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Active: 1624 users

Worker splitting: Does it really matter? - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
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clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
June 02 2010 19:00 GMT
#41
On June 03 2010 03:36 Arrian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2010 03:31 Backpack wrote:
On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote:
On June 03 2010 03:21 woolly wrote:
I suck at splitting anyways, I more often screw it up than get it right. Good riddance!


and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing.

Fantastic.

this is like the saddest thing ever.

It is fantastic!

I love how more new players are finally getting to play the game! Good job blizzard


I wouldn't go as far as mOnion, but this isn't a good thing.

I'm not a fan of arbitrary difficult tasks to increase skill ceiling, but this isn't arbitrary. The split was a measure of skill as much as it was of practice. When good players aren't rewarded for practice OR skill, then there's a problem with the game.

Fortunately this is just an aspect rather than the entire game, so somebody who has practiced will probably still crush somebody who doesn't, but I really don't think this is something to celebrate.


players are rewarded for practice and skill in SC2. and I really like how they managed to improve this over SCBW.

some examples...

macro mechanics: In SCBW you have to practice splitting, selecting your production buildings one by one etc. this is very hard stuff and highly rewards practice and skill. In SC2 those things are either eliminated or simplified. instead you have the implemented macro-abilities that require energy. Now you do not have to practice that much, but you make decisions. mule/comsat? where to chrono? larvae/heal/tumor? etc.

micro mechanics: In SCBW you have to practice moving shot, dancing micro etc. This requires a high amount of APM and rewards practice and skill. In SC2 some of those things are gone. But now you have alot more abilites/unit that again require decision making besides the APM. So you have to decide where to blink, when to burrow move, which building you corrupt, which unit you beam, where to place FF etc. Plus there are also quite some abilites that do not require decision making but high APM and thus practice (if you want to fully exploit them) such as: marauder shells, feedback, banelings, thor cannons, ghost sniping etc.

TLDR: I really like how blizzard made things easyer that do not require decision making and implemented a lot of new features/abilities that require this.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
YJ_
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada36 Posts
June 02 2010 19:01 GMT
#42
On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2010 03:21 woolly wrote:
I suck at splitting anyways, I more often screw it up than get it right. Good riddance!


and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing.

Fantastic.

this is like the saddest thing ever.


lol
ryanyhc
Profile Joined June 2010
United States8 Posts
June 02 2010 19:02 GMT
#43
should compare your results with some of the players who have the best splits. it would be interesting to see a chart of all the best players right now (maybe an average of 3-5 games) and compare those to just sending all units to one patch.
Buddhist
Profile Joined April 2010
United States658 Posts
June 02 2010 19:02 GMT
#44
On June 03 2010 03:59 Slayer91 wrote:
Depends on how well you can split. If you split well you can make your next worker before your first worker is finish. Not the case with AI split. Also makes you feel gosu

I was able to begin producing the second probe before the first finished in every trial. It might have to do with the mineral positioning.
Actinium
Profile Joined April 2010
United States13 Posts
June 02 2010 19:04 GMT
#45
I guess regardless of fractional increases in how fast workers get to patches until those fractions add up to the 5 seconds it takes for a worker to go from hq to patch, mine, and then back to hq you wont see a difference in income, so largely isn't worth a huge apm investment.
professorjoak
Profile Joined July 2008
318 Posts
June 02 2010 19:05 GMT
#46
Awesome study. Honestly, I'm not too surprised. Just like overlord on 9/10/extractortrick doesn't really matter (and overlord on 8/9/extractor didn't matter in BW), the illusion that minor changes in build order will snowball into big changes later is over-hyped. On the other hand, I believe in the lasting effects of coming out ahead in the first micro battle.
"The different branches of Arithmetic -- Ambition, Distraction, Uglification, and Derision." --Lewis Carroll
Weird
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States832 Posts
June 02 2010 19:05 GMT
#47
Excellent post, I am highly amused that the "split" seems to have no bearing on the game whatsoever, and of course am off to try a few tests of it myself (not that I don't believe you). Also +1 to Redtooth's post.
LazyScout
Profile Joined February 2010
United States223 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-02 19:09:44
June 02 2010 19:08 GMT
#48
I actually tried testing some splits too.
I did the f1 split as fast as I could, 3 and 3 split, and no split.
40 game seconds to get 200 minerals with first 6 workers with the f1 split.
40 game seconds to get 200 minerals with first 6 workers with 3 and 3 split.
41 game seconds to get 200 minerals with first 6 workers with no split.

I guess the 2, 2 and 2 split wouldn't be much different?

Barely and difference for any splits I guess :S

duck.fit
Profile Joined October 2008
United States241 Posts
June 02 2010 19:09 GMT
#49
On June 03 2010 03:46 spinesheath wrote:
According to Nony, a proper 3-3 split on Steppes of War is the greatest of delights. No need for economical advantage when you just made your day a great day.


But you do get a slight advantage with a perfect split on steps, because all the workers start mining with no initial travel time (there are 2 clumps of 3 minerals). Your advantage pretty much depends on where you sent the workers depending on how the starting minerals are arranged.
Purple and red and yellow and on fire
SoL[9]
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Portugal1370 Posts
June 02 2010 19:09 GMT
#50
Nice numbers
Ty
I Can Fly...
ChickenLips
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2912 Posts
June 02 2010 19:09 GMT
#51
1. I always am able to qeue up a 2nd worker just before the first one finishes, no matter if i split or not and i train the worker first, then send the workers mining.

2. It really doesn't matter and I LOVE how Blizzard isn't rewarding stupid, brainless macro practice like in BW (yeah I know, you all love BW and everything was perfect in the good old days..), but allows for much more decision making.

People are obviously going to complain if what they are used to is replaced by something new and different. Let's give the game some time. (Like Day9 said)
❤Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿
SichuanPanda
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1542 Posts
June 02 2010 19:11 GMT
#52
For me the worker split is simply to warm-up my micro, and while in the long run it doesn't make you have more money, it makes the timing of your 8th worker better (i.e. if you split you will always have 50 or more mins ready to make 8th when 7th pops, but straight 6 to one patch may leave you waiting a second or two). Personally though like I said for me its all about warming up I challenge myself to see how fast and accurately I can split probes (I do a 4-2 split, and then send one of the 4 to his own patch, making it a 3-2-1 split) there's no real reason for me to do this I find other than to check my speed. Game where I do a a straight 6 to one (which is rare now) I don't notice a difference by the time I get my expo up (6-8 mins).
i-bonjwa
Bluedraqy
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark496 Posts
June 02 2010 19:12 GMT
#53
I usually build my SCV, then choose my SCVs to mine, and aslong as I have money to queue up another SCV Before the first one finishes, I consider that a succeeded split =)
UnderWorld_Dream
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada219 Posts
June 02 2010 19:14 GMT
#54
yea i had tested it out myself and noticed no difference in the mineral count,

glad that you have written the details on this!
Glaven
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada554 Posts
June 02 2010 19:15 GMT
#55
I've always suspected this, but I still split to look cool.
Special Tactics
SichuanPanda
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1542 Posts
June 02 2010 19:16 GMT
#56
On June 03 2010 04:12 Bluedraqy wrote:
I usually build my SCV, then choose my SCVs to mine, and aslong as I have money to queue up another SCV Before the first one finishes, I consider that a succeeded split =)


Yea essentially. By the way welcome to TL, congrats on making a good 2nd post! I try to get my first worker built so that it says Probe/Drone/SCV 0:00 at the build order screen, and then I do my split or just send all 6 to one patch, some days I'm not in a high-APM mode, others I am so that will determine what I do with starting 6.
i-bonjwa
Rah
Profile Joined February 2010
United States973 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-02 19:53:02
June 02 2010 19:16 GMT
#57
Any answer on which method is better between sending probes right away and then building the first probe after, or building the probe first sending probes to mine after? The results for that aren't clearly shown on the tables since you had a different number of probes with each method by the 2 minute mark.
Streaming on twitch. http://www.twitch.tv/rahsun86
Zenzou
Profile Joined March 2010
United States67 Posts
June 02 2010 19:24 GMT
#58
I think one thing everyone is neglecting is the map: there are certain maps where depending on how you split, one or more worker(s) will go to the other side of the a mineral patch to mine. You might lose .5 seconds of mining time, but think of it in terms of your wage, say you're making 9.25 vs 9.30. Sure it's only a small difference, but over time that adds up.
"Darkness is not the opposite of Light, it is the absence of Light."
Clamev
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Germany498 Posts
June 02 2010 19:26 GMT
#59
I think it is more important to "order" youre first workers that spawn.
Day[9] showd it in his daylie about openings.
It is about that you tell the workers to mine where there aren´t any workers on.
And making it so that workers mine in a way that when one worker is finished mining that another one starts mining at the exact same point in time.
6Pool or die trying
One.two
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada116 Posts
June 02 2010 19:27 GMT
#60
On June 03 2010 03:36 gobrin wrote:
well, at least it still looks cool when you do a nice split.


Pro secret:
It's really only about how cool you look and how many times your camera flies around even if you're doing nothing.
SC2 Editor tutorials: http://www.youtube.com/onetwosc
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