|
On August 04 2010 17:11 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 16:47 BearsAreScary wrote:
Do people seriously think SC2 sucks because it has things that "require less skill" like MBS and unit AI that isn't unbelievably retarded.
I apologize for wanting a Game Where when I tell a group of stalkers to walk down a cliff, THEY DO IT and don't run across the whole map like idiots. man, the elitist Air from these BW people is Really outrageous.
All this "mechanical skill" and "work" that you put Into BW was literally Just learning how to effectively spam APM: telling your units to do what you originally wanted them to do over and over, bugging them out with glitches to fly across Mineral patches, make workers aTtacK faster, etc.). How high you can get your APM up is not, in itself, a good or even decent measure of skill. Maybe if SC2 Only took 50 APM to be pro at, I'd bite. But 150 APM compared to 300 and people are seriously freaking out?
SC2 requires a different set of skills, as has been SaiD. During battles, your positioning and micro are much more important. Instead of your ability to micro being determined entirely by your APM in BW, now you have to Actually do brainwork to determine what units you want to engage and how. Clicking faster no longer means a more advantageous situation. Now you must click more intelligently. You must ration your spells carefully, or wait to flank the opponent at the right time. It is precisely because you cannot salvage your lack of brainwork with a higher APM that makes SC2 as FanTastic as it is.
But whatever, the BW elitists will Never change their minds. They can have fun with their Game, I suppose. This. BW is the most overrated Game Ever. It was a fun Game with a bad interface that got abused by a bunch of Koreans that trained themselves in the art of clicking fast. Maybe this time around matches will be decided by strategy and skill and not by which monkey can click the fastest.
User was warned for this post
|
On August 04 2010 17:14 Zalfor wrote:
sc2 just doesn't have flashy units. that's the problem.
reaver, lurker, vultures with mines were all units with low hp and high damage potential.
sc2 has reaper... and thats pretty much it?
hmmm perhaps the expansions will bring out these types of units?
|
Starcraft 2 has AMAZING gameplay and it's ladder system imo is a huge success cuz now you dont have to go on iccup and get your face smashed every single game.
but
the sound effects and the lack of adrenaline and the more clunky unit looks...cough cough marauders cough....completely ruin the game for watching. the sound effects of starcraft 2 are absolutely without a question GOD AWFUL. it's the only part of the core gameplay that i HATE. but the fact that sc2 is significantly slower in pace ruins it as well. like compare the collosus to the reaver as they both have similar function. reaver did the same job cept needed a shuttle(heartpounding adrenaline cuz shuttles die easily) and it's scarabs could kill like 8 scvs INSTANTLY, also scarabs could be outran which was fun to watch.
im not saying take out the collosus and put the reaver back but starcraft 2 NEEDS these things like reavers, lurkers and spider mines that just make people scream with excitement. nobody jumps out of their chair going OOOMG! when they notice a banshee cloak and slowly fly over to the mineral line and pick of workers...one...at...a...time.
sc2 units are no fun.
if the developers TRULY wanted starcraft 2 to succeed they should either patch the game with better more original units and/or update the sound fx to at leats be as good as the original made 12 years ago? lol thats what baffles me about the sound fx is that it's 12 years more developed but sounds like garbage. watching the sound effect part of the behind the scenes DVD i inda wanted to smack the guy for ruining the game.
cuz now that im on it starcraft 2 does have banelings and hellions that deal hefty damage instantly but their sounds and their animations are incredibly BAD. and honestly the hellion needs a better model too.
i can ramble for ages on how terrible the background stuff is for starcraft 2 but the core gameplay of it is a success. is there any way to voice this to blizzard cuz i really care about the future of this game and would like it to be an fast, fun and exciting esport like BW
|
Also according to the same site BW is played just around 6% of all the gaming time of average Koreans. In this light a new pure RTS game (meaning less popular, as the most popular games we have shown are of other genres, even in Korea) - to start immediately as nearly half as popular as BW is a huge success. And this happens before even the leagues kick off, before expansions, engine optimizations for better gameplay (certainly to be expected, as Blizzard discusses issues with the top players); there's a long way to go.
Right now BW:SC2 is about 2:1 or 3:1, and BW is still the better game, but the margin is not drastic. Yes, SC2 is still not that interesting to watch, even though it's already televised competitively in Korea. Yes, battles are too quick, the macro game is not macro enough. Yes - but all those issues are fixable. And they will have to be fixed, as top players demand them in briefings with Blizzard. Remember, Blizzard had to release, pushed by Activision to meet the deadline, which doesn't mean Blizzard is anywhere nearly done with their design of the new starcraft. To me SC2 is starcraft; and as any patches of a game, there are following re-patches, some things will be reverted to earlier stages etc.
|
We're pleased to announce that within one day of being on sale, StarCraft® II sold more than 1 million copies worldwide, making it the bestselling PC game of 2010 in under 24 hours of availability. By the end of the 2nd day, it had sold a total of 1.5 million copies worldwide, setting the record for fastest-selling strategy game of all time. We want to thank everyone who turned out for the midnight launch events around the world, and everyone else who has already picked up or downloaded a copy of the game, for making StarCraft II the biggest PC game launch of the year.
lulz. /thread
User was warned for this post
|
|
|
On August 04 2010 17:11 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 16:47 BearsAreScary wrote:
Do people seriously think SC2 sucks because it has things that "require less skill" like MBS and unit AI that isn't unbelievably retarded.
I apologize for wanting a game where when I tell a group of stalkers to walk down a cliff, THEY DO IT and don't run across the whole map like idiots. Man, the elitist air from these BW people is really outrageous.
All this "mechanical skill" and "work" that you put into BW was literally just learning how to effectively spam APM: telling your units to do what you originally wanted them to do over and over, bugging them out with glitches to fly across mineral patches, make workers attack faster, etc.). How high you can get your APM up is not, in itself, a good or even decent measure of skill. Maybe if SC2 only took 50 APM to be pro at, I'd bite. But 150 APM compared to 300 and people are seriously freaking out?
SC2 requires a different set of skills, as has been said. During battles, your positioning and micro are much more important. Instead of your ability to micro being determined entirely by your APM in BW, now you have to actually do brainwork to determine what units you want to engage and how. Clicking faster no longer means a more advantageous situation. Now you must click more intelligently. You must ration your spells carefully, or wait to flank the opponent at the right time. It is precisely because you cannot salvage your lack of brainwork with a higher APM that makes SC2 as fantastic as it is.
But whatever, the BW elitists will never change their minds. They can have fun with their game, I suppose. This. BW is the most overrated game ever. It was a fun game with a bad interface that got abused by a bunch of Koreans that trained themselves in the art of clicking fast. Maybe this time around matches will be decided by strategy and skill and not by which monkey can click the fastest.
I think there is only 1 monkey out there that's worried about clicking fast and thats you. To say that BW pro scene does not involve strategy or skill is disrespectful and naive to say the least.
|
I wouldn't pay for a wow subscription just for playing starcraft2. If they made the same in europe/us, blizzards new strategy game would be a uber fail. :D
|
the game is really really bad, its blatantly imbalanced to the point were a todler can notice. but i have hope it will be balanced with coming patches or expansions, but round 1 is defiantly a massive flop in my personal opinion.
|
Considering every Korean WoW account gets SC2 for free, the amount of players is nowhere near equal to the amount of sales.
Also, popularity statistics for the month the game was in beta are being taken seriously? Let's get the statistics of August before we discuss this.
Not to say it won't be a total flop, but we need more information before we can judge it.
|
Sc2 in Korea is still open beta isn't it?
|
10387 Posts
Jung Myung Hoon (fantasy) included "Starcraft 2" as one of the things on his mind, in recent Ro16 ceremony. UpMagiC and other legendary or suspended names already switched to SC2, or are playing it actively.
Fantasy probably only listed it because he's thinking realistically, that at some point he'll have to switch to SC2 if BW dies out. As for Upmagic.. I guess you missed the newspost where there was netizen outrage about him even considering to play SC2 professionally?
and to those saying that Korea is not important to SC2.. you have got to be seriously kidding yourselves. If SC2 doesn't succeed in Korea, do you think you'll ever see anything as prestigious as the OSL, or something as glorious as a PL final on Gwanganri? Not to mention if BW was dominated by foreigners instead of Koreans, the game would be 3-5 years behind where it is now. PvZ would probably look something like Undead vs Orc.
Also this talk about Blizzard closely collaborating with top pros for balancing.. I don't think that's that great of an idea. Sure it might balance the game in its current state, but it would effectively limit strategical options and evolution imo. One great beauty of BW was that the game was essentially unchanged since 2000, and instead of going to Blizzard to whine about some unit being OP they just dealt with it and the game was balanced by maps and their own play.
Then again, when a lot of the units actually weren't that well designed, maybe it's better to just collaborate with the pros..
|
I think I've seen this pattern somewhere :
- Random dude make post about how Starcraft 2 is bad or totally awesome for X and Y reason and make a prophecy about the future.
- BW or SC2 fan boys begin to aggree/disagree with absolutly no sense of criticism
- Insults here and there
- The thread gets eventually closed
- 2 days later go to step 1
I mean, the game is good, has some flaws though. It's very popular and the hype is really big for a game this early. Korean have BW like we have the NHL... you can't ask them to be has excited has us. Let time do its job.
|
On August 04 2010 17:20 Raiznhell wrote:
Starcraft 2 has AMAZING gameplay and it's ladder system imo is a huge success cuz now you dont have to go on iccup and get your face smashed every single game.
but
the sound effects and the lack of adrenaline and the more clunky unit looks...cough cough marauders cough....completely ruin the game for watching. the sound effects of starcraft 2 are absolutely without a question GOD AWFUL. it's the only part of the core gameplay that i HATE. but the fact that sc2 is significantly slower in pace ruins it as well. like compare the collosus to the reaver as they both have similar function. reaver did the same job cept needed a shuttle(heartpounding adrenaline cuz shuttles die easily) and it's scarabs could kill like 8 scvs INSTANTLY, also scarabs could be outran which was fun to watch.
im not saying take out the collosus and put the reaver back but starcraft 2 NEEDS these things like reavers, lurkers and spider mines that just make people scream with excitement. nobody jumps out of their chair going OOOMG! when they notice a banshee cloak and slowly fly over to the mineral line and pick of workers...one...at...a...time.
sc2 units are no fun.
if the developers TRULY wanted starcraft 2 to succeed they should either patch the game with better more original units and/or update the sound fx to at leats be as good as the original made 12 years ago? lol thats what baffles me about the sound fx is that it's 12 years more developed but sounds like garbage. watching the sound effect part of the behind the scenes DVD i inda wanted to smack the guy for ruining the game.
cuz now that im on it starcraft 2 does have banelings and hellions that deal hefty damage instantly but their sounds and their animations are incredibly BAD. and honestly the hellion needs a better model too.
i can ramble for ages on how terrible the background stuff is for starcraft 2 but the core gameplay of it is a success. is there any way to voice this to blizzard cuz i really care about the future of this game and would like it to be an fast, fun and exciting esport like BW
scarab = hunter seeker missile
also, i don't really feel there's any problem with the sound or models, and the animations are gosu. the protoss changed style from sinister tough guys to carebear draenai, but only carebears play protoss so i don't see a problem.
|
Watching old BW VODs is painful and not entertaining. They dont do efficient stuff, they cant harass properly, they were just bad.
Same apply for SC2.
The game has been out for a week.
Why cant you understand this ? How is this difficult ?
How models or animations can remove the fun from a game ? Its like saying BW isnt fun to watch cause its old and has bad graphics. You're using the same arguments that bashers are using against BW.
You're talking about low hp units that can do tons of damage. Banelings ? hellions (they do more damage to workers than vultures) ? HT, Colossi ?
There will be huge games, when some pro koreans will take the game seriously, you'll see ton of baneling drops onto workers with infestors, nydus flank on other army, offensive nydus and countless other things.
The game will be fun to watch when there will be huge money on the line and when people will have practice thousand of hours and find out every little glitch, balance in the game and timings.
It will take years, several patches and expansions, what do you expect ?
|
I guess these "Experts" who are looking at the game time of SC2 on net cafés fail to realize that one CANNOT play SC2 without buying the game in the first place!
I blame Activision for making b.net 2,0 the way it is. People who goes to net cafés usually just need to pay the store and are able to play SC1 and WC3 without the need of buying the game. However because of how b.net 2.0 is fail, it forces potential players in net cafés to buy the game to even play SC2. If they had a copy of SC2 why would they need to go to a net café in the first place?
Unlike here in the western hemisphere, Asia`s people don`t usually own a personal computer. When they need one they just go to a net café. Many of you may not understand this but just imagine the following scenario:
I am a highschooler in korea. It is the holidays but I don`t have a PC and only have enough money to play at net cafés occasionally. Why would I buy a $60 game AND pay the net café to play a game that I won`t have much time to spend with?
So of course SC2 will fail in the net cafés. Activision is forcing anyone who even wants to try the game to buy it!
Edit:
God I can`t believe I made an account just to put this point out... <.<
|
On August 04 2010 17:29 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +Jung Myung Hoon (fantasy) included "Starcraft 2" as one of the things on his mind, in recent Ro16 ceremony. UpMagiC and other legendary or suspended names already switched to SC2, or are playing it actively.
Fantasy probably only listed it because he's thinking realistically, that at some point he'll have to switch to SC2 if BW dies out. As for Upmagic.. I guess you missed the newspost where there was netizen outrage about him even considering to play SC2 professionally? Sure, but both cases show the Korean interest in SC2 is growing, and pro's are taking it very seriously. People wouldn't care much if Upmagic played minesweeper competitively.
On August 04 2010 17:11 MockHamill wrote:
BW is the most overrated Game Ever. It was a fun Game with a bad interface that got abused by a bunch of Koreans that trained themselves in the art of clicking fast. Maybe this time around matches will be decided by strategy and skill and not by which monkey can click the fastest. Very unfortunate that you used harsh language that people would easily bash you for, while some of your arguments are valid - not every mechanic of BW is meaningful strategically. I.e. people are doing a lot of clicking and key-pressing the same way over and over in each game, without this being related in any way to their ability to think strategically. Blizzard never considered this normal, just it was what they could implement efficiently enough for multiplayer, but they always wanted to improve it, so they did.
|
On August 04 2010 17:29 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +Jung Myung Hoon (fantasy) included "Starcraft 2" as one of the things on his mind, in recent Ro16 ceremony. UpMagiC and other legendary or suspended names already switched to SC2, or are playing it actively.
Fantasy probably only listed it because he's thinking realistically, that at some point he'll have to switch to SC2 if BW dies out. As for Upmagic.. I guess you missed the newspost where there was netizen outrage about him even considering to play SC2 professionally? and to those saying that Korea is not important to SC2.. you have got to be seriously kidding yourselves. If SC2 doesn't succeed in Korea, do you think you'll ever see anything as prestigious as the OSL, or something as glorious as a PL final on Gwanganri? Not to mention if BW was dominated by foreigners instead of Koreans, the game would be 3-5 years behind where it is now. PvZ would probably look something like Undead vs Orc. Also this talk about Blizzard closely collaborating with top pros for balancing.. I don't think that's that great of an idea. Sure it might balance the game in its current state, but it would effectively limit strategical options and evolution imo. One great beauty of BW was that the game was essentially unchanged since 2000, and instead of going to Blizzard to whine about some unit being OP they just dealt with it and the game was balanced by maps and their own play. Then again, when a lot of the units actually weren't that well designed, maybe it's better to just collaborate with the pros..
OSL etc earned its status _over time_ cause back in the day it was just good to have and it evolved into what it is now.
on a sidenote u should not spread false information as for example 1.08 happend in 2001 which was huge (remember the 150>200 pool?)
|
Yes, time will tell whether this is true or not.But I have to remaind you that the market of Chinese mainland has not mentioned, because the delay and I am sure the Chinese market will contribute a lot to blz.
|
10387 Posts
On August 04 2010 17:42 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 17:29 ArvickHero wrote:Jung Myung Hoon (fantasy) included "Starcraft 2" as one of the things on his mind, in recent Ro16 ceremony. UpMagiC and other legendary or suspended names already switched to SC2, or are playing it actively.
Fantasy probably only listed it because he's thinking realistically, that at some point he'll have to switch to SC2 if BW dies out. As for Upmagic.. I guess you missed the newspost where there was netizen outrage about him even considering to play SC2 professionally? Sure, but both cases show the Korean interest in SC2 is growing, and pro's are taking it very seriously. People wouldn't care much if Upmagic played minesweeper competitively.
To put things in perspective, Boxer stated that he was prepared to switch to WC3 if that became the main eSport when it came out. Plus the match fixers are pretty much universally reviled in Korea, if they try to get back into eSports in any way, there will be an uproar. Neither of these instances show that interest in SC2 is growing in Korea, it was pretty much the same as it always was.. more like its starting to shrink with the dismal numbers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
