Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1505

On August 30 2011 05:24 flowSthead wrote:

That is true, but in that case nothing is free. Any content that you go to will be taking some part of your time, and Inside The Game, as well as other SC content, has ads. There are few to none SC stuff out right that does not have ads, so I am not really sure what you are arguing here. When people say that it is free, they mean that you don't have to pay a subscription or something to watch it.

By the way, TV is not free. You pay a cable company to provide you access to a certain amount of channels, in the same way you are paying for your internet. But beyond your internet price, SOTG is free since you do not pay any extra to have access to it.

This is a problem then of what you want versus what other people want. Some people do like witty banter and charisma. And I do think you are simplifying things by implying that pros are not giving their "honest/logical opinions" on SC content on SOTG. They do it all the time, they just don't do it for the full episode. They talk about what is interesting to them, or what has happened recently, and the people that come to listen for the most part enjoy the discussion. You may not be one of those people, but have you ever considered that you are not the target market?

It would be similar to complaining that Newbie Tuesday does not have enough high level analysis. It's not all about you, individually. If JP suddenly sees a huge drop in viewers, then he will know that he is doing something that people do not like. Maybe he will then change his program, or maybe he just likes the show as is.

Last episode, JP also told people when the show would be playing, and it was also on the MLG schedule. It was not difficult to find out so I don't understand your criticism.

As for the VODs, this as well has been mentioned multiple times. MLG will be putting the VODs of everything starting to day, and in the next few days or weeks all of Raleigh will be up for free. If they lose you as a customer because you cannot wait or refuse to pay for a membership (or get a free one from the hotpockets thing), well then you are probably not a customer they particularly desire.

And maybe someone should recreate it. But no one has, so you are stuck with SOTG. And until someone does recreate it and does it better, this is all you will have. Again, it seems like you are not a loyal customer. That is fine, businesses usually do not run only on loyal customers. But often the 20% that are most loyal to a brand make about 80% of the revenue for that brand. You are clearly part of the 80% that is not loyal and that makes the 20% of the revenue. I am using a marketing analogy here, and since nothing is actually bought and sold it doesn't work perfectly, but my point is that the 20% most loyal to SOTG would follow it wherever it goes, in audio format or video, on MLG or blip, in China or on Mars. If those 20% are significant enough, then they can sustain the show with or without the 80% that you are a part of.

There is no problem here, but your criticism isn't constructive since what you are really saying is "I am not completely interested in what you are offering for me." Your criticism is essentially that you want a show that caters to you, and this show does not. You are not talking about places SOTG could improve, but an entirely different show.

What I find annoying is the sense of entitlement in this post. Yes, as a "customer" you certainly have the right to complain, but you are also acting like you are trying to help. You are not helping. This really does sound like whining because your criticism is pointless.

SOTG seems to have defined itself as a show where these 5 guys (before that 4) discuss things in the SC community. It is not where JP brings in 4 or 5 random pros to talk about things. It is where JP hangs out with his friends (Tyler, Day9, Incontrol, and Artosis) and they talk about things. You happen to think that this is not the greatest format. That is a valid viewpoint, but poor criticism since it does not contribute to the discussion of how SOTG could be better. It only contributes to the discussion of what is the best possible SC show, which is not what this thread is about.

You seem to have a poor understanding of both what SOTG and this thread is about, and a poor understanding of general business things.

On August 30 2011 04:18 opm1s6 wrote:


Is TV free entertainment? It's not free entertainment. I spend my free time and have to go through commercials and ads to get this content. Even if the ads are minimal clearly someone benefits from these efforts or otherwise they wouldn't be doing it (in the form of sponsor-ships). Clearly the content providers don't see this as them providing it for free, but rather as creating value in attempt to build their own careers in esports. If episodes are this hard to get to, then my attention will turn to other content providers (ex. inside the game). It's really that simple:

1. I don't care how witty your banter is, or how charismatic your co-hosts are, ultimately I want the pros honest/logical opinions on events that happen in the game, and I don't want to have to wait two weeks to get it, nor search a stupid website with pathetic search capabilities for it. Team liquid is the clear door to all content sc2 related, but if you create a disconnect by going through MLG and at a minimum don't post links on TL, then don't be surprised if ultimately you see less ratings. Less ratings, means less ad revenue, which ultimately hurts esports.

2. Consistency is key to any show. This is part of what has made day9 so successful (amongst many attributes). I use to be able to guarantee that I'd get a Day9 Daily...daily! If you tell people there's going to be SOTG on the coming Friday, and then provide no way to know what time, or how to watch the vod, easily, not only do you annoy your base of viewers, but you show how unprofessional you are as a content creator.

3. I don't care who these guys are all that much. If TL decided to have a weekly skype call with Jinro, Sheth and Tyler, and posted it on blip, I'd be all over it like white on rice. How about a TL Tournament Roundup, but a video version with a host and some highlights of the game winning moments. The same is true if Destiny, Catz and Drewbie put something together or if someone did a Korean SC2 news cast. There is only so much of this content I have an appetite for and if I get these opinions more consistently in an attractive, easy to reach form, then I'll gravitate towards that show. The model is easy to recreate, even if it doesn't have the rage/imba talk or whatever foolishness that magnifies the entertainment value of SOTG.

Live on Three has gained some ground because of the personalities, but also because it has a central location that I can go to, to watch the content without having to work for it. I just wish it was also more consistent.

I say this as a fan hoping that JP gets his *hit together and starts putting content up regularly and packages it a lot better. I'm glad to see the skype window issues have subsided, but if he's hoping to contribute and be part of the growth of esports, he needs to go up a few levels. The show needs to have better references for the viewers (maybe highlights of games discussed), more discussion of what made the difference in the game if it applies to trends in play, and finally just a better polish. His role as caster, and media outlet in some form needs to really get stepped up, and hopefully be the example for others in this fledgling industry. Again I say this with the true hope that SOTG finds eternal success.

On August 30 2011 06:08 JayJay_90 wrote:

thanks a lot!

On August 30 2011 06:03 darkest44 wrote:


That's TL now for ya. Half the kiddies here will nitpick/whine about literally any tiny thing that isn't EXACTLY how they want it. It's pretty sad, especially when they whine to hell about FREE content. Half these kids raise hell about any glitch/lag in mlg/tsl/nasl/gsl casts, the match they want not being shown or cast by the caster they want (usually tastetosis), yadayada, meanwhile they don't buy the pass or anything for the tournaments, so they are being spoiled little brats over free entertainment. TL has become pretty sad in that regard.

State of the game is fucking free as it gets, there aren't even commercials. I can't believe there's someone writing up some page long whine about it like they're being forced to watch it at gunpoint.

On August 30 2011 06:31 Flingoko wrote:


Very sorry, but i still cant find the SotG vod´s anywhere! Can someone please explain or post a link?

On August 30 2011 06:31 Flingoko wrote:


Very sorry, but i still cant find the SotG vod´s anywhere! Can someone please explain or post a link?

On August 30 2011 06:25 opm1s6 wrote:I think that's purely heresay, particularly since you have no idea how loyal I am. Imagine I had a gold subscription to MLG. How would I have known to go there

On August 30 2011 06:39 FreudianTrip wrote:


If you had a gold subscription and didn't know how to work the VODs menu and missed them mention several times that there would be an SOTG at the end of the day (it even said it on the MLG schedule) I'd want to have access to your wallet.

On August 30 2011 06:25 opm1s6 wrote:


My point was that TL is for me and many others the access point for how we digest SC2 content. This is the purpose of the SoTG thread as a way to deliver content. If you switch to using MLG's network (I'm sure there are perfectly good reasons for it), it would be nice to get an update on the SoTG main post, and the SoTG page after telling us in the last episode when the next episode would be. Anyone who misses the broadcast is then going to do what? If it wasn't for a handful of the posts on this thread, I would have had no idea how to get to it and using the MLG search function on their page went nowhere. It's just poor planning. I'm not asking for much, just update the post regularly regarding the past episode and how to get it and tell me when you're planning the next one is....it's not that hard and it's surely not that much to ask. This is the nice thing about Live on Three - everything is centralized and the one nice thing is that it's constantly updated. <-- ways to improve

This is a separate topic in my mind from the simple....let's just get better content. Two sides of the same coin and I didn't do as good of job separating them. Sorry. Anyway, these guys wear so many hats, that ultimately, when do they get around to content they're not able to invest in the content as much as they might like to as quickly as I'd like them to. I'm sure JP wants to do more/has plans to do more, just like IPL or NASL have tried to improve their polish with every season. We've seen him move to blip.tv which is great and he's worked out some kinks, but i'm hoping that even gets better. The better and more professional it looks, the more legitimacy it gains amongst fans, and novices who are new to the game, and just as importantly, it becomes more legitimate in the minds of advertisers. <-- ways to improve. Maybe this is all wishful thinking, but it's my opinion. Hopefully it isn't thrown out with simply a one sentence burp.

I think that's purely heresay, particularly since you have no idea how loyal I am. Imagine I had a gold subscription to MLG. How would I have known to go there, if it wasn't for a few posts in this thread, by TL users? Regardless, and to your point the statistic and numbers are what's important and you can't think that you can jettison the 80% and be ok.

TL decided to have a weekly skype call with Jinro, Sheth and Tyler, and posted it on blip, I'd be all over it like white on rice

Please don't paraphrase me. I've listed plenty of ways, and legitimate criticisms that doesn't take much to fix and make me happy. While I might have structured my posted slightly more scattered that I would have liked it, there's still a solid basis for wanting better communication with the fan base about when the last episode was, where to see the vod, what it takes to see it (buying a silver sub) and when the next one is. That is different and probably requires a completely different thread about how SoTG is similar to a sports review show in other sports and how it's level of professionalism affects the growth of SC2.

I'm not sure if you don't like the way I word my criticism or what...but take it or leave it. It's there and hopefully JP reads this and takes it seriously. BTW this entire counter-argument about entitlement is bs. It's strictly a tool used to try to mute people. I'm entitled as the audience to have an opinion about the quality of what I'm watching, and JP has provided a way to communicate with him about what I think as his audience ans has asked for that opinion. That is all that is required for me to have an opinion on the topic. Whether that's an opinion in the majority or not is then left to be seen.

I actually think this is completely off the mark and you misunderstood me. I think it's a great format. Everything else, I'll just ignore.

Thanks for the constructive response. It's nice to have some real discussion going back and forth.

On August 30 2011 06:46 opm1s6 wrote:


Yeah I missed it. So why wasn't it here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6047367

or here:

http://sotg-sc2.blogspot.com/

I haven't checked JP's twitter (I don't tweet in general).

And if I didn't have a sub and this was a way to bring in more subs to MLG, how was I suppose to know to go to MLG for it outside this thread? When's the next ep? I swear, I need a TV Guide for SC2...=oP

On August 30 2011 07:12 Zinjil wrote:
Ok so I've got a bit of a problem. I live in Iowa, a state where I, for some reason, cannot purchase an mlg gold or silver package. I'd be perfectly happy with just being able to purchase vod access and not gamebattle points, which are what I'm assuming are blocking me from giving mlg my money, but after the event it seems impossible to buy HQ stream access by itself. I may be going about it wrong, but each time I put my information in to purchase that access I am relocated to a standard mlg "error" screen with no directions whatsoever.

I'm unable to purchase access to watch the vods of Raleigh or the SOTG that happened during the event. Any advice anyone can give me would be incredible.

On August 28 2011 13:17 Plansix wrote:


"I'm entitled to a full 2 hours of State of the Game, because that's what I expected. I don't care that they have been up for 7 hours and flew from all over the world to be here. I am a team liquid poster and want everything, now, for free."

Seriously, people need to just be happy they get their free entertainment and enjoy it.

On August 30 2011 07:21 CurtisC wrote:


Again, for the third time: I'm not saying anyone is entitled to a full length state of the game. I thought it was a great 15 minute segment. What is disappointing is that they would advertise something as state of the game knowing full well they wouldn't have time or energy to put on a show that was remotely like a state of the game. Having the hosts of SotG talk for 15 minutes =/= SotG. On their website, state of the game is described: "State of the Game features four of the most well-known personalities from the Starcraft 2 eSports scene: JP 'itmeJP' McDaniel, Sean 'Day[9]' Plott, Dan 'Artosis' Stemkoski, and Tyler 'TLAF-LiquidTyler' Wasieleski. Each week the four hosts and sometimes a fifth guest recap what they've been up to in SC2, discuss the latest news and announcements, break down patch notes, break open build orders and strategies, and answer user submitted questions."

They did not discuss anything on that list except maybe 5% of the latest news in the form of a recap of the day's MLG matches. All I'm saying is don't advertise something as something it isn't.

Again, I love state of the game and all the hosts. I do not feel entitled to having them work 12 hour days during MLG because "I WANT STATE OF THE GAME AMG." Fridays aren't even their regularly scheduled time for sotg. As far as I know, there weren't forum-goers begging them to do a state of the game during MLG. I do, however, like honesty in advertising (yes, MLG does make money when they pull in more viewers and get more subscriptions. Saying they are having a state of the game does just that as there is a huge following for the show).