As far as I remember, only EMP (terran) and fungus (Zerg) can remove cloak for a limited amount of time.
It would be great if psi storm or some other spell of protoss can reveal cloak, which let you use micro to compensate for a late robo. So sort of ability to detect cloak is really needed if we want a balanced tech tree for protoss. (Robo > stargate and templar right now)
Terran, on the other hand, already have scan. Isn't the EMP reveal feature a bit overkill? Does Terran really need so many detection options? They already they maphack installed in command center and sensor tower.
Zerg also has a lot of overlord that can be morph into overseer anytime it is needed. They also have fungus. I feel Zerg detection is fine.
The observer is arguably the cheapest and the best detector in the game and the protoss have a spell that cloaks units(although rarely seen), so I think it is an acceptable design decision for then not to have a revealing spell.
It would also be great if this ability were available before psistorm, since that's extremely late into the game. EMP is available extremely early, and fungal at t2. Psistorm is t3 plus a t3 research, so really too late for you to not have a robo in any case.
I can't think of any other ability it could be, though, so I doubt it'll ever happen.
The three races should have advantages and disadvantages. By this logic siege tanks should have the colossus ability to walk up ridges because their mobility is horrible otherwise and they clump up on ramps. It's called planing and you have photon cannons.
As Talic_Zealot has already mentioned, the observer is really cheap. It comes out fast and even faster when chrono boosted. Just because Terran and Zerg have an ability to decloak a unit it does not mean Protoss need one also. Just like how Zergs don't have a unit that can scale up and down cliffs.
On June 04 2010 16:44 Emon_ wrote: The three races should have advantages and disadvantages. By this logic siege tanks should have the colossus ability to walk up ridges because their mobility is horrible otherwise and they clump up on ramps. It's called planing and you have photon cannons.
I don't really think that's what it's about. It's less of a balance thing and more of conceptual game mechanic thing.
Perhaps it'd be imbalanced if toss had a reveal ability, but the thread isn't about balance, it's about the concept of it.
A good example of where this exists in the game is fungal growth, psionic storm, and EMP/seeker missle... these are all similar aoe damage abilities. They have some differences, and were balanced independently.
The point is, when someone proposes adding an entirely new concept to a race, don't say it'll be imbalanced, because balance is irrelevant (balance comes at a later stage than concept design).
ps: I'm not in support of giving toss any reveal ability, I just think it'd be cool to have that option in game. I don't know if it'd be imbalanced, because what unit would you even give it to? Psistorm comes too late to matter, and forcefield/guardian shield make no sense at all. So really, it's just not going to happen in any way that matters, but I still think it'd be a cool option.
well there wouldnt really be any point to adding that feature to psi storm. if you see a cloaked unit moving around it'll normally be one of a couple options. 1) burrowed roaches/infestors - just storm them and if they wanna do anything about it they have to unburrow. there they've just decloaked 2) ghosts/observer - storm will kill them anyways 3) banshees/dt - storm will force them to run away and take a pretty decent amount of damage. you can just watch the distortion and storm in their path and 2-3 storms will kill them 4) mothership - just feedback the MS
other than the HT there seems no other really viable protoss option. i suppose there could be a passive ability for the sentry or something. maybe a researchable ability at the cyber: "psionic sight" allows the sentry to detect nearby cloaked units. maybe have it a toggle ability that drains their energy (fairly quickly) and costs 250/250/30 to research. this way if you choose to skip robo tech you still have the option to obtain a detector (for a fairly hefty price)
On June 04 2010 16:42 Talic_Zealot wrote: The observer is arguably the cheapest and the best detector in the game and the protoss have a spell that cloaks units(although rarely seen), so I think it is an acceptable design decision for then not to have a revealing spell.
I agree with this, i've started to play alot of protoss lately (formerly a terran player) and protoss detection is fine in terms of detection. Observers are cheap and builds fast (if you chrono a observer it comes out in a couple of seconds) and Protoss players can build cannons for detection aswell so i strongly believe theres no need for it.
The races are different and work different, they don't need similar spells to be balanced.
Toss to me is just the race most lacking in emergency detection. Zerg have a hive and can thus go overseer from almost any build, and terran have scan available, as well as ravens available from a 1/1/1 opener which is so popular. Protoss, if going gateway heavy, or templar, or stargate have no mobile detection (and while 50/100 is pretty cheap for mobile detection, add in the cost of a robo bay only made for observers and then it is quite the time/cost commitment).
Not to say it is imba, every race has their strengths and weaknesses, but I do find when it comes to detection it is easiest to catch toss with their pants down.
you guys are forgetting that when protoss makes an observer you are sacrificing an immortal or collosus that can be used later on ( in a macro game), or some sort of marauder/roach allin.
its not as easy as you think it is to just make observers everywhere, i think its a good idea.
Yeah the games not about giving every race a similar ability thats the thing about Starcraft that makes it such an amazing RTS every race is pretty much Completely different. Just have to learn to adapt
I think robo tech for protoss is too necessary atm, maybe some other form of detection would help. I think the main thing is just how shit HT/DT tech branches are, I vote for psi storm coming pre-researched.
Also, Forcefield can trap cloaked ground units. Also Archon can probably splash cloaked/burrowed units if you attack your own shit nearby (confirm?). Also, mothership can vortex them (do they lose mana while gone if terran?).
On June 04 2010 17:47 shawabawa wrote: I think robo tech for protoss is too necessary atm, maybe some other form of detection would help. I think the main thing is just how shit HT/DT tech branches are, I vote for psi storm coming pre-researched.
just throw down couple of Cannons? No research for psi storms a bit much imo seeing as how powerfull it is
On June 04 2010 17:27 esaul17 wrote: Toss to me is just the race most lacking in emergency detection. Zerg have a hive and can thus go overseer from almost any build, and terran have scan available, as well as ravens available from a 1/1/1 opener which is so popular. Protoss, if going gateway heavy, or templar, or stargate have no mobile detection (and while 50/100 is pretty cheap for mobile detection, add in the cost of a robo bay only made for observers and then it is quite the time/cost commitment).
Not to say it is imba, every race has their strengths and weaknesses, but I do find when it comes to detection it is easiest to catch toss with their pants down.
I think it is fine the way it is now. You're going to want to go robo anyway to see what your opponent is doing when your worker gets chased out, not to mention you want the robo tech units in your mix. If you go Stargate your void/phoenix flies into their base allowing you to see their tech path. Worst case scenario when your pants are caught down you have to throw up some cannons.
On June 04 2010 17:30 lebalebaleba wrote: you guys are forgetting that when protoss makes an observer you are sacrificing an immortal or collosus that can be used later on ( in a macro game), or some sort of marauder/roach allin.
its not as easy as you think it is to just make observers everywhere, i think its a good idea.
Not entirely sure what you meant at the beginning, observers come out fairly quickly (you talk about macro and then allin, please clarify). You also don't need observers everywhere. Just where their army is, to check on their base from time to time, and where you might expect a drop. This really isn't any different to how you would use observers in SCBW.
On June 04 2010 17:47 shawabawa wrote: I think robo tech for protoss is too necessary atm, maybe some other form of detection would help. I think the main thing is just how shit HT/DT tech branches are, I vote for psi storm coming pre-researched.
Psi storm coming pre-researched would make HTs too good. I do agree with you that the HT/DT tech route is crap, I hate the Dark Shrine as it is right now.
I haven't actually checked this but do hallucinated obs detect(or can you hallucinate them)? if so I would think it a necessity if you wanted to go anything other than gate/robo
On June 04 2010 18:33 Darby.mcg wrote: I haven't actually checked this but do hallucinated obs detect(or can you hallucinate them)? if so I would think it a necessity if you wanted to go anything other than gate/robo
If you could get detection no matter what tech you choose as protoss, then there would be zero viability of any cloaked attacks. If your opponent goes for some kind of cloaked tech you have to react to it by either getting a robo or cannons. That seems quite sufficent.
Dude, just enjoy your invisible awesome observer. Look at how shoddy Zerg detection got in SC2, and terran has to waste his macro energy for scans now. Everyone has it harder except for protoss, and you want even storm to reveal invisible units ? Wtf.
On June 04 2010 19:04 Smu wrote: Dude, just enjoy your invisible awesome observer. Look at how shoddy Zerg detection got in SC2, and terran has to waste his macro energy for scans now. Everyone has it harder except for protoss, and you want even storm to reveal invisible units ? Wtf.
Excuse me? You can morph an overseer at any one of your overlords with NO tech (except lair, but that comes every game). Protoss has no detection without going robo. Terran's is the worst though, having to get starport with techlab for detection is nasty.
On June 04 2010 19:04 Smu wrote: Dude, just enjoy your invisible awesome observer. Look at how shoddy Zerg detection got in SC2, and terran has to waste his macro energy for scans now. Everyone has it harder except for protoss, and you want even storm to reveal invisible units ? Wtf.
Excuse me? You can morph an overseer at any one of your overlords with NO tech (except lair, but that comes every game). Protoss has no detection without going robo. Terran's is the worst though, having to get starport with techlab for detection is nasty.
Clearly zerg has the easiest detection
I personally think the detection for all races are equally hard-to-get
On June 04 2010 16:37 DarkwindHK wrote: As far as I remember, only EMP (terran) and fungus (Zerg) can remove cloak for a limited amount of time.
It would be great if psi storm or some other spell of protoss can reveal cloak, which let you use micro to compensate for a late robo. So sort of ability to detect cloak is really needed if we want a balanced tech tree for protoss. (Robo > stargate and templar right now)
Terran, on the other hand, already have scan. Isn't the EMP reveal feature a bit overkill? Does Terran really need so many detection options? They already they maphack installed in command center and sensor tower.
Zerg also has a lot of overlord that can be morph into overseer anytime it is needed. They also have fungus. I feel Zerg detection is fine.
Wait, what ? Terran having too many or too good detection ? Protoss already have the best detection in here, solely because of the fact it's permanently cloaked itself and VERY cheap. Terran may have turrets, scan, and raven, but those detection are far more expensive and less effective/reliable. When you get DTs on your face for example, what can you do ? Land turrets getting 3shot ? Scan they can run away from ? There is only raven as really reliable detection, and it's still way inferior to observers in this matter as it's like 4x more expensive and visible. If EMP didn't reveal some of the cloaked units, it would be a nightmare. Oh, and Scan is not even reliable, it's not like you run with OCs having energy all the time until late game.
Zergs detection is about the same as Terran, with spore crawlers, overseer and infestors, but still a bit easier to get I believe.
As for Protoss they really shouldn't complain about detection, observers are just excellent and unique for this matter, for both scouting and detecting. Not to mention canons, available extremely early.
On June 04 2010 18:48 Grend wrote: If you could get detection no matter what tech you choose as protoss, then there would be zero viability of any cloaked attacks. If your opponent goes for some kind of cloaked tech you have to react to it by either getting a robo or cannons. That seems quite sufficent.
Oh you mean like Terran, who gets OC anyway every single match and DT rushing them still works just fine?
On June 04 2010 18:33 Darby.mcg wrote: I haven't actually checked this but do hallucinated obs detect(or can you hallucinate them)? if so I would think it a necessity if you wanted to go anything other than gate/robo
Oh you mean like Terran, who gets OC anyway every single match and DT rushing them still works just fine?
Because Orbital Command Scans cost mana that could be used for other things? It would be excessive. Any protoss will get around to getting a robo sooner or later, and I for one like the mechanic with how you can punish all in gate play, or star gate play with quick dt`s. It just does not seem neccessary at all.
Oh you mean like Terran, who gets OC anyway every single match and DT rushing them still works just fine?
Because Orbital Command Scans cost mana that could be used for other things?
And Psi storm or whatever ability the OP is suggesting doesn't? Sure, scan 'costs money' (it doesn't, it just delays the harvesting of that money), but at 240 minerals per scan, that's totally worth it. If you save even 5 SCV's with it, you've more than broken even, and that's not even counting the opponent's loss of units.
The fundamental 'problem' here is that product Protoss' detection costs production time of a building that would otherwise be building units, whereas OC scan doesn't slow the production of your units and Overseer morph doesn't really affect your army either. Sure I can build 3 observers (one scouting, two covering base and expansion) just in case, but that's 150/300 and 120 seconds that I can't use my Robo for making Immortals, for instance. Cannons solve this problem but they're more expensive and static.
I'm not too sure this desperately needs changing, but your initial claim just has no backing. The other two races have easier/faster detection and cloaked attacks still work.
it would be kind of cool if feedback could work against cloaked things. So it'll remove any energy they have and they'll stop being cloaked and/or dead
Being pigeon-holed into having to make a robotics facility even if I'm not going robotics tech to have any form of detection outside my base is incredibly annoying. It's not infeasible to do, but having to make a robotics facility to have solid detection is lame.
scan 'costs money' (it doesn't, it just delays the harvesting of that money)
This is migraine inducing.
The races are not mirrors. They work differently. The way Protoss detection works (Observer), is that it is extremely effective at countering enemy cloak harass, as it is cloaked (Hard to get rid of) and quite fast. OC scans are costly and can be avoided, and if you do avoid them. You`re in good shape, as the energy then has to recharge. This is just an example to show the difference between the races and detection.
Zerg has always had easily available detection, and I think one of the reasons why is the fact that they usually have more bases than the other races.
As Observers are more of a hard counter to any kind of quick cloak attack than the detection the other races have, I think it seems fair, that Protoss have less other ways of detection so as to add to the rather limited use of cloak atm. I like mechanics that do not allow you to do whatever you feel like without scouting, and yet being able to counter your opponents move. Feel free to disagree.
What your point about building time has to do with anything I have written I do not know.
scan 'costs money' (it doesn't, it just delays the harvesting of that money)
This is migraine inducing.
What is so complicated about that? If I spend 50/100 on an observer, that is 50/100 that I cannot possibly use on other units. The mineral from the patch is gone. Not using mules doesn't cost anything, the minerals are still there; it'll just take you longer to get them. When you look at a situation where you are contained and cannot expand, this is a very clear difference.
Also, yes. I am aware that the races are different. Other people than you posted that in this thread multiple times and I never said otherwise. Instead, I am discussing these differences. Considering that stuff like Burrow, Banshees, Ghosts, etc are vastly more accessible than DT's or mothership, I find it funny that the race without these easy cloak harass options also doesn't have any on-the-spot detection.
What your point about building time has to do with anything I have written I do not know.
I'm talking about a scenario where you are caught guard down by a few cloaked units in your base. So was the OP, I assume.
In the case that you don't have detection, Zerg can react within 17 seconds (Overseer), while Terran can react instantly (Scan). Protoss can only react after 27 seconds (Obs, chronoboosted) which is an eternity when there's 5+ banshees eating away at your probes/base. THAT is how the build times relate to your argument.
These are only the counters to cloak that you're basically always going to have and that aren't static defense. Protoss can use Storm, Terran can use EMP, Zerg can cast Fungal, yes. But that assumes you've got that tech at your disposal. Same for cannons, turrets and spores.
Like I said, it's not a huge deal. I can manage to get by just fine, but it has created a situation for Protoss where you'll have to be very aware of where your observers are and how many you have, lest you get overrun by relatively few units.
People keep saying an obs is quick to get with a boost so it is fine, I think people are forgetting that there are other options for protoss besides going straight for a robo. If you add in the robo build time the time spent waiting for detection is quite longer. I don't think the problem of detection occurs when someone already has a robo, almost always the first or second unit out is an obs. The detection problems occur when you don't have a robo at all. As for cannons, if your opponent uses cloak defensively good luck getting that pylon and cannon up to reveal them in their base.
What is so complicated about that? If I spend 50/100 on an observer, that is 50/100 that I cannot possibly use on other units. The mineral from the patch is gone. Not using mules doesn't cost anything, the minerals are still there; it'll just take you longer to get them. When you look at a situation where you are contained and cannot expand, this is a very clear difference.
Also, yes. I am aware that the races are different. Other people than you posted that in this thread multiple times and I never said otherwise. Instead, I am discussing these differences. Considering that stuff like Burrow, Banshees, Ghosts, etc are vastly more accessible than DT's or mothership, I find it funny that the race without these easy cloak harass options also doesn't have any on-the-spot detection.
Except minerals sitting in that mineral patch are basically worthless until you can use them to actually build things. The slower your harvesting rate the slower your tech, your production, etc.
Against protoss with the ability to chronoboost and spit out probes at a high rate, this is a very very bad thing.
If you don't know why this is bad, then I'm afraid I can't help you.
And others have pointed out quite helpfully on why all of the terran methods of detection have very high costs to them.
Observers are hard/expensive to get? Using EMP to detect means you've spent 300/200 for detection, on a unit that'll get 2 shot by a DT, that requires energy in order to use EMP to boot.
The Raven is pretty solid for detection (other than being made out of paper), but requires even more teching.
Missile turrets are static, fragile, can't defend against ground, and have to be built by a unit that gets 1 shot by DTs (panic building MTs is an expensive venture in futility).
And I've already explained the cost of scans, not to mention its not like DTs can't just run away and come back again.
I'm talking about a scenario where you are caught guard down by a few cloaked units in your base. So was the OP, I assume.
In the case that you don't have detection, Zerg can react within 17 seconds (Overseer), while Terran can react instantly (Scan). Protoss can only react after 27 seconds (Obs, chronoboosted) which is an eternity when there's 5+ banshees eating away at your probes/base. THAT is how the build times relate to your argument.
These are only the counters to cloak that you're basically always going to have and that aren't static defense. Protoss can use Storm, Terran can use EMP, Zerg can cast Fungal, yes. But that assumes you've got that tech at your disposal. Same for cannons, turrets and spores.
Like I said, it's not a huge deal. I can manage to get by just fine, but it has created a situation for Protoss where you'll have to be very aware of where your observers are and how many you have, lest you get overrun by relatively few units.
You mean you need to scout and be aware of your army? Different races play differently? Say it ain't so!?!!
On June 05 2010 00:12 Sniggle wrote: People keep saying an obs is quick to get with a boost so it is fine, I think people are forgetting that there are other options for protoss besides going straight for a robo. If you add in the robo build time the time spent waiting for detection is quite longer. I don't think the problem of detection occurs when someone already has a robo, almost always the first or second unit out is an obs. The detection problems occur when you don't have a robo at all. As for cannons, if your opponent uses cloak defensively good luck getting that pylon and cannon up to reveal them in their base.
That is the risk you take when you skip the robo and proceed down another tech path. If you are skipping the robo then you are going to want to scout aggressively to see what they are up. If you don't know what they are doing then it's probably best you should get a robo and obs to find out instead of playing in the dark.
When people mentioned cannons they meant in their own base like the mineral line, and you would either fall back until you get detection or keep fighting doing as much damage as you can at the cost of your units.
Part of being Protoss user is knowing how to use your observers and being active with them. As with all three races it's better to know and be prepared. I think Protoss detection is fine as it is.
I think the observer should be built from the nexus and only require a cyber core... Maybe up the time it takes to build one in this case, but this would make robo tech less of a necessity and give toss more room for stargate/templar play.
The crucial different between Terran/Zerg and Protoss detection is availability relative to tech paths. This is more important than some realize.
The point is that, without specifically teching/planning for detection, both Terran and Zerg have means of quickly obtaining detection in an emergency. You'd obviously prefer to save energy for M.U.L.E.s, or your gas for Muta/Hydralisks, but if and when a DT/Banshee rush occurs scans/Overseers exist to save you. Your build can "safely" ignore detection if you so choose, as you have means to defend yourself.
Protoss, on the other hand, are completely vulnerable without a Robotics Facility. Thus, it's imperative for a Protoss player to get one as soon as possible. Players wishing to pursue Templar tech or Air will often find themselves delaying in order to get Observers out.
I wouldn't go so far as to call the situation broken, but it is part of what contributes to the awkwardness of Templar tech.
that might still be too quick though, maybe make an upgrade option at the cyber core to upgrade a probe into an observer or something.. so that the observer will still come out at the same time as if you would have gotten it from a robo.
What is so complicated about that? If I spend 50/100 on an observer, that is 50/100 that I cannot possibly use on other units. The mineral from the patch is gone. Not using mules doesn't cost anything, the minerals are still there; it'll just take you longer to get them. When you look at a situation where you are contained and cannot expand, this is a very clear difference.
Also, yes. I am aware that the races are different. Other people than you posted that in this thread multiple times and I never said otherwise. Instead, I am discussing these differences. Considering that stuff like Burrow, Banshees, Ghosts, etc are vastly more accessible than DT's or mothership, I find it funny that the race without these easy cloak harass options also doesn't have any on-the-spot detection.
Except minerals sitting in that mineral patch are basically worthless until you can use them to actually build things. The slower your harvesting rate the slower your tech, your production, etc.
Against protoss with the ability to chronoboost and spit out probes at a high rate, this is a very very bad thing.
If you don't know why this is bad, then I'm afraid I can't help you.
And others have pointed out quite helpfully on why all of the terran methods of detection have very high costs to them.
Observers are hard/expensive to get? Using EMP to detect means you've spent 300/200 for detection, on a unit that'll get 2 shot by a DT, that requires energy in order to use EMP to boot.
The Raven is pretty solid for detection (other than being made out of paper), but requires even more teching.
Missile turrets are static, fragile, can't defend against ground, and have to be built by a unit that gets 1 shot by DTs (panic building MTs is an expensive venture in futility).
And I've already explained the cost of scans, not to mention its not like DTs can't just run away and come back again.
I'm talking about a scenario where you are caught guard down by a few cloaked units in your base. So was the OP, I assume.
In the case that you don't have detection, Zerg can react within 17 seconds (Overseer), while Terran can react instantly (Scan). Protoss can only react after 27 seconds (Obs, chronoboosted) which is an eternity when there's 5+ banshees eating away at your probes/base. THAT is how the build times relate to your argument.
These are only the counters to cloak that you're basically always going to have and that aren't static defense. Protoss can use Storm, Terran can use EMP, Zerg can cast Fungal, yes. But that assumes you've got that tech at your disposal. Same for cannons, turrets and spores.
Like I said, it's not a huge deal. I can manage to get by just fine, but it has created a situation for Protoss where you'll have to be very aware of where your observers are and how many you have, lest you get overrun by relatively few units.
You mean you need to scout and be aware of your army? Different races play differently? Say it ain't so!?!!
You're not understanding me correctly, I believe (and playing the "you're a newb" card, what a surprise...).
At the risk of straying so far from the OP's point that the original message is lost, I'll elaborate. Because apparently I have to explain everything three times before people stop reading it the wrong way.
When did I ever say that a Terran should build a ghost solely for the purpose of detection? I'm serious, quote it. What I said was that, whatever tech path Terran chooses, they'll have detectors. Air: Raven. Infantry: Ghost. ANY tech path at all: Scan.
Compare that to Protoss, who only get observers if they go with robo and they'll have a way of damaging cloaked units (not revealing them, so not quite as good) by means of Storm if they happen to have that researched. Sure, mid-late game you're going to have that robo as well, even if you went with Stargates or Templar tech, but in the early-to-mid game, you won't. That's a hefty investment, and it's one of the reasons Protoss nearly always go for and NEED a robo facility to even make it to the mid-late game.
There's no doubt that different races play differently, but the fact of the matter is that Protoss feels very linear to me, and Templar tech is quite hard to use effectively. I'm not the only one with this opinion, so you can stop it with the newb argument right there.
-
I'm just going to ignore the first and last part of your post since they are idiotic, if that's okay with you. If you've decided I'm a half wit, good for you, but I'm not going to respond to stuff like that.
On June 04 2010 16:42 Talic_Zealot wrote: The observer is arguably the cheapest and the best detector in the game and the protoss have a spell that cloaks units(although rarely seen), so I think it is an acceptable design decision for then not to have a revealing spell.
^this^ Protoss also has all the perma cloaked units while ghosts and banshees require energy to do it and zerg units can't attack (and some can't even more) while being burrowed. I think observer + perma cloaked units > scan & cloak revealing FG and EMP. easily. How often zerg actually uses FG to decloak anyway? I dare to say that if zerg can afford using FG for decloaking he/she can just as easily afford couple extra overseers.
You're not understanding me correctly, I believe (and playing the "you're a newb" card, what a surprise...).
At the risk of straying so far from the OP's point that the original message is lost, I'll elaborate. Because apparently I have to explain everything three times before people stop reading it the wrong way.
When did I ever say that a Terran should build a ghost solely for the purpose of detection? I'm serious, quote it. What I said was that, whatever tech path Terran chooses, they'll have detectors. Air: Raven. Infantry: Ghost. ANY tech path at all: Scan.
Compare that to Protoss, who only get observers if they go with robo and they'll have a way of damaging cloaked units (not revealing them, so not quite as good) by means of Storm if they happen to have that researched. Sure, mid-late game you're going to have that robo as well, even if you went with Stargates or Templar tech, but in the early-to-mid game, you won't. That's a hefty investment, and it's one of the reasons Protoss nearly always go for and NEED a robo facility to even make it to the mid-late game.
There's no doubt that different races play differently, but the fact of the matter is that Protoss feels very linear to me, and Templar tech is quite hard to use effectively. I'm not the only one with this opinion, so you can stop it with the newb argument right there.
-
I'm just going to ignore the first and last part of your post since they are idiotic, if that's okay with you. If you've decided I'm a half wit, good for you, but I'm not going to respond to stuff like that.
First I'll have to apologize, all of the "OMG (insert race I play) is da WORSTEST, (insert other race(s) here) are OP IMBA TOO STRONG BBQ and people who play them do questionable things with their dog" posts is starting to get to me and taking it out on your considerably more reasonable post is bad manners and bad form on my part.
Your concern in particular, seems to be towards emergency detection and the availability of detection throughout tech trees, I would argue the former is more or less only possible for Terran -and only if the player has enough energy which he most likely won't, (show me a terran player who just banks energy early game for scans who somehow is even in the same ballpark in terms of macro with his opponent and I'll concede this point). Emergency Overseers is possible, but take time, both to morph and travel, not to mention resources and the fact that overseers aren't any harder to kill compared to overlords and the fact that the cocoon can be sniped. Not to mention you need lair tech. So that leaves us with turrets, which Protoss arguably gets the upper hand with turrets that can both hit air and ground, and actual dedicated detectors.
You argue that since toss, regardless of w/e tech the player is trying to advanced towards must get robo bay before you have detection, that the toss is forced to make an heavy investment just for detection (albeit reliable detection), but I could also argue that in order for other races to have reliable detection they need to make a similar investment, with Terrans requiring both factory and starport with tech lab add on, and Zerg needing their lair.
So then that brings us back to emergency detection. Why templar storm? (unless that wasn't your idea) And if not that, then what else? I don't see a very reasonable place for this, other than adding an additional (most likely gateway) unit. And that, coupled with how potent gateway units can be, how quickly they can be produced and deployed, would be ridiculous.
EPT
