EPTAgreed about the new maps as well. I laughed when I saw Delta Quadrant's potential for the most evil reaper play to ever exist.
An open letter on "balance" and maps - Page 2
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SiegeFlank
United States410 Posts
Agreed about the new maps as well. I laughed when I saw Delta Quadrant's potential for the most evil reaper play to ever exist. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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silencesc
United States464 Posts
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jtgizmo
Congo161 Posts
On August 03 2010 06:25 Ryuu314 wrote: Personally, I think Zerg does okay in some of the wide-open maps, while Protoss gets the short stick. For example, the new map, Delta Quadrant and Desert Oasis are next to unplayable for Protoss in a PvZ because all-in speedlings are just too ridiculously powerful. It is impossible for Protoss to expand against any competent Zerg who just keeps sending in speedlings into the mineral line. Protoss is forced to defend (usually unsuccessfully) while Zerg can mass expand everywhere. I really don't care about having large macro maps anymore. I just want non-bullshit maps that aren't horribly imbalanced. That is simply not true, Desert Oasis is one of the best maps for Protoss...havent played other one as i opted out of it, didnt like it | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
You cannot get rid of chokes ramps xel nagas, these are important features of the game. races have to be revised. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
In PvZ, tight choke points in front of the natural make it relatively easy to fast expand through blocking it with buildings and deploying cannons, since Zergs early units include Banelings, Roaches and Zerglings, which make busting the wall difficult. In PvT, and PvP, a single force-fieldable choke-point in front of the natural would be PERFECT for Protoss since you could fast expand and use Force Field to keep them at bay, but not a single map allows this, which I think is the primary cause of the general volativity of two matchups. Some maps have 2FF chokes, like Blistering Sands (Lost Temple is about 3FFs), but then they have those damned destructible rocks, too. It really all boils down to ease of expansion and it has a dramatic effect because a fully saturated expansions gives you 100% more income...that's nothing to laugh at. Protoss only EVER have an easy time expanding in PvZ, and only when there's a tight choke in front of the natural, which isn't common. In PvT you can't expand without full knowledge of what the Terran's build is (Hallucination, Observers, Void Rays, whatever it is, it takes time to discover their intent and respond and half the time you see they've already got an expansion going) and in PvP I dare say expanding is literally impossible. He who expands first, loses. I can't think of a map, besides Desert Oasis (natural is miles away from the ramp) where Zerg has trouble expanding in ZvP, and there definitely isn't a map on this earth that Terrans have trouble expanding in, in PvT. Hello Bunkers and the strength of Bio against Gateway. Can't make any claims on ZvT, but I presume that Zerg have a hell of a time in that matchup, because Terran harassment makes short work of their economy because Hellions can bust in through the many wide entrances we see in front of naturals. Compare how easy it is to expand in SC2, compared to what you'd see in the enormous maps in BW. Its obvious many of the balancing problems can be diluted when map size is enlarged. If both sides can safely expand, then the first guy to get the next expansion is only going to give them a 50% increase, not a 100% increase. | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
On August 03 2010 06:54 bokeevboke wrote: I still believe races are imbalanced. You cannot get rid of chokes ramps xel nagas, these are important features of the game. We aren't getting rid of them, just getting less of them. And you really don't need Watch Towers in EVERY map anyway...only where they would be useful. | ||
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SiegeFlank
United States410 Posts
On August 03 2010 06:24 alphafuzard wrote: the current maps are just as "technical and large" as the majority of brood war pro maps that is not the problem imo what i don't like is the patterns in maps that blizzard has forced upon the community. the game has been balanced around these gimmicky, mediocre maps, and now the patterns that they follow have consequently become the standard I don't see how these maps even come close in the technical level to some of the BW pro maps (i.e sin chupung ryeong, heartbreak ridge, match point). LT, Metalopolis, and Steppes (the most popular sc2 maps) are all pretty straightforward. I think that if Blizzard wants maps that are easier to understand, they should really only need them in the lower leagues. They should at least allow for more interesting maps in Diamond. | ||
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Kvz
United States463 Posts
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
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stroggos
New Zealand1543 Posts
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Reuental
United States457 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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FlamingTurd
United States1059 Posts
Yes, of course the maps are clearly favored, especially in maps like Kulas Ravine etc. And yes, the reason for this map problem is that the race itself is too powerful and creates these map issues. If the thor's or siege tanks weren't so freakin powerful, people wouldn't be dropping them all over the place where Zerg has such extreme difficulty defending ie: cliffs behind the expos on Kulas and LT. | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On August 03 2010 07:25 Numy wrote: Yea I really hope that in a months time we won't still be playing this horrible horrible map pool. A month? Unless a map gets pulled due to massive imbalance, I can't imagine the map pool changing in just a month. Most of these maps made it all the way through Beta, there's no way they'd change them so fast after release. | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
On August 03 2010 07:18 xtfftc wrote: The main problem with maps is that most people play ladder, which only includes poorly-designed Blizzard maps, or practice for ladder/tournaments on the same maps. To get a map into the ladder pool we need Blizzard to put it there. Unfortunately, they probably plan on charging users for new maps, so it will be even more complicated. thats why the iccup mapmaker league thingy is so needed, and it needs to get out to the masses so they know how to find the maps and then it will skyrocket from there. | ||
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SiegeFlank
United States410 Posts
On August 03 2010 07:18 xtfftc wrote: The main problem with maps is that most people play ladder, which only includes poorly-designed Blizzard maps, or practice for ladder/tournaments on the same maps. To get a map into the ladder pool we need Blizzard to put it there. Unfortunately, they probably plan on charging users for new maps, so it will be even more complicated. I highly doubt that they'll charge users for new ladder maps. Not only has there been no mention of it in the past, but if they actually did decide to charge for it, the amount of backlash they would receive from the community would be so large that they'd basically be forced to make it free. Maps are much easier to design in SC2 than they are in other games (with regards to the tools they provide you). | ||
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hefty
Denmark555 Posts
Blizzard's map makers are doing the best they can to cmoe up with some good and balanced maps, I´m sure. They might not always succeed, but there'll be new maps, and if they can't get it right the community will. So really.. what is the message to Blizzard again? | ||
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Necrosjef
United Kingdom530 Posts
Let me come at it from a different angle. "The maps are the maps. The reason Terran are winning more often than not on these maps is because Terran are too strong." Let me also address the part of your post where you call on SC2 mapmakers to make more Protoss and Zerg favoured maps. Not that there is anything wrong with this idea, but this idea will take time and quite frankly SC2 needs care and attention from Blizzard not a bunch of amateur map makers. What you should be doing rather than making topics like this is writing "An Open Letter to Blizzard" with the explicit instruction of 2 words. The first one being nerf and the second one being Terran. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
So his actual message is "Let people who can make better maps use them on ladder." | ||
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