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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1482

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 1480 1481 1482 1483 1484 2731 Next
arfyron
Profile Joined July 2011
518 Posts
August 19 2011 18:32 GMT
#29621
Essentially Idra's main point that he repeats is that people with poor mechanics or people who weren't good at SC1 can win in SC2. I'm not commenting on the validity of his argument I'm just stating it because a lot of people seem to miss it.
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
August 19 2011 18:37 GMT
#29622
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".


Din't MaNa win a DH before ?
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
August 19 2011 18:37 GMT
#29623
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".

Pretty sure Mana has had much better results than Idra in the past 3 months
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
August 19 2011 18:40 GMT
#29624
On August 20 2011 03:37 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".


Din't MaNa win a DH before ?


Second place, Naama won.
Werk
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States294 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-19 18:44:20
August 19 2011 18:41 GMT
#29625
On August 20 2011 03:37 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".

Pretty sure Mana has had much better results than Idra in the past 3 months


I don't think "pretty sure" cuts it when everyone else is posting facts. I have to side with the people supporting idra on this one
Do Werk Son
Duravi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1205 Posts
August 19 2011 18:49 GMT
#29626
On August 20 2011 03:37 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".

Pretty sure Mana has had much better results than Idra in the past 3 months


I think it isn't even about Idra vs. Mana. He is sitting across the room from a bunch of teammates with no results even close to Mana, and then proceeds to bash the hell out of Mana. Someone on the show should ask him "Well if you think Mana is garbage what are your thoughts on Incontrol and Machine?" Of course he won't bash them but it will clearly illustrate his hypocrisy.
Hardigan
Profile Joined June 2011
Switzerland1297 Posts
August 19 2011 18:57 GMT
#29627
On August 20 2011 03:49 Duravi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 03:37 ReignFayth wrote:
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".

Pretty sure Mana has had much better results than Idra in the past 3 months


I think it isn't even about Idra vs. Mana. He is sitting across the room from a bunch of teammates with no results even close to Mana, and then proceeds to bash the hell out of Mana. Someone on the show should ask him "Well if you think Mana is garbage what are your thoughts on Incontrol and Machine?" Of course he won't bash them but it will clearly illustrate his hypocrisy.

It's his Teammates. Naturally he won't bash them and he shouldn't
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 19 2011 18:59 GMT
#29628
On August 20 2011 03:57 Hardigan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 03:49 Duravi wrote:
On August 20 2011 03:37 ReignFayth wrote:
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".

Pretty sure Mana has had much better results than Idra in the past 3 months


I think it isn't even about Idra vs. Mana. He is sitting across the room from a bunch of teammates with no results even close to Mana, and then proceeds to bash the hell out of Mana. Someone on the show should ask him "Well if you think Mana is garbage what are your thoughts on Incontrol and Machine?" Of course he won't bash them but it will clearly illustrate his hypocrisy.

It's his Teammates. Naturally he won't bash them and he shouldn't



Doesn't mean it's not hypocritical.
Mordiford
Profile Joined April 2011
4448 Posts
August 19 2011 19:00 GMT
#29629
On August 20 2011 03:41 Werk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 03:37 ReignFayth wrote:
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".

Pretty sure Mana has had much better results than Idra in the past 3 months


I don't think "pretty sure" cuts it when everyone else is posting facts. I have to side with the people supporting idra on this one


What facts are you referring to? IdrA won IPL1 in the last three months and come fourth at MLG and the NA Battle.net Invitational(Which had like 8 people in it) and second in some Tactic 3D tournament.

Mana came Third in IPL2(Much tougher competition), Second at Assembly and third in the SHOUTCraft Invitational.

If you want compare competition faced or prize money won, I'm pretty fucking sure(with facts listed) that Mana comes out ahead in the last three months.
Kilby
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland1069 Posts
August 19 2011 19:03 GMT
#29630
On August 20 2011 02:52 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 02:37 Soap wrote:
On August 20 2011 02:27 Doodsmack wrote:
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".



Your logic would hold if Idra had said something like "Mana isn't good enough to win major tournaments." However what Idra said was "Mana doesn't deserve to win games."


That's hyperbole.



No I think Idra means it literally. I don't think anyone would speak in hyperbole in 90% of their public comments. And even if it is hyperbole, the burden definitely wouldn't be on Mana to prove it wrong, since he can't really know what specifically Idra means behind the exagerration. His only natural response would be "yes of course I deserve to win games."


People allow Idra to say things like "x doesn't deserve to win games" because Idra is Idra. If it was anyone else, he would be ridiculed for being silly and ignorant. But at the same time I feel that Idra is actually very smart and has good points here and there but his output is just somewhat unusual and often extremely, extremely exaggerated. But since the community allows him to be perfectly non-PC in his opinions for the sake of entertainment, it's all good. Basically we all understand him. We all speak Idra and know that when he says that someone is absolutely horrible and never deserves to win a single game he means that he thinks that person could play better than what he currently does.

Just don't take him too literally.

I personally kind of enjoy Idra's style. It's a refreshing exception to the norm.
AntiGrav1ty
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2310 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-19 19:25:23
August 19 2011 19:16 GMT
#29631
On August 20 2011 03:41 Werk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 03:37 ReignFayth wrote:
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".

Pretty sure Mana has had much better results than Idra in the past 3 months


I don't think "pretty sure" cuts it when everyone else is posting facts. I have to side with the people supporting idra on this one


Lets break down the last 8-10 weeks:

Mana:

- won several european online cups.
- qualified for IEM Guangzhou as one of 4 players in europe
- third at Shoutcraft Invitational (beat Kas and White-Ra, lost to Morrow)
- placed third in IPL2 where he beat Thorzain and Idra (!)
- placed second in Assembly where he beat Huk, Nada, Brat_ok...
- is Top4 so far in an impressive run at IEM Cologne where he beat Puma, Stephano, Moonglade...


Idra:
- placed Top10 at MLG Anaheim where the only notable players he beat were Sheth and maybe Sjow...
- second at "Oddysey cup" where he lost to the only other top progamer who participated, Sen. (third was Axslav...)


Even if I forgot something on Idra's side I think it's safe to say that Mana has had better results lately. There is your facts.
www.twitch.tv/antigrav1ty
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
August 19 2011 19:35 GMT
#29632
Oh man this was such a great episode!!! It worked so well and I found it informative and hilarious. Artosis' zoom in had me in stitches, thanks guys for this amazing episode.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
xbankx
Profile Joined July 2010
703 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-19 19:42:31
August 19 2011 19:41 GMT
#29633
Results speaking lately Mana is just crushing Idra. I don't think people can deny that. It is mainly Idra's PvZ and Koreans. We all seen Idra at his prime. He was undeniably the best foreign zerg and top 3 zerg in the world. But these days, comon, he can't beat a toss to save his life. I mean Im not even suggesting the matchup is imbalanced cause if you watch sheth or korean zerg play against toss(I mean just look at Naniwa vs random code A korean zerg, 0-2 crushed). They aren't having any trouble. The main problem is if Idra can't get good practice, he can't get good. His team basically had the weakest toss lineup ever until recently.
Chewie
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark708 Posts
August 19 2011 19:48 GMT
#29634
Idra is a pompous fuck. There. Had to vent it.

Most of you were thinking it.
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12704 Posts
August 19 2011 19:51 GMT
#29635
You guys are a little touchy about the Mana thing lol. Idra's comment didn't surprise me at all. Why this is an issue I don't know.

p.s. I think Mana is very good, use to watch his stream all the time.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Choboo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Sweden2088 Posts
August 19 2011 20:32 GMT
#29636
On August 20 2011 03:49 Duravi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 03:37 ReignFayth wrote:
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".

Pretty sure Mana has had much better results than Idra in the past 3 months


I think it isn't even about Idra vs. Mana. He is sitting across the room from a bunch of teammates with no results even close to Mana, and then proceeds to bash the hell out of Mana. Someone on the show should ask him "Well if you think Mana is garbage what are your thoughts on Incontrol and Machine?" Of course he won't bash them but it will clearly illustrate his hypocrisy.

Or even "Well if you think Mana is garbage what are your thoughts on yourself, Huk and Puma?". Mana beat all of them in the past few weeks LOL
SaSe fan club manager
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-19 22:18:03
August 19 2011 22:17 GMT
#29637
On August 20 2011 05:32 Choboo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 03:49 Duravi wrote:
On August 20 2011 03:37 ReignFayth wrote:
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".

Pretty sure Mana has had much better results than Idra in the past 3 months


I think it isn't even about Idra vs. Mana. He is sitting across the room from a bunch of teammates with no results even close to Mana, and then proceeds to bash the hell out of Mana. Someone on the show should ask him "Well if you think Mana is garbage what are your thoughts on Incontrol and Machine?" Of course he won't bash them but it will clearly illustrate his hypocrisy.

Or even "Well if you think Mana is garbage what are your thoughts on yourself, Huk and Puma?". Mana beat all of them in the past few weeks LOL

He will naturally come up with some excuse, probably something with "abusive" thrown in there. I'd love to know which Protoss/Terran he doesn't consider abusive. Apparently Zerg is the race which only true heroes play because it's so hard and underpowered, despite him picking up Zerg when it was overpowered as fuck with 1 supply/2 armor roaches.
nvs.
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada3609 Posts
August 19 2011 22:35 GMT
#29638
On August 20 2011 04:16 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 03:41 Werk wrote:
On August 20 2011 03:37 ReignFayth wrote:
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".

Pretty sure Mana has had much better results than Idra in the past 3 months


I don't think "pretty sure" cuts it when everyone else is posting facts. I have to side with the people supporting idra on this one


Lets break down the last 8-10 weeks:

Mana:

- won several european online cups.
- qualified for IEM Guangzhou as one of 4 players in europe
- third at Shoutcraft Invitational (beat Kas and White-Ra, lost to Morrow)
- placed third in IPL2 where he beat Thorzain and Idra (!)
- placed second in Assembly where he beat Huk, Nada, Brat_ok...
- is Top4 so far in an impressive run at IEM Cologne where he beat Puma, Stephano, Moonglade...


Idra:
- placed Top10 at MLG Anaheim where the only notable players he beat were Sheth and maybe Sjow...
- second at "Oddysey cup" where he lost to the only other top progamer who participated, Sen. (third was Axslav...)


Even if I forgot something on Idra's side I think it's safe to say that Mana has had better results lately. There is your facts.


More MaNa. NA will never give him any love it seems. =(
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
August 19 2011 22:38 GMT
#29639
He was an SC1 player so of course I like mana =]
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
August 19 2011 22:48 GMT
#29640
On August 20 2011 04:16 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 03:41 Werk wrote:
On August 20 2011 03:37 ReignFayth wrote:
On August 20 2011 01:59 Soap wrote:
IdrA won a MLG, a IPL and made to GSL Code S Ro8, according to Liquipedia MaNa never won anything significant. It's up to MaNa to prove him wrong. This argument is a waste of time anyway, given recent tournament results no one outside of Korea can be considered "good".

Pretty sure Mana has had much better results than Idra in the past 3 months


I don't think "pretty sure" cuts it when everyone else is posting facts. I have to side with the people supporting idra on this one


Lets break down the last 8-10 weeks:

Mana:

- won several european online cups.
- qualified for IEM Guangzhou as one of 4 players in europe
- third at Shoutcraft Invitational (beat Kas and White-Ra, lost to Morrow)
- placed third in IPL2 where he beat Thorzain and Idra (!)
- placed second in Assembly where he beat Huk, Nada, Brat_ok...
- is Top4 so far in an impressive run at IEM Cologne where he beat Puma, Stephano, Moonglade...


Idra:
- placed Top10 at MLG Anaheim where the only notable players he beat were Sheth and maybe Sjow...
- second at "Oddysey cup" where he lost to the only other top progamer who participated, Sen. (third was Axslav...)


Even if I forgot something on Idra's side I think it's safe to say that Mana has had better results lately. There is your facts.

LOL, oh wow now we're using incredibly small time periods to try and prove a point like it isnt completely fallacious? wow.
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