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On June 03 2010 03:36 Arrian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 03:31 Backpack wrote:On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote:On June 03 2010 03:21 woolly wrote:
I suck at splitting anyways, I more often screw it up than get it right. Good riddance! and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing. Fantastic. this is like the saddest thing ever. It is fantastic! I love how more new players are finally getting to play the game! Good job blizzard  I wouldn't go as far as mOnion, but this isn't a good thing. I'm not a fan of arbitrary difficult tasks to increase skill ceiling, but this isn't arbitrary. The split was a measure of skill as much as it was of practice. When good players aren't rewarded for practice OR skill, then there's a problem with the game. Fortunately this is just an aspect rather than the entire game, so somebody who has practiced will probably still crush somebody who doesn't, but I really don't think this is something to celebrate.
players are rewarded for practice and skill in SC2. and I really like how they managed to improve this over SCBW.
some examples...
macro mechanics: In SCBW you have to practice splitting, selecting your production buildings one by one etc. this is very hard stuff and highly rewards practice and skill. In SC2 those things are either eliminated or simplified. instead you have the implemented macro-abilities that require energy. Now you do not have to practice that much, but you make decisions. mule/comsat? where to chrono? larvae/heal/tumor? etc.
micro mechanics: In SCBW you have to practice moving shot, dancing micro etc. This requires a high amount of APM and rewards practice and skill. In SC2 some of those things are gone. But now you have alot more abilites/unit that again require decision making besides the APM. So you have to decide where to blink, when to burrow move, which building you corrupt, which unit you beam, where to place FF etc. Plus there are also quite some abilites that do not require decision making but high APM and thus practice (if you want to fully exploit them) such as: marauder shells, feedback, banelings, thor cannons, ghost sniping etc.
TLDR: I really like how blizzard made things easyer that do not require decision making and implemented a lot of new features/abilities that require this.
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On June 03 2010 03:29 mOnion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 03:21 woolly wrote:
I suck at splitting anyways, I more often screw it up than get it right. Good riddance! and another terrible player moves up in the ranks due to Blizzard's pathetic blessing. Fantastic. this is like the saddest thing ever.
lol
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should compare your results with some of the players who have the best splits. it would be interesting to see a chart of all the best players right now (maybe an average of 3-5 games) and compare those to just sending all units to one patch.
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On June 03 2010 03:59 Slayer91 wrote:Depends on how well you can split. If you split well you can make your next worker before your first worker is finish. Not the case with AI split. Also makes you feel gosu
I was able to begin producing the second probe before the first finished in every trial. It might have to do with the mineral positioning.
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I guess regardless of fractional increases in how fast workers get to patches until those fractions add up to the 5 seconds it takes for a worker to go from hq to patch, mine, and then back to hq you wont see a difference in income, so largely isn't worth a huge apm investment.
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Awesome study. Honestly, I'm not too surprised. Just like overlord on 9/10/extractortrick doesn't really matter (and overlord on 8/9/extractor didn't matter in BW), the illusion that minor changes in build order will snowball into big changes later is over-hyped. On the other hand, I believe in the lasting effects of coming out ahead in the first micro battle.
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Excellent post, I am highly amused that the "split" seems to have no bearing on the game whatsoever, and of course am off to try a few tests of it myself (not that I don't believe you). Also +1 to Redtooth's post.
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I actually tried testing some splits too.
I did the f1 split as fast as I could, 3 and 3 split, and no split.
40 game seconds to get 200 minerals with first 6 workers with the f1 split.
40 game seconds to get 200 minerals with first 6 workers with 3 and 3 split.
41 game seconds to get 200 minerals with first 6 workers with no split.
I guess the 2, 2 and 2 split wouldn't be much different?
Barely and difference for any splits I guess :S
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On June 03 2010 03:46 spinesheath wrote:
According to Nony, a proper 3-3 split on Steppes of War is the greatest of delights. No need for economical advantage when you just made your day a great day.
But you do get a slight advantage with a perfect split on steps, because all the workers start mining with no initial travel time (there are 2 clumps of 3 minerals). Your advantage pretty much depends on where you sent the workers depending on how the starting minerals are arranged.
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1. I always am able to qeue up a 2nd worker just before the first one finishes, no matter if i split or not and i train the worker first, then send the workers mining.
2. It really doesn't matter and I LOVE how Blizzard isn't rewarding stupid, brainless macro practice like in BW (yeah I know, you all love BW and everything was perfect in the good old days..), but allows for much more decision making.
People are obviously going to complain if what they are used to is replaced by something new and different. Let's give the game some time. (Like Day9 said)
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For me the worker split is simply to warm-up my micro, and while in the long run it doesn't make you have more money, it makes the timing of your 8th worker better (i.e. if you split you will always have 50 or more mins ready to make 8th when 7th pops, but straight 6 to one patch may leave you waiting a second or two). Personally though like I said for me its all about warming up I challenge myself to see how fast and accurately I can split probes (I do a 4-2 split, and then send one of the 4 to his own patch, making it a 3-2-1 split) there's no real reason for me to do this I find other than to check my speed. Game where I do a a straight 6 to one (which is rare now) I don't notice a difference by the time I get my expo up (6-8 mins).
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I usually build my SCV, then choose my SCVs to mine, and aslong as I have money to queue up another SCV Before the first one finishes, I consider that a succeeded split =)
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yea i had tested it out myself and noticed no difference in the mineral count,
glad that you have written the details on this!
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I've always suspected this, but I still split to look cool.
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On June 03 2010 04:12 Bluedraqy wrote:
I usually build my SCV, then choose my SCVs to mine, and aslong as I have money to queue up another SCV Before the first one finishes, I consider that a succeeded split =)
Yea essentially. By the way welcome to TL, congrats on making a good 2nd post! I try to get my first worker built so that it says Probe/Drone/SCV 0:00 at the build order screen, and then I do my split or just send all 6 to one patch, some days I'm not in a high-APM mode, others I am so that will determine what I do with starting 6.
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Any answer on which method is better between sending probes right away and then building the first probe after, or building the probe first sending probes to mine after? The results for that aren't clearly shown on the tables since you had a different number of probes with each method by the 2 minute mark.
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I think one thing everyone is neglecting is the map: there are certain maps where depending on how you split, one or more worker(s) will go to the other side of the a mineral patch to mine. You might lose .5 seconds of mining time, but think of it in terms of your wage, say you're making 9.25 vs 9.30. Sure it's only a small difference, but over time that adds up.
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I think it is more important to "order" youre first workers that spawn.
Day[9] showd it in his daylie about openings.
It is about that you tell the workers to mine where there aren´t any workers on.
And making it so that workers mine in a way that when one worker is finished mining that another one starts mining at the exact same point in time.
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On June 03 2010 03:36 gobrin wrote:
well, at least it still looks cool when you do a nice split.
Pro secret:
It's really only about how cool you look and how many times your camera flies around even if you're doing nothing.
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EPT
