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8748 Posts
On April 23 2012 22:01 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering. By this standards IPL 4 is the best event that there ever was. Sorry but a tournament is also about the mood and production value.
I'm not denying that other people have other interests. I pointed some of them out. But a tournament isn't about anything really. There's a competition going on and it can be presented in any number of ways that prioritize different interests. Mood and production value are important to a lot of people. My two biggest priorities are game quality (best players in the world playing interesting games) and stream quality (clear video and audio). So for me, MLG was far better. I've just observed that if you have a lot of white people in your tournament and you have a lot of people clapping and cheering on the stream, then that makes a lot of people in the community very happy. Of course, these things are not SC2. So I'm stuck in the minority of people who are fans of SC2.
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On April 23 2012 22:06 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:04 turdburgler wrote:On April 23 2012 22:03 jj33 wrote:On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering. I just saw your post, so not sure if sarcastic, but THANK YOU!! As a fan of sc2, so sick and tired of the korean whining when koreans win. So many racists on TL, they only support "foreign players" which in most cases are white ppl. supporting a certain player/team/country in sports isnt racist. On April 23 2012 22:04 iNcontroL wrote:
lololol tyler
I'm sorry but you ran track/cross country. The idea of you not appreciating crowds is incredibly underwhelming hey thats not fair, there are no crowds for cross country.... ;D NO it isn't but the level it happens on TL is. Always the suble jabs are koreans, saying they are robots etc etc and how they just tune off when they don't no more foreigners left. Also about supporting country, oh so now all foreigners are all 1 country? right.
no but you and probably other people are just generalizing when they say these things. i have nothing against koreans, i want to see the best player win, but at the same time how can i feel attached to a player whos responses to questions gets lost in translation? for all we know mkp is the funniest guy alive but 90% of what he says comes out as "things went as i hoped" because translating is hard. so ye im less interested when players i think are fun/interesting are out but i dont think that makes me a racist.
On April 23 2012 22:12 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering. By this standards IPL 4 is the best event that there ever was. Sorry but a tournament is also about the mood and production value. I'm not denying that other people have other interests. I pointed some of them out. But a tournament isn't about anything really. There's a competition going on and it can be presented in any number of ways that prioritize different interests. Mood and production value are important to a lot of people. My two biggest priorities are game quality (best players in the world playing interesting games) and stream quality (clear video and audio). So for me, MLG was far better. I've just observed that if you have a lot of white people in your tournament and you have a lot of people clapping and cheering on the stream, then that makes a lot of people in the community very happy. Of course, these things are not SC2. So I'm stuck in the minority of people who are fans of SC2.
but the way youre phrasing it sounds so degrading to the other peoples opinions. and taking the virtuous stance of "game quality is all that matters" seems pretty hypocritical since youre famous for saying "oh i didnt watch it, there was no protoss"
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I never said atmosphere isn't important, but if you have crap players with atmosphere, its called flash and no substance.
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On April 23 2012 22:04 iNcontroL wrote:
lololol tyler
I'm sorry but you ran track/cross country. The idea of you not appreciating crowds is incredibly underwhelming
you were totally awesome (except for that bracelet thing lol)
and I do wish all tourneys had a FPview. If we could combine geoff and the DH crowd and the out of game production with the in game production of MLG, we win.
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On April 23 2012 22:11 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:08 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 23 2012 22:05 jj33 wrote:On April 23 2012 22:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering. By this standards IPL 4 is the best event that there ever was. Sorry but a tournament is also about the mood and production value. He didn't claim any standard, he just said MLG was better because quite frankly the player list was way better and the games were better as a result. So what exactly you didn't understand from my post? A tournament is not only about games, there are lots and lots of other factors that add up and define a tournament as being good. If he is talking from a progamers perspective that he wants to learn new things or study strategies then ok, but tournaments are not made for progamers but for the masses, casual masses. you want atmosphere and drama go watch wwe. sc2 is a highly competitive game, ultimately the skill level is what matters.
MLG was for the hardcore fan. 7 koreans in a room playing the ultimate games. And you must really really want to see them because you will also pay to do so. The one thing you get is quality games. It's not bad, but other tournaments can top that with production value and mood.
And don't kid yourself, drama is a big part of esports.
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On April 23 2012 22:12 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering. By this standards IPL 4 is the best event that there ever was. Sorry but a tournament is also about the mood and production value. I'm not denying that other people have other interests. I pointed some of them out. But a tournament isn't about anything really. There's a competition going on and it can be presented in any number of ways that prioritize different interests. Mood and production value are important to a lot of people. My two biggest priorities are game quality (best players in the world playing interesting games) and stream quality (clear video and audio). So for me, MLG was far better. I've just observed that if you have a lot of white people in your tournament and you have a lot of people clapping and cheering on the stream, then that makes a lot of people in the community very happy. Of course, these things are not SC2. So I'm stuck in the minority of people who are fans of SC2.
why dont you go watch replays then? best sound and video quality ever and you can even chose your games`! 
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On April 23 2012 22:12 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering. By this standards IPL 4 is the best event that there ever was. Sorry but a tournament is also about the mood and production value. I'm not denying that other people have other interests. I pointed some of them out. But a tournament isn't about anything really. There's a competition going on and it can be presented in any number of ways that prioritize different interests. Mood and production value are important to a lot of people. My two biggest priorities are game quality (best players in the world playing interesting games) and stream quality (clear video and audio). So for me, MLG was far better. I've just observed that if you have a lot of white people in your tournament and you have a lot of people clapping and cheering on the stream, then that makes a lot of people in the community very happy. Of course, these things are not SC2. So I'm stuck in the minority of people who are fans of SC2.
So you can't be a fan of SC2 just because you also like having a good atmosphere at the tournament with big great crowds, good player interviews (and player interaction in general) in a couch (for example) after every game?
Kind of lame how almost every post I see from you seems to contain subtle jabs at people.
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On April 23 2012 22:12 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering. By this standards IPL 4 is the best event that there ever was. Sorry but a tournament is also about the mood and production value. I'm not denying that other people have other interests. I pointed some of them out. But a tournament isn't about anything really. There's a competition going on and it can be presented in any number of ways that prioritize different interests. Mood and production value are important to a lot of people. My two biggest priorities are game quality (best players in the world playing interesting games) and stream quality (clear video and audio). So for me, MLG was far better. I've just observed that if you have a lot of white people in your tournament and you have a lot of people clapping and cheering on the stream, then that makes a lot of people in the community very happy. Of course, these things are not SC2. So I'm stuck in the minority of people who are fans of SC2.
So you must not really understand why people go to stadiums to see football/basketball/etc games when the best viewing experience is home on the tv with lots of close ups and camera switches. The whole crowd experience and chanting is useless i guess.
As I said, you seem to speak from a progamers perspective. You are not the main viewing target of a tournament, you should be the subject that is viewed.
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On April 23 2012 22:12 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering. By this standards IPL 4 is the best event that there ever was. Sorry but a tournament is also about the mood and production value. I'm not denying that other people have other interests. I pointed some of them out. But a tournament isn't about anything really. There's a competition going on and it can be presented in any number of ways that prioritize different interests. Mood and production value are important to a lot of people. My two biggest priorities are game quality (best players in the world playing interesting games) and stream quality (clear video and audio). So for me, MLG was far better. I've just observed that if you have a lot of white people in your tournament and you have a lot of people clapping and cheering on the stream, then that makes a lot of people in the community very happy. Of course, these things are not SC2. So I'm stuck in the minority of people who are fans of SC2.
Sorry, but sometime you really make me feel like you're sad person, DH Finals was so much more exciting than mlg, mlg was cold, sad and really not better than any weekly cup this time, while DH had this amazing crowd, more players and at least foreigners fought back against koreans( I'm not trying to bash huk, but he got Roflstomed this mlg, humiliated)
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On April 23 2012 22:12 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering. By this standards IPL 4 is the best event that there ever was. Sorry but a tournament is also about the mood and production value. I'm not denying that other people have other interests. I pointed some of them out. But a tournament isn't about anything really. There's a competition going on and it can be presented in any number of ways that prioritize different interests. Mood and production value are important to a lot of people. My two biggest priorities are game quality (best players in the world playing interesting games) and stream quality (clear video and audio). So for me, MLG was far better. I've just observed that if you have a lot of white people in your tournament and you have a lot of people clapping and cheering on the stream, then that makes a lot of people in the community very happy. Of course, these things are not SC2. So I'm stuck in the minority of people who are fans of SC2.
The way you've put "white people" in both your recent posts points to some kind of spite towards people who don't put the game quality first. By your reasoning, people who like "white people clapping" could substitute the actual game being played for any other game (e.g. LoL, HoN, CoD, whatever) and it would still be the same thing - WRONG! These things are in fact also SC2, and hardly any other e-sport can muster that kind of live audience cheering for their favourite players. It should come as no surprise to the racism-acussers that Thorzain got the most cheers as he was battling in his home country.
You're being very close-minded here. The main storyline of DH was far more interesting, with Thorzain not winning anything since TSL3 and now finally conquering some of the best players (albeit not the very top koreans) to claim his first victory in a long time on home soil. Furthermore, I thought the games were very good too, although maybe not as good as the MLG ones, which I didn't see.
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On April 23 2012 22:19 Soulrivers wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:12 Liquid`NonY wrote:On April 23 2012 22:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering. By this standards IPL 4 is the best event that there ever was. Sorry but a tournament is also about the mood and production value. I'm not denying that other people have other interests. I pointed some of them out. But a tournament isn't about anything really. There's a competition going on and it can be presented in any number of ways that prioritize different interests. Mood and production value are important to a lot of people. My two biggest priorities are game quality (best players in the world playing interesting games) and stream quality (clear video and audio). So for me, MLG was far better. I've just observed that if you have a lot of white people in your tournament and you have a lot of people clapping and cheering on the stream, then that makes a lot of people in the community very happy. Of course, these things are not SC2. So I'm stuck in the minority of people who are fans of SC2. The way you've put "white people" in both your recent posts points to some kind of spite towards people who don't put the game quality first. By your reasoning, people who like "white people clapping" could substitute the actual game being played for any other game (e.g. LoL, HoN, CoD, whatever) and it would still be the same thing - WRONG! These things are in fact also SC2, and hardly any other e-sport can muster that kind of live audience cheering for their favourite players. It should come as no surprise to the racism-acussers that Thorzain got the most cheers as he was battling in his home country. You're being very close-minded here. The main storyline of DH was far more interesting, with Thorzain not winning anything since TSL3 and now finally conquering some of the best players (albeit not the very top koreans) to claim his first victory in a long time on home soil. Furthermore, I thought the games were very good too, although maybe not as good as the MLG ones, which I didn't see.
The finals were so back and forth, with Tzain going full Korean. I thought it was awesome.
However I did not see the MLG games, but at this point DRG and MKP are more like brands, their name is enough to call the games good.
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On April 23 2012 22:12 jj33 wrote:
I never said atmosphere isn't important, but if you have crap players with atmosphere, its called flash and no substance.
Well.. Of which tourney do you speak with "crap players"?
The field at Dreamhack was very strong. Not the strongest there ever was but in no way "weak".
If tourneys would soley be about the best play ever, they would look TOTALLY diffrent than even this MLG-"thing" last weekend... But tourneys aren't only about the play.
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DH should def get some love, more people watched that and the MLG arena was literally a $10 3-day mini-GSL, I already have a 1 year pass to the GSL. The extra casters and commentary seemed nice, if not too much, and DRG overcoming MKP was surely a sick final storyline.
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On April 23 2012 22:12 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On April 23 2012 21:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
MLG's games were far better than DH's. Having fpview was a nice perk too. Of course, I happen to be a fan of SC2. I know a lot of people in the community are bigger fans of white people and shots of people clapping and cheering. By this standards IPL 4 is the best event that there ever was. Sorry but a tournament is also about the mood and production value. I'm not denying that other people have other interests. I pointed some of them out. But a tournament isn't about anything really. There's a competition going on and it can be presented in any number of ways that prioritize different interests. Mood and production value are important to a lot of people. My two biggest priorities are game quality (best players in the world playing interesting games) and stream quality (clear video and audio). So for me, MLG was far better. I've just observed that if you have a lot of white people in your tournament and you have a lot of people clapping and cheering on the stream, then that makes a lot of people in the community very happy. Of course, these things are not SC2. So I'm stuck in the minority of people who are fans of SC2.
I would say a bigger factor than people yelling and people being white is the games/tournament mattering. Dreamhack is a big deal. MLG Spring Arena 1 is... well, I'm not really sure what purpose it serves. It's a qualifier with a (relatively) small prize pool that has a marginal effect on your seeding in another, later qualifier that you were already invited to, but now the seeds are jumbled a little? Did I get that right? I'm not sure.
Point is, Dreamhack has a ton of people playing there, has a substantially higher prize pool.... It actually looked and felt like a tournament whereas the Arena looked from the outside more like a giant intense weekend-long practice session. (NOTE: I mean from a setup point of view. Obviously the players were doing real builds and stuff.) If all you want to do is watch really, really good games devoid of context, then that's probably fine. But if you DO care about context, DH was the most interesting tournament. Did + Show Spoiler + cry when he won MLG Spring Arena? Did anyone really care all that much? Wait, I got the winner wrong? Oh well.
FWIW, the ideal thing would be to get the quality of player from the MLG Arena and have them at a tournament like DH. I feel like MLG generally does a good job of this at their major events.
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On April 23 2012 22:12 jj33 wrote:
I never said atmosphere isn't important, but if you have crap players with atmosphere, its called flash and no substance.
No it's called entertainment and on that you can build something and grow. Even my gf, who normally screams that i need to turn down the sound, came in the room to peak what was going on and watched the final with me.
If Esports wants to grow you need new people and for that you need atmosphere so they are entertained. No one is going to watch a spring arena if they are not a hardcore SC2 fan.
Whats fun about watching 2 players playing a game in a boring office? Not much if you hardly know what they are doing.
Atmosphere is most important thing and there are a million examples in other sports who will confirm that. You think 500 million people will watch a football game between Barcalona and Real Madrid if they were playing on some local pitch with no audience? Hell no, thats boring for 90% of the audience and for the players as well.
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On April 23 2012 22:19 demitap wrote:
Sorry, but sometime you really make me feel like you're sad person, DH Finals was so much more exciting than mlg, mlg was cold, sad and really not better than any weekly cup this time, while DH had this amazing crowd, more players and at least foreigners fought back against koreans( I'm not trying to bash huk, but he got Roflstomed this mlg, humiliated)
And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH.
This is what Tyler is talking about, the quality of play was much better at MLG....if you preferred DH that's great! Just admit to yourself that you're not interested in watching the best games, you're looking for something else.
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DRG vs MKP in a 4:3 in the best match up to watch (ZvT) is undoubtedly better than a 3:1 TvT of any players.
I definitely appreciate crowds and they can make a viewing experience more fun, but the MLG SA1 finals games were definitely better.
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8748 Posts
On April 23 2012 22:04 iNcontroL wrote:
lololol tyler
I'm sorry but you ran track/cross country. The idea of you not appreciating crowds is incredibly underwhelming
lol i'm sorry i didn't like an event you were working at. you of course were awesome and made the outside-of-the-game content much better
if im gonna pretend im talking to a therapist and try to figure myself out.. i think that having experienced so many finals live (so many players don't watch the finals, wtf?) i don't care much for the atmosphere when im watching online. also watching bw for years did not really nurture a love for crowds when watching starcraft. it did nurture a complete focus on the game itself, since i rarely watched live streams, i was always watching vods and i'd skip to the start of the game and close it when the gg came. and of course i couldnt understand the commentators. so that's all there was was the game.
i can appreciate crowds. they're just very low on my priority list when watching online. when watching live, my priorities change and i'd be pretty bummed out if there was a shitty crowd and no music etc.
edit: actually it's wrong of me to say i didnt like DH as i did in the first sentence. i liked it on sunday. just saying that the arena had things i value higher
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On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:19 demitap wrote:
Sorry, but sometime you really make me feel like you're sad person, DH Finals was so much more exciting than mlg, mlg was cold, sad and really not better than any weekly cup this time, while DH had this amazing crowd, more players and at least foreigners fought back against koreans( I'm not trying to bash huk, but he got Roflstomed this mlg, humiliated) And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH.
Keep telling you that.
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On April 23 2012 22:32 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:28 Zorkmid wrote:On April 23 2012 22:19 demitap wrote:
Sorry, but sometime you really make me feel like you're sad person, DH Finals was so much more exciting than mlg, mlg was cold, sad and really not better than any weekly cup this time, while DH had this amazing crowd, more players and at least foreigners fought back against koreans( I'm not trying to bash huk, but he got Roflstomed this mlg, humiliated) And HuK would likely have roflstomped just about anyone at DH. Keep telling you that.
I know you do.
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EPT
