StarCraft II Beta - Patch 16 (version 0.19.0.15976) StarCraft II Beta – Patch 16 (version 0.19.0.15976)
The latest patch notes can always be found on the StarCraft II Beta General Discussion forum.
General
Rally points now behave as a move command, instead of an attack move command. Enabled the ability to manually add a StarCraft II character friend using the player's character code. Character code is a server-assigned numerical code that is displayed within the Add Friend panel. Battle.net Achievements & Rewards have been updated. All Quick Match modes are now available: 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, and Free For All. All A.I. difficulties are now available for play. Cooperative matchmaking versus A.I. players is now available as a play mode. Enabled cross-game social features between World of Warcraft and StarCraft II.
I like the identifier reimplementation, though honestly I always kind of knew that was coming.
As silly as it is, I also like the WoW implementation because I have a lot of guildmates who I left behind when I quit WoW, so it'll be nice to be able to get in contact with them again.
The changes to the Infestor, Ultralisk, and Overseer are not that unexpected. Though infested terran is still an incredibly incredibly useless move >.<
Something else which is VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT you now need to log in to Battle.net in order to use the offline Starcraft 2 editor. Meaning blizzard now has a way to mandate validation for offline services. which is one HUGE step towards LAN capabilities, and it also removes their only real excuse for not having LAN.
Even if its on the Infestor, I don't see anyone using the infested terran spell. Fungal Growth is better in every circumstance I can think of, except for having a serious anti-air problem that can't be dealt with any other way. And I don't think anyone will get infestors for their anti-air capabliities.
Thor 250mm is still probably pretty good against ultras. Like infested terran back on infestors. It's obviously not the greatest spell ever, but it's occasionally useful on them.
On July 08 2010 05:39 MaD.pYrO wrote: 500mb for this?! :S
There are tons of unlisted changes--new maps, new interface for starters
This. the interface alone is totally different, they have like 72 maps or some crazy shit, improved graphics, better connectivity serverwise, engine optimization etc.
what! infested terran on the overseers was SOOO much better than on the infestor! uggh that makes me sad i wanted to see some awesome overseer plays in the future. Hopefully blizz will soon give it another ability to replace it. Also yay for the move rally!!!
The game feels just about perfect now. I'm so glad that frenzy is gone and infested terran is back. I got a lot of cool use out of that spell and really loved tossing 8-10 ITs onto a cliff for harass or stopping harass.
On July 08 2010 05:39 az2 wrote: why does rally point fix matter?
When you proxy, your rallied units will go straight to the enemy base (or wherever your rally point is) instead of going off to randomly chase some scouting worker
On July 08 2010 05:37 SI2 wrote: GG, not sure if the ultra is still worth it.
Cant belive ur saying this. its been viable for ages now ever sience the last buff it got. close to evry high tier zerg player iv seen the past months has been useing it.
To be honest I liked Infested Terrans on the Infester, having 6-8 Infesters you could drop down a near instant support-force - while it is only temporary I personally am glad its back.
So what do people really think about the new rally system? I'm not sure if I like it more than I dislike it. Any thoughts on this? I don't believe I have heard any discussion on this issue.
And hooray for bringing back infested terrans for the infestors... It's odd that they did not mention a new energy cost (note: infested terran energy cost was upped to 125 when it was given to the overseer). Next they'll probably give the infested terran to the mothership and see if protoss want to take a shot at not using the ability ever.
On July 08 2010 05:42 neurolite wrote: This makes 250mm cannon pretty useless, not really sure how i'm gonna counter mass ultras now, I guess mass banshees?
You do realise that 250 isn't just one big stun right? It's 1 shot those dear ultra so yeah it is going to be harder but far from useless.
Lol, what is this shit. So basicly blizzard have gone back a patch in regards to zerg abilities. The only thing of any real merit to the majority of us here is the addition of rally points now being move. Well I guess at least one thing is decent... can't believe it took a month to do this though, lol.
On July 08 2010 05:39 MaD.pYrO wrote: 500mb for this?! :S
There are tons of unlisted changes--new maps, new interface for starters
This. the interface alone is totally different, they have like 72 maps or some crazy shit, improved graphics, better connectivity serverwise, engine optimization etc.
is it just me, or do a lot of those achievements (if they're real) reference tf2? and does 250 mm cannon really have much use now? the stun capability was useful for stopping large/massive units, but as the colossus outranges, and enemy thors have the same range, i don't see much point in it now. perhaps just immortals =P
On July 08 2010 05:37 SI2 wrote: GG, not sure if the ultra is still worth it.
Cant belive ur saying this. its been viable for ages now ever sience the last buff it got. close to evry high tier zerg player iv seen the past months has been useing it.
True story. Watch Jinro vs Lelush on Kulas Ravine... Shows how terribly awesome Thors were against ultras. And you're right, since the buff they have become SO much more viable.
On July 08 2010 05:44 LuCiD37 wrote: So what do people really think about the new rally system? I'm not sure if I like it more than I dislike it. Any thoughts on this? I don't believe I have heard any discussion on this issue.
And hooray for bringing back infested terrans for the infestors... It's odd that they did not mention a new energy cost (note: infested terran energy cost was upped to 125 when it was given to the overseer). Next they'll probably give the infested terran to the mothership and see if protoss want to take a shot at not using the ability ever.
I think it's very good, for a zerg player point of view, when you create zergling while being attacked, most of time you don't want them to move suicide on the marine force attacking you as soon as they spawn. Before they just go straight forward to the marines attacking your base even if youve set your rally point at the opposite.
First time poster, actually created an account to post those patch notes (they showed up when I reinstalled and the oldschool patcher launched).
Being a zerg player I like it. Frenzy was pretty useless and ultras can now counter thors a little better which is nice. The infested terran won't be used much anyways as both units have strictly superior spells (overseers have the contamination and infestors have the fungal).
omg this is awful... infested terran sucks... it just needs to be removed... frenzy needed to be a small aoe and ultralisks can't be NPd now? that is lame... they need to boost the range on them a little so they can attack over zerglings...
why did they change the rally point system...? that's awful!
On July 08 2010 05:39 SLTorak.Hobo wrote: The infested terran spell being moved back to the infestor seems kind of odd, or did people want that? .
Its called an "infestor" for a reason. They probably realized that embarrassing fact like ten seconds after the last patch went through. That and the overlord probably behaved too much like a poor-mans raven.
On July 08 2010 05:42 neurolite wrote: This makes 250mm cannon pretty useless, not really sure how i'm gonna counter mass ultras now, I guess mass banshees?
Kite?
Day[9] daily episode 152 demonstrates why that Ultra buff Nerf was necessary imo.
GENTLEMEN. They did not say that they changed mana cost of the new Infested Terran which was on Overseer. That means we have a placeholder on Infestor.
I was under the impression that the reason for the Ultralisk HP nerd in patch 14 was due to the addition of "Frenzy." So now that they're removing Frenzy, why don't they revert Ultra HP back to normal?
On July 08 2010 05:47 moosh wrote: omg this is awful... infested terran sucks... it just needs to be removed... frenzy needed to be a small aoe and ultralisks can't be NPd now? that is lame... they need to boost the range on them a little so they can attack over zerglings...
why did they change the rally point system...? that's awful!
they made these changes to help balance the game .... obviously... and blizzard has been doing really good the whole time with balance changes. people just whine waaaaaaaaay to much.
Anybody checked the data files to see if Infested Terran cost 25 energy now? Because if they still cost 125 (75?) then that would be just LOL... Nobody will ever choose one infested terran over FG.
Or can you not even run the editor ATM due to the new required authentication?
On July 08 2010 05:44 LuCiD37 wrote: So what do people really think about the new rally system? I'm not sure if I like it more than I dislike it. Any thoughts on this? I don't believe I have heard any discussion on this issue.
And hooray for bringing back infested terrans for the infestors... It's odd that they did not mention a new energy cost (note: infested terran energy cost was upped to 125 when it was given to the overseer). Next they'll probably give the infested terran to the mothership and see if protoss want to take a shot at not using the ability ever.
Actually there has been a whole lot of complaining discussion regarding the old rally system. Basically the way it used to be, units would attack anything on their way to the rally point, reducing the player's ability to control his units. You don't want your units a-moving out of their production facilities for a ton of reasons, for example if you were rushing and rallied your first guys to the opponent's base, they would start following a random scout worker if it went too close instead of going where you wanted them.
New system is perfect (not only because it was this way in BW)
On July 08 2010 05:39 MaD.pYrO wrote: 500mb for this?! :S
There are tons of unlisted changes--new maps, new interface for starters
This. the interface alone is totally different, they have like 72 maps or some crazy shit, improved graphics, better connectivity serverwise, engine optimization etc.
sauce on new maps?
ooooh yeah that sounds good, i'll have some Ketchup on mine please, tasty new maps!
On July 08 2010 05:46 n3mo wrote: is it just me, or do a lot of those achievements (if they're real) reference tf2? and does 250 mm cannon really have much use now? the stun capability was useful for stopping large/massive units, but as the colossus outranges, and enemy thors have the same range, i don't see much point in it now. perhaps just immortals =P
It still does 500 damage at 83.333 dps (somewhat below twice the dps of the next biggest single target dps dealer--the ultralisk vs armored).
Probably you need to buffer armored units with hellions and let your thors whack on them. 15 damage per swipe isn't too much, and the splash is only 5 damage per swipe. So your 90 health hellions, thanks to their rather large unit radius (for their cost), are a great option.
On July 08 2010 05:42 neurolite wrote: This makes 250mm cannon pretty useless, not really sure how i'm gonna counter mass ultras now, I guess mass banshees?
You do realise that 250 isn't just one big stun right? It's 1 shot those dear ultra so yeah it is going to be harder but far from useless.
The reason to use 250 is the stun. It's not that much more dps (if any at all).
Rally points now behave as a move command, instead of an attack move command. Enabled the ability to manually add a StarCraft II character friend using the player's character code.
Awesome =]
Now immune to stuns and mind control.
... Ok. Can my BCs and Ravens also be immune to mind control :D!?
On July 08 2010 05:49 Saracen wrote: I was under the impression that the reason for the Ultralisk HP nerd in patch 14 was due to the addition of "Frenzy." So now that they're removing Frenzy, why don't they revert Ultra HP back to normal?
They also boosted ultralisk attack in those patches and made them move faster right away. They have also re-added some of the HP.
Really with the immunity to stun and NP the ultras have a permanent half frenzy (and it was the half I wanted, thors countered them so so hard).
wtf people are still not going to use infested terrans since NP and FG are far superior. They need to get rid of that spell altogether and actually put in something useful on the overseer to make it a viable air caster.
so long for these changes? ( plus battle.net real id wow integration, ofc )
and zerg again? after all these patches, i can say that almost every zerg unit already had Infested Terran spell, remove it from the game already lol...
I think they should have just kept frenzy and made it give units a 50% speed boost. Imagine Ultralisks that outrun speedlings :-). Would give Ultras a solid role and frenzy a very useful abillity.
On July 08 2010 05:39 MaD.pYrO wrote: 500mb for this?! :S
There are tons of unlisted changes--new maps, new interface for starters
This. the interface alone is totally different, they have like 72 maps or some crazy shit, improved graphics, better connectivity serverwise, engine optimization etc.
sauce on new maps?
ooooh yeah that sounds good, i'll have some Ketchup on mine please, tasty new maps!
I meant... some guy said there are 72 new maps, where the hell did he get that from?
I don't like the rally point change for Zerg. I wish we had the option to set an attack-move rally as well.
From hatcheries, Zerg produces large amounts of units at once. And late game I often rally units to the opponents base, so I would create a flood of 25-50 zerglings and want them to attack anything on their way to the base.
I can see how it would be annoying for structures that only produce 1 unit at a time, that's they should give us the option to set an attack-move rally instead, or maybe just keep egg rallies as Attack-Move
On July 08 2010 05:42 neurolite wrote: This makes 250mm cannon pretty useless, not really sure how i'm gonna counter mass ultras now, I guess mass banshees?
Kite?
Day[9] daily episode 152 demonstrates why that Ultra buff Nerf was necessary imo.
250mm makes you stationary, so kiting's not really an option. So yes, it will still kill ultras but the ultras can attack while you're using it, not sure which would win in say a 3v3 fight between the two. And just because in the daily the thors crushed the ultras doesn't mean that the thors were uncounterable (yes i know that's a ridiculous word I just can't think of a better one right now), it just means that mass thors are a counter to mass ultra that the zerg player wasn't prepared for.
Rally points now behave as a move command, instead of an attack move command. Enabled the ability to manually add a StarCraft II character friend using the player's character code.
it's really shocking that theyre moving this ability. again. without changes, back to the infestor. I'm guessing it's cus they wanted to fill the void that the removal of Frenzy created
On July 08 2010 05:39 MaD.pYrO wrote: 500mb for this?! :S
There are tons of unlisted changes--new maps, new interface for starters
This. the interface alone is totally different, they have like 72 maps or some crazy shit, improved graphics, better connectivity serverwise, engine optimization etc.
sauce on new maps?
ooooh yeah that sounds good, i'll have some Ketchup on mine please, tasty new maps!
I meant... some guy said there are 72 new maps, where the hell did he get that from?
I know, he was obviously wrong, just like your spelling of the word source
Generally pleased with these patch notes, would have been nice to have seen some new maps though, and changes to the Carrier (a reduced build time and cost perhaps?) and Mothership. There is plenty of time for all that though, I just can't wait for the servers to come back up now.
I don't know if I like the Zerg change. I mean, Frenzy being removed makes sense since it was a stupid idea in the first place, but making one unit in the game immune to mind control and stun? Kind of weird.
On July 08 2010 05:53 Duban wrote: I think they should have just kept frenzy and made it give units a 50% speed boost. Imagine Ultralisks that outrun speedlings :-). Would give Ultras a solid role and frenzy a very useful abillity.
Ultralisks should also have an upgrade to grow wings and fly over cliffs and canyons. Ultralisks faster than speedlings would not be overpowered at all.
On July 08 2010 05:56 Syhn wrote: What does the rally point change do exactly?
In the past, when you spawned units they would act as if you had A-Moved while moving to their location. This means that they would wander and attack after anything they crossed, so let's say you ran across a scouting SCV, they would chase it down forever.
The new change makes it so rally is M-move, which means they will move and ignore anything seen, being attacked, etc.
Honestly, I prefer this change, you can always A-move yourself if you need to. This causes much fewer "Where's Waldo the Ultralisk?" problems which I ran into every once in a while.
On July 08 2010 05:39 MaD.pYrO wrote: 500mb for this?! :S
There are tons of unlisted changes--new maps, new interface for starters
This. the interface alone is totally different, they have like 72 maps or some crazy shit, improved graphics, better connectivity serverwise, engine optimization etc.
sauce on new maps?
ooooh yeah that sounds good, i'll have some Ketchup on mine please, tasty new maps!
I meant... some guy said there are 72 new maps, where the hell did he get that from?
I know, he was obviously wrong, just like your spelling of the word source
On July 08 2010 05:56 Syhn wrote: What does the rally point change do exactly?
When units are produced out of buildings instead of attack-moving to the rally point they just move. It's good. There was a game I lost b/c a protoss player cannon rushed me and while i stopped him from advancing with creep half the units I produced ran into his cannons without support and died.
On July 08 2010 05:46 n3mo wrote: is it just me, or do a lot of those achievements (if they're real) reference tf2? and does 250 mm cannon really have much use now? the stun capability was useful for stopping large/massive units, but as the colossus outranges, and enemy thors have the same range, i don't see much point in it now. perhaps just immortals =P
It still does 500 damage at 83.333 dps (somewhat below twice the dps of the next biggest single target dps dealer--the ultralisk vs armored).
Probably you need to buffer armored units with hellions and let your thors whack on them. 15 damage per swipe isn't too much, and the splash is only 5 damage per swipe. So your 90 health hellions, thanks to their rather large unit radius (for their cost), are a great option.
the animation takes 2 secs for it to bear it's cannons, 6 secs to shoot, and 2 secs to put them away. A total of 10 secs for the animation / ability. That's 500 / 10 = 50 DPS.
A thor does just a little less without the need for getting the 250mm upgrade. It's good for avoiding armor though.
On July 08 2010 05:57 XFire wrote: I don't know if I like the Zerg change. I mean, Frenzy being removed makes sense since it was a stupid idea in the first place, but making one unit in the game immune to mind control and stun? Kind of weird.
It's a big hulking beast. Makes perfect sense to me. At least the immune to stun part.
On July 08 2010 05:39 MaD.pYrO wrote: 500mb for this?! :S
There are tons of unlisted changes--new maps, new interface for starters
This. the interface alone is totally different, they have like 72 maps or some crazy shit, improved graphics, better connectivity serverwise, engine optimization etc.
sauce on new maps?
ooooh yeah that sounds good, i'll have some Ketchup on mine please, tasty new maps!
I meant... some guy said there are 72 new maps, where the hell did he get that from?
I know, he was obviously wrong, just like your spelling of the word source
really good patch. i think it was a real clean and nice decision to remove frenzy and make ultra immune to stun, this ofcourse will require updates on the 250m cannon cause it had no purpose anymore
why dont they add a "Attack-rallypoint" that assigns by clicking a then on the ground with ur hatchery or w/e and a normal right click is normal rally point, seems logical to me to have it like this but im glad move is default
Looks like one of those is a Xel'naga portrait. Check out the beast thing with the psionic energy
I see two units that appear to be either Xel'naga or infested protoss... both of which would be fucking amazing. Also the thing that looks like a human with red skin, predator jaws, and big teeth... Is that a changeling? Or is it some other unit i don't recognize?
On July 08 2010 05:39 MaD.pYrO wrote: 500mb for this?! :S
There are tons of unlisted changes--new maps, new interface for starters
This. the interface alone is totally different, they have like 72 maps or some crazy shit, improved graphics, better connectivity serverwise, engine optimization etc.
sauce on new maps?
ooooh yeah that sounds good, i'll have some Ketchup on mine please, tasty new maps!
I meant... some guy said there are 72 new maps, where the hell did he get that from?
I know, he was obviously wrong, just like your spelling of the word source
Generally pleased with these patch notes, would have been nice to have seen some new maps though, and changes to the Carrier (a reduced build time and cost perhaps?) and Mothership. There is plenty of time for all that though, I just can't wait for the servers to come back up now.
Yea, The info I got it from was http://www.sc2mapster.com/announcements/new-patch-features/ The format they used when presenting the latest patch makes it look like 72 maps when they meant "7, 2 player maps I thought it looked like "72 maps".... I misread, sorry people.
The new rally point is good, a little more micro when you are being attacked and under pressure is good for the game. Thankfully they removed frenzy it was uninspired and useless. Unfortunately they still keep the most embarrassingly stupid spell the Infested Terran. GET RID OF IT!
ever since i saw dimaga use infested terran (when it was still on the infestor) to break a terran defensive encampment on a ledge on LT, i've decided that the unit prolly has some undiscovered, albeit situational, uses. so, unless the spell remains at 100 energy per cast, i'm pretty happy that they removed it from the overseer.
On July 08 2010 05:59 sMi.NewB wrote: I prefer the rally point to be attack move! that sucks that it changed. why do you guys prefer the other way? just cause BW was like that?
It requires more skill so why not? I support the change to move instead of attack-move.
YES I love the rally point change, god that shit was annoying to no end and lol@ infestor changes.. I'm interested to see what else they're gonna to them. Hey sup we gave the Infestor a new ability and removed Infested Terrans, lol jk get trolled bitches, we're switching it back.
250 mm cannon will still be the best counter for ultras, even if they don't stun.
Assuming you have equal resources & supply, thors w/ 250 mm strike cannon + X will always beat ultras + X. Dealing 500 damage in such a short amount of time is insane, regardless of stun.
Looks like one of those is a Xel'naga portrait. Check out the beast thing with the psionic energy
I see two units that appear to be either Xel'naga or infested protoss... both of which would be fucking amazing. Also the thing that looks like a human with red skin, predator jaws, and big teeth... Is that a changeling? Or is it some other unit i don't recognize?
On July 08 2010 05:59 sMi.NewB wrote: I prefer the rally point to be attack move! that sucks that it changed. why do you guys prefer the other way? just cause BW was like that?
It requires more skill so why not? I support the change to move instead of attack-move.
I don't really think it's the implementation of skill disparities, which tbh is not really a good thing in the first place (Imagine how terrible it would be if worker rally didn't work, or you could only select 16 units still). I think it's just a preference change to something that makes people more able to organize their units effectively.
It's more likely in most cases that people want to have their units move into a rally position directly and they want them in that rally position, they don't want them out wandering about. Which is honestly good for me, and you'll all get used to it. Attack move was honestly more annoying personally due to the wandering problem they had while moving as a result.
Rally points now behave as a move command, instead of an attack move command. this is retarded a good example i can think of is when zerg is being attacked early and all your hatches have 1 rally point and everything spawns and instanly dies because they arnt attacking its like miss micro this the stupidest patch ever seriously what were they thinking whem making this? this is gonna cause so many problemes.. like why blizzard... why what was wrong before....
On July 08 2010 06:02 Silent12ill wrote: Who is going to waste energy on infested terran...
I can imagine it having some use. Infestor drop in the rear of the base (or burrow move to expansions with no detection): unburrow > fungal growth > infested terran > burrow and leave
I wouldn't be surprised to see this used by high level zerg
The ultra change seems strange. Its like they gave it auto frenzy without the dmg which it doesnt need anyways because it does nearly as much as an immortal with splash. It kinda proves that they only put in frenzy to get people to use ultras without thinking about other uses(Altough frenzy baneling drop was sweet but honestly who did that).
Also didn´t they remove infested terrans from the infestor because they thought it wasn´t used? So why return it instead of thinking of something that can be used in more situations. But anyways infestors already are awsome, probable the best new zerg unit imo.
And overseers will still be annoing as shit with corruption. At least they cannot bore the workers at my mineral line to death anymore by droping infested terrans.
On July 08 2010 06:02 BlasiuS wrote: 250 mm cannon will still be the best counter for ultras, even if they don't stun.
Assuming you have equal resources & supply, thors w/ 250 mm strike cannon + X will always beat ultras + X. Dealing 500 damage in such a short amount of time is insane, regardless of stun.
as funny as this sounds but in a real battle scenario i almost believe thors with 3-0 will be more efficient against ultra not using the m250 cannon just because of the overkill factor. you prepare for 250 it gets killed by other units and then ur thor ended up being idle for nothing or the other way around that u prepare and ur thor dies. there are just tons of situations where the thor wont get the attack off in a battle. i dont know the exact math of this but once u target an ultralisk i believe ud be forced to get at least 3/4 of the m250 on the ultra off to make it pay off compared to normal attacking. and the chances of the ultra surviving for that long is pretty thin
ultralisk is probably still gonna suck against thors, i dont think this changes alot as i was never convinced the m250 was that good ever since it became an upgrade
On July 08 2010 06:04 perfectflaw72 wrote: Rally points now behave as a move command, instead of an attack move command. this is retarded a good example i can think of is when zerg is being attacked early and all your hatches have 1 rally point and everything spawns and instanly dies because they arnt attacking its like miss micro this the stupidest patch ever seriously what were they thinking whem making this? this is gonna cause so many problemes.. like why blizzard... why what was wrong before....
Yep, now you actually have to be paying attention.
Good changes all around. Assuming the infested terran is just a placeholder atm just so that frenzy could get removed.
On July 08 2010 06:04 perfectflaw72 wrote: Rally points now behave as a move command, instead of an attack move command. this is retarded a good example i can think of is when zerg is being attacked early and all your hatches have 1 rally point and everything spawns and instanly dies because they arnt attacking its like miss micro this the stupidest patch ever seriously what were they thinking whem making this? this is gonna cause so many problemes.. like why blizzard... why what was wrong before....
Dude, you can't micro worth shit, that doesn't mean everyone else should suffer because of it. The fact of the matter is that you get more control over your units this way. This is in no way shape or form "retarded".
Looks like one of those is a Xel'naga portrait. Check out the beast thing with the psionic energy
I'm more worried about having Taurens in space suits. Keep WoW out of my SC, Blizzard, I'm serious, that shit is completely inexcusable
You should boycott.
I feel dirty like a troll now...
I don't think there's really any zerg nerfs in this, only zerg changes for better or worse. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Are you saying you're fine with races that have nothing to do with the SC universe randomly popping up on avatars?
I'm fine with easter eggs. They're funny and entertaining. Everything doesn't have to be serious business. For gosh sake, it's a game afterall, it's meant to have fun, also for the developers.
And no, this is not a launching point for you to say "WELL MAYBE THEY SHOULD TAKE DEVELOPING XYZ FEATURES MORE SERIOUSLY!" This is just something fun and easy they like to implement for lols.
Do you also hate all the easter eggs in the achievement names? GET YOUR BIOSHOCK OUT OF MY SC2!
Frenzy was an ugly attempt to make the Ultra more useful. Now it's not as ugly, but making a single unit immune to stun and slow is kinda weird to. They could make massive units immune to stun (lol thors actually killing each other), but they can't make massive units immune to MC. Then again I am perfectly fine with Ultras not being useful against Infestor supported armies.
Whaaaat! Rally points changed back to move instead of attack move... but I thought that was so great! maybe it makes zerg too OP in regards to re-inforcing an ongoing attack. Abusing this + creep late game can really make your opponent run like a little schoolgirl all around the map while u just macro away, you barely have to micro with this feature in that situation.
The other thing, infestors getting back infested terran, im not so sure about this. I dont mind it changing back but whats the reason, im curious... overseer had too many abilities maybe? Id rather spend my energy on changelings and corruption anyways, good call i guess.
Removing frenzy was a bit of a no brainer, only effective to use on ultras. Mostly to stop them from getting stunned by thors, which seriously will happen so rarely in games, so give the Ultras a passive -cannot be stunned- ability. ok sure thats cool.
Also, now u cant neural parasite an ultra zvz. yea....
On July 08 2010 06:03 seedfreedom wrote: Am i the only one that like the "rally is attack move" setting?
It's probably because you are used to it. Units are supposed to do what you tell them not just go off randomly chasing other units. Biggest example I can think of in Sc2 is ZvP where zealots are attacking your natural hatchery while you attempt to build up enough zerglings to engage. Every single time a zergling pair pops out of its egg, it attacks the zealots. This will often cause you to lose one or at least take damage because they won't move to the desired destination.
the rally point should be a toggle. depending on what's spawning where you might want it to attack move and you might not. the "you should pay more attention" is just stupid. that's like saying they should only let you select 12 units because it's too easy to play if you can select more. it's why sc2 is so much better than sc1. much less painful to play.
On July 08 2010 06:09 boblzer0 wrote: the rally point should be a toggle. depending on what's spawning where you might want it to attack move and you might not. the "you should pay more attention" is just stupid. that's like saying they should only let you select 12 units because it's too easy to play if you can select more. it's why sc2 is so much better than sc1. much less painful to play.
This isn't that arbitrary though. There are reasons why you would want to have your units move as opposed to attack-move. Though there are also reasons why you may want them to attack-move as opposed to move. It's pretty much a 50/50 splitish decision. I personally like it more because it gives you the chance to micro into attack move. It is very very challenging to micro out of attack move (Your units will rush in and start getting slammed, if you're getting attacked is the common example).
On July 08 2010 05:39 MaD.pYrO wrote: 500mb for this?! :S
There are tons of unlisted changes--new maps, new interface for starters
This. the interface alone is totally different, they have like 72 maps or some crazy shit, improved graphics, better connectivity serverwise, engine optimization etc.
i think i saw this too but what is soo funny is that no 1 is 1v1 map
On July 08 2010 06:03 seedfreedom wrote: Am i the only one that like the "rally is attack move" setting?
It's probably because you are used to it. Units are supposed to do what you tell them not just go off randomly chasing other units. Biggest example I can think of in Sc2 is ZvP where zealots are attacking your natural hatchery while you attempt to build up enough zerglings to engage. Every single time a zergling pair pops out of its egg, it attacks the zealots. This will often cause you to lose one or at least take damage because they won't move to the desired destination.
I guess thats part of it, but also if im getting Zealot rushed or Zergling rushed and i really need that Zealot to pop and start fighting immediately, it doesn't and just walks to its death by getting surrounded as soon as it pops, and i spend 10 mins trying to set a really close rally so they don't insta die. With the attack setting, they didnt bother moving and fought right away.
Even before 250mm was moved to an upgrade, it wasn't being used that often. It probably doesn't make the biggest deal in terms of balance since thors have so much utility without it, but it's such a cool ability that I'd like it if it was more useful.
Looks like one of those is a Xel'naga portrait. Check out the beast thing with the psionic energy
I see two units that appear to be either Xel'naga or infested protoss... both of which would be fucking amazing. Also the thing that looks like a human with red skin, predator jaws, and big teeth... Is that a changeling? Or is it some other unit i don't recognize?
lmao Dustin Browder is there! Wearing some sort of green suit with facial scars wrought upon him from the lashes of his master, Bobby Kotick.
seriously how do you have 3+ weeks for the next patch and only come up with "you know that crappy spell that replaced that even worse spell? lets just change that back." worst beta ever
really good to see the rally point change... now units will actually go where i want them. Infested terrans still kinda useless and ultras are now pretty good. overall good patch
Looks like one of those is a Xel'naga portrait. Check out the beast thing with the psionic energy
I'm more worried about having Taurens in space suits. Keep WoW out of my SC, Blizzard, I'm serious, that shit is completely inexcusable
You should boycott.
I feel dirty like a troll now...
I don't think there's really any zerg nerfs in this, only zerg changes for better or worse. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Are you saying you're fine with races that have nothing to do with the SC universe randomly popping up on avatars?
I'm fine with easter eggs. They're funny and entertaining. Everything doesn't have to be serious business. For gosh sake, it's a game afterall, it's meant to have fun, also for the developers.
And no, this is not a launching point for you to say "WELL MAYBE THEY SHOULD TAKE DEVELOPING XYZ FEATURES MORE SERIOUSLY!" This is just something fun and easy they like to implement for lols.
Do you also hate all the easter eggs in the achievement names? GET YOUR BIOSHOCK OUT OF MY SC2!
I don't care about achievements at all, and they have nothing to do with the universe. They're a meta-aspect, part of the MP experience. Avatars, on the other hand, are representations of the actual SC universe in addition to being a meta-aspect. So no, I don't hate all easter eggs, not that it matters (as that's a fallacious argument and borderline a strawman). However, I do dislike having an impure universe and things that meddle with the lore, and are just plain silly. Taurens have no business existing in the SC universe, as it's ludicrous, and not in any way cute or funny.
On July 08 2010 05:39 MaD.pYrO wrote: 500mb for this?! :S
There are tons of unlisted changes--new maps, new interface for starters
This. the interface alone is totally different, they have like 72 maps or some crazy shit, improved graphics, better connectivity serverwise, engine optimization etc.
i think i saw this too but what is soo funny is that no 1 is 1v1 map
there is no new map Sixen is wrong.
Coalition is now named Tarsonis Assault. Decena is now named Monlyth Ridge.
Well any argument for the rally change can be made against the change also, so it's really just changing it so panic situations don't screw you over too much i guess, which makes it alot more new-player friendly.
Argument for the change: "If you can't pay attention to your units to keep them from getting killed without attacking back it's your own fault"
Argument against the change: "if you can't pay attention to your units to keep them from running off and getting killed it's your own fault"
Oh man, rally > move is so great. I always thought the most irritating thing was when a toss was pushing early and I needed to save up my speedlings, but the moment they popped, they would sprint towards the oncoming force.
Rally > attack move has really only caused more problems for me than it solved.
Browder's portrait has been around for a while now, I know I saw it floating around during late phase 1 at least, but now there are 2 of him that I saw, which is sad.
On July 08 2010 06:03 seedfreedom wrote: Am i the only one that like the "rally is attack move" setting?
It's probably because you are used to it. Units are supposed to do what you tell them not just go off randomly chasing other units. Biggest example I can think of in Sc2 is ZvP where zealots are attacking your natural hatchery while you attempt to build up enough zerglings to engage. Every single time a zergling pair pops out of its egg, it attacks the zealots. This will often cause you to lose one or at least take damage because they won't move to the desired destination.
I guess thats part of it, but also if im getting Zealot rushed or Zergling rushed and i really need that Zealot to pop and start fighting immediately, it doesn't and just walks to its death by getting surrounded as soon as it pops, and i spend 10 mins trying to set a really close rally so they don't insta die. With the attack setting, they didnt bother moving and fought right away.
In that situation, you'd just right click your rally point on your production building, and your units would attack as they popped out. That's how you would resolve that issue. If you wanted to rally your units instead, which is also a choice, you can click off.
My general argument in favor is that you can micro in favor of attacking while spawning, while you can't micro in favor of moving easily without getting hit, which is something I think you got.
I think the one thing that we all can agree is good in SC2 for base defense is that your unit will pop out of the rally point side, so you can micro like that to put your ranged units opposite the opponents melee units when they show up.
Just out of curiosity, no one probally knows yet, but a question nonetheless. If ultras are immune to stun now which is of coursed caused by 3 units to my knowledge: fungal growth, 250mm cannons, and concusive shells. Just taking into account the cannons the if the cannons are fired but the ultra moves out the thors attack range does the cannon stop or is it more like yamato (at least in sc1 it worked this way) where there are only 4 ways to prevent yamato from reaching you. Load into a transport, recall the unit, cloak/burrow, or go into a nydus canal.
edit: _____________________________________
On July 08 2010 06:12 koppik wrote: Even before 250mm was moved to an upgrade, it wasn't being used that often. It probably doesn't make the biggest deal in terms of balance since thors have so much utility without it, but it's such a cool ability that I'd like it if it was more useful.
True it probally wasn't used as much as probally should have been. After it got moved to an upgrade it was more used on the things imho that it was meant to be used on. To clarify on this the cannons weren't meant for you to spawn 2 thors and then rush the zergs fast expand and kill it instantly than have dropships arrive to carry your thors back. Moving it to an upgrade means that terran players imo don't upgrade unless they are planning to build enough thors to make the upgrade worth it and their opponent is building stuff that the cannons would allow you to use effectively and could not be killed as effectively by other means. (ie banshees 4-5 can kill a building pretty fast, tanks on cliff 2 can kill a building pretty fast, yamato can kill units or buildings pretty fast, ect.) ________________________________________
On July 08 2010 06:13 Ideas wrote: seriously how do you have 3+ weeks for the next patch and only come up with "you know that crappy spell that replaced that even worse spell? lets just change that back." worst beta ever
We knew all along the changes would be extremely minor so no idea why you expected more.
The rally point alone makes me happy about this patch. Removal of Frenzy was also nice, throw that spell back to Warcraft. Infested Terran change also ok even if the ability still kinda sucks, at least on the infestor it was sometimes used, although rarely. Don't think I ever saw an infested terran coming from an overseer in 1v1.
On July 08 2010 06:12 koppik wrote: Even before 250mm was moved to an upgrade, it wasn't being used that often. It probably doesn't make the biggest deal in terms of balance since thors have so much utility without it, but it's such a cool ability that I'd like it if it was more useful.
frankly there was only about a week or so where ultras were being used against terran mech. I don't think patch 14/15 were played enough to see thors & 250 mm cannon get used to their fullest extent.
I'm pretty sure that once zerg gets 3+ ultras, 250 mm strike cannon will always be worth getting.
On July 08 2010 06:15 terranghost wrote: Just out of curiosity, no one probally knows yet, but a question nonetheless. If ultras are immune to stun now which is of coursed caused by 3 units to my knowledge: fungal growth, 250mm cannons, and concusive shells. Just taking into account the cannons the if the cannons are fired but the ultra moves out the thors attack range does the cannon stop or is it more like yamato (at least in sc1 it worked this way) where there are only 4 ways to prevent yamato from reaching you. Load into a transport, recall the unit, cloak/burrow, or go into a nydus canal.
Concussive shells is a SLOW not a stun (they were immune to slow before), fungal growth may or may not be considered a snare instead of a stun, i don't know. And yeah if you leave the range the thor stops attacking, it worked this way w/ frenzies ultras.
On July 08 2010 05:36 getSome[703] wrote: Ultralisk
Now immune to stuns and mind control.
I wonder how long it will take for this arms race to reach it's only logical conclusion, where any unit worth mind controlling is immune. The monthership, battlecruisers, carriers, and thors are all in line to receive a similar exemption. Let's be honest, we all know how badly neural parasite wtfpwns thors and how lol-worthy it is to NP a mothership. No one has ever used a battlecruiser or carrier against me but I reckon the situation for them is similar. I excluded colossi because they have the range to counter the NP on their own so they aren't wtfpwned so hard by NP.
By the way I totally agree with whoever suggested a `toggle` for rally points, setting it to either Attack-Move or just Move. yes that would be a very good idea.
On July 08 2010 06:15 terranghost wrote: Just out of curiosity, no one probally knows yet, but a question nonetheless. If ultras are immune to stun now which is of coursed caused by 3 units to my knowledge: fungal growth, 250mm cannons, and concusive shells. Just taking into account the cannons the if the cannons are fired but the ultra moves out the thors attack range does the cannon stop or is it more like yamato (at least in sc1 it worked this way) where there are only 4 ways to prevent yamato from reaching you. Load into a transport, recall the unit, cloak/burrow, or go into a nydus canal.
i dont know about the actual question although stun was only caused by the m250 cannon. fungal growth just made u immobilized and concussive shells slowed move speed
i do believe that if u exit the thor m250 with frenzy (which doesnt exist now) or with immunity to stun or w/e will just cause the thor to stop attacking, 90% sure about this :p (to be even more honest im 100% guessing)
I thought you could shift-click your rally point a few times to create a rally path? Have we confirmed that you can't hold shift, then right click, A, left click to create an attack-move rally point anyway?
'IN STARCRAFT YOU VIEW THE BATTLE FROM ABOVE AS THE COMMANDER OF AN ARMY, YOU USE YOUR MOUSE TO CONTROL YOUR VIEW OF THE BATTLEFIELD AND GIVE INSTRUCTIONS TO UNIT UNDER YOUR COMMAND'
Making ultras the de-facto mech killer is really dangerous for game balance. Terran's only other real option is MMM which basically all Zerg players can absolutely manhandle with infestors at this point.
On July 08 2010 06:09 boblzer0 wrote: the rally point should be a toggle. depending on what's spawning where you might want it to attack move and you might not. the "you should pay more attention" is just stupid. that's like saying they should only let you select 12 units because it's too easy to play if you can select more. it's why sc2 is so much better than sc1. much less painful to play.
This isn't that arbitrary though. There are reasons why you would want to have your units move as opposed to attack-move. Though there are also reasons why you may want them to attack-move as opposed to move. It's pretty much a 50/50 splitish decision. I personally like it more because it gives you the chance to micro into attack move. It is very very challenging to micro out of attack move (Your units will rush in and start getting slammed, if you're getting attacked is the common example).
i was thinking like if i play zerg and i have 3 hatches i may want some of them to spawn attack move some of the time and i'd just flip a toggle on the hatch to change it. seems simple enough..
On July 08 2010 06:22 j4vz wrote: OMG the tutorial for terran is really BS....
there is a voice tellin you:
'IN STARCRAFT YOU VIEW THE BATTLE FROM ABOVE AS THE COMMANDER OF AN ARMY, YOU USE YOUR MOUSE TO CONTROL YOUR VIEW OF THE BATTLEFIELD AND GIVE INSTRUCTIONS TO UNIT UNDER YOUR COMMAND'
lol so basic.
Um, it is for people who have never played an RTS before, not that strange at all.
On July 08 2010 06:22 Klumaster wrote: I thought you could shift-click your rally point a few times to create a rally path? Have we confirmed that you can't hold shift, then right click, A, left click to create an attack-move rally point anyway?
On July 08 2010 06:23 iEchoic wrote: Making ultras the de-facto mech killer is really dangerous for game balance. Terran's only other real option is MMM which basically all Zerg players can absolutely manhandle with infestors at this point.
you mean besides vikings, B-cruisers, ravens,banshees,drops,ghosts,reaper harrass?
you can always try other stuff out before knocking everything aside. that's SC1 Syndrome where you assume only what you see is viable.
On July 08 2010 06:12 koppik wrote: Even before 250mm was moved to an upgrade, it wasn't being used that often. It probably doesn't make the biggest deal in terms of balance since thors have so much utility without it, but it's such a cool ability that I'd like it if it was more useful.
frankly there was only about a week or so where ultras were being used against terran mech. I don't think patch 14/15 were played enough to see thors & 250 mm cannon get used to their fullest extent.
I'm pretty sure that once zerg gets 3+ ultras, 250 mm strike cannon will always be worth getting.
Keep in mind that simply because your opponent is getting ultras is not o I have no choice but get the cannons...
You must make sure you can deal with the infestors first.. If you have the cannons researched when the infestor NP's you the zerg player has the cannon upgrade as well. Thors are not immune to stun therefore once a NPed thor cannons another thor you have 2 choices a kill the infestor or b kill your own thor before the cannons finish. Its all about what zergs composition is as compared to what the terrans composition is.
On July 08 2010 06:23 iEchoic wrote: Making ultras the de-facto mech killer is really dangerous for game balance. Terran's only other real option is MMM which basically all Zerg players can absolutely manhandle with infestors at this point.
As for right now, they're only a part of the puzzle.
I agree that it's a very bad idea to base anti mech solely on the Ultra, though.
On July 08 2010 06:22 Klumaster wrote: I thought you could shift-click your rally point a few times to create a rally path? Have we confirmed that you can't hold shift, then right click, A, left click to create an attack-move rally point anyway?
No, hitting "A" won't do anything because you have a building selected, not a unit. You CAN shift queue waypoints, ie tell the units to walk to different places, but you can't shift attack move until the units actually exist.
People who prefer the Attack-move rally never played BW. It's extremely frustrating when the opponent pushes on the borders of your base and the new spawning units just suicide into the opponent. It's a lot more beneficiary to rally your units to move to further inside your base to perhaps a static defense structure and muster a big enough force to surround the opponent. So no, it's not just a "pay more attention" change.
I guess they were trying to remove the shared keys between locations and heroes...but failed because F8 is still used for both. Plus its not even on the same group F keys because F12 is the help menu (which I really hope they remove from the in-game screen).
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but the rally point change is probably to just add a little more micro into the game. If you misrallied before, your units would at least attack and do some damage but now you must be extra careful to get your rally point's correct.
On July 08 2010 06:33 cHaNg-sTa wrote: People who prefer the Attack-move rally never played BW. It's extremely frustrating when the opponent pushes on the borders of your base and the new spawning units just suicide into the opponent. It's a lot more beneficiary to rally your units to move to further inside your base to perhaps a static defense structure and muster a big enough force to surround the opponent. So no, it's not just a "pay more attention" change.
exactly, it's to make rally's "easier" for players. which i guess i support.
Sorry that this is slightly off topic... I'm guessing that our screen names will be the same as beta phase 1 but we'll be able to pick new ones for the final release, right? *noob*
On July 08 2010 06:38 Winks wrote: Sorry that this is slightly off topic... I'm guessing that our screen names will be the same as beta phase 1 but we'll be able to pick new ones for the final release, right? *noob*
In the 1st phase you could change your name everytime they reset the ladder servers. This time should be no different.
On July 08 2010 06:33 cHaNg-sTa wrote: People who prefer the Attack-move rally never played BW. It's extremely frustrating when the opponent pushes on the borders of your base and the new spawning units just suicide into the opponent. It's a lot more beneficiary to rally your units to move to further inside your base to perhaps a static defense structure and muster a big enough force to surround the opponent. So no, it's not just a "pay more attention" change.
exactly, it's to make rally's "easier" for players. which i guess i support.
It's notably frustrating vs bunker rushes as Zerg. Especially as you literally have to babysit when your queen comes out, and even then it will still take excessive hits, even if you're watching it, just because it will move a few steps before you can possibly click and give the move command.
On July 08 2010 06:38 Winks wrote: Sorry that this is slightly off topic... I'm guessing that our screen names will be the same as beta phase 1 but we'll be able to pick new ones for the final release, right? *noob*
In the 1st phase you could change your name everytime they reset the ladder servers. This time should be no different.
No, its an ingenious way to make macro harder with MBS.. The guys @ the round table spent half the downtime on the idea when they saw a year old article on why it was significant, and finally understood.
On July 08 2010 06:33 cHaNg-sTa wrote: People who prefer the Attack-move rally never played BW. It's extremely frustrating when the opponent pushes on the borders of your base and the new spawning units just suicide into the opponent. It's a lot more beneficiary to rally your units to move to further inside your base to perhaps a static defense structure and muster a big enough force to surround the opponent. So no, it's not just a "pay more attention" change.
exactly, it's to make rally's "easier" for players. which i guess i support.
It's notably frustrating vs bunker rushes as Zerg. Especially as you literally have to babysit when your queen comes out, and even then it will still take excessive hits, even if you're watching it, just because it will move a few steps before you can possibly click and give the move command.
I don't think this will affect queens though will it? Queens don't follow the rally point so they might be unaffected by this change.
On July 08 2010 06:44 Mr.E wrote: Umm.. they made ultras weaker I thought to balance the effect of frenzy? Did they forget to compensate for removing it or am I wrong?
Well they can't be stunned / mined controlled at all now, which is quite nice. However I'd agree on a HP increase of 50-100 HP.
On July 08 2010 06:44 Mr.E wrote: Umm.. they made ultras weaker I thought to balance the effect of frenzy? Did they forget to compensate for removing it or am I wrong?
No, its an ingenious way to make macro harder with MBS.. The guys @ the round table spent half the downtime on the idea when they saw a year old article on why it was significant, and finally understood.
and what happen if you use the Fkeys for transfert your worker to the other base like if you get storm drop you have a sec to react and move them bfr they blow up
Edit: i think they should put f key on F2F3F4, and for thos map maker able to put hero selectionF2F3F4F5F6F7F8 and in the campaigne this isn't that big of a deal to don't have Fkeys
While the no stun on Ultras is good--they're slow enough already!--why not no stun on anything massive? The no Neural Parasite, though, only opens up the slippery slope to giving each race something whose mind is inexplicably untouchable, like Jinro jested. Kinda takes the sport out of the ability if you're going to give it boundaries like that, even if only impractical ones (a ZvZ getting all the way to Ultras?).
As a zerg player I kinda question the stun immunity change they made. If the 250 mm cannons are such a problem why can't blizzard simply let players use micro overlord rescue pick ups to basically nullify the attack? I was hoping to use this strategy for phase 2 but with this change I guess it's alright to say.
On July 08 2010 06:49 Nifarious wrote: While the no stun on Ultras is good--they're slow enough already!--why not no stun on anything massive? The no Neural Parasite, though, only opens up the slippery slope to giving each race something whose mind is inexplicably untouchable, like Jinro jested. Kinda takes the sport out of the ability if you're going to give it boundaries like that, even if only impractical ones (a ZvZ getting all the way to Ultras?).
God, I hope they get the server running soon.
I dont see how units like thors can be MC and now Ultra's cant. I hope this will be altered before 27th.
No, its an ingenious way to make macro harder with MBS.. The guys @ the round table spent half the downtime on the idea when they saw a year old article on why it was significant, and finally understood.
and what happen if you use the Fkeys for transfert your worker to the other base like if you get storm drop you have a sec to react and move them bfr they blow up
Edit: i think they should put f key on F2F3F4, and for thos map maker able to put hero selectionF2F3F4F5F6F7F8 and in the campaigne this isn't that big of a deal to don't have Fkeys
I know its exciting how hard it's gunna be! I can't wait to try out the finger exercises I've been practicing for the last 3 hours.
On July 08 2010 06:43 Infiltrator wrote: The patch left me with a lot to be desired. I mean one month and they come up with this?
How can you patch when your playerbase isn't testing at all. You'd just balance out of the blue which is a bad idea :p
And i kinda disagree on the ultralisk part, i have a feeling broodlords will be playing a larger role as time progresses. But that's only me
They gathered a lot of information before the end of phase 1, they could have used that knowledge to make changes.. instead, they just did slight adjustments to one race.
Attack-move rally is a terrible idea. It really bothers me that during a game you can set rally points, hit a short key sequence, and win literarly without looking at your screen. You can already macro without having to look at your screen. I know that BW was tedious to play, but there has to be a balance.
On July 08 2010 05:37 theqat wrote: FINALLY rally points are move instead of attack move. Thank you, Blizzard
zomg yes I love this change.
So many times I am losing my hatch and I'm using the last couple of larvae to spawn units and rallying them into my main from my natural. So annoying when the units want to attack instead of just going where I want them to. GJ blizzard.
Hmm.. I didn't mind attack-move rally, i just thought it should have been an option and not the default.
Maybe allowing ultralisks to have an upgrade to be immune to stun/MC would be alright, passive buff seems over the top though
It seems odd to disable half a unit's spell functionality versus a single unit.
They removed the speed upgrade and made it passive for a good reason. This is a good thing, and might very well make them viable against terran in fairly open spaces.
Was this glitch with Infested Terrans (from Infestors) fixed?:
I hate that they gave in to the popular vote and removed frenzy. Frenzy was very useful for little tricks, like breaking Graviton beam, protection from neuro parasite and others. They shouldn't have had it removed. I think this revert is not good, the IT was giving extra meaning to overseers, and the frenzy was good with infestors. Hope there are even more negative responses now, so they flip back yet again.
Omfg Its here guys , Thank lord , I'm starting to feel more more intense about the game coming out. I love the fact that they took out frenzy , and put back IT's . Much more enjoyable. Tyvm Blizz.
We already know what T+Z hybrids look like and it's not that (see Infested Terran, Duran, and Infested Kerrigan). Also there's an achievement named Zerglot.
Rally point change is pretty huge and definitely a step in the right direction (sacrificing ease of play for micro requirements). However not sure about the ultra change. Who actually ever got to ultras in Zvz?what unit can actually stun, isnt it just the thor and fungal growth?
I hate that they gave in to the popular vote and removed frenzy. Frenzy was very useful for little tricks, like breaking Graviton beam, protection from neuro parasite and others. They shouldn't have had it removed. I think this revert is not good, the IT was giving extra meaning to overseers, and the frenzy was good with infestors. Hope there are even more negative responses now, so they flip back yet again.
frenzy was pretty shitty but ITs are waaaaaaaaaaaaay worse.
I TAKE BACK ALL THE SHIT I SAID ABOUT FRENZY BLIZZARD. JUST PLEASE GET RID OF FUCKING INFESTED TERRANS. PLEASE
We already know what T+Z hybrids look like and it's not that (see Infested Terran, Duran, and Infested Kerrigan). Also there's an achievement named Zerglot.
On July 08 2010 07:01 Disastorm wrote: Rally point change is pretty huge and definitely a step in the right direction (sacrificing ease of play for micro requirements). However not sure about the ultra change. Who actually ever got to ultras in Zvz?what unit can actually stun, isnt it just the thor and fungal growth?
On July 08 2010 07:01 Disastorm wrote: Rally point change is pretty huge and definitely a step in the right direction (sacrificing ease of play for micro requirements). However not sure about the ultra change. Who actually ever got to ultras in Zvz?what unit can actually stun, isnt it just the thor and fungal growth?
marauder was almost definitely the main reason for this. Theres also thor.
The attack move was more useful than annoying for me. I'd agree it was easier that way than BW made it without.
We already know what T+Z hybrids look like and it's not that (see Infested Terran, Duran, and Infested Kerrigan). Also there's an achievement named Zerglot.
protoss dont have mouths... that's really hte only trait that differs them from terran physically too. so i would assume infested protoss wouldnt have mouths.
We already know what T+Z hybrids look like and it's not that (see Infested Terran, Duran, and Infested Kerrigan). Also there's an achievement named Zerglot.
It just means a zerg player making a regular zealot. No hybrids involved.
Oh, and I'm glad to see frenzy go, useful as it may have been. Buffs are so WC3.
On July 08 2010 07:01 Disastorm wrote: Rally point change is pretty huge and definitely a step in the right direction (sacrificing ease of play for micro requirements). However not sure about the ultra change. Who actually ever got to ultras in Zvz?what unit can actually stun, isnt it just the thor and fungal growth?
marauder was almost definitely the main reason for this. Theres also thor.
Pretty sure marauder is not stun, its Slow, and Massive are already immune to it??
On July 08 2010 07:01 Disastorm wrote: Rally point change is pretty huge and definitely a step in the right direction (sacrificing ease of play for micro requirements). However not sure about the ultra change. Who actually ever got to ultras in Zvz?what unit can actually stun, isnt it just the thor and fungal growth?
what? the rally change increased ease of play.
lol man don't know what planet you come from. when players start using insane micro to manage their units, they sometimes forget to check units that are attacking their rallied armies. Any way you look at it, it requires more micro to constantly watch over your rallied units in case anything is attacking them. You can even see this in top brood war play sometimes rallied units get owned because they arent attacking.
The only case where attack move would require more micro is when you are under attack in your base and you dont want your units to attack.
On July 08 2010 06:33 cHaNg-sTa wrote: People who prefer the Attack-move rally never played BW. It's extremely frustrating when the opponent pushes on the borders of your base and the new spawning units just suicide into the opponent. It's a lot more beneficiary to rally your units to move to further inside your base to perhaps a static defense structure and muster a big enough force to surround the opponent. So no, it's not just a "pay more attention" change.
exactly, it's to make rally's "easier" for players. which i guess i support.
It's notably frustrating vs bunker rushes as Zerg. Especially as you literally have to babysit when your queen comes out, and even then it will still take excessive hits, even if you're watching it, just because it will move a few steps before you can possibly click and give the move command.
I don't think this will affect queens though will it? Queens don't follow the rally point so they might be unaffected by this change.
Balls. You got me. Haha. Well it was the same effect with Zerglings.
On July 08 2010 07:01 Disastorm wrote: Rally point change is pretty huge and definitely a step in the right direction (sacrificing ease of play for micro requirements). However not sure about the ultra change. Who actually ever got to ultras in Zvz?what unit can actually stun, isnt it just the thor and fungal growth?
what? the rally change increased ease of play.
lol man don't know what planet you come from. when players start using insane micro to manage their units, they sometimes forget to check units that are attacking their rallied armies. Any way you look at it, it requires more micro to constantly watch over your rallied units in case anything is attacking them. You can even see this in top brood war play sometimes rallied units get owned because they arent attacking.
The only case where attack move would require more micro is when you are under attack in your base and you dont want your units to attack.
So it's more difficult to look at you minimap, then order your units away from attack if they spawn near an attacking unit and start to go suicide by themselves?
We already know what T+Z hybrids look like and it's not that (see Infested Terran, Duran, and Infested Kerrigan). Also there's an achievement named Zerglot.
Looks like a terran infested. Because it has a nose. Protoss don't. Some kind of standard terran infestation, maybe. I mean, the original infested were kinda rushed, and kerrigan was too bad ass of a infestation process. Maybe the zerg took their time and found this as a balanced form. =P
We already know what T+Z hybrids look like and it's not that (see Infested Terran, Duran, and Infested Kerrigan). Also there's an achievement named Zerglot.
Looks like a terran infested. Because it has a nose. Protoss don't. Some kind of standard terran infestation, maybe. I mean, the original infested were kinda rushed, and kerrigan was too bad ass of a infestation process. Maybe the zerg took their time and found this as a balanced form. =P
OR It's a spliced Zerg/Terran and not just an infestation. Similiar to the attempts to Protos/Zerg Splice.
We already know what T+Z hybrids look like and it's not that (see Infested Terran, Duran, and Infested Kerrigan). Also there's an achievement named Zerglot.
Looks like a terran infested. Because it has a nose. Protoss don't. Some kind of standard terran infestation, maybe. I mean, the original infested were kinda rushed, and kerrigan was too bad ass of a infestation process. Maybe the zerg took their time and found this as a balanced form. =P
Well infestation wouldn't look the same as a hybrid. A zerglot would indicate a hybrid more so than an infested protoss. If you look at the picture right below that one it looks a little more like an infested protoss (it barely looks infested, but it does have a zerg jaw and it's between Zerg and Terran portraits).
The thing, to me, looks like it has a similar deep eye brow, pupil-less eye, and angular shoulders that a protoss does.
If it was an infested Terran you'd think it'd be next to the 2 other infested terrans on the same row.
Prince has a good point above me too. I suppose it could be a spliced human/zerg.
Not a fan of the rally point change. All you had to do was direct them manually if you did not want them attacking. Now if stuff is in your base next to your buildings they will likely get a free shot or 2.
Rally point change was completely necessary because lings come flying out of the eggs at a speed so high you can barely click on them. Thus you can't redirect them before they die to whatever by trying to fight it
On July 08 2010 07:21 Subversion wrote: Could someone explain to me exactly what a "stun" is? What kinds of things will the Ultra be immune to now?
Like a Thor's 250 mm cannon.
Personally... I was expecting a little... more. Even if they were working on a bunch of maps and stuff during all this time, you'd expect them to do some balance testing as well.
"Stun" is an effect of the 250mm cannon on the thor. During the duration of the 250mm cannon, the unit targeted can't move or attack; that is, it's "stunned".
On July 08 2010 07:20 JohnUCrazy wrote: I am glad they changed the whole rally and attack move option. Its makes it less noob friendly.
AKA they made it more annoying and unintuitive. If you tell a unit to walk somewhere, and something attacks it... of course it shouldn't defend itself. Sure, if you played lots of Brood War this isn't the case, as you're used to it. A sweeping majority of people who will ever buy Starcraft II have not touched Brood War.
I'm hoping that by default its a move command, and that you can a+ rally.
On July 08 2010 07:20 JohnUCrazy wrote: I am glad they changed the whole rally and attack move option. Its makes it less noob friendly.
AKA they made it more annoying and unintuitive. If you tell a unit to walk somewhere, and something attacks it... of course it shouldn't defend itself. Sure, if you played lots of Brood War this isn't the case, as you're used to it. A sweeping majority of people who will ever buy Starcraft II have not touched Brood War.
I'm hoping that by default its a move command, and that you can a+ rally.
I think that the Overseer should get the Mind control spell ( would need to upgrade to be able to use it ) that way Overseers arn't just made to be detection, And keep Fungal growth and Infested terran ( makes sense with it being a "infestor") that way it doesn't have to decide between 3 spells when the other 2 are obviously better than infested terran. So if the overseer has mind control the infestor has the 2 main spells of Fungal Growth and infested Terran and then with the overseer and mind control you can only move the unit to X range and when it reaches the max range you then have to move the overseer with the unit.
On July 08 2010 07:20 JohnUCrazy wrote: I am glad they changed the whole rally and attack move option. Its makes it less noob friendly.
AKA they made it more annoying and unintuitive. If you tell a unit to walk somewhere, and something attacks it... of course it shouldn't defend itself. Sure, if you played lots of Brood War this isn't the case, as you're used to it. A sweeping majority of people who will ever buy Starcraft II have not touched Brood War.
I'm hoping that by default its a move command, and that you can a+ rally.
well it's actually wrong, it's alot more noob friendly when you are under attack, and noob-equal when you aren't and less noob friendly if you are rallying WAAAAAAY off in places you shouldnt be.
May have missed this in the past few pages... but since they moved the IT back to the infester did they lower the energy cost of making those IT? or is it still 100 or 75 or w/e it was before phase 1 ended?
Love the rally point change. Like the cross game implementation. Hope the AI is as hard as some people who've played it says it is. Infestors should get infested Terrans. I mean, infested is right in the name!
On July 08 2010 07:32 LooseMoose wrote: May have missed this in the past few pages... but since they moved the IT back to the infester did they lower the energy cost of making those IT? or is it still 100 or 75 or w/e it was before phase 1 ended?
On July 08 2010 07:28 HDstarcraft wrote: For those who still want attack move to work, all you have to do is simply add a shift attack move command at the end of the building rally queue.
How are you going to issue an attack command with a building selected?
On July 08 2010 07:30 Smiggins wrote: I think that the Overseer should get the Mind control spell ( would need to upgrade to be able to use it ) that way Overseers arn't just made to be detection, And keep Fungal growth and Infested terran ( makes sense with it being a "infestor") that way it doesn't have to decide between 3 spells when the other 2 are obviously better than infested terran. So if the overseer has mind control the infestor has the 2 main spells of Fungal Growth and infested Terran and then with the overseer and mind control you can only move the unit to X range and when it reaches the max range you then have to move the overseer with the unit.
What do you guys think?
makes the infestor kinda crap and the overseer super imba.
Honestly, I kinda liked the damage bonus from frenzy. It didn't fit with the infestor at all, and I like IT more than frenzy, hopefully these changes don't make ultras a little too weak. 25% damage bonus on your ultras was no joke.
On July 08 2010 07:01 Disastorm wrote: Rally point change is pretty huge and definitely a step in the right direction (sacrificing ease of play for micro requirements). However not sure about the ultra change. Who actually ever got to ultras in Zvz?what unit can actually stun, isnt it just the thor and fungal growth?
what? the rally change increased ease of play.
lol man don't know what planet you come from. when players start using insane micro to manage their units, they sometimes forget to check units that are attacking their rallied armies. Any way you look at it, it requires more micro to constantly watch over your rallied units in case anything is attacking them. You can even see this in top brood war play sometimes rallied units get owned because they arent attacking.
The only case where attack move would require more micro is when you are under attack in your base and you dont want your units to attack.
So it's more difficult to look at you minimap, then order your units away from attack if they spawn near an attacking unit and start to go suicide by themselves?
I'd say yes mainly because it will require you to look at your minimap alot more than youre going to be preventing suiciding units.
I can super duper insanely guarantee you that noobs and probably people gold or below will either stop rallying out of their base or constantly lose units due to it.
On July 08 2010 05:39 PrinceXizor wrote: Something else which is VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT you now need to log in to Battle.net in order to use the offline Starcraft 2 editor. Meaning blizzard now has a way to mandate validation for offline services. which is one HUGE step towards LAN capabilities, and it also removes their only real excuse for not having LAN.
Very good catch by PrinceXizor, maybe they actually listened to the community. Why the hell would they say that they want SC2 to be more friendly to events and users and TAKE OUT the LAN option. That's the most bass-ackwards thinking ever.
On July 08 2010 05:39 PrinceXizor wrote: Something else which is VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT you now need to log in to Battle.net in order to use the offline Starcraft 2 editor. Meaning blizzard now has a way to mandate validation for offline services. which is one HUGE step towards LAN capabilities, and it also removes their only real excuse for not having LAN.
Wait, what is this? How do they validate the offline service? Is there a key given to you or something?
I can super duper insanely guarantee you that noobs and probably people gold or below will either stop rallying out of their base or constantly lose units due to it.
I've never rallied out of my base, it's easier to go back and tell my units what to do directly than to rally them and have then get sent to no where because of a scouting probe.
On July 08 2010 05:39 PrinceXizor wrote: Something else which is VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT you now need to log in to Battle.net in order to use the offline Starcraft 2 editor. Meaning blizzard now has a way to mandate validation for offline services. which is one HUGE step towards LAN capabilities, and it also removes their only real excuse for not having LAN.
Hm, that's an interesting way to look at it - I initially assumed it was because they considered the map editor less important so it didn't matter as much if the auth for that was cracked.
I can super duper insanely guarantee you that noobs and probably people gold or below will either stop rallying out of their base or constantly lose units due to it.
I've never rallied out of my base, it's easier to go back and tell my units what to do directly than to rally them and have then get sent to no where because of a scouting probe.
Thats may be because you were a good brood war player and got used to that mentality. I was only ever c- in Brood war and Move Rally was annoying as hell it was very hard for me to micro since my micro was not 150+ apm . In SC2 I rally outside my base quite often, especially when I'm attacking , it was alot easier with Attack Move and I've always been a top Platinum/Diamond player in SC2. This change will no doubt make it harder for me, but I think it helps the game overall and so I like it.
On July 08 2010 05:39 PrinceXizor wrote: Something else which is VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT you now need to log in to Battle.net in order to use the offline Starcraft 2 editor. Meaning blizzard now has a way to mandate validation for offline services. which is one HUGE step towards LAN capabilities, and it also removes their only real excuse for not having LAN.
Hm, that's an interesting way to look at it - I initially assumed it was because they considered the map editor less important so it didn't matter as much if the auth for that was cracked.
I think this is the most likely case. The map editor will probably be cracked in like 2 seconds.
[QUOTE]On July 08 2010 07:38 clusen wrote: [QUOTE]On July 08 2010 05:53 Deadlyhazard wrote: [url=http://i8.fastpic.ru/big/2010/0708/6e/eb6dbc199ddbf5fde81dea0772d8456e.jpg]http://i8.fastpic.ru/big/2010/0708/6e/eb6dbc199ddbf5fde81dea0772d8456e.jpg[/url] Panda, Priestress and Dustin Browder as Avas wtf?[/QUOTE]
They are paintings over the marine's helmet shield. I think the Panda one looks pretty tight actually.
On July 08 2010 07:30 Smiggins wrote: I think that the Overseer should get the Mind control spell ( would need to upgrade to be able to use it ) that way Overseers arn't just made to be detection, And keep Fungal growth and Infested terran ( makes sense with it being a "infestor") that way it doesn't have to decide between 3 spells when the other 2 are obviously better than infested terran. So if the overseer has mind control the infestor has the 2 main spells of Fungal Growth and infested Terran and then with the overseer and mind control you can only move the unit to X range and when it reaches the max range you then have to move the overseer with the unit.
What do you guys think?
So you're saying that there would be like 25 units with the ability to use Mind Control on the Zerg's side late game. And they would be flying. And ridiculously fast. And they act as transport. And they're Detectors. etc etc.
Oh, and FINALLY, A PATCH!!!!! BETA IS BACK, BABY!!!! (tomorrow)
On July 08 2010 07:53 Disastorm wrote: Thats may be because you were a good brood war player and got used to that mentality. I was only ever c- in Brood war and Move Rally was annoying as hell it was very hard for me to micro since my micro was not 150+ apm . In SC2 I rally outside my base all the time, it was alot easier with Attack Move and I've always been a top Platinum/Diamond player in SC2. This change will no doubt make it harder for me, but I think it helps the game overall and so I like it.
started playing BW when beta went down. I played Civ 4 as my strategy game before this. (as well as Age of mythology Titans back in the day.) But yeah this chance makes it easier for me.
On July 08 2010 05:39 PrinceXizor wrote: Something else which is VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT you now need to log in to Battle.net in order to use the offline Starcraft 2 editor. Meaning blizzard now has a way to mandate validation for offline services. which is one HUGE step towards LAN capabilities, and it also removes their only real excuse for not having LAN.
Hm, that's an interesting way to look at it - I initially assumed it was because they considered the map editor less important so it didn't matter as much if the auth for that was cracked.
Sounds likes it just a way to track who actually makes the games... eg embed account info from your battle.net account into the editor silently and then embedding all of that into every map you make so they can track it back.
On July 08 2010 07:53 Disastorm wrote: Thats may be because you were a good brood war player and got used to that mentality. I was only ever c- in Brood war and Move Rally was annoying as hell it was very hard for me to micro since my micro was not 150+ apm . In SC2 I rally outside my base all the time, it was alot easier with Attack Move and I've always been a top Platinum/Diamond player in SC2. This change will no doubt make it harder for me, but I think it helps the game overall and so I like it.
started playing BW when beta went down. I played Civ 4 as my strategy game before this. (as well as Age of mythology Titans back in the day.) But yeah this chance makes it easier for me.
I feel that if you dont have high micro, you may find yourself losing some units that you could have not lost otherwise.
I'm glad they're not afraid to just scrap a latest change. Ridiculously happy about that actually =) Although adding infested terran back to the infestor with alternatives being plagu and mind control is kinda silly.
Oh, ofc the move rally point, awesome, now... mbs. (jk, I like mbs =])
On July 08 2010 08:02 Disastorm wrote: Im dissapointed that there are barely any changes in this patch. I thought blizzard was gonna have a bunch of crap due to their long downtime.
A finished product the size of sc2 ready for release isnt enough I guess. oh wait yeah it is
On July 08 2010 08:02 Disastorm wrote: Im dissapointed that there are barely any changes in this patch. I thought blizzard was gonna have a bunch of crap due to their long downtime.
A finished product the size of sc2 ready for release isnt enough I guess. oh wait yeah it is
It's hardly what I would consider a finished product.
Zerg still doesn't seem zerglike and the only reason infested terran was even used all of a sudden is because the overseer didn't really have any other use. Now you remove Frenzy (which no one used) and added Infested Terran (which no one will use)
On July 08 2010 08:02 Disastorm wrote: Im dissapointed that there are barely any changes in this patch. I thought blizzard was gonna have a bunch of crap due to their long downtime.
A finished product the size of sc2 ready for release isnt enough I guess. oh wait yeah it is
It's hardly what I would consider a finished product.
Zerg still doesn't seem zerglike and the only reason infested terran was even used all of a sudden is because the overseer didn't really have any other use. Now you remove Frenzy (which no one used) and added Infested Terran (which no one will use)
Why? What's the point? Just remove both spells.
yea I'd rather have both removed than either be in the game at this point lol.
i actually KINDA liked the idea of IT on the overseer. it was still awful but I liked where they were going (making the overseer a harass caster and being able to drop some shitty unit somewhere to maybe fuck something up, like kill an SCV making a supply depot or something) and I hoped they would just change the model for the IT to something else and be done with it. it worked on the overseer beucase it's other 2 spells didnt overlap with it at ALL and I could actually see instances of having an overseer floating around and doing stuff with it.
moving the IT back to the infestor is SOOOOOOO stupid. i've lost all faith in the blizzard design team ever making a smart patch change again. and i highly doubt the expansions will have any better changes at this point.
I'm glad they're not afraid to just scrap a latest change. Ridiculously happy about that actually =) Although adding infested terran back to the infestor with alternatives being plagu and mind control is kinda silly.
Oh, ofc the move rally point, awesome, now... mbs. (jk, I like mbs =])
Yeah, Overlords dropping Infested Terrans made no sense at all. I guess if they really want to keep it in the game, they just give it to the Infestor :T
On July 08 2010 08:17 chirievalord wrote: Inmune to Stun FTW! Finally massive Thors vs Ultra battles will be epic! :D
They were already epic! If you Frenzy the Ultra, it beats the 250mm cannon 1-on-1 vs the Thor, because the stun part doesn't work on frenzied units.
This was also cool to watch - eg: the ultra stops, frozen by the stun, then a frenzy hits it, and it immediately comes back alive. Just because people didn't try to learn how to use frenzy doesn't make it useless, it had so many applications, that the game kinda feels incomplete without it..
I like the ultralisk change... While I suppose it's technically a nerf to the ultralisk to remove frenzy, I never actually saw anyone use it anyway. And this makes ultras a lot more useful late-game against terran
I'm glad they're not afraid to just scrap a latest change. Ridiculously happy about that actually =) Although adding infested terran back to the infestor with alternatives being plagu and mind control is kinda silly.
Oh, ofc the move rally point, awesome, now... mbs. (jk, I like mbs =])
Yeah, Overlords dropping Infested Terrans made no sense at all. I guess if they really want to keep it in the game, they just give it to the Infestor :T
lore wise it makes no sense but gameplay-wise it was a much better fit IMO. sorta like how hallucination is really good on the sentry but always sucked on the high templar. it's all about what spells the caster has to pick from. they should of just changed the model of the infested terran and called it something else and kept it on the overseer.
On July 08 2010 05:39 PrinceXizor wrote: Something else which is VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT you now need to log in to Battle.net in order to use the offline Starcraft 2 editor. Meaning blizzard now has a way to mandate validation for offline services. which is one HUGE step towards LAN capabilities, and it also removes their only real excuse for not having LAN.
Hm, that's an interesting way to look at it - I initially assumed it was because they considered the map editor less important so it didn't matter as much if the auth for that was cracked.
woot
On July 08 2010 07:13 hacpee wrote: A huge nerf. Before, you could have unlimited combat units with infested terran and overseers. Now you can't.
In theory yes but an overseer morph did cost 100 gas you spawn 200 overseers and pop out infested terrans (which have a timed lifespan) and see what units other than zerglings you have. As 2000 gas is a bigg deal.
On July 08 2010 07:57 Antiochus wrote: This is the worst patch ever no more mass overseer into mass infested terran drop in ffa.
Well it was fun while it lasted.
The infested terran ability was nerfed quite a bit imo when it moved to the overseer simply because you could produce them for no supply
On July 08 2010 08:23 Zeno wrote: Am I the only one who is concerned that there is a giant cow-marine in this!?
On July 08 2010 08:17 chirievalord wrote: Inmune to Stun FTW! Finally massive Thors vs Ultra battles will be epic! :D
They were already epic! If you Frenzy the Ultra, it beats the 250mm cannon 1-on-1 vs the Thor, because the stun part doesn't work on frenzied units.
This was also cool to watch - eg: the ultra stops, frozen by the stun, then a frenzy hits it, and it immediately comes back alive. Just because people didn't try to learn how to use frenzy doesn't make it useless, it had so many applications, that the game kinda feels incomplete without it..
I loled, se with frenzy ultralisk a melee unit can finally kill an anti-air unit with an insane range attack ? So usefull...
"The patch "enUS\Mods\Core.SC2Mod\enUS.SC2Data\LocalizedData\GameHotkeys.txt" could not be applied. (CRC mismatch: expected 0x37eccaa7, actual 0xbed71dea.)(PTCApply_BSDiff failed.) If this problem persists, you may be able to solve it by uninstalling and then reinstalling the game. If you are unable to correct this problem, please contact Blizzard Technical Support. (BNUpdate:TCApply)"
On July 08 2010 08:34 dthree wrote: If you have used custom hotkeys you get
"The patch "enUS\Mods\Core.SC2Mod\enUS.SC2Data\LocalizedData\GameHotkeys.txt" could not be applied. (CRC mismatch: expected 0x37eccaa7, actual 0xbed71dea.)(PTCApply_BSDiff failed.) If this problem persists, you may be able to solve it by uninstalling and then reinstalling the game. If you are unable to correct this problem, please contact Blizzard Technical Support. (BNUpdate:TCApply)"
Anyone know how to fix?
My guess is uninstall and then reinstalling the game.
On July 08 2010 08:39 blagoonga123 wrote: i don't get why people care about the whole thing with rally point.
someone care to explain?
when they proxy like the cheesy people they are thier units get distracted and chase scout workers instead of going to rally point. Personally I like attack rally more but its not a huge deal either way to me
Can't wait to see how good the hardest AI is. And I reeaally want to try out those new maps. Cooperative matchmaking vs AI is kind of interesting. I hope that means that the AI is actually pretty intelligent.
Well it seems they read the interview where Idra mentions that on the Infestor, Fungal + Infested Terran can serve as drop defense, and how on the Overseer it's just pointless.
On July 08 2010 08:17 chirievalord wrote: Inmune to Stun FTW! Finally massive Thors vs Ultra battles will be epic! :D
They were already epic! If you Frenzy the Ultra, it beats the 250mm cannon 1-on-1 vs the Thor, because the stun part doesn't work on frenzied units.
This was also cool to watch - eg: the ultra stops, frozen by the stun, then a frenzy hits it, and it immediately comes back alive. Just because people didn't try to learn how to use frenzy doesn't make it useless, it had so many applications, that the game kinda feels incomplete without it..
I loled, se with frenzy ultralisk a melee unit can finally kill an anti-air unit with an insane range attack ? So usefull...
Thor is anti-air unit? Have you tried it to see how this 1-on-1 match-up works with and without those spells.
If you want reference, just look at last Day9 show, Lalush vs Jinro, and see Ultras vs mech, in which case Terran mass produces Thors and counters the ultra superbly (with 250mm cannons), because no frenzy was used. But IF frenzy is used, in pure 1-on-1 the ultras win vs the 250mm - test it with the latest phase 1 patch, if you don't believe.
The infested terran in awesome. Don't take my word for it, play around with infesters in the unit tester. Holding shift, spawn the infested terrans in the center of the opponents army, and they form a semi circle around the army. It's an instant flank. Try it before flaming k thanks.
Rally Point change the best change in a while!! So glad blizz finally patched it.
edit: what do you guys think about giving infesting command center to the queen again and letting it infest cc's to produce the bw infested terrans lol
On July 08 2010 08:17 chirievalord wrote: Inmune to Stun FTW! Finally massive Thors vs Ultra battles will be epic! :D
They were already epic! If you Frenzy the Ultra, it beats the 250mm cannon 1-on-1 vs the Thor, because the stun part doesn't work on frenzied units.
This was also cool to watch - eg: the ultra stops, frozen by the stun, then a frenzy hits it, and it immediately comes back alive. Just because people didn't try to learn how to use frenzy doesn't make it useless, it had so many applications, that the game kinda feels incomplete without it..
It still took the full 500 dmg and would die very quickly, and if you have any unit in between the Thor and Ultra the Thor easily wins, which will most likely be the case.
On July 08 2010 09:17 RMmanlots wrote: Dear TL community,
The infested terran in awesome. Don't take my word for it, play around with infesters in the unit tester. Holding shift, spawn the infested terrans in the center of the opponents army, and they form a semi circle around the army. It's an instant flank. Try it before flaming k thanks.
Agreed, as long as they reset the 25 cost that is (which they should have).
Then again, if immobilizing the enemy is the point, fungal growth does it too. The main use of infested terrans I see are:
1) Harassing a worker line, drop 2-3 infestors with 100-125 energy, drop a few infested terrans and fungal the mineral line. The ITs can do that extra 4 damage to kill all the workers.
2) Blocking/taking hits. Whether to form a front line for hydras/broodlords (remember the eggs block nicely and then spawn, I believe the IT spawns full life regardless) or to block an enemy/cut his forces (a few eggs on a ramp can stop reinforcements for just long enough or stp the enemy retreating. Also if you spawn them behind a marine/marauder ball while you attack the front they will not only block (which fungal growth can do anyways) but more importantly they get attacked saving your other units from a lot of hits, 50 HP can soak up 4-6 marauder shots which is almost a full roach. Note as well that the ITs do not have the light or armored type, making them much less vulnerable to things like hellions, marauders and immortals than the standard roach/hydra.
On July 08 2010 08:39 blagoonga123 wrote: i don't get why people care about the whole thing with rally point.
someone care to explain?
Example of attack rally being bad (gave an example so people wont just say its cheesers that wanted this change)
It depends in some instances move is better sometimes attack is better if I have a some mutas (7-8 ) attacking in the middle of my base. And have my only two factories with tech labs already building thors. One factory has a thor almost done the other one is only at 10%. The mutas attacking will easily be able to kill the first thor that pops out easy without his buddy to back him up. With attack move rally point even if you tell the thor to rally away from the mutas the first thor upon completion will see the mutas on the way to the rally point and attack them. The mutas will retaliate and kill the thor before his buddy finishes with move rally point you will have the option of engaging with both thors.
Example of move rally point being bad
If you have move rally point set whether units are camping your production facility or not the unit will spawn and move to the rally point. Of course getting attacked along the way until the player itself tells the unit to attack back (fyi move rally point was used in BW).
Way to remedy move rally point. If you want units to attack the moment they spawn if the facility is being camped.... cancel the rally point by setting the rally point to the production facility this means there rally point is wherever they spawn meaning they will arrive there instantly to start attacking.
Both of these have advantages and both have disadvantages but I believe move rally is the best out of the 2 for more situations.
Edit: Ideally having both would be the best but of course move is better.
On July 08 2010 08:17 chirievalord wrote: Inmune to Stun FTW! Finally massive Thors vs Ultra battles will be epic! :D
They were already epic! If you Frenzy the Ultra, it beats the 250mm cannon 1-on-1 vs the Thor, because the stun part doesn't work on frenzied units.
This was also cool to watch - eg: the ultra stops, frozen by the stun, then a frenzy hits it, and it immediately comes back alive. Just because people didn't try to learn how to use frenzy doesn't make it useless, it had so many applications, that the game kinda feels incomplete without it..
It still took the full 500 dmg and would die very quickly, and if you have any unit in between the Thor and Ultra the Thor easily wins, which will most likely be the case.
I agree with what you say, however the guy I quoted said that he NOW expects epic ultra-thor battles. I don't see how they are gonna be epic now with fewer choices (frenzy and 250mm are choices), and without the option for ultra to get additional frenzy dmg. With frenzy at least it was very close, and with theoretical chance for an ultra to win vs a thor.
It's a nerf, not a buff. And a nerf for the weaker unit in this matchup.
On July 08 2010 08:17 chirievalord wrote: Inmune to Stun FTW! Finally massive Thors vs Ultra battles will be epic! :D
They were already epic! If you Frenzy the Ultra, it beats the 250mm cannon 1-on-1 vs the Thor, because the stun part doesn't work on frenzied units.
This was also cool to watch - eg: the ultra stops, frozen by the stun, then a frenzy hits it, and it immediately comes back alive. Just because people didn't try to learn how to use frenzy doesn't make it useless, it had so many applications, that the game kinda feels incomplete without it..
It still took the full 500 dmg and would die very quickly, and if you have any unit in between the Thor and Ultra the Thor easily wins, which will most likely be the case.
I agree with what you say, however the guy I quoted said that he NOW expects epic ultra-thor battles. I don't see how they are gonna be epic now with fewer choices (frenzy and 250mm are choices), and without the option for ultra to get additional frenzy dmg. With frenzy at least it was very close, and with theoretical chance for an ultra to win vs a thor.
It's a nerf, not a buff. And a nerf for the weaker unit in this matchup.
Well also recall it's energy an infestor HAD to use. Now ultras are perma immune, so other abilities like Fungal Growth can be utilized, etc.
Actually Ultralisks have a pretty reasonable chance to win vs an equal number of Thors depending on how much the Thors are bunched up, now that 250 mm doesn't stun. I'm not sure why you'd even use it now. The DPS isn't that much higher, and the Ultra is likely to die from the damage of the other Thors before the spell finishes anyways.
On July 08 2010 11:45 Scientia wrote: Actually Ultralisks have a pretty reasonable chance to win vs an equal number of Thors depending on how much the Thors are bunched up, now that 250 mm doesn't stun. I'm not sure why you'd even use it now, the DPS isn't that much higher, and the Ultra is likely to die from the damage of the other Thors before the spell finishes anyways.
Uh... the more Thors there are the worse ultras would do so I doubt that. Thors are ranged, and ultras are insanelly bulky, doesn't matter how bunched up the Thors are really, especially since almost all maps are insanely choke-filled you'll rarely find a way all the Ultras could be attacking at once.
I'm fine with easter eggs. They're funny and entertaining. Everything doesn't have to be serious business. For gosh sake, it's a game afterall, it's meant to have fun, also for the developers.
And no, this is not a launching point for you to say "WELL MAYBE THEY SHOULD TAKE DEVELOPING XYZ FEATURES MORE SERIOUSLY!" This is just something fun and easy they like to implement for lols.
Do you also hate all the easter eggs in the achievement names? GET YOUR BIOSHOCK OUT OF MY SC2!
Ridiculous post and a terrible analogy. I'm also concerned about Warcraft characters popping up in the avatars and we've already seen tendencies towards a more warcraftish type of a game than a successor to Brood War though I do think it sort of halted through the pre-beta development and is not that bad after all.
Starcraft isnt any mario bros kind of game where random colored mushrooms popping up here and there and make it a FUN play for you. Starcraft has a solid foundation of which it relies on in both gameplay and story and that is pretty much connected to the experience of a large majority of Starcraft players.
So, changes and new ideas are okey as long as they are somehow connected to the realm of Starcraft. That is at least my opinion...
I can no longer TAB through buildings on the same control group. For example if I group a factory with reactor to one with a tech lab, I can't cycle between them using TAB anymore.
Why do they refuse to understand that we don't want frenzy or infested terran and that a new spell is needed?
Probably because they think it fits in the game, a neat feature that was also (at least similar) BW had, and it kind of fits the Infestor, imo.
Not everything can or will be implemented with the pure intent of making it an awesome e-sport. The game should still be cool and the infested terran is just that.
But, I do agree that a new spell would also be needed in addition to this one.
On July 08 2010 08:39 blagoonga123 wrote: i don't get why people care about the whole thing with rally point.
someone care to explain?
Example of attack rally being bad (gave an example so people wont just say its cheesers that wanted this change)
It depends in some instances move is better sometimes attack is better if I have a some mutas (7-8 ) attacking in the middle of my base. And have my only two factories with tech labs already building thors. One factory has a thor almost done the other one is only at 10%. The mutas attacking will easily be able to kill the first thor that pops out easy without his buddy to back him up. With attack move rally point even if you tell the thor to rally away from the mutas the first thor upon completion will see the mutas on the way to the rally point and attack them. The mutas will retaliate and kill the thor before his buddy finishes with move rally point you will have the option of engaging with both thors.
Example of move rally point being bad
If you have move rally point set whether units are camping your production facility or not the unit will spawn and move to the rally point. Of course getting attacked along the way until the player itself tells the unit to attack back (fyi move rally point was used in BW).
Way to remedy move rally point. If you want units to attack the moment they spawn if the facility is being camped.... cancel the rally point by setting the rally point to the production facility this means there rally point is wherever they spawn meaning they will arrive there instantly to start attacking.
Both of these have advantages and both have disadvantages but I believe move rally is the best out of the 2 for more situations.
Edit: Ideally having both would be the best but of course move is better.
You can shift queue rally points. I wouldn't be surprised if you can shift queue an attack command into that.
My computer freezes right when I'm about to load into a match, I can't alt+tab or alt+cntrl+del out of it I have to hard reset. Is this happening to anyone else? Any help?
Can somebody tell me what's so great about the rally-move change? It sucks bad that when in a bind, you units will come out and I have to direct them to attack. Or worse, forget to "unrallypoint" all buildings and my guys in the back come out and walk into the battlefield, doing nothing.
They really need a toggle for attack rally. Or change it so nydus worms have attack rally at least, If I have 100 lings I now have to hover over the worm and ctrl click + a-move or drag select a-move 30 odd times in order to get the same effect as before. I didn't like the idea of attack rally until I first realised nydus worms could be rallied.
On July 09 2010 22:23 MarioMD wrote: I wish ultralisks weren't immune to mind control. I'm sure it's helpful, I just don't think it makes sense.
What would make more sense, would be if in ZvZ you mind control overlords and then you control whatever enemy units they can see, unless theres another overlord nearby, then the units aren't controlled by anyone, and they go berserk and attack the nearest unit to them, unless you only control one of their overlords and they control 2 in the area.
On July 08 2010 08:58 Prophecy3 wrote: Whatever reasoning they had for putting the Infested Terran back in, is flawed, it's totally useless.
On July 08 2010 09:03 Subversion wrote: infested terran isn't necessarily a terrible spell in itself, it just needs to be changed/buffed/cost reduced so it doesn't suck so much
Didn't they already do that? Like, they changed duration from 20 to 30 seconds and made it castable while burrowed. That ought to make them 100 times more usable than before.
This way you can for example easily counter terran tanks by just spamming infested terrans on them while you are still burrowed, and when the tanks are busy shooting at each other due to the infested terarns you can charge in with your main army.
Or when you harass it is better to cast 1 fungal and 3 infested on the workers than casting 2 fungals. 30 seconds instead of 20 is a really big deal.
I didn't want to start a new thread to ask a question.
Since neural parasite now only lasts 12 seconds would it be too imbalanced to change how it works to be as it was in Broodwar? That is, the Infestor would no longer have to channel the spell? The removal of the tentacle animation would of course go along with this.
I really don't like the new move-rally. For lower skilled players, move-rally leads to a lot of units dying without ever attacking. I think attackmove-rally was more useful, since it's good for reinforcing a battle, while the move-rally is only useful to run units away when your production facilities are under attack.
EPT
(not only because it was this way in BW)
![[image loading]](http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2655/dustinbr.png)
![[image loading]](http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1111/screenshot2010070800143.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/388/hydramarine.png)
![[image loading]](http://i29.tinypic.com/1180n4z.jpg)
