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On October 19 2010 04:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Why the FUCK do I need to accomplish more than Select to say on a podcast that he did 1 build in a bunch of TvP's and it won't carry him forever? It was fucking common sense but obviously it was worth noting that a player who did EXTREMELY WELL did so in a mu where he did the same thing over and over... obviously it is MY JOB to say more than "well he did fantastic. And I am in no position to say anything otherwise because he has done more than I have in terms of results in SC2."
Well, to be fair, terrans have been abusing MMM against protoss since early beta. Unless Blizzard actually makes some balance changes in PvT to discourage MMM use or encourage other types of play, I doubt that this will change. As lots of people have noted in various places, protoss does not have a build or strategy that can force a terran off of MMM and into something else. As far as I am concerned, that's the lamest part of the PvT matchup. MMM simply works against most everything protoss has. Anything that MMM does not work against is easily beaten by cranking out vikings from a reactored starport, which the terran will already have.
In short, I see no reason why select can't keep whoring his one build, executing it well, and succeeding in the future in tournaments against top protoss players.
On October 19 2010 04:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
It gets REAL OLD being on a podcast I do for fun (no compensation, no obligation etc) and catching shit from people who literally cannot pull their own head from their own ass.
Honestly, you're the best thing going on that podcast. Ignore all the retards. Besides, the podcast is free advertising for you and your coaching. Don't pretend that being there doesn't pay for itself.
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On October 19 2010 04:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
In the future, I might even fucking criticize fruitdealer. I've already teased IdrA. I call NonY a robot and he has "done more than" me as well. Can we fucking PLEASE stop pretending that in order to discuss players on a talk show in a less than glaringly positive fashion we must be better than them? Nobody tells Bob Costas to shut the fuck up even though he has NEVER PLAYED ANY OF THESE SPORTS. Nobody dials into a local radio show when they are bitching about Seahawk management and goes "YOU'VE NEVER MANAGED A NFL TEAM SHUT THE FUCK UP."
You're ignoring a lot of what has been said in the last few pages. A lot of the people 'complaining' aren't doing so because you they dont think you are qualified to have an opinion on the topic. They are complaining because they don't tune in to hear a relatively one sided bashing of a decent guy. Teasing idra and nony, people you have known for years, is nowhere near the same as teasing select, someone you don't really know and an outsider to the community with no voice to explain or defend himself.
It doesn't matter how far removed we are from the 'situation'. We listen to the podcast and we have every right to explain why we might not approve of some of the discussion that occurs on the podcast You can't possibly think that because we aren't personally involved with the event that we are out of place to relay our impressions of the podcast. You need to take the criticism with the understanding that we aren't deeply involved, not the other way around. The podcast is made for the people that aren't involved to listen to and comment on. The podcast is not made for your self expression and emotional liberty.
So why is it in eSports when I make a pretty god damn obvious remark and criticism like "hey, playing 1 build in a mu won't get you much further.. people will adapt" becomes some giant flame from an inferior player?
Again, if you've read a lot of the criticisms (which you clearly haven't) you'd know the problem is not what you are saying, it's how/when/where you're saying it. As a completely unbiased listener, at the absolute least, I got the impression that you felt SelecT didn't deserve his success at the tournament. That I got that impression is an indisputable fact. If you get worked up about people misinterpreting what you are saying and you find that people are suspecting hostility when you didn't mean to put any forward, the onus is on you to control your tone of voice and the impression you leave on people.
Believe it or not, intelligent adults are capable of getting an impression from a conversation that goes deeper than the words being said. Don't expect a few insincere and flat compliments towards select to outweigh the disproportionate amount of criticism he received. Saying "oh he's a great player" in your public relations voice and then claiming with vehemence that his playstyle is inadequate and that his successes in the TL opens means little isn't going to make anyone think you have positive feelings towards him.
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god damit everytime this thread gets bumped i think the next podcast is uploaded 
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Ignore the whiny babies, InC, your honesty helps roll the podcast nicely =)
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
sigur missing the mark somewhere around 30x and all the while claiming I don't read or comprehend what was actually said... in essence: 100% standard internet response to argument "you don't/can't read and if you did/do you don't understand what was said.
Sorry sigur. I actually tease everyone on the show. name 1 person I have discussed in 100% serious mode with 0 jokes involved. Gotcha. Now tell me how you got the impression that I said select didn't deserve his success when I can LITERALLY QUOTE MYSELF (lol) as saying "he won TL Open1/2 and took 2nd at MLG nobody can take that away from him." When I speak about future events and LITERALLY CLARIFY that I am talking about hypothetical matches with huk/kiwi in the future and how the exact same bo shouldn't continue to work does that equate to me saying he didn't deserve to win or w/e?
It baffles me how you can make a giant ass post about nothing sensible.
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Baltimore, USA22261 Posts
On October 19 2010 05:30 SiguR wrote:
The podcast is not made for your self expression and emotional liberty.
That's exactly what it's for. That's why most people are listening to it.
And SiguR - You want to talk about tone, your post alone is the perfect example of someone holding a snide and shitty opinion and letting it come through in a subtle-yet-obvious fashion. Tell me that was for the irony, right? -_-
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I think day9 once said that the biggest step forward he took as a caster and "community personality" was not responding directly to criticism that was posted on the Internet. Just throwing that out there...
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On October 19 2010 05:30 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2010 04:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Why the FUCK do I need to accomplish more than Select to say on a podcast that he did 1 build in a bunch of TvP's and it won't carry him forever? It was fucking common sense but obviously it was worth noting that a player who did EXTREMELY WELL did so in a mu where he did the same thing over and over... obviously it is MY JOB to say more than "well he did fantastic. And I am in no position to say anything otherwise because he has done more than I have in terms of results in SC2."
Well, to be fair, terrans have been abusing MMM against protoss since early beta. Unless Blizzard actually makes some balance changes in PvT to discourage MMM use or encourage other types of play, I doubt that this will change. As lots of people have noted in various places, protoss does not have a build or strategy that can force a terran off of MMM and into something else. As far as I am concerned, that's the lamest part of the PvT matchup. MMM simply works against most everything protoss has. Anything that MMM does not work against is easily beaten by cranking out vikings from a reactored starport, which the terran will already have. In short, I see no reason why select can't keep whoring his one build, executing it well, and succeeding in the future in tournaments against top protoss players. Show nested quote +On October 19 2010 04:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
It gets REAL OLD being on a podcast I do for fun (no compensation, no obligation etc) and catching shit from people who literally cannot pull their own head from their own ass.
Honestly, you're the best thing going on that podcast. Ignore all the retards. Besides, the podcast is free advertising for you and your coaching. Don't pretend that being there doesn't pay for itself.
My criticism wasn't with MMM play.. it was that he literally did the same bo which was 2 fact 1 reactor 1 tech with scouting reaper into FE/mass drops/runaround MMM play. There are countless other variations, builds and strategies players execute to high degrees of success. It isn't like SC2 was solved by select and this is literally the only way to play. Hence me saying he needs to diversify his play for future matches with top players.
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On October 19 2010 04:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Have you listened to previous podcasts?
Do I strike you as the kind of guy who sees a players do a build in 7 mu's and goes "oh wow it worked so well. I am so glad for his 2nd place finish. Hopefully some day I can find that build and finish in 2nd place!"
OR
Do you think I'd be the kind of guy WHO LITERALLY SAID(says) "He did extremely well and nobody can take that away from him. But if he does the same thing in every game good players will adapt and it will stop working." I go on to explain that Huk/Kiwi are ever evolving and I don't think they simply have no answer for what select did. WHY THE HELL is it so important we stick to simply 100% commending Select for taking 2nd off the back of a single build in TvP? I said it was awesome and then I moved on to discuss a criticism... as it is a talk show.
All the "flaming" bullshit and "incontrol isn't as good he has no right to talk about him blah blah" is such utter trash I will literally sit here for 5 minutes and thor smash any idiot that even suggests otherwise. If this was a news cast then 1000000000000000000000% YES it would be completely wrong of me to say anything of that level. But this is a personality generated podcast about opinionated SC2 players IN THE KNOW talking about other SC2 players/events etc. I am sick and tired of doing 100% what I am supposed to be doing ON THE SIDE (8-10 hours of training/coaching a day) to do a podcast and hear people complain that incontrol was less than positive about X.
btw he will change up his play and he will do fantastically well as he is a fantastic player. I merely made conversation on something that nony/idra agreed with and any other player worth a fucking grain of salt would identify about as fast as they'd blink.
I don't understand why you even bother to reexplain and reiterate what you've already said, I don't know, three plus times? You've left nothing open for interpretation. If people are going to continuously try to misinterpret what you've stated, then to let them have their crazy theories of what iNcontroL REALLY means. I've made the mistake of skimming through this thread when I go to download the podcast, and it makes me embarrassed to be a member of the Starcraft community.
iNcontroL, I'd like to say I'm a huge fan of what you do. What amazes me is your ability to be a top tier player, a coach, a fit human being, maintain a relationship, and be an awesome person in general. You're no Idra, but you're the type of person pro gaming needs to grow and flourish.
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I have a Question for INC or anyone else who has seen Select play on a regular basis. Do you think Select can adapt along with Kiwi and Huk and Tyler by abusing another build as soon as this one wears out? Or is it going to be the same effect as Lastshadow (select obviously better is way better) and it comes down to his play style which once figured out while mean he will lag behind his fellow North American pro’s and is the latter what you think will happen and thus are advising him to change now? At least that is how I read your comments regarding him.
p.s play your lastsahdow card! I.e. you said that about him allining every game that people where going to adapt to it and he wouldn’t do well in D.C and you where right.
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On October 19 2010 05:37 Dental Floss wrote:
I think day9 once said that the biggest step forward he took as a caster and "community personality" was not responding directly to criticism that was posted on the Internet. Just throwing that out there...
Yea Inc, I think you should really take this approach. You focus on responding too much to the idiots, that you don't really acknowledge the people who agree with you and/or are not idiots. As you said, the things you said are facts, Select really did use just 1 TvP build to take 2nd place at MLG, if people want to bitch about you bringing that up that should really just be their own problem, you shouldn't take it personally that some Select fanboy has beef with you.
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ah man, we need more nony. his voice is so sexy.
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There should be a joke mini-cast during Blizzcon where you only do a cast that will be entirely inoffensive to everyone on the forums.
JP: "So what do you guys think of Select?"
Incontrol: "He is a Terran player who placed second at MLG DC."
Tyler: "I agree with Incontrol."
JP: "Sean, any comments?"
Day9: "I believe he is originally from South Korea, but now lives in the United States."
*Awkward silence*
JP: Aaaaaalriiiiiiight… Let's move on to our next topic."
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Having dealt with public relations before, I can say its very taxing as you tend to focus on the negative rather than the positive. People who like it tend to mention it either as to avoid being brown nosers so you get stuck with the most negative random comments made by angsty thirteen y-olds from across the globe.
This State of the Game is for free and wouldn't be the same without InControl. He's smart, intelligent, can lead a conversation, do good arguments and just plain fun to hear. Please keep doing it and just avoid these .. they really arent worth your time.
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On October 19 2010 05:44 Mortecian wrote:
Having dealt with public relations before, I can say its very taxing as you tend to focus on the negative rather than the positive. People who like it tend to mention it either as to avoid being brown nosers so you get stuck with the most negative random comments made by angsty thirteen y-olds from across the globe.
This State of the Game is for free and wouldn't be the same without InControl. He's smart, intelligent, can lead a conversation, do good arguments and just plain fun to hear. Please keep doing it and just avoid these .. they really arent worth your time.
To be honest though, now that I think about it, all the drama caused by Incontrol haters really raises awareness of this podcast, this thread never drops below like top 20 in this forum.
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Sigur what the fuck was that post about, I'm sorry but you come across as one of those people who try sound clever yet the core of the argument is actually utter trash and just made up.
Its a fucking talkshow. people will have opinions. you don't need to be buds with someone to have a legitimate opinion on them.
Get the stick out of your ass PLEASE
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Incontrol rules. That's all I have to say.
It's like the Matrix, the machines first made the Matrix a perfect world and humans rejected it because humans could not comprehend a world where there was no fighting and no bad things. So they then made a world more realistic and it was accepted and loved by the humans under their control. In the same sense Incontrol (and others on the cast) bring opinions that clash with others and cause a stir, not necessarily out of bad faith or malevolence but because he isn't afraid to speak his mind. If he was all nice and didn't say what he meant the cast would be boring because no one wants to hear everyone be nice to each other all the time, it's not entertaining, which is what they do this cast for, to entertain us.
That's probably a piss poor analogy. Oh well.
It's refreshing to hear these pros in a relaxed element and speaking their minds rather than a sanitary interview sort of environment. That's the draw of the cast and I'm pretty sure most of us wouldn't have it any other way.
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On October 19 2010 05:30 SiguR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2010 04:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
In the future, I might even fucking criticize fruitdealer. I've already teased IdrA. I call NonY a robot and he has "done more than" me as well. Can we fucking PLEASE stop pretending that in order to discuss players on a talk show in a less than glaringly positive fashion we must be better than them? Nobody tells Bob Costas to shut the fuck up even though he has NEVER PLAYED ANY OF THESE SPORTS. Nobody dials into a local radio show when they are bitching about Seahawk management and goes "YOU'VE NEVER MANAGED A NFL TEAM SHUT THE FUCK UP."
You're ignoring a lot of what has been said in the last few pages. A lot of the people 'complaining' aren't doing so because you they dont think you are qualified to have an opinion on the topic. They are complaining because they don't tune in to hear a relatively one sided bashing of a decent guy. Teasing idra and nony, people you have known for years, is nowhere near the same as teasing select, someone you don't really know and an outsider to the community with no voice to explain or defend himself. It doesn't matter how far removed we are from the 'situation'. We listen to the podcast and we have every right to explain why we might not approve of some of the discussion that occurs on the podcast You can't possibly think that because we aren't personally involved with the event that we are out of place to relay our impressions of the podcast. You need to take the criticism with the understanding that we aren't deeply involved, not the other way around. The podcast is made for the people that aren't involved to listen to and comment on. The podcast is not made for your self expression and emotional liberty. Show nested quote +
So why is it in eSports when I make a pretty god damn obvious remark and criticism like "hey, playing 1 build in a mu won't get you much further.. people will adapt" becomes some giant flame from an inferior player?
Again, if you've read a lot of the criticisms (which you clearly haven't) you'd know the problem is not what you are saying, it's how/when/where you're saying it. As a completely unbiased listener, at the absolute least, I got the impression that you felt SelecT didn't deserve his success at the tournament. That I got that impression is an indisputable fact. If you get worked up about people misinterpreting what you are saying and you find that people are suspecting hostility when you didn't mean to put any forward, the onus is on you to control your tone of voice and the impression you leave on people. Believe it or not, intelligent adults are capable of getting an impression from a conversation that goes deeper than the words being said. Don't expect a few insincere and flat compliments towards select to outweigh the disproportionate amount of criticism he received. Saying "oh he's a great player" in your public relations voice and then claiming with vehemence that his playstyle is inadequate and that his successes in the TL opens means little isn't going to make anyone think you have positive feelings towards him.
Your justification for Incontrol being too harsh on select comes down to only the intonation of his voice, and how you chose to interpret it. If I said that the language of your posts make you sound like you're easily offended and very stubborn about your impressions of people you've never even met, you're not responsible for how I think of you because I know you to a very limited capacity. Like many people have said, Incontrol was asked a question and he answered it, and all the non-incontrols in the room also agreed, including Idra who didn't lose to select and therefore has no reason to act butthurt (unless his tone of voice was also unacceptable to your ears). If the only acceptable answer was "he got second place, that's better than 62 of the 64 people there" then why would a podcast need guests and questions? (maybe Idra could be the only guest, because he's the only one qualified to speak about other players since he did better. Though I guess he'd have to leave when they start talking about people who placed higher than RO32 at GSL)
Incontrol is not responsible for how you think of him, and he shouldn't stop speaking his mind for the sake of a vocal minority. The podcast is free and all the guests do it as a service to the community, and are therefore not at all accountable to you. It's perfectly within your power to not listen to this podcast if the tone of everyone's voice makes you imagine them to be condescending douchebags...how you think of them is not their responsibility because you could think whatever you want
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Not gonna put my head out there so shit on top of me but I think it would've been nice to hear any of the protoss players there that did loose to him how they are planing on trying to deal with it in the future or what weakness do you think that play style has.
Not gonna lie, as a protoss player myself I was expecting some insight into that specific subject or hell, if you all just feel like simply playing better, macro/micro wise was enough of a change to get a win.
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Can we get a separate thread for overly sensitive people to attack incontrol in? Keep this one for actual discussion of the show.
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EPT
