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billyX333
United States1360 Posts
Try to envision a big bad foreign company stomping out the local business to take more profits and in addition to that, creating a new product to threaten your current form of entertainment I know i'd shun sc2 if i had this image of blizzard in my head | ||
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byobong7
United States207 Posts
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Nayl
Canada413 Posts
I wouldn't rely on sales numbers atm until the open beta is over. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On August 04 2010 16:28 Backpack wrote: Koreans played professionally for years and it never become more than a sub-culture in the west. SC2 is already bigger than BW ever was in many places, just not Korea. Well duh, cus no esports figure exists here in the west with the charisma to be taken seriously. And no platform big enough exists. Even SC was just a freak accident, it wasn't made for esports in mind. The esports model has to radiate out from something, somewhere. If people start from scratch with SC2 it just means it'll take another 10 years, provided people take to it, which comes back to the issue of social stigma. Besides, 1.5 mil worldwide is not that big considering how many people won't even try 1v1 melee. Korea has made in-road for 10 years, it's been lotta trial and error, and it got legit multinational companies like samsung to sponsor huge events. I hope they'll continue the work, otherwise it ain't gonna fly, at least not for years. | ||
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Nikhedoniac
Australia20 Posts
In other news, Bobsled 2 has been a failure in Jamaica... | ||
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Radnewt
United States67 Posts
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BearsAreScary
United States6 Posts
I apologize for wanting a game where when I tell a group of stalkers to walk down a cliff, THEY DO IT and don't run across the whole map like idiots. Man, the elitist air from these BW people is really outrageous. All this "mechanical skill" and "work" that you put into BW was literally just learning how to effectively spam APM: telling your units to do what you originally wanted them to do over and over, bugging them out with glitches to fly across mineral patches, make workers attack faster, etc.). How high you can get your APM up is not, in itself, a good or even decent measure of skill. Maybe if SC2 only took 50 APM to be pro at, I'd bite. But 150 APM compared to 300 and people are seriously freaking out? SC2 requires a different set of skills, as has been said. During battles, your positioning and micro are much more important. Instead of your ability to micro being determined entirely by your APM in BW, now you have to actually do brainwork to determine what units you want to engage and how. Clicking faster no longer means a more advantageous situation. Now you must click more intelligently. You must ration your spells carefully, or wait to flank the opponent at the right time. It is precisely because you cannot salvage your lack of brainwork with a higher APM that makes SC2 as fantastic as it is. But whatever, the BW elitists will never change their minds. They can have fun with their game, I suppose. | ||
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Lokian
United States699 Posts
SC2 has way more potential than SC if Korea embraces it in my opinion. With the influx of new players and awareness of SC2, it is no doubt that the SC2 scene will become great internationally. I'ts only the beginning. There's two more expansions left, and those expansions are said to introduce entirely new meta games (which will be like a different game, but all three versions will co-exist in tournaments). Although the korean SC scene saw better days (Before the match fixing scandal/ SC2), it's still a big part of korea, so I don't think it will go away easily. Even if there is a large player base for SC2 in korea, Kespa still has the pro-gamers, and the pro-gamers are doing well where they are. SC2 is a great game and I think if it becomes twice as big as BW, BW would die. Lets hope SC2 won't turn out so good that BW will die out completely.(I won't hope that) I still have doubts. It feels like you know something is going to happen but you think it won't. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
On August 04 2010 15:21 cerebralz wrote: I think this, if it is accurate, has everything to do with the kespa/blizzard thing and the fact that the only progamers playing SC2 right now are retired from the mainstream. The S-Class pro's will get their hands on the game soon enough and when it's on TV it will take off. Plus the fact that koreans in general (i am one) are very resistant to change and until it is 'accepted' fully, there will be a reluctance to go from what you do know to what you don't know. It's just a little different mechanic than the rest of the western world goes by. I think spreading negative press though, is probably bad for the esport in general and i would hope that people don't do it just to get some attention. What will those S-Class pros find in the game? Korean auditories jumped into the air when seeing good reaver shots, lurker ambushes and minefield action. Blizzard took a concise stance on removing spectator-friendly units from the game and substituted it with Marauders, Immortals and Roaches. All those units have interesting, refreshing gameplay mechanics, but those mechanics influence the winner, not the process. All you see is a huge ball of invincible infantry (I still can't get used to the pathfinding mechanics) fighting a huge ball of invincible striders and one ball winning in the end. They may be interesting to play as, but they are ridiculously boring to watch. There are many many issues with SC2. I hate the new saturation mechanics with a passion because I'm goddamn SICK of being forced to 4 gate before expanding in PvP. Economy is so broken in SC2 it's not even funny. With the lack of early accessible AA and lack of terrain traversing units, SC1 was very drop-centric because commiting yourself to a drop usually led to you taking a very good and unexpected position. SC2? Protoss does not have a single unit even worth dropping and every goddamn race has something that protects them from drops anyway. Sensor towers, vikings, queens, faster movement on creep, whatever. I won't even start arguing on how a range 9(!) anti-air unit breaks the air part of the game. Only a blind person would not see the problems with SC2. It's still a great game, but I seriously doubt it can be viable as a spectator sport in it's current shape. It's not that scary, before Brood War came, SC1 wasn't that much spectator-viable as well. Btw, what's with all those <100 postcount fanboys everywhere? It looks like posting something like "SC2 has minor flaws" will attract kilotons of hate. | ||
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On August 04 2010 16:47 BearsAreScary wrote: Do people seriously think SC2 sucks because it has things that "require less skill" like MBS and unit AI that isn't unbelievably retarded. I apologize for wanting a game where when I tell a group of stalkers to walk down a cliff, THEY DO IT and don't run across the whole map like idiots. Man, the elitist air from these BW people is really outrageous. All this "mechanical skill" and "work" that you put into BW was literally just learning how to effectively spam APM: telling your units to do what you originally wanted them to do over and over, bugging them out with glitches to fly across mineral patches, make workers attack faster, etc.). How high you can get your APM up is not, in itself, a good or even decent measure of skill. Maybe if SC2 only took 50 APM to be pro at, I'd bite. But 150 APM compared to 300 and people are seriously freaking out? SC2 requires a different set of skills, as has been said. During battles, your positioning and micro are much more important. Instead of your ability to micro being determined entirely by your APM in BW, now you have to actually do brainwork to determine what units you want to engage and how. Clicking faster no longer means a more advantageous situation. Now you must click more intelligently. You must ration your spells carefully, or wait to flank the opponent at the right time. It is precisely because you cannot salvage your lack of brainwork with a higher APM that makes SC2 as fantastic as it is. But whatever, the BW elitists will never change their minds. They can have fun with their game, I suppose. lol troll. honestly I don't think you'll get these people here to apologize for actually understanding the game and knowing WTF the pros do, even if not 100% of the time. What you call spamming APM, first it really doesn't take that much work, and second many actions add more depth to the game itself. All the skills you listed for SC2 are in SC (well duh). Actions in SC2 are no more intelligent than other in SC. It's just less complicated in a bad way so far. And the pathing in SC2 is not that good, if you bothered to actually play it lol. So far it's good, but not fantastic as everyone would like it to be. But what does it matter to people like you? You'll play the SP and dabble in MP a little and move onto newer noncompetitive stuff in no time. People who actually "stick wit it" know what's what. Capice???  | ||
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_awake_
196 Posts
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mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
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kalleralle
Sweden183 Posts
On August 04 2010 16:51 BluzMan wrote: What will those S-Class pros find in the game? Korean auditories jumped into the air when seeing good reaver shots, lurker ambushes and minefield action. Blizzard took a concise stance on removing spectator-friendly units from the game and substituted it with Marauders, Immortals and Roaches. All those units have interesting, refreshing gameplay mechanics, but those mechanics influence the winner, not the process. All you see is a huge ball of invincible infantry (I still can't get used to the pathfinding mechanics) fighting a huge ball of invincible striders and one ball winning in the end. They may be interesting to play as, but they are ridiculously boring to watch. There are many many issues with SC2. I hate the new saturation mechanics with a passion because I'm goddamn SICK of being forced to 4 gate before expanding in PvP. Economy is so broken in SC2 it's not even funny. With the lack of early accessible AA and lack of terrain traversing units, SC1 was very drop-centric because commiting yourself to a drop usually led to you taking a very good and unexpected position. SC2? Protoss does not have a single unit even worth dropping and every goddamn race has something that protects them from drops anyway. Sensor towers, vikings, queens, faster movement on creep, whatever. I won't even start arguing on how a range 9(!) anti-air unit breaks the air part of the game. Only a blind person would not see the problems with SC2. It's still a great game, but I seriously doubt it can be viable as a spectator sport in it's current shape. It's not that scary, before Brood War came, SC1 wasn't that much spectator-viable as well. Btw, what's with all those <100 postcount fanboys everywhere? It looks like posting something like "SC2 has minor flaws" will attract kilotons of hate. I might be a <100 post fanboy but the same thing was said when they made the change from the fast paced bunnyjumping 1.3 counter-strike to a more slow paced 1.4-1.6. Even though the game became a "worse" spectator sport it was still a good game and both HLTV audiences and amount of players grew exponentially. Also I think there are lots of potentially exciting and spectacular mechanics(banelings, infestors, nydus, force fields etc.) in SC2 it's just that people haven't found out how to use them properly yet, plus the map editor has sick potential for professional dota like custom games. Lastly, from what I understand Blizzard has been co-operating with pros with regards to map design and balance for a long while now and will continue doing so which means it will probably improve with patches and expansions. | ||
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Aerox
Malaysia1213 Posts
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BeJe77
United States377 Posts
That game play didn't simply materialize over night, it took some innovation and I think a lot of you newer guys that picked up Broodwar are forgetting that, playing the game in 1998, then in 2001, and then today are like completely different monsters. Some of the older plays will know this but majority of you newer TL'ers simply wont. Overall, Korea is not important to the Success of SC2, its the community. Korea is important for the E-Sport because they can make the Western E-Sport grow even more. The problem is all of you newer BW guys saying SC2 is failing because it has not replaced BW in Korea. Obviously you seem to forget how long it took BW to establish itself. Certainly, this is the successor to BW and everyone knows about it. But you are missing a very important step here. You want to uproot a game that has been a big scene in Korea for a very long time, where its a multi-billion dollar industry. People are not so willing to switch over immediately to something when millions and millions of dollars are at steak. It's not so simple to switch to a new product, when you already have a product that keeps making more and more money for you, even if its older. Obviously the issue here is the KESPA/Blizzard dealings as well, KESPA should of been more open because after all they are profiting from a game that is not theirs and are not sharing those profits with the creators. Those same companies would do the same thing if it was their product. But the point is Kespa/Blizzard should of done a more civilized deal that could of allowed Kespa to keep running BW as the pro scene and introduce the SC2 scene as well. Something that would of established SC2 with even more popularity. Hence why I really hated the Kespa/Blizzard dispute because it put the games success as an esport in danger. Also lot of people seem to be forgetting the fact that Blizzard basically said you get SC2 for free in Korea if you got a WoW account and Asia has the biggest share of WoW subscriptions if I recall correctly. Not to mention they also still have the open beta going for people to try it out. Also lastly before I forget, you people do realize that STARCRAFT 2 is a RTS, I repeat, its a RTS. Something that your average joe does not buy. SC2 selling 1.5 million copies in the first 2 days is nothing short of a miracle, because it is an RTS, something deemed hard for the normal folk. If you gave an average person a choice of weather they wanted an FPS or a RTS the person would pick the FPS. just saying. Also, as finishing comment, the people running like headless chickens about SC2 failing and how terrible it is makes me chuckle. The only thing I hate so far about SC2 is the fact I can't play cross server, which was the most retarded thing Blizzard has done and I blame Activision because obviously they want you to buy another copy to play on a different server but hey the game is more fun then BW. Also not having chat channels is pretty retarded as well, I mean common really? Other then that yeah heh | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
If you don't like sc2 cool why go to the sc2 section and post about it all the time? I mean imagine if a bw hater posted in most bw topics going "yeah this game sucks how can you like it?". Its pretty annoying. If you don't like sc2 cool if you like it more power to you. Either way i love both games they are both insanely fun and i can watch both for hours which is what I do when I can't play for whatever reason ^^. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On August 04 2010 16:47 BearsAreScary wrote: Do people seriously think SC2 sucks because it has things that "require less skill" like MBS and unit AI that isn't unbelievably retarded. I apologize for wanting a game where when I tell a group of stalkers to walk down a cliff, THEY DO IT and don't run across the whole map like idiots. Man, the elitist air from these BW people is really outrageous. All this "mechanical skill" and "work" that you put into BW was literally just learning how to effectively spam APM: telling your units to do what you originally wanted them to do over and over, bugging them out with glitches to fly across mineral patches, make workers attack faster, etc.). How high you can get your APM up is not, in itself, a good or even decent measure of skill. Maybe if SC2 only took 50 APM to be pro at, I'd bite. But 150 APM compared to 300 and people are seriously freaking out? SC2 requires a different set of skills, as has been said. During battles, your positioning and micro are much more important. Instead of your ability to micro being determined entirely by your APM in BW, now you have to actually do brainwork to determine what units you want to engage and how. Clicking faster no longer means a more advantageous situation. Now you must click more intelligently. You must ration your spells carefully, or wait to flank the opponent at the right time. It is precisely because you cannot salvage your lack of brainwork with a higher APM that makes SC2 as fantastic as it is. But whatever, the BW elitists will never change their minds. They can have fun with their game, I suppose. This. BW is the most overrated game ever. It was a fun game with a bad interface that got abused by a bunch of Koreans that trained themselves in the art of clicking fast. Maybe this time around matches will be decided by strategy and skill and not by which monkey can click the fastest. | ||
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Zalfor
United States1035 Posts
reaver, lurker, vultures with mines were all units with low hp and high damage potential. sc2 has reaper... and thats pretty much it? | ||
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mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
On August 04 2010 17:11 MockHamill wrote: This. BW is the most overrated game ever. It was a fun game with a bad interface that got abused by a bunch of Koreans that trained themselves in the art of clicking fast. Maybe this time around matches will be decided by strategy and skill and not by which monkey can click the fastest. New users like this guy, make me feel ashamed. | ||
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