EPT2. Replace neural parasite with spawn broodling.
Z v T: Current situation and comparison to BW - Page 44
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Xizorz
93 Posts
2. Replace neural parasite with spawn broodling. | ||
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toadstool
Australia421 Posts
On August 19 2010 03:55 st3roids wrote: Make marauders cost 150-50 + 3 supply , having same supply and cost with roaches stalkers and zealots is laughable Lower marine dps there u go , Every time I read a post like this a little piece inside of me dies. If it were this simple then we could all be balancers for SC2. | ||
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st3roids
Greece538 Posts
On August 19 2010 07:41 toadstool wrote: Every time I read a post like this a little piece inside of me dies. If it were this simple then we could all be balancers for SC2. cause a unit that kills structures in few hits , has tank hps , can slow and does ridiculus dps in armored units should be free | ||
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Calidus
150 Posts
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Kyouya
Mexico318 Posts
And let's face it, nydus worms are good in lower leagues, a good terran player will kill your worm before you can do anything with it. Meanwhile, a terran can harras you with reapers, drops, shees, HELLIONS, siege in cliffs, vikings, cloaked ghost, thors, practically every unit the terran have... and what do a zerg have? infested terrans!? haha. God i love zerg since SC1, but it's true, the "new" zerg are just a bunch of cute and docile alien/insects. The game was pretty good when the roach was 1 food, but oh no, a maxed zerg army it's just so powerful. AND im not saying "OMG NERF THE TERRAN" NO, i like them, the terran is the most perfect race in SC2 (followed by protoss), it's just zerg lacks polish a race bad designed because was made quickly. | ||
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hmmmmm
1 Post
Just because it seems Zerg is a little behind Terran at the moment, doesn't mean it won't balance out once more and more strategies are created. The Korean e-sports scene is proof of that. I think it's that the BW zerg players aren't used to the different style of play the Zerg offers now. I think it's wrong to compare BW with SC2. Sure they have the same races, but that doesn't mean the games should be played the same way. If you wanted the units and style of play to remain the same you can stick to BW. | ||
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Darkn3ss
United States717 Posts
SC2 was perfect in my dream! I dreamed the following: -Roaches 1 food(supply). 90HP. 75/25 (cost). No armor (light). 16 damage. 3 range. This made them awesome, since you could avoid being roflstomped by marauders. Required a tad bit more micro when fighting hellions tho! Oh, and they came with speed upgrade (no speed research required). -Hydra 2 food(supply). 110HP. 100/50 (cost). 1 Base armor (armored). 10 (+6 vs massive). 4 base range (5 - upgradable). Upgradable speed. This made hydras slightly more of an anti-air/massive unit (such as colossi, thors, BC's, BL's, ultras) while keeping relatively decent DPS against other units and, also, gave it a little more survivability. Last but not least... [hold for applause] -Lurker 2 food(supply). 140HP. 50/100 (cost). 1 Base armor (armored/massive). 10 (+10 vs light) w/ splash. 6 range (no upgrades). No burrow upgrade required to attack. This, iconic, unit from brood war was never scrapped!!! Blizz, apparently, forgot to add it -.- Now, protoss and terran don't have uncontested map control all throughout the game. Lurkers posed a threat to 4 gating protoss and a terran that just spammed marine/marauder. No longer could you just 1-base marine/marauder spam (or zealot/stalker/sentry) and roll over zerg in a single 1-a move. Awesome dream, guys! I felt like I was ALMOST back in BW... I mean there was no muta micro and spine crawlers still get squished by marauders but at least turrets went back to their "original" 20(EXPLOSIVE) damage, meaning they do 15(10?) to mutas. (Were mutas light or medium in bw?! Don't remember.) This actually allowed muta harass to be somewhat effective until the first thor arrived (so once again, no dumb spam of rine/rauder, unless you've got a decent micro vs mutas.) Oh and Planetary Fortresses didn't exist in my dream! ^^ I wish Blizz got dreams like that once in a while... | ||
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MasterAsia
United States170 Posts
On August 19 2010 12:12 Darkn3ss wrote: Just cuz I just woke up and had a dream about SC2 I decided to post this. SC2 was perfect in my dream! I dreamed the following: -Roaches 1 food(supply). 90HP. 75/25 (cost). No armor (light). 16 damage. 3 range. This made them awesome, since you could avoid being roflstomped by marauders. Required a tad bit more micro when fighting hellions tho! Oh, and they came with speed upgrade (no speed research required). -Hydra 2 food(supply). 110HP. 100/50 (cost). 1 Base armor (armored). 10 (+6 vs massive). 4 base range (5 - upgradable). Upgradable speed. This made hydras slightly more of an anti-air/massive unit (such as colossi, thors, BC's, BL's, ultras) while keeping relatively decent DPS against other units and, also, gave it a little more survivability. Last but not least... [hold for applause] -Lurker 2 food(supply). 140HP. 50/100 (cost). 1 Base armor (armored/massive). 10 (+10 vs light) w/ splash. 6 range (no upgrades). No burrow upgrade required to attack. This, iconic, unit from brood war was never scrapped!!! Blizz, apparently, forgot to add it -.- Now, protoss and terran don't have uncontested map control all throughout the game. Lurkers posed a threat to 4 gating protoss and a terran that just spammed marine/marauder. No longer could you just 1-base marine/marauder spam (or zealot/stalker/sentry) and roll over zerg in a single 1-a move. Awesome dream, guys! I felt like I was ALMOST back in BW... I mean there was no muta micro and spine crawlers still get squished by marauders but at least turrets went back to their "original" 20(EXPLOSIVE) damage, meaning they do 15(10?) to mutas. (Were mutas light or medium in bw?! Don't remember.) This actually allowed muta harass to be somewhat effective until the first thor arrived (so once again, no dumb spam of rine/rauder, unless you've got a decent micro vs mutas.) Oh and Planetary Fortresses didn't exist in my dream! ^^ I wish Blizz got dreams like that once in a while... Planetary Fortresses is totally a nonsense. The reason why Terran has Tank and Thor and every other cost efficient unit should be they can not expand easily and safely. Think about why in BW terran does not have static defence (anti-ground) tower and have to put army to defend any expansions. That is, if I have 6 zerglings, I can kill any terran base without army guarding. Now if I have an army, I can't kill a Terran base even without an army guarding. Now by comparing zerg and terran, i think it's easier for terran to expand than for zerg. | ||
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kidcrash
United States623 Posts
On August 19 2010 13:47 MasterAsia wrote: Planetary Fortresses is totally a nonsense. The reason why Terran has Tank and Thor and every other cost efficient unit should be they can not expand easily and safely. Think about why in BW terran does not have static defence (anti-ground) tower and have to put army to defend any expansions. That is, if I have 6 zerglings, I can kill any terran base without army guarding. Now if I have an army, I can't kill a Terran base even without an army guarding. Now by comparing zerg and terran, i think it's easier for terran to expand than for zerg. Maybe giving each additional repairing scv diminishing returns would help alleviate the problem of auto repair on things like thor and planetary fortress. Now I understand this wouldn't make too much sense in that one scv only repairs for 1 HP at a time and you can't get any smaller than 1 without being a fraction. They'd probably have to use a time based diminishing returns so that if the first scv repaired 1 HP for every 1 second, the 2nd scv only repairs 1 HP for every 2 seconds and the 3rd scv only repairs 1 HP for every 3 seconds and so on. If one whole second is too large of an increment they could probably use milliseconds for a more precise and reasonable increment. Just a suggestion in fixing repair mechanics.. any thoughts? | ||
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Darkn3ss
United States717 Posts
On August 19 2010 14:08 kidcrash wrote: Maybe giving each additional repairing scv diminishing returns would help alleviate the problem of auto repair on things like thor and planetary fortress. Now I understand this wouldn't make too much sense in that one scv only repairs for 1 HP at a time and you can't get any smaller than 1 without being a fraction. They'd probably have to use a time based diminishing returns so that if the first scv repaired 1 HP for every 1 second, the 2nd scv only repairs 1 HP for every 2 seconds and the 3rd scv only repairs 1 HP for every 3 seconds and so on. If one whole second is too large of an increment they could probably use milliseconds for a more precise and reasonable increment. Just a suggestion in fixing repair mechanics.. any thoughts? Or how about scrap the PF altogether??? xD Thors should be smaller or only allow like 2 scvs repairing it... MAX! I mean thors are the ULTRAS of Terran army... except they have a special ability, range, splash vs air, insane damage and can be repaired. Lol Yes, Ultras are immune to stuns/mind control (NP? ROFL!) other than that.......... | ||
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LightYears
39 Posts
On August 19 2010 07:51 Calidus wrote: As a Terran player i hope they do nerfs in multiple stages, ie nerf tank damage, wait a month, then if need be nerf thor damage etc etc. This may not be what a lot of players(mainly zerg) want to here but is the best to make sure in the long term we have a balanced game. Dont offer ridiculous changes - what's wrong with Tank damage and thor damage? Didnt they get nerfed in beta, tank dmg? Here is what I could offer as a Terran player: - Make units move in an army - with distance between them, same was in war3 and SC1 I think, not a meat ball (the 1 good point of the OP) - Resource requirements like +25 more Gas on Techlab - Later Tier for Thor (upgrade or requires Fusion Core) - Later Tier Tank (requires Armory) Going beyond such changes is retarded. I think some of my offers are also wayy too harsh but I wouldnt mind having them. | ||
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kingcomrade
United States115 Posts
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
My last 5 games went like this: By the way the games are not in order since I don't remember correctly, but I didn't make this stuff up. Game 1: Terran, Blistering Sands, went Proxy Rax, had first reaper in my base when queen was half finished (this was 13 vespin 14 pool), gg. Game 2: Random, got Terran, Kulas Ravine, Opened with techlab rax so I prepared for reapers, put 2 spine crawlers up in my base. No reapers came so I tried to sac an overlord but it was shot down by 2 marines before I even saw a building. sacced ling in front of his base but only saw the one techlab rax. I assumed now it's an m&m push of some sort and started building banelings and mass lings, but he just had too many units and I couldn't outproduce him since my eco was kinda retarded from me trying to prepare for reapers (not very retarded but I had trouble getting enough lings with minerals and then banelings). gg. Game 3: Terran, on Metalopolis. I figured hey this is a huge map and if it's cross position I may get lucky so let's try hatch first. So I did 15 hatch 14 Pool. I scouted and we were indeed crossed, but I saw techlab on his rax so I assumed reapers. At that point though I didn't have mins for both queens and spine crawlers so I tried to defend with queens as good as possible. Turns out he did 3rax reapers and with 2 hatch it was GG. Wasn't able to get speedlings and enough spinecrawlers (there were 2 up in each base but with 8 reapers and more incoming, yeah u can guess how that ended) in time. Game 4: Random again, again Terran, lol, Scrap Station this time. I automatically opened 13 pool 14 hatch since it's still an OK build in zvp and of course in zvz. My drone was in his base and he just had his baracks with no addon, pumped out 2 marines and killed my drone. OK, that opening was pretty useless but I figured maybe I can turn it around, at least he doesn't use reapers now. I expanded and droned up decently. I sacked an overlord and a ling in front of his base and was able to scout 1 baracks with reactor and one factory with reactor, so I assumed some mass rine / hellion push, I reacted by putting down 4 spine crawlers in front of my choke (already had spread creep of course) since I didn't have that many units and started to produce mass lings and banelings. Then when the baneling nest was just finished, suddenly he dropped in the back of my base with 2 medivacs with 2 hellions and like 10 rines or something lol, my spine crawlers were miles away and I had like 20 lings only -> GG. At least that opponent tried to calm me down by saying that I shouldn't be angry/sad, ZvT is imba but in turn TvP is totally imba for protoss (lmao). Like that's any use for me, besides being bogus. Game 5 was totally awesome, cause I won. Erm yeah it was a Terran, on Blistering Sands. I scouted his rax, he was pumping a marine but then added techlab (guess his gas timing didn't work out), I already had a queen and two spines up when his first reaper arrived, so that was of no use. I just droned up madly since he couldn't do anything against 2 spines and queens. He attacked my pool so I had to build a third spine crawler. Then I switched to lings/roaches with speed upgrades on both and got in through his backdoor. To my surprise he didn't have many units and I owned him. I was really happy and was thinking like: Wow, 2rax reaper probably cripples his economy very much. Then I watched the replay: He had >500 mins and >200 gas soon after he had his fourth reaper, the whole time, probably since he needed to reaper micro. OK, at least I can win if my opponent can't even get the basic macro done. edit: I just wanted to add that this simply is really really heart breaking. You go into those games with a positive attitude and it's just the same shit over and over again. I can't switch races either since I love Zerg and playing Toss/Terran simply isn't fun for me. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
Just get rid of the "14 pool (or whatever you are thinking there) is best" and "always get a queen" mantras and try something totally new. | ||
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Vengeaner
Russian Federation28 Posts
On August 19 2010 19:26 Rabiator wrote: Maybe all the screwed up Zerg players should start experimenting with super fast aggession again? Look at Day[9] daily 165 (the first match) and try the same against a Terran. The key part for Terrans being able to do what they do is that they are *safe* behind their precious wall and can do aggression however they want. If you go the 10pool, 10gas, 13(6 Zerglings)baneling nest way you will have very early aggression and will be able to blow up the wall and have free reign inside with your Zerglings. The main point is that YOU are the aggressor and will determine when it ends. Since Zerg can do expand / build Drones much faster than the Terran your economy can kick in faster than his and if you get a sufficient lead you should win easily. Terrans usually have their Barracks done at around 15 food and then start to build their first Marine. You would have your first Zerglings outside his base by then and if five of them turn into Banelings you have enough to bust in with one or two supply depots destroyed. Just get rid of the "14 pool (or whatever you are thinking there) is best" and "always get a queen" mantras and try something totally new. You really should not compare ZvZ and ZvT... because Terran got a wall. my 5 banelings break 1 supply depot and i run into his base with.... 3 zerglings? And reaper will come earlier than zergs finishes the morph.... You cant evade building the queen because she is the only unit to hold off reapers at very start (you cant get roaches fast enough - if you get your economy is screwed once again) If you want to discuss rushes - they are effective if T is not prepared. Some players abuse T1 aggression extremely well, for example Dimaga, but if it is scouted and prepared you are totally screwed, cause Z cant pump up units and Drone in same time, you have either not enough one or another at ay given time at the beginning imo. But who knows, maybe someone will develop new beginnings for Z? | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
Early aggression vs Terran doesn't work because their walls are too strong. | ||
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AntiHack
Switzerland553 Posts
 "OMG now all races are 1a!" "W8!! They said terran is imba!" GO TERRAN!!! | ||
Waxangel
United States33502 Posts
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AntiHack
Switzerland553 Posts
On August 19 2010 21:19 Waxangel wrote: By the way, the translated version of this post has become a pretty hot topic within the Korean SC II community, and is getting some rave reviews Source plz | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On August 19 2010 21:19 Waxangel wrote: By the way, the translated version of this post has become a pretty hot topic within the Korean SC II community, and is getting some rave reviews that's really really cool! I hope they credit MasterAsia and tl.net for it! | ||
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