's becoming more apparant and will continue to do so as time goes on. Thorzain also comfirmed yet again his place as the best foreigner Terran, a position he's held since TSL3. Foreigner Terrans seem to be largely disappointing, with only Thorzain able to stand among the titans of SC2. This is strange because we always hear about how "generic Korean Terrans" are so numerous and the best players. If Terran is so OP, why can't foreigners (other than Thorzain) win with it?
Because Thorzain has the skill and the drive to be more than just a competitor, and be a professional. Some are striving to do so, but I think that's also a matter of coincidence and circumstance that there are not very many strong foreign terrans. But I mean do the math, the hardest working foreigner Terran stays on top, along with Kas who's a machine playing consistently and constructively for longggggg hours.
that's what it takes to be a pro, gimmicky people and gimmicky play is going to fade out as this gap expands.
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On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote:
Show nested quote +
And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH.
This is what Tyler is talking about, the quality of play was much better at MLG....if you preferred DH that's great! Just admit to yourself that you're not interested in watching the best games, you're looking for something else.
But dont you see that its a negative that MLG had better players but still held a worse tournament? You had the absolute best talent, but your event felt like a LAN party at Dave's house. Ive had LAN parties that felt more "epic" than that one. The other tournament had lesser players but it felt more important because everything else was top notch. Thus it feels like Dreamhack overdelivered while MLG did the oppossite.
The best product was at Dreamhack, the live crowd and production values felt like watching a event of importance, the outcome of the tournament could not have been better. A real, geniune storyline was told, one that foreigners have been waiting for since TSL 3, not a bunch of GSL rematches.
The MLG event was like having Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Wade and Chris Paul play cards at a appartment, looking casual. It didnt feel important despite the big names being there.
Whats important and who is a star is all about perception, if there is no crowd there to make these guys seem important then they arent, neither are the matches, nor who wins it.
If one didnt know better they would think Polt and Thorzain were gods of SC2, absolute top of the mountain of the competition, best of the best, Muhammed Ali and Joe Fraiser. While the guys at MLG were local tomatoes, not good enough to compete at the big stage. Thats speaks alot about Dreamhack but even moreso about this closed off, LAN-like event that MLG held
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Kas is good but he never performs at big international events. Thorzain is the only foreigner Terran to win a big event with Koreans IIRC, and he's won two now if you count TSL3 where he beat Fruitdealer and MC in the tournament where MC accidentally won a game against a foreigner with 3gate pressure and lost 0 units.
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I do not get the whole MLG vs Dreamhack thing at all. They are clearly going for very different things (this weekend). I did not watch MLG but the games probably was a great deal better since they had only GSL dudes there.
That being said.. What I like the most is a good foreigner vs koreans tourney and since MLG only had HuK, DH had alot of them. Both tournaments are great. I rarely miss a MLG and never a DH.
I guess SOTG will be nony and JP talking alot of MLG and iNcontroL talking alot of Dreamhack. But i do not care. Its not like I listen to SOTG because they spend alot of time on all tournaments. I listen to it because I like the chemistry on the show.
If you want a show where they actually discuss game balance and talk at all of other tournaments Inside The Game will give you more of that. SOTG makes me laugh and so I will continue listening to it.
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On April 23 2012 22:37 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:36 Velr wrote:On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote:On April 23 2012 22:19 demitap wrote:
Sorry, but sometime you really make me feel like you're sad person, DH Finals was so much more exciting than mlg, mlg was cold, sad and really not better than any weekly cup this time, while DH had this amazing crowd, more players and at least foreigners fought back against koreans( I'm not trying to bash huk, but he got Roflstomed this mlg, humiliated) And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH. This is what Tyler is talking about, the quality of play was much better at MLG....if you preferred DH that's great! Just admit to yourself that you're not interested in watching the best games, you're looking for something else. Huk would have Roflstomped Polt, Monster, Genius, Naniwa, Thorzain.....? What makes you say such things except being a fanboy? Huk can win against all these players, but so can they against him... I don't have to admit anything except that i want to watch the best tournament.. Which is better if it also shows the best games, but no tournament will EVER do that. There is just to much pressure in any tournament setting to allow this. Jeebus...All I'm saying is that the worst player at MLG arena could have won DH. I hate HuK lol.
The first zerg Huk would run into and he would auto lose.
Huk wont do well until he gets his horrible PvZ under control
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EPT
