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On January 13 2012 13:58 Chriscras wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 13:57 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 13 2012 13:53 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 13:48 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 13 2012 13:42 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 13:36 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 13 2012 13:27 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 13:22 corpuscle wrote:
Geoff said that there were only three possible times for them to work with, so I (and, presumably, most other people) were operating under the assumption that they couldn't really do 8 PM. The Daily starts at 10:30 EST, and Sean's said many times that he needs time to prepare for it; starting the show two and a half hours before the Daily either means Sean has to leave early every time AND he won't have any sort of downtime between SotG/daily prep/actually doing the daily, which really sucks for him.
Okay well there you go, SotG now runs right into the Daily, which I was worrying about in my posts in between responding to the personal attacks. Just the fact the Daily starts at 10:30pm and not 4pm shows that Sean has already taken the best times into consideration and placed the Daily in the optimal primetime slot to maximize viewership on a daily basis. Additionally, now that SotG is not going to be able run past 2 hours because it preempts the Daily will alone effect the content and pacing of the show  that doesn't even make sense there's at least three hour before daily of course it wont interfere with it day9's on the show come on....... think man Sean needs prep-time and sometimes he's working on it until the last minute. Jury is still out on whether hosting SotG before the Daily will have an effect on Sean's participation in the show and the pacing of the show in general... they obviously have that worked out our else they wouldnt have set it at that time im sorry if i sound like a dick but think man plz use your head You're forgiven. Maybe stop acting like a dick though? I don't know how accurately one can predict Day9's schedule past the next month or so. then stop trying to predict it and saying it wont work with sotg... I'm not trying to predict it -- I am saying that maybe they don't have it as worked out as you think.
of course they do there professionals all the hosts obviously got together and discussed what time works for all of them man you really know how to get under someones skin Ive never gotten ticked off like this on a forum in years congrats
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On January 13 2012 13:28 coolcor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 04:14 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On January 13 2012 03:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why does SOTG need a sponsor for though? To do business. What we do does business in two ways: sponsors and subscriptions. We're gonna try to do both. But like JP said, we're not taking anything away. Anything we do for sponsors or for subscriptions would be in addition to everything we've already been doing. When done right, business benefits everyone. At the very least, it ought to benefit some and not hurt anyone else. For example, ideally if we have a sponsor then these benefits would come about: the sponsor has increased sales, the hosts earn money for their work, the viewers benefit from the increased value of incentivized hosts (higher quality work and higher chance that it doesn't stop). The anti-business sentiments in the esports community can be quite frustrating. Business doesn't have to screw anyone. Commerce isn't evil. Money can change hands in exchange for services and everyone can be happier for it. Everyone does it all the time but it seems that a lot of people in the community have an irrational exception to that when it comes to esports. Nothing going on is really stable. SOTG and omg.tv are not stable. MLG, IPL, NASL and GomTV are not stable. No player's career is stable. The only way things really could stabilize is if the community is full of people willing to spend money. Spend money on sponsors' products or (preferably) spend money directly on esports products (stream subscriptions, team apparel, live event tickets, etc). If people don't spend money, there won't be as much good quality content as there could be and things will not last. SC2 has a unique opportunity because its community is generally older and thus is more employed and has more money to spend. An anti-business sentiment is not what we need. If we don't do good business, we won't last. And if we can't ever attempt to do any business because the community moans and groans, then we'll never have a shot at doing good business. I think everyone ought to honestly reflect on how they spend their money and how much they value the things they buy. For those of you who have been an SC2 fan for a year, can you think about how much money you've spent on entertainment/luxury in the past year and how much of that went into the SC2 scene? Can you then see if that percentage is a fair reflection of how much entertainment you get out of SC2? I think if everyone in the community had an accurate reflection there, then SC2 would be soaring and we wouldn't have a worry in the world about this lasting for a long time and improving the whole way. P.S. I know this doesn't apply to everyone. I know there is a very large group of people that loves everything that players/commentators/leagues/etc do and they want to support us fairly. You are the reason we have hope! Hey I don't mind you guys getting sponsors and optional subscriptions go ahead and do that but I wanted to ask some questions. Why is this post so negative on the current stability of sc2 esports are all the tournaments losing money and soon to go out of business if things don't get much better? Why is people directly spending lots more money on esports the only hope to make things stable? Is there no hope for increased viewership resulting in more money from sponsors commercials and direct payments naturally increasing with viewership? Didn't viewership increase and make records in 2011? Even if you get people to buy enough stuff to support all the tournaments don't you still run the risk of them losing interest and stop buying stuff making sc2 forever not stable like most entertainment or businesses that have not been proven to last for decades already? Even broodwar in korea is falling after 10 years and who knows if an sc2 switch can save the industry.
Basically what I get from Tylers post is "hurry up and give us money before this all comes crumbling down"
The way he worded most of that sure seems like he knows something we don't. Maybe the scene isn't as strong as everyone thinks it is.
I can see why he has focused so much attention to LoL over these last few months. Thats where the money is going to be in the future. regardless of how shitty a game it is
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On January 13 2012 14:05 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 13:28 coolcor wrote:On January 13 2012 04:14 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On January 13 2012 03:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why does SOTG need a sponsor for though? To do business. What we do does business in two ways: sponsors and subscriptions. We're gonna try to do both. But like JP said, we're not taking anything away. Anything we do for sponsors or for subscriptions would be in addition to everything we've already been doing. When done right, business benefits everyone. At the very least, it ought to benefit some and not hurt anyone else. For example, ideally if we have a sponsor then these benefits would come about: the sponsor has increased sales, the hosts earn money for their work, the viewers benefit from the increased value of incentivized hosts (higher quality work and higher chance that it doesn't stop). The anti-business sentiments in the esports community can be quite frustrating. Business doesn't have to screw anyone. Commerce isn't evil. Money can change hands in exchange for services and everyone can be happier for it. Everyone does it all the time but it seems that a lot of people in the community have an irrational exception to that when it comes to esports. Nothing going on is really stable. SOTG and omg.tv are not stable. MLG, IPL, NASL and GomTV are not stable. No player's career is stable. The only way things really could stabilize is if the community is full of people willing to spend money. Spend money on sponsors' products or (preferably) spend money directly on esports products (stream subscriptions, team apparel, live event tickets, etc). If people don't spend money, there won't be as much good quality content as there could be and things will not last. SC2 has a unique opportunity because its community is generally older and thus is more employed and has more money to spend. An anti-business sentiment is not what we need. If we don't do good business, we won't last. And if we can't ever attempt to do any business because the community moans and groans, then we'll never have a shot at doing good business. I think everyone ought to honestly reflect on how they spend their money and how much they value the things they buy. For those of you who have been an SC2 fan for a year, can you think about how much money you've spent on entertainment/luxury in the past year and how much of that went into the SC2 scene? Can you then see if that percentage is a fair reflection of how much entertainment you get out of SC2? I think if everyone in the community had an accurate reflection there, then SC2 would be soaring and we wouldn't have a worry in the world about this lasting for a long time and improving the whole way. P.S. I know this doesn't apply to everyone. I know there is a very large group of people that loves everything that players/commentators/leagues/etc do and they want to support us fairly. You are the reason we have hope! Hey I don't mind you guys getting sponsors and optional subscriptions go ahead and do that but I wanted to ask some questions. Why is this post so negative on the current stability of sc2 esports are all the tournaments losing money and soon to go out of business if things don't get much better? Why is people directly spending lots more money on esports the only hope to make things stable? Is there no hope for increased viewership resulting in more money from sponsors commercials and direct payments naturally increasing with viewership? Didn't viewership increase and make records in 2011? Even if you get people to buy enough stuff to support all the tournaments don't you still run the risk of them losing interest and stop buying stuff making sc2 forever not stable like most entertainment or businesses that have not been proven to last for decades already? Even broodwar in korea is falling after 10 years and who knows if an sc2 switch can save the industry. I can see why he has focused so much attention to LoL over these last few months. Thats where the money is going to be in the future. regardless of how shitty a game it is
Based on what, LoL's popularity? WoW was the most popular game for years and years (maybe it still is) but the prize pool isn't close to SC2.
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On January 13 2012 14:09 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 14:05 magnaflow wrote:On January 13 2012 13:28 coolcor wrote:On January 13 2012 04:14 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On January 13 2012 03:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why does SOTG need a sponsor for though? To do business. What we do does business in two ways: sponsors and subscriptions. We're gonna try to do both. But like JP said, we're not taking anything away. Anything we do for sponsors or for subscriptions would be in addition to everything we've already been doing. When done right, business benefits everyone. At the very least, it ought to benefit some and not hurt anyone else. For example, ideally if we have a sponsor then these benefits would come about: the sponsor has increased sales, the hosts earn money for their work, the viewers benefit from the increased value of incentivized hosts (higher quality work and higher chance that it doesn't stop). The anti-business sentiments in the esports community can be quite frustrating. Business doesn't have to screw anyone. Commerce isn't evil. Money can change hands in exchange for services and everyone can be happier for it. Everyone does it all the time but it seems that a lot of people in the community have an irrational exception to that when it comes to esports. Nothing going on is really stable. SOTG and omg.tv are not stable. MLG, IPL, NASL and GomTV are not stable. No player's career is stable. The only way things really could stabilize is if the community is full of people willing to spend money. Spend money on sponsors' products or (preferably) spend money directly on esports products (stream subscriptions, team apparel, live event tickets, etc). If people don't spend money, there won't be as much good quality content as there could be and things will not last. SC2 has a unique opportunity because its community is generally older and thus is more employed and has more money to spend. An anti-business sentiment is not what we need. If we don't do good business, we won't last. And if we can't ever attempt to do any business because the community moans and groans, then we'll never have a shot at doing good business. I think everyone ought to honestly reflect on how they spend their money and how much they value the things they buy. For those of you who have been an SC2 fan for a year, can you think about how much money you've spent on entertainment/luxury in the past year and how much of that went into the SC2 scene? Can you then see if that percentage is a fair reflection of how much entertainment you get out of SC2? I think if everyone in the community had an accurate reflection there, then SC2 would be soaring and we wouldn't have a worry in the world about this lasting for a long time and improving the whole way. P.S. I know this doesn't apply to everyone. I know there is a very large group of people that loves everything that players/commentators/leagues/etc do and they want to support us fairly. You are the reason we have hope! Hey I don't mind you guys getting sponsors and optional subscriptions go ahead and do that but I wanted to ask some questions. Why is this post so negative on the current stability of sc2 esports are all the tournaments losing money and soon to go out of business if things don't get much better? Why is people directly spending lots more money on esports the only hope to make things stable? Is there no hope for increased viewership resulting in more money from sponsors commercials and direct payments naturally increasing with viewership? Didn't viewership increase and make records in 2011? Even if you get people to buy enough stuff to support all the tournaments don't you still run the risk of them losing interest and stop buying stuff making sc2 forever not stable like most entertainment or businesses that have not been proven to last for decades already? Even broodwar in korea is falling after 10 years and who knows if an sc2 switch can save the industry. I can see why he has focused so much attention to LoL over these last few months. Thats where the money is going to be in the future. regardless of how shitty a game it is Based on what, LoL's popularity? WoW was the most popular game for years and years (maybe it still is) but the prize pool isn't close to SC2.
WoW does not have a competetive scene, and it's mostly housewives that play it now.
OGN has picked up LoL, it is definetley a force to be reckoned with. And yes it is because of it's popularity, millions of people are playing that game. 1 streamer has close too or more viewers then all of the combined SC2 streams on a daily basis, where do you think the sponsors are going to invest?
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well i don't know how the fuck this turned into this discussion, there is a giant different between wow and lol, 95% of wow players = PvE'rs, blizzard didnt give 2 fucks about the 5% of pvp'ers that had the competative scene. LoL = 100% pvp'ers because thats how the damn game is played. so yes, the numbers DO mean something even though the whole argument is fucking irrelevant to SoTG looking for sponsors.
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On January 13 2012 14:05 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 13:28 coolcor wrote:On January 13 2012 04:14 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On January 13 2012 03:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why does SOTG need a sponsor for though? To do business. What we do does business in two ways: sponsors and subscriptions. We're gonna try to do both. But like JP said, we're not taking anything away. Anything we do for sponsors or for subscriptions would be in addition to everything we've already been doing. When done right, business benefits everyone. At the very least, it ought to benefit some and not hurt anyone else. For example, ideally if we have a sponsor then these benefits would come about: the sponsor has increased sales, the hosts earn money for their work, the viewers benefit from the increased value of incentivized hosts (higher quality work and higher chance that it doesn't stop). The anti-business sentiments in the esports community can be quite frustrating. Business doesn't have to screw anyone. Commerce isn't evil. Money can change hands in exchange for services and everyone can be happier for it. Everyone does it all the time but it seems that a lot of people in the community have an irrational exception to that when it comes to esports. Nothing going on is really stable. SOTG and omg.tv are not stable. MLG, IPL, NASL and GomTV are not stable. No player's career is stable. The only way things really could stabilize is if the community is full of people willing to spend money. Spend money on sponsors' products or (preferably) spend money directly on esports products (stream subscriptions, team apparel, live event tickets, etc). If people don't spend money, there won't be as much good quality content as there could be and things will not last. SC2 has a unique opportunity because its community is generally older and thus is more employed and has more money to spend. An anti-business sentiment is not what we need. If we don't do good business, we won't last. And if we can't ever attempt to do any business because the community moans and groans, then we'll never have a shot at doing good business. I think everyone ought to honestly reflect on how they spend their money and how much they value the things they buy. For those of you who have been an SC2 fan for a year, can you think about how much money you've spent on entertainment/luxury in the past year and how much of that went into the SC2 scene? Can you then see if that percentage is a fair reflection of how much entertainment you get out of SC2? I think if everyone in the community had an accurate reflection there, then SC2 would be soaring and we wouldn't have a worry in the world about this lasting for a long time and improving the whole way. P.S. I know this doesn't apply to everyone. I know there is a very large group of people that loves everything that players/commentators/leagues/etc do and they want to support us fairly. You are the reason we have hope! Hey I don't mind you guys getting sponsors and optional subscriptions go ahead and do that but I wanted to ask some questions. Why is this post so negative on the current stability of sc2 esports are all the tournaments losing money and soon to go out of business if things don't get much better? Why is people directly spending lots more money on esports the only hope to make things stable? Is there no hope for increased viewership resulting in more money from sponsors commercials and direct payments naturally increasing with viewership? Didn't viewership increase and make records in 2011? Even if you get people to buy enough stuff to support all the tournaments don't you still run the risk of them losing interest and stop buying stuff making sc2 forever not stable like most entertainment or businesses that have not been proven to last for decades already? Even broodwar in korea is falling after 10 years and who knows if an sc2 switch can save the industry. Basically what I get from Tylers post is "hurry up and give us money before this all comes crumbling down" The way he worded most of that sure seems like he knows something we don't. Maybe the scene isn't as strong as everyone thinks it is. I can see why he has focused so much attention to LoL over these last few months. Thats where the money is going to be in the future. regardless of how shitty a game it is
I think all Tyler is saying is that SC2 is not the NBA, it needs a good business model, sponsors, and money coming into it to remain viable. It's not that things are going downhill, it's that it needs continued financial support to not go downhill, and hopefully go uphill.
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I always just assumed Tyler is independently wealthy/trustfund/sugarbaby, or maybe I'm way off and it's welfare/disability. I mean he certainly doesn't play SC2 like his livelihood depends on it, and as far as I know (which isn't a lot) he hasn't dipped into the coaching scheme, so when he talks about making money I can't help but be curious where he's coming from. Unless he's just martyring for "e-sports" because it's cool and gives you street cred.
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On January 13 2012 15:18 fuzzylogic44 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 14:05 magnaflow wrote:On January 13 2012 13:28 coolcor wrote:On January 13 2012 04:14 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On January 13 2012 03:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why does SOTG need a sponsor for though? To do business. What we do does business in two ways: sponsors and subscriptions. We're gonna try to do both. But like JP said, we're not taking anything away. Anything we do for sponsors or for subscriptions would be in addition to everything we've already been doing. When done right, business benefits everyone. At the very least, it ought to benefit some and not hurt anyone else. For example, ideally if we have a sponsor then these benefits would come about: the sponsor has increased sales, the hosts earn money for their work, the viewers benefit from the increased value of incentivized hosts (higher quality work and higher chance that it doesn't stop). The anti-business sentiments in the esports community can be quite frustrating. Business doesn't have to screw anyone. Commerce isn't evil. Money can change hands in exchange for services and everyone can be happier for it. Everyone does it all the time but it seems that a lot of people in the community have an irrational exception to that when it comes to esports. Nothing going on is really stable. SOTG and omg.tv are not stable. MLG, IPL, NASL and GomTV are not stable. No player's career is stable. The only way things really could stabilize is if the community is full of people willing to spend money. Spend money on sponsors' products or (preferably) spend money directly on esports products (stream subscriptions, team apparel, live event tickets, etc). If people don't spend money, there won't be as much good quality content as there could be and things will not last. SC2 has a unique opportunity because its community is generally older and thus is more employed and has more money to spend. An anti-business sentiment is not what we need. If we don't do good business, we won't last. And if we can't ever attempt to do any business because the community moans and groans, then we'll never have a shot at doing good business. I think everyone ought to honestly reflect on how they spend their money and how much they value the things they buy. For those of you who have been an SC2 fan for a year, can you think about how much money you've spent on entertainment/luxury in the past year and how much of that went into the SC2 scene? Can you then see if that percentage is a fair reflection of how much entertainment you get out of SC2? I think if everyone in the community had an accurate reflection there, then SC2 would be soaring and we wouldn't have a worry in the world about this lasting for a long time and improving the whole way. P.S. I know this doesn't apply to everyone. I know there is a very large group of people that loves everything that players/commentators/leagues/etc do and they want to support us fairly. You are the reason we have hope! Hey I don't mind you guys getting sponsors and optional subscriptions go ahead and do that but I wanted to ask some questions. Why is this post so negative on the current stability of sc2 esports are all the tournaments losing money and soon to go out of business if things don't get much better? Why is people directly spending lots more money on esports the only hope to make things stable? Is there no hope for increased viewership resulting in more money from sponsors commercials and direct payments naturally increasing with viewership? Didn't viewership increase and make records in 2011? Even if you get people to buy enough stuff to support all the tournaments don't you still run the risk of them losing interest and stop buying stuff making sc2 forever not stable like most entertainment or businesses that have not been proven to last for decades already? Even broodwar in korea is falling after 10 years and who knows if an sc2 switch can save the industry. Basically what I get from Tylers post is "hurry up and give us money before this all comes crumbling down" The way he worded most of that sure seems like he knows something we don't. Maybe the scene isn't as strong as everyone thinks it is. I can see why he has focused so much attention to LoL over these last few months. Thats where the money is going to be in the future. regardless of how shitty a game it is I think all Tyler is saying is that SC2 is not the NBA, it needs a good business model, sponsors, and money coming into it to remain viable. It's not that things are going downhill, it's that it needs continued financial support to not go downhill, and hopefully go uphill.
But the question is do tournaments have that good business model or not. If and how sotg makes money does not matter at all when you are talking about the stability of the entire scene like Tyler was. The tournaments need to be stable or everything else is lost
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what the fuck the comments and arguments in this thread are ridiculous. is this where the idiots come to hang out? i best be on my way
User was temp banned for this post.
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But the question is do tournaments have that good business model or not. If and how sotg makes money does not matter at all when you are talking about the stability of the entire scene like Tyler was. The tournaments need to be stable or everything else is lost
It doesn't matter if they have a good business model or not if everyone who's interested in SC2 just wants to sit on their ass and enjoy everything for free, and gets all indignant and pissy when someone who's providing content wants some sort of compensation. I don't want to put words in Tyler's mouth, but I think what he was getting at is that we're a pretty stingy community as a whole, and ESPORTS can't keep going forever if the fans don't put any money back into it.
When sponsors look at whether or not they want to throw down money for SC2, they have to look at whether people are actually willing to give them some sort of ROI, and eventually they'll stop throwing money at tournaments if it doesn't actually get them anything. ESPORTS is still a highly volatile market right now, and it would go a long way for the long-term stability of the industry if the community at large wasn't so aggressively tight-fisted.
Honestly, it's fucking stupid how much you see people bitching about tournaments not having a big enough prize pool and then at the same time getting angry that organizations/shows/personalities want their audiences to give them some money... it has to come from somewhere. You might think that SotG being funded or not has nothing to do with the tournament scene, but it actually does; companies will definitely notice if tons of people are willing to voluntarily throw money at a show about SC2, and they'll also notice if people get pissed at the mere suggestion of being asked to spend.
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Charging money for SotG is absurd. It's a complete free for all of a discussion after JP brings up a topic. Yes the hosts do take time out to get drunk and bullshit.
I don't know what is going on behind the scenes of SotG but I understand that Wheat has been committing his life streaming shows before the genesis of Starcraft 2 and continues to do so unto the SC2 community never asking for a dollar 'from the community'. That isn't to say that Wheat isn't paid but it doesn't come out of the viewers pockets.
The show started out altruistically, I believe that it should remain that way.
If SotG puts a price tag on their show I'll be the first to disassociate.
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On January 13 2012 16:48 inamorato wrote:
Charging money for SotG is absurd. It's a complete free for all of a discussion after JP brings up a topic. Yes the hosts do take time out to get drunk and bullshit.
I don't know what is going on behind the scenes of SotG but I understand that Wheat has been committing his life streaming shows before the genesis of Starcraft 2 and continues to do so unto the SC2 community never asking for a dollar 'from the community'. That isn't to say that Wheat isn't paid but it doesn't come out of the viewers pockets.
The show started out altruistically, I believe that it should remain that way.
If SotG puts a price tag on their show I'll be the first to disassociate.
JP clearly said it's a voluntary subscription. You don't have to pay anything if you don't want to. Charging money implies that you HAVE to pay, voluntary means it's a donation. If some of us want to give JP and the guys some money, what's wrong with that? It doesn't hurt you, and it helps them.
edit: also WHEAT is working for twitch.tv and is sponsored by Steelseries, Gunnar, Intel, Bigfoot, and probably some other companies that I forgot about, and since everyone bitches about corporate sponsors and commercials, if JP had gone that route, you would probably bitching because COMMERCIALS CORPORATE INFLUENCE ARRGAHGHAG
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On January 13 2012 16:48 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +But the question is do tournaments have that good business model or not. If and how sotg makes money does not matter at all when you are talking about the stability of the entire scene like Tyler was. The tournaments need to be stable or everything else is lost It doesn't matter if they have a good business model or not if everyone who's interested in SC2 just wants to sit on their ass and enjoy everything for free, and gets all indignant and pissy when someone who's providing content wants some sort of compensation. I don't want to put words in Tyler's mouth, but I think what he was getting at is that we're a pretty stingy community as a whole, and ESPORTS can't keep going forever if the fans don't put any money back into it. When sponsors look at whether or not they want to throw down money for SC2, they have to look at whether people are actually willing to give them some sort of ROI, and eventually they'll stop throwing money at tournaments if it doesn't actually get them anything. ESPORTS is still a highly volatile market right now, and it would go a long way for the long-term stability of the industry if the community at large wasn't so aggressively tight-fisted. Honestly, it's fucking stupid how much you see people bitching about tournaments not having a big enough prize pool and then at the same time getting angry that organizations/shows/personalities want their audiences to give them some money... it has to come from somewhere. You might think that SotG being funded or not has nothing to do with the tournament scene, but it actually does; companies will definitely notice if tons of people are willing to voluntarily throw money at a show about SC2, and they'll also notice if people get pissed at the mere suggestion of being asked to spend.
what a stingy community
There is already plenty of compensation for people in sc2. Documentaries get funded, t-shirts get bought, coaches are hired, hd, spectator and vod subscriptions to tournaments are bought, tournaments are donated to (shoutcraft), plane tickets are bought (marine king), scam victims are compensated, optional subscription is bought for the privilege to play with day9 in a monobattle, I'm sure the sotg subscription will get about the same % of viewers as the day9 subscription it sounds similar with both being extra stuff. If the daily is stable I bet sotg will also get enough compensation for their expenses and time nothing to worry about there.
Plus all the ad revenue and sponsorship compensation enough to support an entire living like destiny's stream or husky's youtube . Advertising and sponsorship works why would this particular group of young males (usually valued by advertisers) be particularly immune to it. And we already got the thank them in twitter and surveys thing going that sponsors really like the community is helping out there to. I'm sure the sponsors also get feedback on the internet where some people complain about whatever stuff they do it's the internet people being negative on teamliquid won't change anything.
But the point is if the number of sales is not enough to support the tournaments the scene needs. (and I can understand it might not be tournaments are expensive) If that is true they need a better business plan that is not tell the community to stop being cheap and buy even more stuff to stabilize esports because they have already been asked to buy stuff to support esports so nothing will change. They need to offer a service good enough lots of people pay for it because they want it not because they were told to support esports and to also attract lots more viewers so there is more people buying stuff and watching commercials that is the only way to grow.
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This is just me, but the max I could go for a subscription is $12 a year for say, 40 shows in a year.
I really love SOTG but I'm just being honest. I enjoy SOTG as light, free entertainment, and not necessarily because it's about SC2. There's a lot of great podcasts in other fields of interest that are available for free.
When you do the math, if you can get 5000 subscribers at $12 a pop, that would give you $60,000. $60,000 divided between five people is a modest, but not inconsequential amount for doing something you enjoy on the side only one night a week. I'm not sure how realistic 5000 subscribers is, of course, just thinking aloud.
Another way to generate revenue is to tie products with subscriptions, i.e. if you buy a t-shirt from Handsome Nerd, you get a subscription with it. That would greatly improved the perceived value of paying for something everyone is used to getting for free.
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seriously there are too many retarded comments in the last few pages TT
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Defacer gives me a good idea. I'm not sure how much you'd need to charge, but I can't see anybody objecting to a $29.99 SotG T-Shirt that includes a subscription! You can parade your nerdiness/manliness in your awesome (and somewhat exclusive) shirt and you guys get a subscription! I can't see a t-shirt costing more than $8-10 which would leave $20 a pop for you guys. I'd buy a $30 t-shirt if it included a year-long subscription!
But would I subscribe to a show for $20...probably not - unless you get TwitchTV to release an app for my Samsung SmartTV that makes their videos work better, I'd pay $20 a year just for that app!
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On January 13 2012 14:05 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 13:28 coolcor wrote:On January 13 2012 04:14 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On January 13 2012 03:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why does SOTG need a sponsor for though? To do business. What we do does business in two ways: sponsors and subscriptions. We're gonna try to do both. But like JP said, we're not taking anything away. Anything we do for sponsors or for subscriptions would be in addition to everything we've already been doing. When done right, business benefits everyone. At the very least, it ought to benefit some and not hurt anyone else. For example, ideally if we have a sponsor then these benefits would come about: the sponsor has increased sales, the hosts earn money for their work, the viewers benefit from the increased value of incentivized hosts (higher quality work and higher chance that it doesn't stop). The anti-business sentiments in the esports community can be quite frustrating. Business doesn't have to screw anyone. Commerce isn't evil. Money can change hands in exchange for services and everyone can be happier for it. Everyone does it all the time but it seems that a lot of people in the community have an irrational exception to that when it comes to esports. Nothing going on is really stable. SOTG and omg.tv are not stable. MLG, IPL, NASL and GomTV are not stable. No player's career is stable. The only way things really could stabilize is if the community is full of people willing to spend money. Spend money on sponsors' products or (preferably) spend money directly on esports products (stream subscriptions, team apparel, live event tickets, etc). If people don't spend money, there won't be as much good quality content as there could be and things will not last. SC2 has a unique opportunity because its community is generally older and thus is more employed and has more money to spend. An anti-business sentiment is not what we need. If we don't do good business, we won't last. And if we can't ever attempt to do any business because the community moans and groans, then we'll never have a shot at doing good business. I think everyone ought to honestly reflect on how they spend their money and how much they value the things they buy. For those of you who have been an SC2 fan for a year, can you think about how much money you've spent on entertainment/luxury in the past year and how much of that went into the SC2 scene? Can you then see if that percentage is a fair reflection of how much entertainment you get out of SC2? I think if everyone in the community had an accurate reflection there, then SC2 would be soaring and we wouldn't have a worry in the world about this lasting for a long time and improving the whole way. P.S. I know this doesn't apply to everyone. I know there is a very large group of people that loves everything that players/commentators/leagues/etc do and they want to support us fairly. You are the reason we have hope! Hey I don't mind you guys getting sponsors and optional subscriptions go ahead and do that but I wanted to ask some questions. Why is this post so negative on the current stability of sc2 esports are all the tournaments losing money and soon to go out of business if things don't get much better? Why is people directly spending lots more money on esports the only hope to make things stable? Is there no hope for increased viewership resulting in more money from sponsors commercials and direct payments naturally increasing with viewership? Didn't viewership increase and make records in 2011? Even if you get people to buy enough stuff to support all the tournaments don't you still run the risk of them losing interest and stop buying stuff making sc2 forever not stable like most entertainment or businesses that have not been proven to last for decades already? Even broodwar in korea is falling after 10 years and who knows if an sc2 switch can save the industry. Basically what I get from Tylers post is "hurry up and give us money before this all comes crumbling down" The way he worded most of that sure seems like he knows something we don't. Maybe the scene isn't as strong as everyone thinks it is. I can see why he has focused so much attention to LoL over these last few months. Thats where the money is going to be in the future. regardless of how shitty a game it is
You're reading waaay too much into Tyler's post man.
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On January 13 2012 18:00 coolcor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 16:48 corpuscle wrote:But the question is do tournaments have that good business model or not. If and how sotg makes money does not matter at all when you are talking about the stability of the entire scene like Tyler was. The tournaments need to be stable or everything else is lost It doesn't matter if they have a good business model or not if everyone who's interested in SC2 just wants to sit on their ass and enjoy everything for free, and gets all indignant and pissy when someone who's providing content wants some sort of compensation. I don't want to put words in Tyler's mouth, but I think what he was getting at is that we're a pretty stingy community as a whole, and ESPORTS can't keep going forever if the fans don't put any money back into it. When sponsors look at whether or not they want to throw down money for SC2, they have to look at whether people are actually willing to give them some sort of ROI, and eventually they'll stop throwing money at tournaments if it doesn't actually get them anything. ESPORTS is still a highly volatile market right now, and it would go a long way for the long-term stability of the industry if the community at large wasn't so aggressively tight-fisted. Honestly, it's fucking stupid how much you see people bitching about tournaments not having a big enough prize pool and then at the same time getting angry that organizations/shows/personalities want their audiences to give them some money... it has to come from somewhere. You might think that SotG being funded or not has nothing to do with the tournament scene, but it actually does; companies will definitely notice if tons of people are willing to voluntarily throw money at a show about SC2, and they'll also notice if people get pissed at the mere suggestion of being asked to spend. what a stingy community
Very unfortunately . All the winging I hear about how $10 is so much money is just sad. I don't care if you're in college, $10 is less than an hour of work
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SotG gained one more live viewer in me at least!
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EPT
