I also vastly prefer Starcraft 2 over WoW because you don't have to rely on other people. Here's the thing about WoW... if you want to do well in the arena, you either need to be able to carry (think mage that is very skilled at cc) or have good partners. I experienced the inability to get past 1500 with some people, and with others the ability to get to 2k rating in the first night of playing. I constantly questioned my own skill in WoW arena, because depending on gear and who I was playing with, I was either gladiator material or a sub-1500 scrub.
In Starcraft 2, I was able to jump right in and beat some people that are really good. Every loss I could blame on myself, and every win I could take credit for. Even in the 2v2 bracket, I was able to carry my silver leagued friend straight into platinum (b4 diamond). That, my friends, is a game based on pure skill.
Also, for some reason WoW guilds are rarely interested in how good or bad you are. Do you have the achievements, do you have the gear? Do you know someone to vouch for you? We'll try you out. It makes it REALLY hard to get back into the game unless you plan on grinding with a crappy guild to get the gear. On the other hand in sc2 you can jump right back in, mechanics might take a dozen games to get back, but you don't forget strategy.
Admittedly I'm biased because I had a lot of bad experiences in WoW. Maybe I am just not a people person. ='/
On July 22 2010 10:18 virgozero wrote: lol so much wrong. 1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.
lol he binds his spells to f1-f12 and talks about skill
Lol i forgot press 1-0 takes more skill than pressing f1-12 right? God your soo smart do you give lessons?
Reaction times. You want the fastest reaction speed in that game and having keys that are likely out of reach is stupid. I had 50 keybinds on my hunter and I never used F1-F12 (except F1 to toggle enemy nameplates). You use the closest and fastest keys and then use modifers on those keys that don't interfere with your movement keys. Also binding keys to mouse buttons.
In fact reaction speed is so important when I got snowfallkeypress mod, sounds super gay, but it makes your spells go off on key PRESS rather than key RELEASE I noticed an immense improvement in performance. From just milliseconds difference it mattered so much because pulling your fingers off takes nearly twice as long than pushing them down. Speed matters.
wow you still dont get it? My point is that the only skill to WOW is button mashing. Spamming spells. You do not aim (for the most part and its honestly dead easy anyways) and its ultimately who has the more 1337 EQ wins the game.
Just retardedly stupid.
There is none of that stupid stuff in Sc. Sc is purely about strategy and out thinking your opponent (on the high end level where skill has plateaued due to the low skill ceiling of rts)
Its like comparing an automatic mercedes with a manual lamborghini They appy to 2 completely different genres.
WoW is meant for a casual relax, click click, spam spells, click click, chillax, hang with your clan, fly around the world. Basically having another life in a virtual world.
Sc2 is meant for high level intense mental concentration to out play your opponent.
On July 22 2010 10:18 virgozero wrote: lol so much wrong. 1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.
lol he binds his spells to f1-f12 and talks about skill
Lol i forgot press 1-0 takes more skill than pressing f1-12 right? God your soo smart do you give lessons?
Reaction times. You want the fastest reaction speed in that game and having keys that are likely out of reach is stupid. I had 50 keybinds on my hunter and I never used F1-F12 (except F1 to toggle enemy nameplates). You use the closest and fastest keys and then use modifers on those keys that don't interfere with your movement keys. Also binding keys to mouse buttons.
In fact reaction speed is so important when I got snowfallkeypress mod, sounds super gay, but it makes your spells go off on key PRESS rather than key RELEASE I noticed an immense improvement in performance. From just milliseconds difference it mattered so much because pulling your fingers off takes nearly twice as long than pushing them down. Speed matters.
wow you still dont get it? My point is that the only skill to WOW is button mashing. Spamming spells. You do not aim (for the most part and its honestly dead easy anyways) and its ultimately who has the more 1337 EQ wins the game.
Just retardedly stupid.
There is none of that stupid stuff in Sc. Sc is purely about strategy and out thinking your opponent (on the high end level where skill has plateaued due to the low skill ceiling of rts)
this isn't quite a thread for you to bash about WoW competition scene, look on GOMTV, half of their game videos are of WoW tournaments the videos themselves have as much views as the sc2 ones
`i don't see why you can't give these players more credit, there's quiet a lot of teamwork involved maybe even the sort of great coordination that would transfer over to team matches, sc2
On July 22 2010 10:18 virgozero wrote: lol so much wrong. 1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.
lol he binds his spells to f1-f12 and talks about skill
Lol i forgot press 1-0 takes more skill than pressing f1-12 right? God your soo smart do you give lessons?
Reaction times. You want the fastest reaction speed in that game and having keys that are likely out of reach is stupid. I had 50 keybinds on my hunter and I never used F1-F12 (except F1 to toggle enemy nameplates). You use the closest and fastest keys and then use modifers on those keys that don't interfere with your movement keys. Also binding keys to mouse buttons.
In fact reaction speed is so important when I got snowfallkeypress mod, sounds super gay, but it makes your spells go off on key PRESS rather than key RELEASE I noticed an immense improvement in performance. From just milliseconds difference it mattered so much because pulling your fingers off takes nearly twice as long than pushing them down. Speed matters.
wow you still dont get it? My point is that the only skill to WOW is button mashing. Spamming spells. You do not aim (for the most part and its honestly dead easy anyways) and its ultimately who has the more 1337 EQ wins the game.
Just retardedly stupid.
There is none of that stupid stuff in Sc. Sc is purely about strategy and out thinking your opponent (on the high end level where skill has plateaued due to the low skill ceiling of rts)
this isn't quite a thread for you to bash about WoW competition scene, look on GOMTV, half of their game videos are of WoW tournaments the videos themselves have as much views as the sc2 ones
After a week of sc2 beta I tried going back to wow. I didn't last 2hours.... GCDs make the game sooooo slow. Also it's really nice to be able to get up and walk around during a gaming session without 24 people yelling at you for going AFK. I may level a toon through cata just because I want to see the new stuff but I doubt I'll ever be tied down to a meaningless grind again.
I feel like this thread is like a meeting of wow annonymous. And wow-haters non- annonymous
While I don't necessarily agree with it, a case could surely be made to show the validity of that statement.
I don't think so. I can't for the life of me think of any reason that the two would be correlated. I mean, it's pretty obvious for example that the most popular writers are not necessarily the most talented. Having an audience just means you appeal to the crowd, not that your product is extremely complex... or in this case competitive.
You're doing the right thing Two! My friend has been asking me lately if i want to start WoW again. His friends are starting again and want to start raiding.
I told him that im going to be playing Sc2 full-time . Its not worth all that time spent!
On July 22 2010 10:18 virgozero wrote: lol so much wrong. 1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.
lol he binds his spells to f1-f12 and talks about skill
Lol i forgot press 1-0 takes more skill than pressing f1-12 right? God your soo smart do you give lessons?
Reaction times. You want the fastest reaction speed in that game and having keys that are likely out of reach is stupid. I had 50 keybinds on my hunter and I never used F1-F12 (except F1 to toggle enemy nameplates). You use the closest and fastest keys and then use modifers on those keys that don't interfere with your movement keys. Also binding keys to mouse buttons.
In fact reaction speed is so important when I got snowfallkeypress mod, sounds super gay, but it makes your spells go off on key PRESS rather than key RELEASE I noticed an immense improvement in performance. From just milliseconds difference it mattered so much because pulling your fingers off takes nearly twice as long than pushing them down. Speed matters.
wow you still dont get it? My point is that the only skill to WOW is button mashing. Spamming spells. You do not aim (for the most part and its honestly dead easy anyways) and its ultimately who has the more 1337 EQ wins the game.
Just retardedly stupid.
There is none of that stupid stuff in Sc. Sc is purely about strategy and out thinking your opponent (on the high end level where skill has plateaued due to the low skill ceiling of rts)
WoW isn't about buttons mashing. Most of ability have cooldown, and win is hightly determined by placements / timings / teamwork and the choice of when use that ability and how depending of what your ennemie is doing and his mistakes. And i can tell you, i use to play at the best level of the best UE batteground and if it's not as difficult as Starcraft, it's still damn hard difficult. )
Of course i talk about PvP.. PvE is a an other thing.
I cancelled my subscription till cata also...the game is mind numbingly boring at this point. The only thing to do is is run ICC for the 100000th time since PvP has been atrocious since wotlk was released. Can't even stand to log in anymore. I seriously don't see how anyone could still have fun with wotlk at this point -_-
On July 22 2010 09:23 Nagano wrote: There is hardly a skill ceiling on WoW, just your ability to form a team with people who have gear and basic pvp strategy. That's really it.
Poppin cooldowns, mash mash mash, he's ded lol
Lol. Maybe at 1900. Link your 3k rated team please? There's tons of teams of the same comp spread over the entire spectrum of ratings, obviously some are much better than others, like in anything else.
Also, if you can't see the incredibly high skill cap in these matches then you just don't get it:
I played 2400 frost mage in S4/5/6 on BG9 and wow is still a joke compared to the skill it takes for SC2 on the top level. They are very different games, and the top level of wow pvp does require alot of skill, but its just not the same depth as SC2 by any stretch. Yeah I never got e-famous and competed or anything, but I support the idea that SC2 has a much higher skill cap.
On July 22 2010 12:53 shinosai wrote: I also vastly prefer Starcraft 2 over WoW because you don't have to rely on other people.
this.
My experience with WoW is akin to most posts here. 4+ years spent playing the game ina casual guild means a lot of frustrating moments. It wasn't always bad but more recently its gotten to the point to where the guild i was in had so many that were either annoying, bad or a combo of both. It felt like i was trapped since there were a handful of people from vanilla that i still liked to play with, but the core raiding group consisted of mostly people i'd rather not consort with. Raiding became a chore and thus the game wasn't fun for me anymore. /rhyme +1
I'm excited to be able to play a starcraft 2 like i used to play starcraft. No teammate to undermine a strategy, no carrying, no annoying (albeit sometimes decent players) teammates you're forced to play with, but most important of all, no one to blame but myself.
I'm proud to be able to be a part of the beta and to help form what has the chance to be a really great game. I like the OP have been Blizzard fanboy since i could move a mouse. My first game i ever bought from Blizzard was Blackthorne if you can believe it. I've played through the warcraft rts series, both Diablos online when they were in their hay-day and i even bought the sierra expansion pack with the monk and hidden bard char. After that came starcraft. I lol'd so hard when Day[9] said in his 100th(?) daily that he used to bring the brood war book with him to school and stuff since i thought i was the only one. I thought i was so cool... but hey, it is cool, so what can i say.
ok... i went on a bit of a tangent there. in short, blizzard will always have a special place in my heart and i'll see you on bnet on Tues.
I played 2400 frost mage in S4/5/6 on bloodlust and wow is still a fucking joke compared to the skill it takes for SC2. They are very different games, and the top level of wow pvp does require alot of skill, but its just not the same depth as SC2 by any stretch.
This.
RTS games will always be the hardest type of games anyway. But it don't mean that other games are just dumb.
Good for you man! I was pretty hardcore into WoW from day1 through season 5/6 of WoTLK, got glad on my war s2-4. As the pvp quality deteriorated with wotlk and since I felt like nothing new was added I decided to unsubb. Basically the PvP aspect of the game killed it for me. As soon as I heard about SC2 beta coming out I closed my account that month, that was like May last year or something. Haven't regretted it a day since! :D RTS was always my true love, mmo.. not for me.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I think you'll find a much more enriching and rewarding game in SC2 that doesn't require nearly the time commitment.
WoW's Arena problem is not the lack of skill. In fact, I like to compare it to Beat'Em Up's where reflexes, forethinking and proper execution are key. Add in a 3D environment and the importance of coordination and you've got a quite challenging game to begin with, even though there's a natural skill-barrier in form of the global cooldown. Its problem is comp balance. You can be the better team and still lose due to the opponent's comp being favored against yours (or even straight up overpowered). I'm buying that it is unbalanced, unfair and at times disgustingly frustrating (it shall never become a true recognized E-Sport because of those issues, or so I hope) - what I'm not buying is this whole "Arena = no skill" meme which even pro players seem eager to propagate.
And then there's PvE. Being the leader of a rather hardcore PvE-guild, I know what it takes to be more or less successful: a mature and hardened leadership, coordination and 30+ people capable of executing your plans. It might not be too skillful at the individual basis (hell, not by a long shot), but it's quite demanding at the collective level. If it wasn't for PvE, I would've quit the game a long time ago but Blizz are still kings of designing challenging encounters (Yes, endgame PvE IS fun, you heard it here first).
Having said that, Starcraft is by far more mechanically demanding but one should never forget the coordinative aspect which renders WoW far more complex than it actually seems to be.
I don't think so. I can't for the life of me think of any reason that the two would be correlated. I mean, it's pretty obvious for example that the most popular writers are not necessarily the most talented. Having an audience just means you appeal to the crowd, not that your product is extremely complex... or in this case competitive.
i guess a quick example would be how the starcraft competitive scene became larger and larger with the acknowledgement it drew from the crowds, players, and sponsor companies
--was made possible, as if it was because of the popularity of the game in the first place
EPT
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