EPTZerg scouting flaw - Page 9
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yomi
United States773 Posts
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Gryffes
United Kingdom763 Posts
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taintmachine
United States431 Posts
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WCH
Canada239 Posts
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
On August 14 2010 11:40 hadoken5 wrote: EDIT 1: A lot of players are saying don't send your overlord from the front. I never ever do that. I usuall send my overlord(s) to the side of his base. I do that because I'm a DECENT zerg player. Now if I were facing a DECENT Terran player, then he would know this and would place his anti-air forces on the side ESPECIALLY if he is doing a cheesy build! More and more players are doing this! EDIT 2: Go look at Chocobo's post on page 4. I think he answers many of your questions, even if they are just recapping my points EDIT 3: Another possible solution to this is to have overseers available from an evo chamber. Not too imba imo because they are still pretty expensive early game. EDIT 4; another possible solution is for me to stop QQing instead of trying to break zerg by over-buffing something that doesn't need to be buffed in the first place | ||
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Rakanishu2
United States475 Posts
On August 14 2010 11:56 Linden wrote: suggestion: make it possible to get overseers with evo chamber instead of lair Great idea | ||
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FJ
United Kingdom321 Posts
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On August 18 2010 07:15 WCH wrote: Zering scouting is fine, your just doing it wrong. Sending your overlord way too early, sometimes you don't even need to know what hes doing as zerg, Its the same old same old. Hellions, mmm push, tanks, banshees, drops no thats not how it works. if a terran walls off u wont have an idea on what he is doing and if u dont scout then u will just be making stupid wild guesses. if u see he has a factory with a tech lab at his wall and u take a wild guess and say that he is mmm pushing and u try to prepare for that mmm push that will never come and he techs to banshees then u will get owned hard by just 1 banshee. its important for zerg to get as early of a scout in as possible against terran because terran can tech fast. but usually u wont get a scout in unless u send ur 10 drone in and usually all u will see is 1 barack and maybe 1 or 2 gas before his first marine kills ur drone scout. and after that it will be impossible to scout him without a overlord. | ||
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yakitate304
United States655 Posts
Zerg: Spawning Pool --> Evo Chamber --> Spore Colonies (semi-mobile) & Overseers (mobile) Terran: Barracks --> Orbital Command --> Scan Barracks --> Engineering Bay --> Missile Turret (immobile) Barracks --> Factory --> Starport --> Tech Lab --> Raven (mobile) Protoss: Forge --> Photon Cannon (immobile) Gateway --> CyCore --> Robo Facility --> Observers (mobile, cloaked) (Am I forgetting any? I left out Fungal/EMP but they are also detectors in a sense) In my opinion, even as a (bad) Zerg player who feels that the race needs a little kick in the pants, giving the Zerg 100% detection capabilities after only two mineral-only buildings in a tech pattern is a little unfair. | ||
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MamiyaOtaru
United States1687 Posts
On August 18 2010 07:47 yakitate304 wrote: BW was super "unfair" that way and it didn't really harm anything(bad) Zerg player who feels that the race needs a little kick in the pants, giving the Zerg 100% detection capabilities after only two mineral-only buildings in a tech pattern is a little unfair. | ||
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
Mind: blown. Some people have brought up the detection issue... if the detection is really going to be that big of an issue, make it so that the detection is only unlocked once zerg's make a lair. | ||
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OhJesusWOW
United Kingdom127 Posts
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hadoken5
Canada519 Posts
On August 18 2010 07:51 MamiyaOtaru wrote: BW was super "unfair" that way and it didn't really harm anything How many times do I have to say it is because Zerg wasn't so "reactionary" in BW? Siege tanks didn't destroy a 200/200 army in 5 seconds in BW. Zerg in general was stronger, allowing it to make its own decisions. | ||
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XazXio
United States356 Posts
On August 14 2010 11:54 TofuD wrote: Legit suggestions: Boost unupgraded OL speed Make OL speed upgrade T1 Not so legit but might still work: Give changeling to OL (Though I doubt that would fix anything.) Restore burrow to being a cheap and quick upgrade at 50/50. (allow for early drone to burrow scout?) then build a proxy hatch in your base and kill you with spinecrawler and lings :3 | ||
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monitor
United States2408 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32084 Posts
On August 18 2010 07:01 moopie wrote: Tosses can go for hallucinated phoenix (or phoenix I suppose, though that's of less use). People usually see its research as unnecesary, but I have found it to be of great use (before combat as well), especially so if you don't let your opponent kill your hallucinated scouting unit, so he might not be aware of it. 50-100 + 100-100 for a scout with a limited time frame seems like a hell of an expense for something that has little early game use. I can't even see when you'd use it. vs T, that's better used for warps and a quick robo, which will probalby be out around the same time and you'll have that tech forever. vs Z, the gas can be better spent as well, and i'd rather save my mana for FF. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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ubiquitousnewt
9 Posts
On August 18 2010 07:13 taintmachine wrote: zerg has the best scouting in the game imo. ...I like a good laugh as much as the next guy...but, really? C'mon. Terran has *scan* for crying out loud, and the protoss have an invisible flying snoop. Zerg gets...at best a burrowed 35hp unit with a 1x1 sight range & no cloak detection, big, fat, poorly armored blimp like critters that're slower than molasses in january, and changelings that fool absolutely no one. Zerg's got pretty much no base scouting post wall-in, but pre-mutas. I am *so* tired of having to either build for what I think the Terran might throw at me, or try for some hair-raising "just in time" defense. Why the lowly zerg get this handicap that basically forces us to guess, I do not know...and no, "just expand" while he's back there teching to god knows what isn't necessarily the solution. I'll tell you what'd solve all this scouting malarky; dump changeling, and bring the old flying queen parasite ability back on overseers...and don't give medivacs a bloody cure for an expansion or two either, let the Terrans learn what it's like to sac a unit here and there, instead of just healing or patching up every single one. Spawn broodling would be nice while you're at it too, and chucking the patheticness that is infestors in favor of a defiler return, long as I'm living in complete fantasy land that involves actual balance fixes without waiting for the expansion in two years... | ||
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KillerPlague
United States1386 Posts
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Grend
1600 Posts
On August 14 2010 14:57 Chocobo wrote: I know there's fifty zillion "my stuff is underpowered, make it stronger and nerf everyone else" idiots in every single game out there, and the wait-and-see attitude is almost always a smart one. But I think sometimes it's just pretty clear that one race needs some help... zerg consistently wins less and ranks lower across the board. (IdrA is some kind of magical superbeing, I'm not certain he actually exists) guys! I just realized the horrible truth! Idra is a Terran agent, put among the Zerg ranks to make Zerg not seem up! It's so obvious, he was Terran in bw and noone can be this good with Zerg, his Terran allies obviously throw him some games so that Zerg will have one legit pro?! + Show Spoiler +  OT: if you had some more experience you could perhaps see that the units you saw, was too few, due to the extra investment into starport/banshee. And shouldn't you make queens instead of going panicden, which is the equivalent of panicturrets, both fail. | ||
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