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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1988

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 2731 Next
UnholyRai
Profile Joined September 2010
720 Posts
January 13 2012 12:28 GMT
#39741
Thank you very much for the brit friendly time. well played.
Gogo Grubby.
FreudianTrip
Profile Joined July 2011
Switzerland1983 Posts
January 13 2012 13:36 GMT
#39742
If you got given money would you use it to pay mods to make your chat not an eternal hellhole? Because if not a shiny button ain't doing shit for me considering I'd rather Twitch expanded the 'Hide Chat' option to 'Force everyone in chat to take cyanide pills'

If you get given money would you do more than play video-gamz with 4 out of 4000 people once a week?

If you got given money would you improve the show in anyway whatsoever? Would you up the quality of production? Would you start using a better system than, "Gee Willikers, I hope Skype doesn't suck balls this week!" however much I love to pretend I enjoy listening to Artosis go Optimus Prime on us and watching JP playing with overlays for 15 minutes at a time, I don't.

Would you being given money make the show more professional? Because if you're being given money to do this that's what it has to be. No more claiming 'Oh I didn't even read it let's move along" I didn't even care about the PPSL incident but in the future you won't be able to hide behind, "I'm not calling these people out because I know them" as you will be pretty much literally the only podcasters being paid by the viewers in the entire world outside the Ricky Gervais podcasts. And 5 dollars a month is slightly more than they were asking for for podcasts from two international award winning writers.

Oh and Smodcast (although that's paid by people attending live events) but once again, award winning Hollywood writer and friends versus mid level starcraft pros and a couple of casters.

I'm not trying to be harsh in any of this, just that the jump from paying nothing as I do with the huge range of podcasts I listen to, from amateur productions with a guy speaking into a mic in his bedroom about French Hip-Hop to actual shows like RadioLab or This American Life which has them travelling the country for an interesting story and is incredibly produced and mixed to paying 5 bucks a month is an absolutely HUGE jump and needs to be justly rewarded.

I know this is voluntary. I'm just pointing out what I'd look for if a subscription service were to be announced.
ChriS-X
Profile Joined June 2011
Malaysia1374 Posts
January 13 2012 13:58 GMT
#39743
8am for me >< dont think i'll be watching live anytime soon.....
EvOr
Profile Joined July 2011
France48 Posts
January 13 2012 14:08 GMT
#39744
@FreudianTrip: The skype part si so uncalled for, there is no other affordable options.

As I said 20+ pages earlier when JP first asked, I'd much prefer a donation/merchandising way to give you money than a subscriber thing. I'm willing to give money or buy t-shirt or cups, but I don't want to subscribe to SoTG if you don't do something _really_ interesting for the subscribers.

I don't even know what you can do now than you guys don't do already, that's why I think a subscriber thing is not very interesting.

Call me an hypocrite or just a dumb guy, but if I subscribe to twitch.tv/sotg I want to get rewarded with premium content or I will be a sad consumer , on the other hand I will not mind to donate money or to just buy mechandising stuff (and participate in the crashing of thehandsomenerd).

Now, if you come to the topic and explain that's a way to support both twich and sotg I might reconsider but from what I understand it's not the case.

FreudianTrip
Profile Joined July 2011
Switzerland1983 Posts
January 13 2012 15:54 GMT
#39745
On January 13 2012 23:08 EvOr wrote:
@FreudianTrip: The skype part si so uncalled for, there is no other affordable options


Probably, I'm always cranky when I wake up. Apologies.
ajdoj14
Profile Joined July 2011
United States32 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 16:26:28
January 13 2012 16:25 GMT
#39746
It is going to be amazing not having to wait up until 10:30 for it just to begin. Will make waking up early for work on Fridays much less miserable. I wouldn't be against it around 8 central, that would make it 6 west coast and 9 for the east coast which would be significantly better for the eastern and central time zones. Either way, love my SOTG and am willing to subscribe to the pillars. I have extra money and legitimately look forward to it every Thursday, so it only makes sense to support something I thoroughly enjoy. Looking forward to the return gentleman
gregnog
Profile Joined December 2010
United States289 Posts
January 13 2012 16:41 GMT
#39747
I really hope you don't mean that you are required to pay to use the chat =/
kikimama
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)297 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 18:46:56
January 13 2012 18:42 GMT
#39748
It really doesn't matter what they do with the money. If you don't want to pay, don't pay. If you do, then good for you. You're supporting people who you watch for entertainment. Last time I checked it was still a donation kind of thing. If they want to buy a ps3 (disclaimer: they are not buying a ps3 with it) with it, I don't really care and if you do care then don't donate. It's simple as that but don't try to bring up in as many ways possible, why donating to the show is bad. If you are not going to donate, don't donate and don't post why you are not going to donate. You can't do both, that's just being a dick to these guys who are putting on a show for us. I'd actually prefer the donations go towards their salary. Can any one of you honestly say they don't deserve something monetarily. If anything would improve the show, it would be the fact that the members get paid to do the show. They would be more inclined to give better presentations and debates.

TL;DR: If you're not going to donate, don't be a dick and post why you are not. That's why it's called a donation or optional subscription.

I'd suggest they let people donate as little or as much as they want. If some want to donate a dollar for every show they watch then that should be possible. If they want to donate $1000 for the year, why is that not an option?

Also, IMO it'd be better to have the Q/A at the end be live callers because the show pretty much covers most of the important subjects and sometimes they are asked again in the twitter questions. This way it will be more dynamic and have a more involved feel just like the last episode from last year. Perhaps only subscribers can call in.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 13 2012 18:59 GMT
#39749
On January 13 2012 13:28 coolcor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2012 04:14 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On January 13 2012 03:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why does SOTG need a sponsor for though?

To do business. What we do does business in two ways: sponsors and subscriptions. We're gonna try to do both. But like JP said, we're not taking anything away. Anything we do for sponsors or for subscriptions would be in addition to everything we've already been doing.

When done right, business benefits everyone. At the very least, it ought to benefit some and not hurt anyone else. For example, ideally if we have a sponsor then these benefits would come about: the sponsor has increased sales, the hosts earn money for their work, the viewers benefit from the increased value of incentivized hosts (higher quality work and higher chance that it doesn't stop).

The anti-business sentiments in the esports community can be quite frustrating. Business doesn't have to screw anyone. Commerce isn't evil. Money can change hands in exchange for services and everyone can be happier for it. Everyone does it all the time but it seems that a lot of people in the community have an irrational exception to that when it comes to esports.

Nothing going on is really stable. SOTG and omg.tv are not stable. MLG, IPL, NASL and GomTV are not stable. No player's career is stable. The only way things really could stabilize is if the community is full of people willing to spend money. Spend money on sponsors' products or (preferably) spend money directly on esports products (stream subscriptions, team apparel, live event tickets, etc). If people don't spend money, there won't be as much good quality content as there could be and things will not last. SC2 has a unique opportunity because its community is generally older and thus is more employed and has more money to spend. An anti-business sentiment is not what we need. If we don't do good business, we won't last. And if we can't ever attempt to do any business because the community moans and groans, then we'll never have a shot at doing good business.

I think everyone ought to honestly reflect on how they spend their money and how much they value the things they buy. For those of you who have been an SC2 fan for a year, can you think about how much money you've spent on entertainment/luxury in the past year and how much of that went into the SC2 scene? Can you then see if that percentage is a fair reflection of how much entertainment you get out of SC2? I think if everyone in the community had an accurate reflection there, then SC2 would be soaring and we wouldn't have a worry in the world about this lasting for a long time and improving the whole way.

P.S. I know this doesn't apply to everyone. I know there is a very large group of people that loves everything that players/commentators/leagues/etc do and they want to support us fairly. You are the reason we have hope!


Hey I don't mind you guys getting sponsors and optional subscriptions go ahead and do that but I wanted to ask some questions.

Why is this post so negative on the current stability of sc2 esports are all the tournaments losing money and soon to go out of business if things don't get much better?

Why is people directly spending lots more money on esports the only hope to make things stable? Is there no hope for increased viewership resulting in more money from sponsors commercials and direct payments naturally increasing with viewership? Didn't viewership increase and make records in 2011?

Even if you get people to buy enough stuff to support all the tournaments don't you still run the risk of them losing interest and stop buying stuff making sc2 forever not stable like most entertainment or businesses that have not been proven to last for decades already? Even broodwar in korea is falling after 10 years and who knows if an sc2 switch can save the industry.


Nothing is stable because sponsors need to see ROI(return on investment). Esports has not has shining results in the past and sponsors are always looking for better places to spend their money. It is not enough that SotG gets 20 K viewers, those viewers also have to be willing to buy something from the sponsor. Several team managers have stated it is harder to keep a sponsor than to get one.

Many people just assume the SC2 will just keep on going because they see huge numbers at MGL, Dream Hack and huge numbers on the streams. And that is fine, the evidence shows that 2011 was a huge year. But we can assume with little risk because we do not depend on the income from SC2 and sponsors. People like JP and the hosts do not have that luxury. They need to hit the pavement and work hard to assure that the money keeps flowinig and that they can keep content comming out that we enjoy. That means getting income where they can.

JP is doing this the best way he knows how, by asking the community directly. And frankly, its a really good plan. We have proven that SC2 fans love to support the game and be as directly involved if possible. JP also wants to be indpendant as possible, so they can provide the reporting on events at the level and honesty that they want. The best way to be independant is to be supported directly by the people who read and listen you. NPR has been doing it for years and even if you don't agree with some of their reporting, it is always high quality.

In the end, it all comes down to trust. Do you trust the guys on SotG to spend your money well and provide you with what you want? If so, sign up and write a check. If your worried they will spend the money on lottery tickets and booze, don't give any and enjoy the show for free.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
itmeJP
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1101 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 20:21:40
January 13 2012 20:21 GMT
#39750
Shit hits the fan on January 19th at 7p.m. http://www.twitch.tv/StateOfTheGame
Twitter.com/itmeJP -- Twitch.tv/itmeJP -- YouTube.com/itmeJP
bigAL
Profile Joined June 2010
United States49 Posts
January 13 2012 21:01 GMT
#39751
Cannot wait!!!!
Im going through major withdrawals.
Thank you for doing what you do JP!!!
Song Byung Goo!!! Song Byung Goo!!! Song Byung Goo!!!
Bodzilla
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia472 Posts
January 13 2012 22:31 GMT
#39752
Cant wait, sounds good JP

:D
when life gives you lemons, make banelings
SeraKuDA
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada343 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-14 01:49:37
January 14 2012 01:49 GMT
#39753
On January 13 2012 14:01 ChuCky.Ca wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2012 13:58 Chriscras wrote:
On January 13 2012 13:57 ChuCky.Ca wrote:
On January 13 2012 13:53 Chriscras wrote:
On January 13 2012 13:48 ChuCky.Ca wrote:
On January 13 2012 13:42 Chriscras wrote:
On January 13 2012 13:36 ChuCky.Ca wrote:
On January 13 2012 13:27 Chriscras wrote:
On January 13 2012 13:22 corpuscle wrote:

Geoff said that there were only three possible times for them to work with, so I (and, presumably, most other people) were operating under the assumption that they couldn't really do 8 PM. The Daily starts at 10:30 EST, and Sean's said many times that he needs time to prepare for it; starting the show two and a half hours before the Daily either means Sean has to leave early every time AND he won't have any sort of downtime between SotG/daily prep/actually doing the daily, which really sucks for him.



Okay well there you go, SotG now runs right into the Daily, which I was worrying about in my posts in between responding to the personal attacks.

Just the fact the Daily starts at 10:30pm and not 4pm shows that Sean has already taken the best times into consideration and placed the Daily in the optimal primetime slot to maximize viewership on a daily basis.

Additionally, now that SotG is not going to be able run past 2 hours because it preempts the Daily will alone effect the content and pacing of the show

that doesn't even make sense there's at least three hour before daily of course it wont interfere with it day9's on the show come on....... think man


Sean needs prep-time and sometimes he's working on it until the last minute. Jury is still out on whether hosting SotG before the Daily will have an effect on Sean's participation in the show and the pacing of the show in general...

they obviously have that worked out our else they wouldnt have set it at that time im sorry if i sound like a dick but think man plz use your head


You're forgiven. Maybe stop acting like a dick though?

I don't know how accurately one can predict Day9's schedule past the next month or so.

then stop trying to predict it and saying it wont work with sotg...


I'm not trying to predict it -- I am saying that maybe they don't have it as worked out as you think.

of course they do there professionals all the hosts obviously got together and discussed what time works for all of them man you really know how to get under someones skin Ive never gotten ticked off like this on a forum in years congrats


After reading your post I opened up the quote.... Why are you getting so irritated? He makes good points, as do you. It's all good speculation.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
January 14 2012 02:03 GMT
#39754
On January 13 2012 21:03 Kar98 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2012 18:00 coolcor wrote:
On January 13 2012 16:48 corpuscle wrote:
But the question is do tournaments have that good business model or not. If and how sotg makes money does not matter at all when you are talking about the stability of the entire scene like Tyler was. The tournaments need to be stable or everything else is lost


It doesn't matter if they have a good business model or not if everyone who's interested in SC2 just wants to sit on their ass and enjoy everything for free, and gets all indignant and pissy when someone who's providing content wants some sort of compensation. I don't want to put words in Tyler's mouth, but I think what he was getting at is that we're a pretty stingy community as a whole, and ESPORTS can't keep going forever if the fans don't put any money back into it.

When sponsors look at whether or not they want to throw down money for SC2, they have to look at whether people are actually willing to give them some sort of ROI, and eventually they'll stop throwing money at tournaments if it doesn't actually get them anything. ESPORTS is still a highly volatile market right now, and it would go a long way for the long-term stability of the industry if the community at large wasn't so aggressively tight-fisted.

Honestly, it's fucking stupid how much you see people bitching about tournaments not having a big enough prize pool and then at the same time getting angry that organizations/shows/personalities want their audiences to give them some money... it has to come from somewhere. You might think that SotG being funded or not has nothing to do with the tournament scene, but it actually does; companies will definitely notice if tons of people are willing to voluntarily throw money at a show about SC2, and they'll also notice if people get pissed at the mere suggestion of being asked to spend.


what a stingy community


Very unfortunately . All the winging I hear about how $10 is so much money is just sad. I don't care if you're in college, $10 is less than an hour of work


then you wont mind paying everyone elses sub then
Achilles17
Profile Joined December 2011
United States111 Posts
January 14 2012 02:10 GMT
#39755
On January 14 2012 03:59 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2012 13:28 coolcor wrote:
On January 13 2012 04:14 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On January 13 2012 03:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why does SOTG need a sponsor for though?

To do business. What we do does business in two ways: sponsors and subscriptions. We're gonna try to do both. But like JP said, we're not taking anything away. Anything we do for sponsors or for subscriptions would be in addition to everything we've already been doing.

When done right, business benefits everyone. At the very least, it ought to benefit some and not hurt anyone else. For example, ideally if we have a sponsor then these benefits would come about: the sponsor has increased sales, the hosts earn money for their work, the viewers benefit from the increased value of incentivized hosts (higher quality work and higher chance that it doesn't stop).

The anti-business sentiments in the esports community can be quite frustrating. Business doesn't have to screw anyone. Commerce isn't evil. Money can change hands in exchange for services and everyone can be happier for it. Everyone does it all the time but it seems that a lot of people in the community have an irrational exception to that when it comes to esports.

Nothing going on is really stable. SOTG and omg.tv are not stable. MLG, IPL, NASL and GomTV are not stable. No player's career is stable. The only way things really could stabilize is if the community is full of people willing to spend money. Spend money on sponsors' products or (preferably) spend money directly on esports products (stream subscriptions, team apparel, live event tickets, etc). If people don't spend money, there won't be as much good quality content as there could be and things will not last. SC2 has a unique opportunity because its community is generally older and thus is more employed and has more money to spend. An anti-business sentiment is not what we need. If we don't do good business, we won't last. And if we can't ever attempt to do any business because the community moans and groans, then we'll never have a shot at doing good business.

I think everyone ought to honestly reflect on how they spend their money and how much they value the things they buy. For those of you who have been an SC2 fan for a year, can you think about how much money you've spent on entertainment/luxury in the past year and how much of that went into the SC2 scene? Can you then see if that percentage is a fair reflection of how much entertainment you get out of SC2? I think if everyone in the community had an accurate reflection there, then SC2 would be soaring and we wouldn't have a worry in the world about this lasting for a long time and improving the whole way.

P.S. I know this doesn't apply to everyone. I know there is a very large group of people that loves everything that players/commentators/leagues/etc do and they want to support us fairly. You are the reason we have hope!


Hey I don't mind you guys getting sponsors and optional subscriptions go ahead and do that but I wanted to ask some questions.

Why is this post so negative on the current stability of sc2 esports are all the tournaments losing money and soon to go out of business if things don't get much better?

Why is people directly spending lots more money on esports the only hope to make things stable? Is there no hope for increased viewership resulting in more money from sponsors commercials and direct payments naturally increasing with viewership? Didn't viewership increase and make records in 2011?

Even if you get people to buy enough stuff to support all the tournaments don't you still run the risk of them losing interest and stop buying stuff making sc2 forever not stable like most entertainment or businesses that have not been proven to last for decades already? Even broodwar in korea is falling after 10 years and who knows if an sc2 switch can save the industry.


Nothing is stable because sponsors need to see ROI(return on investment). Esports has not has shining results in the past and sponsors are always looking for better places to spend their money. It is not enough that SotG gets 20 K viewers, those viewers also have to be willing to buy something from the sponsor. Several team managers have stated it is harder to keep a sponsor than to get one.

Many people just assume the SC2 will just keep on going because they see huge numbers at MGL, Dream Hack and huge numbers on the streams. And that is fine, the evidence shows that 2011 was a huge year. But we can assume with little risk because we do not depend on the income from SC2 and sponsors. People like JP and the hosts do not have that luxury. They need to hit the pavement and work hard to assure that the money keeps flowinig and that they can keep content comming out that we enjoy. That means getting income where they can.

JP is doing this the best way he knows how, by asking the community directly. And frankly, its a really good plan. We have proven that SC2 fans love to support the game and be as directly involved if possible. JP also wants to be indpendant as possible, so they can provide the reporting on events at the level and honesty that they want. The best way to be independant is to be supported directly by the people who read and listen you. NPR has been doing it for years and even if you don't agree with some of their reporting, it is always high quality.

In the end, it all comes down to trust. Do you trust the guys on SotG to spend your money well and provide you with what you want? If so, sign up and write a check. If your worried they will spend the money on lottery tickets and booze, don't give any and enjoy the show for free.


Finally someone who knows what they're talking about.
tsuxiit
Profile Joined July 2010
1305 Posts
January 14 2012 19:52 GMT
#39756
So wait...I know you said you aren't taking anything away from people who don't subscribe (and I will subscribe, I'll say that so no one throws pitchforks at me), but the post on the SotG blog says that being a subscriber allows "access to the chat." I really think that the stream chat should be an open "everyone in the community" type of thing. Even if it's full of trolls and dumb shit, predominantly from people who don't subscribe, having everyone be able to talk in there is a historical type of thing that I've always liked to see everyone participate in. I really hope you don't make the chat subscriber only.
kikimama
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)297 Posts
January 14 2012 19:58 GMT
#39757
On January 15 2012 04:52 tsuxiit wrote:
So wait...I know you said you aren't taking anything away from people who don't subscribe (and I will subscribe, I'll say that so no one throws pitchforks at me), but the post on the SotG blog says that being a subscriber allows "access to the chat." I really think that the stream chat should be an open "everyone in the community" type of thing. Even if it's full of trolls and dumb shit, predominantly from people who don't subscribe, having everyone be able to talk in there is a historical type of thing that I've always liked to see everyone participate in. I really hope you don't make the chat subscriber only.

You just made the case against yourself.
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
January 14 2012 20:05 GMT
#39758
On January 15 2012 04:52 tsuxiit wrote:
So wait...I know you said you aren't taking anything away from people who don't subscribe (and I will subscribe, I'll say that so no one throws pitchforks at me), but the post on the SotG blog says that being a subscriber allows "access to the chat." I really think that the stream chat should be an open "everyone in the community" type of thing. Even if it's full of trolls and dumb shit, predominantly from people who don't subscribe, having everyone be able to talk in there is a historical type of thing that I've always liked to see everyone participate in. I really hope you don't make the chat subscriber only.

I couldn't disagree more. Any time you get a big stream chat going, it's inevitably so full of trolls and idiots that it's no longer worth participating in or even looking at. I'm absolutely for the implementation of something that heavily restricts access to the chat in order to clean it up a bit, and I doubt I'll even bother being one of the people who subscribes. The only other solution would be to hire like 20 mods, and good luck getting hold of that many random people that are not only trustworthy enough to to the job right, but also available every time the show is on.
Parsistamon
Profile Joined July 2010
United States390 Posts
January 14 2012 20:06 GMT
#39759
This has been mentioned before but I would like to emphasize again that I preferred SOTG when it talked about strategy. It seems like these days it's been a lot about gossip. I like some discussion about community news (e.g. the naniwa incident), but please try to include metagame discussion.

The main obstacle to this is that the only pro players you have are protoss. Though Artosis and Day[9] can certainly bring something unique to the table, I think it would be best to include a zerg and terran player as well. To this end, I think it'd be cool if there was a section of the show (give it a name) dedicated to strategy where you invite two such players just for that part of the show.

Perhaps another way to do it would be to pick a certain strategy in a certain match-up and try to pick apart what makes it strong/weak with representatives from each race.

Regardless of the approach, I think you get the idea--more strategy, less gossip.
JackDragon
Profile Joined February 2011
525 Posts
January 14 2012 20:55 GMT
#39760
I love the new times. Atlast I will be able watch it live every time. And just not on the occasional time when my normal schedule is messed up.
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