EPTAutomated Tournaments and the Monetization of Bnet - Page 8
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
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Hasudk
Denmark78 Posts
Also this would be banned in SO many countries, Im not sure blizzard really wants to start that fight. [EDIT] OK so it has been discussed. Just delete this post or what ever. I fail. | ||
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nyshak
Germany132 Posts
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OminouS
Sweden1343 Posts
I guess the idea is fine, it wont hurt the casual gamers cuz they can just choose not to enter. I would personally not enter such a tournament. | ||
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okrane
France265 Posts
I understand tournaments are made to gain cash. Also I understand the idea of someone wanting to become a "pro" gamer (i.e. earn his living from gaming), but the funding of pro gamers like any other sports should come mainly from sponsors and people interested in watching such an event. I understand that gamers would like to have a way to gain money with what they like to do. But opening opportunities for blizzard to start sqeezing even more cash out of the game is a slippery slope which I fear we will all regret in a few years. | ||
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Immersion_
United Kingdom794 Posts
 .Edit: SPAG! | ||
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[SD]Hi_MaN
Poland54 Posts
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angiepolska
Belgium13 Posts
This should be implemented in so many more games, if you don't want to play for money, then don't it doesn't make the gaming experience any worse. Just like in poker, you can play the free money tables or the real money tables. And if you go broke, you still can keep on playing the free money tables. My only concern is that not enough people would play it, as a huge part of SC2'ers are -18 & -21. And the adults that do play SC2 would probably rather play poker than SC2. But I really love the idea, and I would definitely use that system if it were there. Does this promote gambling? Anyone that has read 10minutes about poker strategy knows that poker has nothing to do with gambling nor luck. Poker is a skill game just like starcraft 2, just capitalizing more on other skills and having a bigger 'random' factor thus more deviation. FrozenArbiter, really big up for this post. I hope blizzard will look into it. | ||
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TieN.nS)
United States2131 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
Like someone said winning a tournament moves you up a league instantly, but a 2nd or 3rd place gives you a lot of promotion points so lets says 2 second places will also promote you. Then lets say in a 32 player tournament 1st 10 places could give you some of these promotion points. Also for free tournaments you would get half the promotion points you would get for pay to play ones to account for probably weaker opponents. And maybe for each stronger leagues you need more promotion points, like to move from platinum to diamond you need 2 wins in a tournament or 4 2nd places. And for pro league some other system should be used or maybe only counting wins in pay to play tournaments What do you think? | ||
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Waltchelg
United States66 Posts
On June 18 2010 17:46 okrane wrote: What is the point of all this? Are all games going to be transformed into some kind of "insert coin to play" type of thing? Why does money have to be the main incentive of it all? Personally it seems like a really bad direction to take because with constant motivations to put a price tag on every little service a game company offers to their clients we will escalate into the typical extortion based business models from the entertainment field we see everywhere from gambling to night clubs charging freaking 10 euros for a can of coke. This has probably been said in the thread, but I'm not reading 8 pages of shit. Have any of you ever been to a LAN? Almost every single community LAN event has a buyin... nobody has ever bitched about paying a $50 entry to get yourself into one of those tournaments. SURE, circumstances are slightly different seeing as how theres no building/electric/whatever fees going into the tournament provider, but the idea is the same. People pay money to get a chance at winning money. EDIT: fuck, even MLG charges its Halo teams to compete and they've got sponsors out the whazoo. It's something around $250/team to enter. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
Secondly I think having MORE tournaments is bad, because it will lower the general quality of it all as an e-Sport which you could watch on TV. Poker is generally pretty boring to watch, so it works for them, but if the good players can make more money themselves from prizes in pay-to-play tournaments (which probably have bigger prizes that way), why should they go to free tournaments where they only receive 100$, but which are covered on internet-TV? | ||
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RogerChillingworth
2842 Posts
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Uriel_SVK
Slovakia427 Posts
There will be some b.net currency that you can buy with real money (For example 10$ = 1000b.net $), which could be used for tournaments. For this b.net$ you could buy stuff - portrait/decals, custom maps, other downloadable content, stuff from blizzard store ... Some b.net$ could be also awarded for finishing single player/getting in better league/getting some special achievement - so some more people could try out tournaments which could lure them to spend their money on buying more b.net$ I bet that guys from activision/blizzard are already have ideas like this in their little greedy heads. | ||
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arnold(soTa)
Sweden352 Posts
The comparison with magic the gathering was nice, although I hope blizzard wouldnt take as big of a cut/rake as MTG do...because its practically impossible/hard for anyone but MTG to make a profit out of it. | ||
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Puosu
6985 Posts
I'd rather see SC go towards what standard spectator sports are and not just reading graphs on the internet how someone made a cool million dollars grinding 24 | ||
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arnold(soTa)
Sweden352 Posts
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turnip
United States193 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 18 2010 19:57 Rabiator wrote: If you add "pay to play" things into the fundamentals of Battlenet 2.0 you have to give Starcraft 2 an 18+ rating. Its the same for Poker, which isnt legal for minors either ... well usually (lots of different countries and laws around the globe). This is totally against the main group of customers and we should not make an exception just because it is Starcraft and allow teenagers participate in such tournaments. WoW is pay to play, and I don't think it's 18+ so I don't get why this would be? Secondly I think having MORE tournaments is bad, because it will lower the general quality of it all as an e-Sport which you could watch on TV. Poker is generally pretty boring to watch, so it works for them, but if the good players can make more money themselves from prizes in pay-to-play tournaments (which probably have bigger prizes that way), why should they go to free tournaments where they only receive 100$, but which are covered on internet-TV? I don't agree - it seems really unrealistic for these types of tournaments to actually become big enough to usurp the more traditional ones. In poker you have a completely different demographic (less broke college kids, more well-to-do middle-aged adults), and there's a lot more incentive for a wider group of people to play. In addition, in poker you can play dozens of tables at once - not something you'd be able to do in SC2 even if the traffic allowed it. On June 18 2010 16:02 Bio-Leera wrote: I don't post often but I played warcraft 3 a lot before starcraft 2. In Warcraft 3 on the battle.net servers they held automated tournaments 3 times weekly at least. They were sometimes sponsored by a random company, like AT&T or just sponsored by blizzard themselves. There was a qualifying time maybe like 2 hours of playing against tourney entries and then whoever has the best record gets dropped into a 16 bracket. Now I know this isn't like the instantaneous tournaments that you were talking about While endless amounts of tournaments sounds nice, I could see myself getting carried away with it and burning a hole in my pocket. My main point and i read through the entire thread and still didn't see anyone bring it up, I guess 'cause not many people played wc3 here, but blizzard did automated tournements before for free. Like you said I don't mind paying but I don't want to pay for something that was offered for free before. In my head it works like this... the top 3, or whatever number, ranked players from each division get dropped in a huge bracket for the entire league. This will cover that problem poeple had of being in divisions but not knowing who was truly the best. if there was league wide tourneys, which I assume there will be, you would really know who was the best. Hell I might even watch for the results from those tourneys. I'm sure your idea sounded awesome coming from like sc1, but to me it sounded like what they've been doing in wc3 for years now (3 years at the least) and then putting a price tag on it. If there are any chances of extra money costs, it would be like what they did in WoW. There would be a separate server that you paid 10 more a month to play on. On that server you play against the best of the best in arena, and could also have any item you wanted. Top teams would then get to go the official blizzard tournament. So in sc2 there would be like the "Pro ID" that you pay monthly for that lets you on to a global server or something, and access to all those lan latency tourneys which i think are going to be more common than people think. alright I'm done rambling, just thought I bring up this point. I've played those WC3 touranments you speak of, but as far as I know they didn't have any prizes? My suggestion is to have both automated tournaments with $ buyins (and $ prizes), as well as free tournaments (both with and without prizes - prizes can be either $, or tickets to $buyin tournaments). | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On June 18 2010 15:26 rK wrote: The gambling laws in the US generate $80-100 billion a year for the government (this doesn't count online gambling). Do you really believe those laws are in place because of moral reasons?  Law frowned upon gambling before it made so much money by doing so. As far as I know, both the legislators and judges who are responsible for gambling laws have cited moral reasons, yes. ... I am wondering something about all the people who don't approve of this idea but don't suggest another system that would have good automated tournaments. Do you not value automated tournaments? If you do value them, then what is your alternative solution? If you don't have one, make your arguments balance against the fact that you are giving up extraordinarily awesome automated tournaments. I am hoping that many of you who give somewhat feeble reasons for not supporting this idea would actually support this idea when you see that the good outweighs the bad. Also, I see many people arguing why this would fail. People say that some players who would want to enter would be unable to. There would be many who would not want to enter. etc. This is a fruitless discussion. That's all you have to do as a fan is decide how you feel about having this service on bnet. It'd be Blizzard's job to decide whether it's worth it and their responsibility to make sure it succeeds if they decide to go through with it. If you are worried that Blizzard might fail at whatever they try to do, and that's your reason for opposing some things they could possibly do, then you're adding nothing to discussion. The bottom line is you don't think Blizzard can do things. Since it's an optional service, the only possible negatives I can imagine are these: --implementing this service gets prioritized over something you want more, so it takes you longer to see the bnet features you want the most --the existence of this feature negatively affects things that are not directly related to it. For example, this feature gives SC2 bad publicity as a game endorsing gambling (who knows what BS the media will say for ratings...) You might not be worried about either of those things at all and, even though you don't care for the service, you should be in support of it if it'll make some portion of your fellow players happy. | ||
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