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Automated Tournaments and the Monetization of Bnet - Page 13

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Pharow
Profile Joined May 2010
United States19 Posts
June 18 2010 18:40 GMT
#241
Incredible Idea. This one just blew me away. To be honest, this idea is too good, it's actually going to hurt me now, because I realize that a system like this is so unlikely to ever exist, despite the clear benefits for all involved.

Let me put it this way.... if the TL community raises concerns about the ramifications of this idea, you can be damned sure that Blizzard is going to be raining red flags when they consider it.
Renaissance
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada273 Posts
June 18 2010 18:44 GMT
#242
Why do I have a feeling that something like this is hard to code for Blizzard? They can't even create a reconnect feature on BNET, and many older games have that feature. But it's a great thing if they actually do try to create something like this.
Live forever or die trying.
Lysis
Profile Joined October 2009
United States147 Posts
June 18 2010 19:02 GMT
#243
On June 19 2010 03:44 Renaissance wrote:
Why do I have a feeling that something like this is hard to code for Blizzard? They can't even create a reconnect feature on BNET, and many older games have that feature. But it's a great thing if they actually do try to create something like this.


A re-connect feature would be practically useless in a RTS game. Once you disconnect, it's like leaving the game. I would understand something like that being in FPS, where you can easily resume what you were doing. It's a lot harder to get back on track with an RTS, and once you disconnect, the game ends, simple as that.
SC2: Tavyr#340 -- Razer Mamba user -- Don't trust anyone who says Terran is imba.
ashaman771
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada114 Posts
June 18 2010 19:06 GMT
#244
There might be legal issues with this, since it could be seen as gambling.
The Dead Room Podcast, check it out!
ChewbroCColi
Profile Joined July 2009
Denmark108 Posts
June 18 2010 19:13 GMT
#245
On June 19 2010 02:05 MorroW wrote:
i dont see how buying tournaments wouldnt work in theory, i think its an awesome idea but need age requirements to play


This.

Awesome Idea btw Jinro
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
June 18 2010 19:17 GMT
#246
On June 19 2010 04:02 Lysis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2010 03:44 Renaissance wrote:
Why do I have a feeling that something like this is hard to code for Blizzard? They can't even create a reconnect feature on BNET, and many older games have that feature. But it's a great thing if they actually do try to create something like this.


A re-connect feature would be practically useless in a RTS game. Once you disconnect, it's like leaving the game. I would understand something like that being in FPS, where you can easily resume what you were doing. It's a lot harder to get back on track with an RTS, and once you disconnect, the game ends, simple as that.


Both you and the person who you quoted are wrong.

It would be just as easy as facebook (paypal) integration.

And yes, the reconnect feature is extremely useful and not that hard to do, as HoN showed it.
Renaissance
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada273 Posts
June 18 2010 19:26 GMT
#247
Firstly, programming something like this with gaming is not just a simple PayPal integration. You have a lot of numbers to crunch, but that's not the point I was trying to get across. Battle.net is supposed to "revolutionize" online gaming and it still glitches up on simple features. From that I am making a statement that Blizzard will have a hard time designing this. If I recall correctly, one of the Blizzard representatives said that a reconnect feature is something that would be difficult.

Also, even Blizzard employees were looking at the StarCraft rankings site to see their own stats... that's when you know something is up.
Live forever or die trying.
Caspor
Profile Joined June 2010
Austria18 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-18 19:32:18
June 18 2010 19:31 GMT
#248
the idea itself is very appealing, but i have some serious concerns about some practical issues that will pretty sure come up with this.

first and foremost hackers/cheaters would be a huge problem. especially because theres real money in play, i guess there would be even legal issues because thats kind of fraud, hence antihack tools would be mandatory wich could lead to some false positives if someone has just a launcher or other 3rd party program installed without actually cheating.

just some random thoughts

sry for bad english
cloudJR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States266 Posts
June 18 2010 19:40 GMT
#249
It's a cool idea, but it would never happen. SC isn't known as a gambling franchise nor do I think that is an avenue they are looking into.
All I can hear are thousands of children screaming imbalance.......
palanq
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States761 Posts
June 18 2010 20:07 GMT
#250
You could have automated tournaments without a prize-pool, but instead for the "achievement points" that you get, those little shield things. Wouldn't be profitable or anything, but I can't really imagine my gold-league or below friends wanting to put down even a few dollars for a tournament. Besides that, it seems like a bad PR move to do anything with actual money....

Who knows, though. I would say do the tourneys with achievement points and see if having automated buy-in tournaments alongside it makes sense after that has been going for a while... or implement both at once.
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
Caspor
Profile Joined June 2010
Austria18 Posts
June 18 2010 20:24 GMT
#251
i am pretty sure blizzard had already discussed this with an army of their lawyers and business experts and came to the conclusion that it would not be doable or worth it at this time else they would have just done it already.

dont think they are not smart enough to at least have considered that idea by now.

there actually was a shooter with that kind of model but i forgot the name and i read it was pretty bad, never played it and forgot the name.

but i think its just a matter of time if they find a way to solve the major problems we may see this eventually.
Zapperkhan
Profile Joined October 2008
United States437 Posts
June 18 2010 20:44 GMT
#252
If they separate it to a new realm. Kinda like how they do the online Tournament Realm for World of Warcraft. I see it as feasible. But this is a big beast for Blizzard. It's something they'd delegate to another company to oversee, or create a new entity to handle.
yomi
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States773 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-18 20:54:13
June 18 2010 20:49 GMT
#253
It's a fantastic idea but will likely generate a large amount of negative press for the game. People think competing for money is gambling, regardless of how much skill is involved in the game, or how low the stakes are. Also there could be issues with the UIGEA.


We could set up a mini forum to organize cash tournaments within the TL community. Have trusted escrows and xfer the money via Pstars. It could be an issue to have tournaments that are profitable or breakeven for players that are not A class but in poker the different stakes seem to self regulate this. I doubt a really top player would invade a $1 tournament meant for gold level players.
aka_star
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United Kingdom1546 Posts
June 18 2010 20:57 GMT
#254
The risk of hackers is to much and game fixing, putting money into the scheme of things creates an incentive for someone to cheat. Some would argue that a drone scouting cross map on kulas and stealing the T's gas is a sign of hack when innocent, either way a complaint will take time to look over, eventually become too costly to police and so much data being client side its unlikely ever work as smoothly as intended.
FlashDave.999 aka Star
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
June 18 2010 21:15 GMT
#255
Map Hacks can be 100% eliminated by having the server host intermediate the games instead of having a direct p2p connection between the players. Instead of having the full map unit data on the client-side only obscured by the fog of war in memory. You could completely hide that information from the client, then only feed what the client needs to know from the server hosting the game.

So you could have a game that is mathematically uncheatable.

But I doubt Activision would ever make SC2 uncheatable, since they would need to invest a large amount of resource in preparing the game engine and the server hardware infra-structure to support this. And quoting the activision COO "We don't invest in areas the gamers don't see and don't care about.". And most players feel like this:
On June 18 2010 10:35 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Read up on the AbsolutePoker super user scandal.

Yes, there'll always be hacks - I don't care, there'll always be people using steroids in sports. Should we stop all sports?
Then they will still play even tho there are cheaters.

So my prediction is that they will eventually implement sit-n-go. About half of the players will cheat to make money. But people will still play, pay and make them a lot of money.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
June 18 2010 21:21 GMT
#256
I don't forsee any real legal problems.

Wizards of the Coast can host pay-to-enter MTG tournaments; how is that any different from hosting pay-to-enter SC2 tournaments?

I think this is a great idea, and personally I'm still astonished by the fact that starcraft tourneys don't generally have entry fees. Coming from a community where every pot ever except for a brief stint with MLG (Melee) was from player entry fees....
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
koppik
Profile Joined April 2010
United States676 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-18 21:56:29
June 18 2010 21:52 GMT
#257
It only sounds like gambling because the system is taken directly from online poker.

There are three elements to gambling: consideration, prize and chance. This system has consideration (the entrance fee) and prize, but it's hard to say there is a substantive enough element of chance in the games. At least, that's the US. Maybe some other countries have a looser definition of gambling, since what constitutes a "substantive element of chance" is so debatable.

Anyhow, I think this would do a lot to reward people playing starcraft competitively.

ImAbstracT
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
519 Posts
June 18 2010 21:53 GMT
#258
On June 18 2010 09:06 kineSiS- wrote:
This would be interesting... but this is also gambling.

Gambling is described as: Gambling is the of money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period.

Gambling is illegal in most states, so it is called gaming. Thats how it is in Louisiana, and we are known for our casinos. Then there is the whole game of chance vs the game of skill thing.
"I want you to take a moment, and reflect, on how much of a failure you are" - IdrA
DarKFoRcE
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1215 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-18 22:14:31
June 18 2010 22:14 GMT
#259
I like the idea, if it turns out to suck, noone is forced to use it, but i think it might actually be a quite nice feature.
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/PinDarKFoRcE
gerundium
Profile Joined June 2010
Netherlands786 Posts
June 18 2010 22:19 GMT
#260
UIGEA, and several other countries will probably use this kind of system to ban the game, costing them millions in revenue. They would not risk something like this, it can backfire very easily.
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