OSL prelims + Hwanni interview

On June 12 2010 12:58 Aldair wrote:
This is the next logical step really. SC 2 is supposed to be "the shit" and the mainstream crowd is always attentive to "the shit of the time" and not much else. If OSL and the other major companies don't switch their incomes won't grow and may even shrink as people become more focused on SC 2.

But only time will tell.... And Blizzard...... Fuck....

Edit: Roger.... don't speak that way. Just... don't....

On June 12 2010 12:56 Tempest[OEC] wrote:

Wrong sir. OSL never hosting BW again is definitely not awesome. :'(

On June 12 2010 12:59 KawaiiRice wrote:
Idra 4 bonjwa

On June 12 2010 12:52 p4NDemik wrote:
Oh man. I did not think the end of BW would come this soon.

On June 12 2010 12:57 RogerChillingworth wrote:
It's so much more difficult to control units in Brood War. In contrast to SC2, or rather going from SC2 to Brood War, it's a big pain in the ass. I endorse this switchover. RTS is evolving. Good-bye, former best RTS of all time.

On June 12 2010 13:02 Aldair wrote:


Idra.... I used to look up to that guy. His skill is high, but I don't respect him anymore as a player.

On June 12 2010 13:14 Alou wrote:
Change is scary, but good in the end.

On June 12 2010 13:11 Jayme wrote:


Why? Because he talks mad shit?

On June 12 2010 13:06 MamiyaOtaru wrote:

Yeah easier to control may make the game more fun to play (for you) but that's not the same thing as making it a better spectator sport. Harder to control meant higher skill ceiling (still not reached) which was a good thing for long term competitiveness. As fun as SC2 is I'm not sure it's ready to replace BW at the highest level. If this is accurate, I guess we'll see.

On June 12 2010 13:21 RogerChillingworth wrote:



We haven't seen the skill ceiling of SC2 yet. And we probably won't for another year or two. And it probably won't be predicated on the same things, seeing as the engine is better. It's more about that S in RTS, I feel. And I think that's what's going to hoist SC2 into the ESPORTS stratosphere (if anything does).

EDIT: Holy shit there's a lot of cynicism. Fucking lack of progressivism on this forum~~ (And yes, I know how hard it is to part from what is comfortable and what is known. It sucks. But open up. To quote Tyler Durden: "Let the chips fall where they may")

On June 12 2010 13:01 Skillz_Man wrote:
Jaedong for OSL and MSL this season wil secure him as the best player in history. And I would REALLY like to see some epic last SC tournament in the world with huge prize money etc. I do think for one that SC is feeling its age, and it does sadden me alot, but SC had a lifetime like no other.

Is the question going to be answered who the best player of all time is? (Or is it already? =o)

On June 12 2010 13:01 IntoTheWow wrote:
Nooooooooooooooooooo

On June 12 2010 13:15 CharlieMurphy wrote:

Not always. Imho, I think that these tournaments should run both games until there is just zero interest in them anymore. I mean BW is like the chess of e sports, rts, computer games. It is always good to watch, and 2 games are never exactly the same.

On June 12 2010 13:31 PanzerDragoon wrote:

Already answered:

It's Flash. 70% win rate, 80% in the last year. No one has ever had those numbers

On June 12 2010 13:42 robertdinh wrote:
I hope the pro BW scene shows some grit here and doesn't just follow the hype.

From a neutral standpoint BW takes way more skill than SC2.

On June 12 2010 13:40 andeh wrote:
cant wait to see how they play sc2 with the current lack of features with battlenet/sc2 in general

dont fck this up blizzard.

this is kind of crazy, considering no lan latency/less than ideal maps.

will blizzcon be before or after the next osl prelims? because blizzcon will (probably) have a sc2 tournament, and I CAN NOT WAIT to see how blizz runs the sc2 blizzcon tournament

On June 12 2010 13:39 oo_xerox wrote:
Do not worry, cuban HSL will continue despite this, cuba next korea bwaaahahahahha

bye osl, you are the best.

On June 12 2010 13:39 oo_xerox wrote:
Do not worry, cuban HSL will continue despite this, cuba next korea bwaaahahahahha

bye osl, you are the best.

On June 12 2010 12:52 Captain Peabody wrote:
I'm gonna go ahead and express the immediate reactions of most of the TL community (or at the very least me).

WHHHHHHHHHAAAAAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

On June 12 2010 13:26 Jayme wrote:


Heres the issue people have.

Bnet 2.0 sucks. Without Bnet 2.0 there is no SC2 tournament...period. So until that gets fixed and you don't have nice crashes in the middle of a bo5 final people are going to be cynical and they have EVERY RIGHT TO BE.

SC2 is nowhere near polished enough to be pushed into the huge scene in its current state...at least the multiplayer side isn't. Disappoint people enough and they aren't going to care that it's finally "fixed" a year later, you already lost the chance.

On June 12 2010 14:06 mangina wrote:
lol i was here yesterday at the e-sports stadium
i saw the board for the qualifiers
even got to take a pic with Nal_rA

kinda sad, they have games going on today, and i missed it, its already 1 hr past since they started
im waiting to go see the world cup match between korea and greece in 5 hrs

On June 12 2010 13:15 Excalibur_Z wrote:
So I don't know how many people actually watched the video, but he never actually committed to saying this would be the last BW OSL. In fact, he speculated that there would likely be at least one more season before OGN completely transitioned to SC2, and that's only if SC2 proves that it can completely eclipse its predecessor. That's a big "if" in my estimation and it wouldn't surprise me to see both games played side-by-side for quite a long time. I assume we're all used to a little bit of classic Artosis misdirection because it gets us to watch his videos, but the only thing I took away from the video besides the speculation surrounding the future of the OSL is the relative certainty that OGN will partner with GOM.

Thanks for the video Dan.

On June 12 2010 14:50 iamho wrote:
I watched the video and it seems Artosis is quoting only himself..

On June 12 2010 13:18 Subversion wrote:
Why is this a bad thing?

It's just an evolution. I'm excited to see SC2 grow as a game and where the Koreans can take this. You guys forget how much ass SC1 sucked when it first came out. SC2 is only in beta and we've already seen some really awesome stuff. Just imagine what the game can grow into with it being played at a professional level in Korea.

SC1 sucked for years, and way harder than SC2 (which is actually pretty damn good.) Don't be so afraid of change, give the game a chance to develop and grow.

On June 12 2010 14:50 iamho wrote:
I watched the video and it seems Artosis is quoting only himself..

On June 12 2010 12:57 flamewheel wrote:
...
Y'know, this news would be so much more epic if + Show Spoiler +
So the question is now: Flash for the golden mouse? Jaedong?

........ OSL, you will be missed.

:'(

On June 12 2010 15:03 nayumi wrote:

Jaedong already got a Golden Mouse :O

On June 12 2010 13:15 CharlieMurphy wrote:

Not always. Imho, I think that these tournaments should run both games until there is just zero interest in them anymore. I mean BW is like the chess of e sports, rts, computer games. It is always good to watch, and 2 games are never exactly the same.

On June 12 2010 15:44 instantcold wrote:
I know i am gonna sound like a noob, but what does osl stand for. just started to join the gaming community

On June 12 2010 15:47 zoLo wrote:
Interesting news, but I didn't think it would be this quick. Just give SC2 time since it took many years for SC1 to be where it's at. Almost every eSports game took X amount of years for it to be competitive (CS 1.6, WC3, etc).

On June 12 2010 13:16 Misrah wrote:
why? why does a shit game have to take the place of SCBW? LONG LIVE SCBW SCREW SC2 I WILL NOT WATCH A SINGLE MATCH- THIS GAME WILL BE DEAD IN 2 YEARS.



FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

User was warned for this post

On June 12 2010 15:31 leonardus wrote:
NO chance for SC2 to take over SC1 so soon. In the beginning will be some fun, but will this story will end soon like Warcraft 3. There are still to many fun of SC1 in korea for OSL to end now.

On June 12 2010 16:02 lolaloc wrote:
I think we should have some kind of password before making a post in threads like this. The password would be revealed after reading/watching the material.

So many people didn't watch the video.

On June 12 2010 15:58 Saracen wrote:
Terrible news T___T

On June 12 2010 12:59 AJMcSpiffy wrote:
I'm sure the BW scene wont just disappear overnight, at least I hope it wont. I'm more interested in how they're going to be affected by the lack of lan. The possibility of lag in a pro event is not a good thing.

On June 12 2010 16:27 faction123 wrote:
um, what is with this title

shameless exaggeration to fish for views you'd get anyway?

On June 12 2010 16:02 lolaloc wrote:
So many people didn't watch the video.

On June 12 2010 16:03 baytripper wrote:

WC3 [...] more diverse races

On June 12 2010 16:14 mdb wrote:
it has to pass at least an year to see how SC2 will develop. In my opinion although SC2 is a great game to play, it is has some very big issues with being spectator friendly, which is what really matters for a broadcasting companies. I think they will have to see how this aspect of the game turns out. WC3 is an example of this.

On June 12 2010 16:30 clickrush wrote:


the only difference is that Hwanni said "eventually" and not "probably"

On June 12 2010 17:10 endy wrote:


Because with MBS, automine, smart cast, and units that have to stop moving to attack, any noob can have Flash's rines macro, cast storm like Jangbi, and it's very hard to micro attacking units, and it's useless to micro workers. I don't see how giving more time to SC2 will change anything to what I mention above.

On June 12 2010 17:20 metaldragon wrote:



Ive talked to and Seen like a said a few player go back to BW with noticeably better skills then they had. If Sc2 was the easier game I think the opposite would be more apparent.

On June 12 2010 16:44 EvilTeletubby wrote:
Corrected the horribly misleading title.

After fully watching the video, Hwanni absolutely disagreed with you about this "potentially being the last OSL" for SC1.

On June 12 2010 17:20 metaldragon wrote:



You might "think" this is true but a few players have actually coem back tot BW with Better Skills then they had when they Left for Sc2.

Sc2 is more demanding in some form than BW is. How exactly Im not sure. On paper it looks like sc2 is a easier game but in practice this doesn't seem to be the case.

Is it the added Macro Mechanics? (forcing better decision making?)

Is It the addition of more "hard counters" (forcing better scouting?)

Ive talked to and Seen like a said a few player go back to BW with noticeably better skills then they had. If Sc2 was the easier game I think the opposite would be more apparent.


I'm not saying SC2 is a "harder" game but its definitely a "different" game.

On June 12 2010 17:41 endy wrote:


I was not only saying that SC2 doesn't require as much skill as BW, but rather that the lack of skill impacts from a spectator point of view. You can't be like " :O :O :O these storms where fucking incredible, I love you Jangbi" when watching SC2. You're more like "oh smart cast, ok". You can't be " :O :O :O Flash has such an impressive rines macro omg omg". Just "oh that's a nice macro, thanks MBS"

And the other thing is as Idra mentionned, the game is quite balanced in terms of win ratios per matchup, but actually, some race are overpowered at early game, some are overpowered in the end, so that's another reason sc2 games are not interesting to watch.

the other thing is as Idra mentionned, the game is quite balanced in terms of win ratios per matchup, but actually, some race are overpowered at early game, some are overpowered in the end, so that's another reason sc2 games are not interesting to watch.

On June 12 2010 17:39 raga4ka wrote:


You are joking right ? The only players that gets better at BW by playing SC2 is the players that have never actually played BW competitively . On the other hand a D+/C- level iccup player can easily be a high ranked diamond league player if he practised his builds and timing just a little .

On June 12 2010 18:00 RoieTRS wrote:
What makes you think that sc2 has more decisions to be made than scbw?

So far to me it is just some dumbed down game to appeal to less good players.

On June 12 2010 17:57 metaldragon wrote:


BTW For the Record Idra actually just did he best yet as far as OSL qualifiers and we all know he's been playing ALOT less sc1 lately...to say the least. I think Sc2 forces better decision making and/or scouting then Sc1.

On June 12 2010 18:00 RoieTRS wrote:
What makes you think that sc2 has more decisions to be made than scbw?

So far to me it is just some dumbed down game to appeal to less good players.

On June 12 2010 18:04 endy wrote:


Are you serious ? Are you trying to say Idra beat Gorush because he played SC2 ? If Sc2 makes you better at SC1 why aren't all the SC1 progamers playing SC2 to improve at SC1 ? This doesn't make any sense. I think Idra came to this qualifiers with no pressure, so he just came relaxed and confident and did great. And anyway even if I am wrong about Idra, you only gave one case and tried to generalize. As someone just said, just look at all these iccup Ds that are on top of their diamond leagues...

On June 12 2010 18:26 metaldragon wrote:



Who cares if a D rank is #1 in diamond? so are all the C's B's And A's! We have WOW players in the beta for crying out loud and there are hundreds of leagues at this point.

The Skill Gap is still very easy to notice between good players and Great players and It not hard to tell the the skill ceiling has not even come close to being reached.

Sc2 is a Different Game It not fair to call it a Worst game or even a "Easier" game at this point.

On June 12 2010 18:18 bias- wrote:
I'm dismayed...

Watching a new game that's not fully developed and gets completely turned upside-down by subtle patch changes... in no way compares to watching the pinnacle of years of labor - a rivalry of Flash versus Jaedong. Or Zero, or any of the S class players.

Starcraft has given me much joy as a player and spectator. This conveniently provides my opportunity to exit the scene by saying this new game is the spawn of a different company than that which made the first game. This one is not in it for the fans, the community, or most importantly the players that have worked so hard to bring it where it is today.

On June 12 2010 18:30 Jimmeh wrote:


SC2 is objectively easier though. MBS, auto-mining etc. makes the game a ton easier for everyone. The argument shouldn't be "Is SC2 easier than SC1?" but rather "Will SC2 have as high a skill level as SC1 did?" which only time will tell.

On June 12 2010 13:40 andeh wrote:
cant wait to see how they play sc2 with the current lack of features with battlenet/sc2 in general

dont fck this up blizzard.

this is kind of crazy, considering no lan latency/less than ideal maps.

will blizzcon be before or after the next osl prelims? because blizzcon will (probably) have a sc2 tournament, and I CAN NOT WAIT to see how blizz runs the sc2 blizzcon tournament

On June 12 2010 18:42 metaldragon wrote:



True enough...The Macro has gotten a little easier but the choices you make have gotten harder IMO.

I'm sure everyone agree thats scouting in Sc2 in much more important than scouting in BW.

I Do Hope to see the skill ceiling pushed as high as BW has been pushed.

On June 12 2010 17:39 raga4ka wrote:


You are joking right ? The only players that gets better at BW by playing SC2 is the players that have never actually played BW competitively . On the other hand a D+/C- level iccup player can easily be a top ranked diamond league player if he practised his builds and timing just a little .

On June 12 2010 18:56 Neobick wrote:
They call us afraid of change, afraid of new possibilities.

They say we are stuck up, stupid and living in the past.

The truth is though eternal, you wouldnt exchange chess for chess 2: Revenge of the pawns. You wouldnt make Citizen kane 2 with 3d graphic. Graphic isnt everything, change isnt always good and tradition is worth keeping. Just because its a video game doesnt mean that it should be revised to something more commercally viable. I sound like a conservative when I doesnt want to, but I have to state that there is a reason people think the original starwars movies are better than the prequels, and its not because it had more special effects.

On June 12 2010 19:41 bueks wrote: I dont think SC1 was as competitive as SC2 already is, when it came out.

On June 12 2010 19:34 Firien wrote:
so savior will play in OSL once again :D its not SC after all .

On June 12 2010 16:56 immacolate wrote:
roger you are an assclown and I am sure that you love that fact.

User was warned for this post

On June 12 2010 20:30 Jackle wrote:


That's just a stupid comparison. Starcraft 2 has over 10+ years of foundation to make it as popular as it is today.

On June 12 2010 20:30 Jackle wrote:


That's just a stupid comparison. Starcraft 2 has over 10+ years of foundation to make it as popular as it is today.

On June 12 2010 22:15 Kyo Yuy wrote:

Popular? Yes. Competitive? Not so sure.

...When it's a completely new game with new units, AI pathing, and macro mechanics, not so much.

The majority of the casual fanbase would be upset if Blizzard removed MBS and automine just to make the game more competitive at the highest level.

Sad to say, there's more to Blizzard games than just trying to make them work for E-Sports/the 10% of the fanbase that consists of hardcore fans.

On June 12 2010 22:44 drewbie.root wrote:


have you played sc2? have you been on top of diamond league?
no you are just a little noob, and anyone who goes and plays over 500 games of SC2 will never be able to play BW again, because you will realize what the rest of the world sees. The graphics are god awful horrible, the pathing is completely RETARDED, and you need to spend half your time in the game sending workers to mine. lol. SC2 is the future, get on board, it is better than BW.

On June 12 2010 20:14 darmousseh wrote:


I must cite that there have been new rules added to chess that drastically altered the game.

1. Adding in the ability for pawns to move two spaces on it's first move and en passant with that
2. The addition of the game clock
3. The addition of draw rules
4. The change of the bishop and queen. They even started calling it queen chess.

Popular rules always find their way to the top along with popular games in esports. Why broadcast for a crowd of 10,000 when you can broadcast to 100,000.