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On January 13 2012 12:50 ChuCky.Ca wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 12:46 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 12:45 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 13 2012 12:41 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 12:39 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 13 2012 12:35 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 12:31 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 13 2012 12:29 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 12:26 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 13 2012 12:22 Chriscras wrote:[quote] [quote] Your personal attacks on me are further proof of lack of a good counter argument. Feel free to respond with something constructive if you actually want to add to the discussion. For your reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem I have and really dont feel like going over the same things your arguing for the sack of arguing do you have nothing else to do this is there show chill the fuck out they can do what they want and like JP said they will change the time if they need to no need to go off about it... I'm not the one getting all angry and using words like f--k. If anyone needs to chill it's you. im quiet chill thanks for your concern tho means a lot You're welcome. Now would you like to discuss the SotG time change without swearing at me? nothing more to say ill copy and paste all you need to know this is there show they can put it at what time they want JP said he will change it if he needs to. there thats all you need to know this will be my last post on this please use you head before grabbing your pitchfork next time bye. Sounds good. I was trying to have a discussion on why I think JP's decision to move the show to a much much earlier time was a bad one and will cost them more viewers than they gain. Hopefully, JP will realize this and put the show on at a better time than late afternoon/dinner time in the USA. fine one more post lol.. except you were an asshole about it instead of being constructive and giving your reasons you said it was a joke call Yeah, all I see in this response is a--hole and something about a joke call. Sorry, don't really know what you are trying to argue  Do you know what white-knighting is? It usually only applies to defending females, but I am pretty sure that's what is going on here... no more plz to funny have a great day
You have a great day too! Glad you are laughing and not raging anymore 
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On January 13 2012 11:04 itmeJP wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 11:02 Chriscras wrote:
CALLING IT NOW -- SotG will have less viewers because of the move as opposed to more.
The idea that they believe more they will have more viewers watching at 1am in Europe than at 7pm on the West Coast is HILARIOUS.
Just look back at this thread and see all the Europeans talking about how they are not going to stay up until 3-4am for SotG even at this new hour.
Then we'll move the show back, ezpz
sry for turning your thread into a gong show for a couple pages just some people ugh. cant wait for thursday's show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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holy shit stop trying to get in the last word this isn't high school.
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Yeah, all I see in this response is a--hole and something about a joke call. Sorry, don't really know what you are trying to argue Do you know what white-knighting is? It usually only applies to defending females, but I am pretty sure that's what is going on here...
It's not a discussion when you state an opinion that isn't grounded in evidence or logic and then ignore/nit-pick any actual information that counters your viewpoint; it's just people beating their heads against a wall.
The new time is easier for most of the people who live in the most populated timezone, and it's now at least somewhat accessible to Europeans, who had no chance of watching it without being on a weird sleep schedule. It sucks for most people on PST, and a lot of people on CT, but for virtually everyone else in the target audience (sorry Asia/Eastern Europe), it's better.
There's no time that's perfect, and everyone understands and appreciates that the new time sucks for you and thousands of others, but you can't go around saying that the show's gonna lose viewers just on a hunch if all the empirical evidence and logical arguments disagree with you. That's not a civil discussion, that's you being ignorant and frustrating those of us that are trying to explain the issue (which is why you get f-bombs and shut ups and stuff).
Also, it's pretty silly to link the Wikipedia on ad-hominem attacks and then call someone a white knight.
edit: CT not CET, CET is in europe >_>
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On January 13 2012 12:54 ChuCky.Ca wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 11:04 itmeJP wrote:On January 13 2012 11:02 Chriscras wrote:
CALLING IT NOW -- SotG will have less viewers because of the move as opposed to more.
The idea that they believe more they will have more viewers watching at 1am in Europe than at 7pm on the West Coast is HILARIOUS.
Just look back at this thread and see all the Europeans talking about how they are not going to stay up until 3-4am for SotG even at this new hour.
Then we'll move the show back, ezpz sry for turning your thread into a gong show for a couple pages just some people ugh. cant wait for thursday's show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I apologize as well. I just want SotG to be as awesome as it always was, just a little concerned about how drastic the time change is. That is all.
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On January 13 2012 12:56 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +Yeah, all I see in this response is a--hole and something about a joke call. Sorry, don't really know what you are trying to argue Do you know what white-knighting is? It usually only applies to defending females, but I am pretty sure that's what is going on here... It's not a discussion when you state an opinion that isn't grounded in evidence or logic and then ignore/nit-pick any actual information that counters your viewpoint; it's just people beating their heads against a wall. The new time is easier for most of the people who live in the most populated timezone, and it's now at least somewhat accessible to Europeans, who had no chance of watching it without being on a weird sleep schedule. It sucks for most people on PST, and a lot of people on CET, but for virtually everyone else in the target audience (sorry Asia/Eastern Europe), it's better. There's no time that's perfect, and everyone understands and appreciates that the new time sucks for you and thousands of others, but you can't go around saying that the show's gonna lose viewers just on a hunch if all the empirical evidence and logical arguments disagree with you. That's not a civil discussion, that's you being ignorant and frustrating those of us that are trying to explain the issue (which is why you get f-bombs and shut ups and stuff). Also, it's pretty silly to link the Wikipedia on ad-hominem attacks and then call someone a white knight.
Yeah, I wasn't sure if the white knight thing was crossing the line, but I was trying to point out that the only reason he was attacking me personally was because I disagreed with JPs decision to move the show to such an earlier time.
I also pointed out that 8pm and not 7pm is better for EST, and the move was made for Europeans not for EST. Kind of drastic to say "all the empirical evidence and logical arguments disagree with [me]" no?
This all started because I said that there are more viewers on the West Coast at 7pm then there ever would be at 1am in Europe. That's the net viewership I think will be lost.
As for EST I assumed they would watch the show wether it was on at 7, 8, 9 or 10 pm the last three hours of which are classically defined as "Primetime" in the USA.
As for being civil, I believe I am the only one maintaining any civility in this thread hence my attempt to avoid all personal attacks in response
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Yeah, I wasn't sure if the white knight thing was crossing the line, but I was trying to point out that the only reason he was attacking me personally was because I disagreed with JPs decision to move the show to such an earlier time.
He "attacked you personally" (though I think accusing someone of white-knighting is more offensive than saying "chill the fuck out") because you're being really stubborn and your arguments don't really make sense.
I also pointed out that 8pm and not 7pm is better for EST, and the move was made for Europeans not for EST. Kind of drastic to say "all the empirical evidence and logical arguments disagree with [me]" no?
Geoff said that there were only three possible times for them to work with, so I (and, presumably, most other people) were operating under the assumption that they couldn't really do 8 PM. The Daily starts at 10:30 EST, and Sean's said many times that he needs time to prepare for it; starting the show two and a half hours before the Daily either means Sean has to leave early every time AND he won't have any sort of downtime between SotG/daily prep/actually doing the daily, which really sucks for him.
I guess nobody spelled that out for you explicitly, but it's sort of obvious if you think about it for a little while.
This all started because I said that there are more viewers on the West Coast at 7pm then there ever would be at 1am in Europe. That's the net viewership I think will be lost.
7 EST is 12 GMT, so it's actually only midnight for UK/portugese viewers, but I see what you're saying. There's more people living in Great Britain alone than the West Coast (at least counting the US, though iirc Canada's west is fairly sparsely populated anyway), and then when you add in the late-night central European crowd, I do honestly think that will outweigh the West Coast, though we can agree that that's still somewhat of a guess. Nerds are kind of known to stay up way too late, though, so it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of EU fans were willing to stay up until 2 or 3 to at least catch the first hour or two.
Even if we only assume that 25% of the EST crowd that wasn't watching live before now can tune in, that would negate 75% of the PST crowd no longer being able to watch. Add in the Europeans that can now watch (keep in mind, almost NOBODY from the EU could watch live before), and it's not even close. I know I sort of pulled those numbers out of my ass, but I think we can agree that the actual numbers are probably at least somewhere close to that.
edit: and sorry if you don't think we're being civil, as far as I can tell everyone seems pretty calm, maybe a little exasperated but nobody's said anything that's outright aggressive
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Lame, I live in PST and don't get home until 7ish on Thursdays. :/
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On January 13 2012 13:22 corpuscle wrote:
Geoff said that there were only three possible times for them to work with, so I (and, presumably, most other people) were operating under the assumption that they couldn't really do 8 PM. The Daily starts at 10:30 EST, and Sean's said many times that he needs time to prepare for it; starting the show two and a half hours before the Daily either means Sean has to leave early every time AND he won't have any sort of downtime between SotG/daily prep/actually doing the daily, which really sucks for him.
Okay well there you go, SotG now runs right into the Daily, which I was worrying about in my posts in between responding to the personal attacks.
Just the fact the Daily starts at 10:30pm and not 4pm shows that Sean has already taken the best times into consideration and placed the Daily in the optimal primetime slot to maximize viewership on a daily basis.
Additionally, now that SotG is not going to be able run past 2 hours because it preempts the Daily will alone effect the content and pacing of the show
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On January 13 2012 04:14 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 03:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why does SOTG need a sponsor for though? To do business. What we do does business in two ways: sponsors and subscriptions. We're gonna try to do both. But like JP said, we're not taking anything away. Anything we do for sponsors or for subscriptions would be in addition to everything we've already been doing. When done right, business benefits everyone. At the very least, it ought to benefit some and not hurt anyone else. For example, ideally if we have a sponsor then these benefits would come about: the sponsor has increased sales, the hosts earn money for their work, the viewers benefit from the increased value of incentivized hosts (higher quality work and higher chance that it doesn't stop). The anti-business sentiments in the esports community can be quite frustrating. Business doesn't have to screw anyone. Commerce isn't evil. Money can change hands in exchange for services and everyone can be happier for it. Everyone does it all the time but it seems that a lot of people in the community have an irrational exception to that when it comes to esports. Nothing going on is really stable. SOTG and omg.tv are not stable. MLG, IPL, NASL and GomTV are not stable. No player's career is stable. The only way things really could stabilize is if the community is full of people willing to spend money. Spend money on sponsors' products or (preferably) spend money directly on esports products (stream subscriptions, team apparel, live event tickets, etc). If people don't spend money, there won't be as much good quality content as there could be and things will not last. SC2 has a unique opportunity because its community is generally older and thus is more employed and has more money to spend. An anti-business sentiment is not what we need. If we don't do good business, we won't last. And if we can't ever attempt to do any business because the community moans and groans, then we'll never have a shot at doing good business. I think everyone ought to honestly reflect on how they spend their money and how much they value the things they buy. For those of you who have been an SC2 fan for a year, can you think about how much money you've spent on entertainment/luxury in the past year and how much of that went into the SC2 scene? Can you then see if that percentage is a fair reflection of how much entertainment you get out of SC2? I think if everyone in the community had an accurate reflection there, then SC2 would be soaring and we wouldn't have a worry in the world about this lasting for a long time and improving the whole way. P.S. I know this doesn't apply to everyone. I know there is a very large group of people that loves everything that players/commentators/leagues/etc do and they want to support us fairly. You are the reason we have hope!
Hey I don't mind you guys getting sponsors and optional subscriptions go ahead and do that but I wanted to ask some questions.
Why is this post so negative on the current stability of sc2 esports are all the tournaments losing money and soon to go out of business if things don't get much better?
Why is people directly spending lots more money on esports the only hope to make things stable? Is there no hope for increased viewership resulting in more money from sponsors commercials and direct payments naturally increasing with viewership? Didn't viewership increase and make records in 2011?
Even if you get people to buy enough stuff to support all the tournaments don't you still run the risk of them losing interest and stop buying stuff making sc2 forever not stable like most entertainment or businesses that have not been proven to last for decades already? Even broodwar in korea is falling after 10 years and who knows if an sc2 switch can save the industry.
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On January 13 2012 13:27 Chriscras wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 13:22 corpuscle wrote:
Geoff said that there were only three possible times for them to work with, so I (and, presumably, most other people) were operating under the assumption that they couldn't really do 8 PM. The Daily starts at 10:30 EST, and Sean's said many times that he needs time to prepare for it; starting the show two and a half hours before the Daily either means Sean has to leave early every time AND he won't have any sort of downtime between SotG/daily prep/actually doing the daily, which really sucks for him.
Okay well there you go, SotG now runs right into the Daily, which I was worrying about in my post in between responding to the personal attacks. The fact that SotG is not going to be able run past 2 hours because it now preempts the Daily will alone effect the content and pacing of the show
What? 7:00 to 10:30 is three and a half hours, that gives the show three and a half hours before the Daily starts... the show can run for three hours, Sean can leave early like he always does, and he'll have time to do what he needs to to unwind and still be ready for the Daily.
If anything, we'll have more Day9 because he won't already be super tired from just having done the Daily.
Why is people directly spending lots more money on esports the only hope to make things stable? Is there no hope for increased viewership resulting in more money from sponsors commercials and direct payments naturally increasing with viewership? Didn't viewership increase and make records in 2011?
Are there any other comparable entertainment industries that don't rely on people spending money directly? Regular sports make money through merchandising, people buying tickets to games, and licensing fees from broadcasters. You can either go the route of direct support (merchandise, ticket sales), or you can go for heavy ad revenues, which means you're going to be beholden to some corporate shmucks who doesn't want you to misrepresent their company and want 25% of the show's airtime to be commercials.
I, personally, would rather just throw my money directly at the hosts.
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On January 13 2012 13:27 Chriscras wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 13:22 corpuscle wrote:
Geoff said that there were only three possible times for them to work with, so I (and, presumably, most other people) were operating under the assumption that they couldn't really do 8 PM. The Daily starts at 10:30 EST, and Sean's said many times that he needs time to prepare for it; starting the show two and a half hours before the Daily either means Sean has to leave early every time AND he won't have any sort of downtime between SotG/daily prep/actually doing the daily, which really sucks for him.
Okay well there you go, SotG now runs right into the Daily, which I was worrying about in my posts in between responding to the personal attacks. Just the fact the Daily starts at 10:30pm and not 4pm shows that Sean has already taken the best times into consideration and placed the Daily in the optimal primetime slot to maximize viewership on a daily basis. Additionally, now that SotG is not going to be able run past 2 hours because it preempts the Daily will alone effect the content and pacing of the show
that doesn't even make sense there's at least three hour before daily of course it wont interfere with it day9's on the show come on....... think man
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On January 13 2012 13:36 ChuCky.Ca wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 13:27 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 13:22 corpuscle wrote:
Geoff said that there were only three possible times for them to work with, so I (and, presumably, most other people) were operating under the assumption that they couldn't really do 8 PM. The Daily starts at 10:30 EST, and Sean's said many times that he needs time to prepare for it; starting the show two and a half hours before the Daily either means Sean has to leave early every time AND he won't have any sort of downtime between SotG/daily prep/actually doing the daily, which really sucks for him.
Okay well there you go, SotG now runs right into the Daily, which I was worrying about in my posts in between responding to the personal attacks. Just the fact the Daily starts at 10:30pm and not 4pm shows that Sean has already taken the best times into consideration and placed the Daily in the optimal primetime slot to maximize viewership on a daily basis. Additionally, now that SotG is not going to be able run past 2 hours because it preempts the Daily will alone effect the content and pacing of the show that doesn't even make sense there's at least three hour before daily of course it wont interfere with it day9's on the show come on....... think man
Sean needs prep-time and sometimes he's working on it until the last minute. Jury is still out on whether hosting SotG before the Daily will have an effect on Sean's participation in the show and the pacing of the show in general...
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Sean needs prep-time and sometimes he's working on it until the last minute. Jury is still out on whether hosting SotG before the Daily will have an effect on Sean's participation in the show and the pacing of the show in general...
If Sean didn't leave an hour early every time, it wouldn't truly be SotG. 
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Times changed?
Great for the UK.
I can actually watch this show live now.
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On January 13 2012 13:45 Asymmetric wrote:
Times changed?
Great for the UK.
I can actually watch this show live now.
that;s awesome grats man
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On January 13 2012 13:42 Chriscras wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 13:36 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 13 2012 13:27 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 13:22 corpuscle wrote:
Geoff said that there were only three possible times for them to work with, so I (and, presumably, most other people) were operating under the assumption that they couldn't really do 8 PM. The Daily starts at 10:30 EST, and Sean's said many times that he needs time to prepare for it; starting the show two and a half hours before the Daily either means Sean has to leave early every time AND he won't have any sort of downtime between SotG/daily prep/actually doing the daily, which really sucks for him.
Okay well there you go, SotG now runs right into the Daily, which I was worrying about in my posts in between responding to the personal attacks. Just the fact the Daily starts at 10:30pm and not 4pm shows that Sean has already taken the best times into consideration and placed the Daily in the optimal primetime slot to maximize viewership on a daily basis. Additionally, now that SotG is not going to be able run past 2 hours because it preempts the Daily will alone effect the content and pacing of the show that doesn't even make sense there's at least three hour before daily of course it wont interfere with it day9's on the show come on....... think man Sean needs prep-time and sometimes he's working on it until the last minute. Jury is still out on whether hosting SotG before the Daily will have an effect on Sean's participation in the show and the pacing of the show in general...
they obviously have that worked out our else they wouldnt have set it at that time im sorry if i sound like a dick but think man plz use your head
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On January 13 2012 13:48 ChuCky.Ca wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 13:42 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 13:36 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 13 2012 13:27 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 13:22 corpuscle wrote:
Geoff said that there were only three possible times for them to work with, so I (and, presumably, most other people) were operating under the assumption that they couldn't really do 8 PM. The Daily starts at 10:30 EST, and Sean's said many times that he needs time to prepare for it; starting the show two and a half hours before the Daily either means Sean has to leave early every time AND he won't have any sort of downtime between SotG/daily prep/actually doing the daily, which really sucks for him.
Okay well there you go, SotG now runs right into the Daily, which I was worrying about in my posts in between responding to the personal attacks. Just the fact the Daily starts at 10:30pm and not 4pm shows that Sean has already taken the best times into consideration and placed the Daily in the optimal primetime slot to maximize viewership on a daily basis. Additionally, now that SotG is not going to be able run past 2 hours because it preempts the Daily will alone effect the content and pacing of the show that doesn't even make sense there's at least three hour before daily of course it wont interfere with it day9's on the show come on....... think man Sean needs prep-time and sometimes he's working on it until the last minute. Jury is still out on whether hosting SotG before the Daily will have an effect on Sean's participation in the show and the pacing of the show in general... they obviously have that worked out our else they wouldnt have set it at that time im sorry if i sound like a dick but think man plz use your head
You're forgiven. Maybe stop acting like a dick though?
Forgive me if I'm not as sure about how accurately one can predict Day9's schedule past the next month or so.
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On January 13 2012 13:53 Chriscras wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 13:48 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 13 2012 13:42 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 13:36 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 13 2012 13:27 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 13:22 corpuscle wrote:
Geoff said that there were only three possible times for them to work with, so I (and, presumably, most other people) were operating under the assumption that they couldn't really do 8 PM. The Daily starts at 10:30 EST, and Sean's said many times that he needs time to prepare for it; starting the show two and a half hours before the Daily either means Sean has to leave early every time AND he won't have any sort of downtime between SotG/daily prep/actually doing the daily, which really sucks for him.
Okay well there you go, SotG now runs right into the Daily, which I was worrying about in my posts in between responding to the personal attacks. Just the fact the Daily starts at 10:30pm and not 4pm shows that Sean has already taken the best times into consideration and placed the Daily in the optimal primetime slot to maximize viewership on a daily basis. Additionally, now that SotG is not going to be able run past 2 hours because it preempts the Daily will alone effect the content and pacing of the show that doesn't even make sense there's at least three hour before daily of course it wont interfere with it day9's on the show come on....... think man Sean needs prep-time and sometimes he's working on it until the last minute. Jury is still out on whether hosting SotG before the Daily will have an effect on Sean's participation in the show and the pacing of the show in general... they obviously have that worked out our else they wouldnt have set it at that time im sorry if i sound like a dick but think man plz use your head You're forgiven. Maybe stop acting like a dick though? I don't know how accurately one can predict Day9's schedule past the next month or so.
then stop trying to predict it and saying it wont work with sotg...
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On January 13 2012 13:57 ChuCky.Ca wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 13:53 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 13:48 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 13 2012 13:42 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 13:36 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 13 2012 13:27 Chriscras wrote:On January 13 2012 13:22 corpuscle wrote:
Geoff said that there were only three possible times for them to work with, so I (and, presumably, most other people) were operating under the assumption that they couldn't really do 8 PM. The Daily starts at 10:30 EST, and Sean's said many times that he needs time to prepare for it; starting the show two and a half hours before the Daily either means Sean has to leave early every time AND he won't have any sort of downtime between SotG/daily prep/actually doing the daily, which really sucks for him.
Okay well there you go, SotG now runs right into the Daily, which I was worrying about in my posts in between responding to the personal attacks. Just the fact the Daily starts at 10:30pm and not 4pm shows that Sean has already taken the best times into consideration and placed the Daily in the optimal primetime slot to maximize viewership on a daily basis. Additionally, now that SotG is not going to be able run past 2 hours because it preempts the Daily will alone effect the content and pacing of the show that doesn't even make sense there's at least three hour before daily of course it wont interfere with it day9's on the show come on....... think man Sean needs prep-time and sometimes he's working on it until the last minute. Jury is still out on whether hosting SotG before the Daily will have an effect on Sean's participation in the show and the pacing of the show in general... they obviously have that worked out our else they wouldnt have set it at that time im sorry if i sound like a dick but think man plz use your head You're forgiven. Maybe stop acting like a dick though? I don't know how accurately one can predict Day9's schedule past the next month or so. then stop trying to predict it and saying it wont work with sotg...
I'm not trying to predict it -- I am saying that maybe they don't have it as worked out as you think.
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EPT
