EPTAutomated Tournaments and the Monetization of Bnet - Page 6
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nEAnS
Canada161 Posts
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chuninexam
Canada56 Posts
On June 18 2010 10:35 FrozenArbiter wrote: Read up on the AbsolutePoker super user scandal.out and use them against you. I don't think I need to explain to you how powerful of a tool a map hack is. As of now, since were in beta, these map hacks havent been too much of a problem I've only run into a few cases I knew for sure someone was using them a Yes, there'll always be hacks - I don't care, there'll always be people using steroids in sports. Should we stop all sports? That's a little different. The Absolute Poker scandal was a case where high level administrators were using super privledged accounts to cheat. This is not something that any averege person can acheive. You, me, or nearly everyone on the planet except for those who work at the highest levels of these respective poker sites can cheat in this way. The difference is in SC2 anyone and their grandmother can take a few minutes to download a map hack and whatever other hacks will come out in the future and use them against you. Since it's beta I haven't had much of a problem with map hackers yet, I've only encountered a few cases where I knew for sure they were map hacking against me. Also cause there is nothing on the line people don't care as much to abuse this. But as soon as you put money on the line and implement this system basically everyone will get map hacks and you will be at a critical disadvantage without them. The entire "sit and go sc2 ladder" or whatever you wanna call it will be littered with map hackers to the degree that non map hackers won't even be able to compete. Just as in poker, in sc2 people will be looking for every edge they can get. There is not enough honor and morality in this world, and people will be abusing hacks to the degree that I just described. It's silly to ignore this distinction between the 2 completely different levels of cheating that occur in online poker and sc2. | ||
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Kexx
Germany240 Posts
This way newer players wouldn't mind experimenting with those tournaments but it stills gives an accomplishment if you win one. It would drive you to get better and advance in a higher league to compete with more money, instead of trying to stay in a lower league just to get easy wins. overall I like it. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
It's silly to ignore this distinction between the 2 completely different levels of cheating that occur in online poker and sc2. You are of course right. I'm not sure what can be done about it tho, having not seen whatever Blizzard's final solution for anti-hack will be. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of surrendering a competitive idea just because a good % of human beings are scum tho  However, with the 1 account/1 cd key policy, it will at least be more costly whenever you are caught. | ||
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Kaal
Djibouti2570 Posts
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Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
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Kexx
Germany240 Posts
MTG:O sells tournament tickets, they cost 1$ each and a tournament usually costs one tournament ticket. When you win a tournament you don't win any money, just booster packs,cards or more tournament tickets, so it can't be considered gambling. But the tournament tickets are the commong currency in MTG:O you buy and sell cards for tournament tickets so it's as much worth as money in MTG:O. But this system only makes sense in a game like MTG:O where you can buy stuff with the fake currency you win, SC2 doesn't have anything like that. | ||
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DGMavn
United States48 Posts
On June 18 2010 11:12 chuninexam wrote: That's a little different. The Absolute Poker scandal was a case where high level administrators were using super privledged accounts to cheat. This is not something that any averege person can acheive. You, me, or nearly everyone on the planet except for those who work at the highest levels of these respective poker sites can cheat in this way. The difference is in SC2 anyone and their grandmother can take a few minutes to download a map hack and whatever other hacks will come out in the future and use them against you. Since it's beta I haven't had much of a problem with map hackers yet, I've only encountered a few cases where I knew for sure they were map hacking against me. Also cause there is nothing on the line people don't care as much to abuse this. But as soon as you put money on the line and implement this system basically everyone will get map hacks and you will be at a critical disadvantage without them. The entire "sit and go sc2 ladder" or whatever you wanna call it will be littered with map hackers to the degree that non map hackers won't even be able to compete. Just as in poker, in sc2 people will be looking for every edge they can get. There is not enough honor and morality in this world, and people will be abusing hacks to the degree that I just described. It's silly to ignore this distinction between the 2 completely different levels of cheating that occur in online poker and sc2. SC hacks are easy to get because there's no money involved for your grandma. As soon as you introduce any significant cash flow into automated SC2 tournament play, these hacks are worth money (and hence become more scarce). Also super-users aren't the only people who have successfully 'hacked' online gambling. There was at least one site whose random number generator was predictable and some guy wrote a program that could tell you what cards everyone was getting after observing your hole cards and community cards over several hands. | ||
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Solomoth
United States55 Posts
Many of you are saying, "Well the buy ins for diamond tourneys will be higher than the buy ins for Gold, so a high level diamond player would not want to play such a low stakes tourney." I don't think this rationality works because unlike high level poker players, high level SC players might not necessarily have a big bank account and just because you are #1 in your diamond league doesn't mean you would want to risk $100 to play in a tourney. The same can be said about the lower divisions. You could be in Silver and be making 6 figures at your day job and a $0.05 tourney would be meaningless. I also think with money on the line players would be more inclined to use hacks. I think having pay to play SNG like tourneys is a bad idea, maybe with exception to the invite only Pro League if Blizzard actually creates one. | ||
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vesicular
United States1310 Posts
On June 18 2010 08:48 FrozenArbiter wrote: With all the - generally negative - talk about micro transactions that exists today, I was once again reminded of how the Poker industry manages to essentially charge you for every tournament you play, every hand you win, and yet nobody minds. Well, to be fair, poker is gambling. The entire game revolves around it. Constantly putting in money is built into the game from the start. That's not exactly the same with a video game. That said, it's an interesting idea. | ||
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Poyo
Canada790 Posts
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Saturnize
United States2473 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 18 2010 11:26 Kexx wrote: Oh by the way, you asked you MGT:O does it. MTG:O sells tournament tickets, they cost 1$ each and a tournament usually costs one tournament ticket. When you win a tournament you don't win any money, just booster packs,cards or more tournament tickets, so it can't be considered gambling. But the tournament tickets are the commong currency in MTG:O you buy and sell cards for tournament tickets so it's as much worth as money in MTG:O. But this system only makes sense in a game like MTG:O where you can buy stuff with the fake currency you win, SC2 doesn't have anything like that. Hm, what if you won things like Blizzard store credits, and said credits could be exchanged for cash ;p? Oh well that's probably too obvious. Meh, I can see it's going to be problematic legally - too bad. On June 18 2010 11:27 DGMavn wrote: SC hacks are easy to get because there's no money involved for your grandma. As soon as you introduce any significant cash flow into automated SC2 tournament play, these hacks are worth money (and hence become more scarce). Also super-users aren't the only people who have successfully 'hacked' online gambling. There was at least one site whose random number generator was predictable and some guy wrote a program that could tell you what cards everyone was getting after observing your hole cards and community cards over several hands. Mm, you're going to have to come up with a source for that second one... The only two big cheating scandals I'm aware of were on AbsolutePoker and Ultimatebet. | ||
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MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
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jamesr12
United States1549 Posts
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chuninexam
Canada56 Posts
On June 18 2010 11:27 DGMavn wrote: SC hacks are easy to get because there's no money involved for your grandma. As soon as you introduce any significant cash flow into automated SC2 tournament play, these hacks are worth money (and hence become more scarce). Also super-users aren't the only people who have successfully 'hacked' online gambling. There was at least one site whose random number generator was predictable and some guy wrote a program that could tell you what cards everyone was getting after observing your hole cards and community cards over several hands. 1.SC hacks are very easy to create. Even if there is money involved and some people might start charging for their hacks. There is a large enough hack/mod community that people will create hacks, simply as projects, out of hobby alone and provide them for free. No doubt about it. In addition - nothing can stop anyone from simply pirating these hacks. 2. If that's even true - that's just another special circumstance and an isolated case that isn't comparable to the widespread, easy to use hacks of SC. Please don't ignore the clear distinctions in the levels of cheating between the 2 games when making arguments... | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 18 2010 11:48 jamesr12 wrote: I think hes talking about poker stars, a few people claimed they have broken the random number generator for that site, but there has never been any proof I'm reasonably confident that anyone claiming that is wrong  Why you'd let anyone know about it instead of winning all the monies is something we don't even need to go into =pThere are A LOT of delusional people in the poker community, lots of good people but a lot of crackpots as well. | ||
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Patches
United States43 Posts
If this could be done in such a way that players entering the tournament felt they had a real fighters chance of finding some success it would turn out to be a hell of a lot of fun. Of course Blizzard would have to invest a lot more man hours on catching and preventing abuse but that's where the rake would come in I reckon. Figuring out how to make it work amidst its obstacles in terms of functionality and implementation would if nothing else make for a really good brain storming session. Underground Blizz team please post notes..."The people must know!" (: | ||
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Soap
Brazil1546 Posts
Nothing can be easier than to seat at a poker sit-and-go with a friend and share the profits. It doesnt ruin the game because you wont be able to cashout any meaningful amount without having your account checked, your funds confiscated and such clever enterprise becoming a waste of time plus the money deposited to start playing. Can't see how it can't work the same way with SC2. And ffs, gambling = playing a game of chance for money. If it was just "playing for money" any sports professional would be a gambler. | ||
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MenacingVitamin
United States50 Posts
On June 18 2010 09:09 FrozenArbiter wrote: Then you win one tournament and get moved up immediately. + You have to buy a new account, or were you planning on somehow being progamer level the first time you play the game  ?Just a thought I had when I read this... What if the take from tournaments far exceeded the cost of a new account? With a high success rate and low overall overhead, this could still be easy to abuse...? | ||
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