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On February 14 2012 00:52 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 16:59 Snake.69 wrote:
I dont understand why terrans dont use Ravens late game tvz they are SOO good if you have half map turtled and you get like 10+ ravens. 15 broodlords coming? Np, shoot 7-8 seeker missile and BAM they cant dodge them at all, so they all die.
You can also harass lightly defended expands with mass turrets, and they stay up forever and cost no money, in late game if you can trade energy for money its very good. Only thing you need to watch out is to not get chain fungaled on your clump of ravens, wich few emps can take care of. Seriously, a good amount of ravens will completly shut down broodlords attacks, he may be able to turtle with his broods, but he wont be able to be too aggressive or he will lose them.
Mix those ravens with some nuke harass/pushing, emps, and good turtling, and late game terran is still strong as hell vs zerg. I even think that in the next year we will see a raven nerf at some point, once ppl figure out how to use them, similar to the infestors. basically. they die easy. they're slow. they're squishy. and realistically anything you use a raven for probably is going to involve sacrificing the raven for, or at least an acceptance that the raven very well might die (or probably will). Seeker missile? probably going to cost you your raven. PDD, MIGHT cost you your raven. Turret? Might or WILL cost you your raven depending on what you're doing with it. they buffed the speed on seeker missile, and that's awesome...but having an awesome ability on a unit no one wants to use because it's dies to literally anything that can shoot up if your opponent isn't asleep at their keyboard, doesn't change that no one wants to use it. glass cannons just aren't fun, especially when that cannon cannot move to save it's life, and costs you a lot of fucking gas.
Tell that pile of garbage bullshit to Ret when he's playing against DeMuslim.
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On February 14 2012 03:45 Durn wrote:
I really liked CatZ on the show. He's got a really good personality for it, and seems to keep fairly up to date on games and current events. His game knowledge is surprisingly deep given his goofy playstyle and seemingly on-the-fly approach to it.
The best part of the show was when Catz turned into a googie fangirl when he recollects how DRG messaged him saying that he beat nestea using CatzStratz. That was so cuuuuuuuute!!
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Having QXC and Catz was great. QXC should be a permanent addition, just for some terran representation.  Catz is great too - funny, sharp, and solid ability to express his points. Hope they both turn out to be frequent visitors at SotG.
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On February 14 2012 03:46 FreudianTrip wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 00:52 Angel_ wrote:On February 13 2012 16:59 Snake.69 wrote:
I dont understand why terrans dont use Ravens late game tvz they are SOO good if you have half map turtled and you get like 10+ ravens. 15 broodlords coming? Np, shoot 7-8 seeker missile and BAM they cant dodge them at all, so they all die.
You can also harass lightly defended expands with mass turrets, and they stay up forever and cost no money, in late game if you can trade energy for money its very good. Only thing you need to watch out is to not get chain fungaled on your clump of ravens, wich few emps can take care of. Seriously, a good amount of ravens will completly shut down broodlords attacks, he may be able to turtle with his broods, but he wont be able to be too aggressive or he will lose them.
Mix those ravens with some nuke harass/pushing, emps, and good turtling, and late game terran is still strong as hell vs zerg. I even think that in the next year we will see a raven nerf at some point, once ppl figure out how to use them, similar to the infestors. basically. they die easy. they're slow. they're squishy. and realistically anything you use a raven for probably is going to involve sacrificing the raven for, or at least an acceptance that the raven very well might die (or probably will). Seeker missile? probably going to cost you your raven. PDD, MIGHT cost you your raven. Turret? Might or WILL cost you your raven depending on what you're doing with it. they buffed the speed on seeker missile, and that's awesome...but having an awesome ability on a unit no one wants to use because it's dies to literally anything that can shoot up if your opponent isn't asleep at their keyboard, doesn't change that no one wants to use it. glass cannons just aren't fun, especially when that cannon cannot move to save it's life, and costs you a lot of fucking gas. Tell that pile of garbage bullshit to Ret when he's playing against DeMuslim.
I think the reason seeker missile sometimes works out so well is simply because pros aren't quite used to dealing with ravens. Its the same as mech in TvP, it can catch an opponent off guard and get easy wins, but that's because your opponent isn't quite sure how to deal with it. The same applies to ravens right now, but if ravens were standard lategame TvZ I'm sure zergs would quickly learn how to deal with seeker missile and negate them completely.
Just the fact that fungal is 9 range (+AOE) and seeker missile is 6 range practically means your opponent has to fuck up big time for it to work, and that's not something you want to count on. People are already complaining its impossible to feedback ghosts when feedback is 9 range and snipe is 10, and its much worse for seeker missile.
I still think ravens could be excellent units in the lategame TvZ, but its mostly due to PDD helping your vikings win those mass air battles.
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any show without Day9 is an improvement, honestly; i wasn't a huge fan of Catz's commentary but QXC was incredible
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Haha.
"Real time? Fuck that. We got this thing called Blizzard time."
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On February 14 2012 08:15 nvs. wrote:
Haha.
"Real time? Fuck that. We got this thing called Blizzard time."
'Guys, APM, in the future, they'll fuck it up THEY'LL MESS IT UP.'
Made me lol 
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On February 14 2012 00:52 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 16:59 Snake.69 wrote:
I dont understand why terrans dont use Ravens late game tvz they are SOO good if you have half map turtled and you get like 10+ ravens. 15 broodlords coming? Np, shoot 7-8 seeker missile and BAM they cant dodge them at all, so they all die.
You can also harass lightly defended expands with mass turrets, and they stay up forever and cost no money, in late game if you can trade energy for money its very good. Only thing you need to watch out is to not get chain fungaled on your clump of ravens, wich few emps can take care of. Seriously, a good amount of ravens will completly shut down broodlords attacks, he may be able to turtle with his broods, but he wont be able to be too aggressive or he will lose them.
Mix those ravens with some nuke harass/pushing, emps, and good turtling, and late game terran is still strong as hell vs zerg. I even think that in the next year we will see a raven nerf at some point, once ppl figure out how to use them, similar to the infestors. basically. they die easy. they're slow. they're squishy. and realistically anything you use a raven for probably is going to involve sacrificing the raven for, or at least an acceptance that the raven very well might die (or probably will). Seeker missile? probably going to cost you your raven. PDD, MIGHT cost you your raven. Turret? Might or WILL cost you your raven depending on what you're doing with it. they buffed the speed on seeker missile, and that's awesome...but having an awesome ability on a unit no one wants to use because it's dies to literally anything that can shoot up if your opponent isn't asleep at their keyboard, doesn't change that no one wants to use it. glass cannons just aren't fun, especially when that cannon cannot move to save it's life, and costs you a lot of fucking gas.
I see plenty of people in this thread are in their imaginary happy land right? Because a quick jaunt to Liquipediaville says that Ravens have a 2.25 move speed. Because HTs have a 1.875 movespeed and Protoss don't seem to have a problem making gobs of those, even when they have to sacrifice them to get storms off. Or maybe this is the same school of thought that calls hydralisks- those units that are faster than stalkers on creep- are slow? Whatever the reasons are for you not using Ravens, it's not these imaginary problems.
One way to use Ravens that would be brilliant would be to wait for the inevitable tank line charge and fire a HSM at the baneling clump. Either they have to back off, taking additional tank shots, or eat a HSM.
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Ravens are fine but there's not enough data and you need like 3 base to go mass ones without sacrificing every single tech branch.
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Wow! I was abit sad when I saw that JP and Incontrol were the only regular guys on the show but I gotta say this was incredible! Catz and QXC were simly amazing on the show in conjunction with Incontrol! So funny and so insightful! They have a great sense of humor and they really put a great effort into talking about actual things in the game instead of referring to abstract things and very specific elements and stories from BW 
Great discussions and conversations!!!
Loved it !
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On February 14 2012 12:13 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Ravens are fine but there's not enough data and you need like 3 base to go mass ones without sacrificing every single tech branch.
welcome to zerg where this implies to your entire arsnenal
I mean seriously people use to think ghost was trash and blizzard buffed it in hopes to see more use, then someone shows how its done then everyone jumps on the OP bandwagon.
the only unit that is most likely in serious need of attention is the carrier, ravens are a good unit that is OVERSHADOWED by a ton of other GREAT units, give raven to zerg and can promise you it would see more usage
and when I say great mean units such as the marine <.<
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qxc has such an arrogant know it all attitude. He makes excellent points, but the attitutide isnt needed.
QXCian for "I think your an idiot":
Clench your jaw and nod your head side-to-side
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qxc and catz should be perms imhotbh. they, additionaly, coalesce well with geoff. just replace tyler with tlo and we're all good.
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Just got done watching the VOD and episode 62 was great. Seeing Qxc and CatZ on the show was really cool.
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I really like QXC, he should be on more frequent as well as Destiny should be
You guys should definitely go back to recording on Wednesday or Thursday imo!
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Still need to watch Episode 62 since I missed it 
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On February 14 2012 12:13 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Ravens are fine but there's not enough data and you need like 3 base to go mass ones without sacrificing every single tech branch.
Seeker missile is like the most underestimated ability ever.
I mean.. If you shoot 2 of them (with 2 ravens) your enemy has either to RUN or to die horrible.
If he runs, you win.
If he doesn't, you win.
How this is not used more, is beyond me ^^.
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On February 14 2012 18:55 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 12:13 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Ravens are fine but there's not enough data and you need like 3 base to go mass ones without sacrificing every single tech branch. Seeker missile is like the most underestimated ability ever. I mean.. If you shoot 2 of them (with 2 ravens) your enemy has either to RUN or to die horrible. If he runs, you win. If he doesn't, you win. How this is not used more, is beyond me ^^.
How, exactly, do you win if he runs? You just wasted energy that will take like 90 seconds to generate and your investment made in the ravens will be (for that time) worthless.
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On February 14 2012 19:00 Confuzzled wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 18:55 Velr wrote:On February 14 2012 12:13 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Ravens are fine but there's not enough data and you need like 3 base to go mass ones without sacrificing every single tech branch. Seeker missile is like the most underestimated ability ever. I mean.. If you shoot 2 of them (with 2 ravens) your enemy has either to RUN or to die horrible. If he runs, you win. If he doesn't, you win. How this is not used more, is beyond me ^^. How, exactly, do you win if he runs? You just wasted energy that will take like 90 seconds to generate and your investment made in the ravens will be (for that time) worthless.
you get position and perhaps time to set up tanks or snipe investors, snipe HTs or EMP sentries. But you mostly gain position. The thing is however that you can gain the same advantage with a nuke, soo I'm not that hyped for HSM, not saying it is bad, but I don't think it is extremely good either.
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On February 14 2012 13:58 g. wrote:
qxc has such an arrogant know it all attitude. He makes excellent points, but the attitutide isnt needed.
QXCian for "I think your an idiot":
Clench your jaw and nod your head side-to-side
So you prefer what iNcontroL does, facepalming, rolling his eyes, trolling or just painting Warhammer figures because he's not interested? Yes, I dislike what qxc does but it's his way of saying "I don't agree" while not interrupting the speaker. It's funny because qxc is as much a s douche as iNcontroL, Idra, Naniwa, Destiny or Stephano can be but if you like something else about the person (iNcontroL's accents and jokes, Idra's bias, Stephano's frankness) you can let it pass. It's also an issue of accomplishments so I guess I can understand the difference in popularity... To each his own, I suppose, although you'd have to dislike so many people with such attitude .
PS: Yes, qxc's army is here, you shall not taint his holy presence .D
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EPT
