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On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 03:21 woolly wrote:
I suck at splitting anyways, I more often screw it up than get it right. Good riddance! and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing. Fantastic. this is like the saddest thing ever.
From what I remember, you can't call other people bad players.
The split mattered in SC1, I guess it isn't as vital now as it was back then... Oh well, just one little thing we won't have to worry about. I did like the splitting in sc1 though, I was good at it and it made me feel good 
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United States889 Posts
On June 03 2010 03:31 Backpack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote:On June 03 2010 03:21 woolly wrote:
I suck at splitting anyways, I more often screw it up than get it right. Good riddance! and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing. Fantastic. this is like the saddest thing ever. It is fantastic! I love how more new players are finally getting to play the game! Good job blizzard
I wouldn't go as far as mOnion, but this isn't a good thing.
I'm not a fan of arbitrary difficult tasks to increase skill ceiling, but this isn't arbitrary. The split was a measure of skill as much as it was of practice. When good players aren't rewarded for practice OR skill, then there's a problem with the game.
Fortunately this is just an aspect rather than the entire game, so somebody who has practiced will probably still crush somebody who doesn't, but I really don't think this is something to celebrate.
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On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 03:21 woolly wrote:
I suck at splitting anyways, I more often screw it up than get it right. Good riddance! and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing. Fantastic. this is like the saddest thing ever.
I'm sorry you've dedicated so much of your life learning how to split probes in order to get a very slight economic advantage in a competitive video game. Get well soon!
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Worker split itself was essential in BW, but once you got it down you basically had it perfect and was as good as Jaedong. What's the point of making people do this once in a game mechanic? I understand making macro harder, but there you can differentiate between the macro of Best vs. another progamer. No one has "perfect" macro and it's a good way to see differentiation in skill.
Worker split you do once a game, and when you get it down you're as good at it as any progamer. So removing the need to split doesn't hurt the game at all. The guy who can't split is still presumably less fast and precise than you, and that will pan out later in the game in actual important gameplay features.
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did you pause the game at the beginning, send to each patch 1 probe and then unpause, AND that gave you the same minerals as sending to 1 patch? I find that difficult to believe, as you can get different minerals gathered just by having good choice of which patches to mine (better to have 2 probes mining a good close patch that 1 on good and 1 on far away).
edit: pretty sure the information posted in invalid if I'm reading it correctly. That is that there is no difference if you're good enough to send each probe to a different close patch in the beginning and sending all probes to a bad patch. And just the fact that not all patches mine at the same rate (they have different distances to the base) makes me even more suspicious.
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Wouldn't buying a nice laser mouse have the same effect (if there was an effect) by reducing input lag?
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On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 03:21 woolly wrote:
I suck at splitting anyways, I more often screw it up than get it right. Good riddance! and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing. Fantastic. this is like the saddest thing ever. what an elitist and hypocritical post. seriously. what about you "moving up the ranks" due to MBS? i'm sure you didn't have perfect macro that could compete with high level koreans. i'm sure they think the same about you and the pathetic blessing you received from Blizzard.
Fantastic.
this is like the saddest thing ever.
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Shouldn't the fact the worker moves in a straight line to the minerals with a split and not the 'L' shape of an autosplit count for a few fractions of a second each? Maybe it's a matter of apm but I'd think it must. Try redoing the experiment at the slowest game speed to reduce all possible influences on your data. And how about the difference between rallying to empty patches with your first couple workers rather then just at a patch in the middle and letting them autosplit again?
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I think the actual value of a split is to establish a good mentality. If I do a perfect split my build timings invariably seem to fall into place. I know this is rough science, but I honestly think that splitting effectively is a morale boost to your early game attention.
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According to Nony, a proper 3-3 split on Steppes of War is the greatest of delights. No need for economical advantage when you just made your day a great day.
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I find that if I execute a split perfectly, build a probe and do an immaculate 3/3 split, then there is either like a 1 second wait or no wait between my 9th and 10th probe after I build a pylon on 9.
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.... Well...... disappointing but interesting.
Good work on the data. Still a bit difficult to believe that a PERFECT split yields no advantage at all...
Would this be the same for BW?
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I'm kind of surprised there's not like 15 or 20 extra minerals after two minutes but only midly so. Even before these results I always doubted that saving at the most one second of time by splitting the works would matter at all. Maybe if someone was gosu fast he could have more minerals with a certain kind of split sending certain workers to closer patches but there's room for error and I don't think the risk is worth the reward.
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Even if it does, I don't care enough to do it. There probably is a small advantage over a very long period of time, but I doubt it matters much at all
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United States12240 Posts
Yeah I'm a bit skeptical as to the results of this test. I'd like some extra details, or even better, video evidence. Splitting properly marks the difference between me ordering a second SCV just before the first one finishes (no production downtime) or just afterward.
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I encourage everyone to test it themselves if they doubt the data, really. I'm sure I did it imperfectly. I wouldn't have even posted about this, because I wasn't really trying to be scientifically perfect, except the results were precisely equal for all trials, so it seemed significant enough to share. I just wanted a general idea if I should care or not, and now I have one.
I didn't do an equal number of trials for each method (lol), but it was more than 10 for each.
Again, I encourage everyone to test it themselves. I'd rather be wrong. I feel like splitting should matter to some degree. Also I want a reason to keep doing the super awesome f1 split.
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Idk, when i don't split workers they tend to harvest from behind minerals and stuff, are you sure this is right? lol
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On June 03 2010 03:36 Arrian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 03:31 Backpack wrote:On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote:On June 03 2010 03:21 woolly wrote:
I suck at splitting anyways, I more often screw it up than get it right. Good riddance! and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing. Fantastic. this is like the saddest thing ever. It is fantastic! I love how more new players are finally getting to play the game! Good job blizzard I wouldn't go as far as mOnion, but this isn't a good thing. I'm not a fan of arbitrary difficult tasks to increase skill ceiling, but this isn't arbitrary. The split was a measure of skill as much as it was of practice. When good players aren't rewarded for practice OR skill, then there's a problem with the game. Fortunately this is just an aspect rather than the entire game, so somebody who has practiced will probably still crush somebody who doesn't, but I really don't think this is something to celebrate.
I was just messing with his negative attitude 
I honestly don't mind as I've gotten used to doing a 3-3 split anyway, but I don't think it will matter. Not that I want to bring this up again, but auto split/mine and MBS are only expanding the player base. It isn't really going to make a difference in the higher levels of play
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Depends on how well you can split. If you split well you can make your next worker before your first worker is finish. Not the case with AI split. Also makes you feel gosu
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Also keep in mind this was tested on QXC's build tester map, so that affects the mineral patch positioning. The rally point was set to the patch fourth from the top. With no split, workers were sent to the mineral patch fourth from the top. With the f1 split, each mineral was selected from top to bottom. With the half split, the workers were first sent to fifth from top, then half were sent to second from top.
Again, if I misclicked or felt I did it slowly/sloppily, I just restarted and tried again.
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EPT
