The Dark Templar is not an all in unit, since the dark shrine requires a Templar archives, if you have dts you already have the tech buildings for storm, charge, and blink. All of which are useful in a number of MUs.

Kisra

United Kingdom466 Posts

May 11 2010 23:40 GMT

#42

On May 12 2010 08:08 t3tsubo wrote:
RUSHING for anything should be a do or die strategy. I hardly ever rush for dts, theyre more of a midgame harrass unit that I can plop down to kill workers out of the pylons i have scattered around the map. I still robo bay first, and I personally dont find it very hard to hide my DT tech, just put it in a corner or at a corner of an unused base.

I tend to follow along this guy's thought processes. Dark Templar are something I use when I'm ahead or planning a frontal assault. I'll generally use a warp prism, warp about 3-4 in the back of their base, then push an expo or their front door with my main force. Sending the Dark Templars in at that point can generally snipe the command center/hatchery/nexus (An aside - is there a single word for that central building? Writing a list seems inefficient D:) or at least wreak some serious havoc.

That being said, I'm a Gold player, so I'm finding tactics that tend to fluster or make my enemy panic very very effective. The same is likely not true at high Plat level where they'll be able to gauge proportional response or realise that the army attacking at the front door is going to be smaller than theirs, due to the cost of DT tech.

Ideas

United States8167 Posts

May 11 2010 23:41 GMT

#43

i think it's pretty obvious that one of the expansions will give dark shrine an upgrade for DTs down the road. IMO I think each expansion will add 1 new unit and 2 or 3 new abilities to each race. There is clearly a hole in the dark shrine for a new ability down the road.

ArvickHero

10387 Posts

May 11 2010 23:44 GMT

#44

Dark shrine feels so tacked on though, it should really be removed from the game. If it was a prerequisite building to say, Void Rays (like how Templar Archives was needed for Arbiter Tribunial, which leads us to the DT Rush into 2 base Arbiters strategy), the Dark Shrine could serve as a sexy build full of smooth transitions, but otherwise it feels too tacked on.

DTWolfwood

38 Posts

May 12 2010 13:50 GMT

#45

Y not just give the DT a speed boost upgrade and an attack speed upgrade. have the upgrades take 100 seconds instead of the darkshrine taking so long :D

Netherlands12045 Posts

May 12 2010 15:33 GMT

#46

the thing is in some specific situation, DTs turn out to be an absolute solution such that if you buff it even more, it will become imba

deciding to go DTs make you lose the chance to get the other branch of tech (blink/charge/HT) but come to think of it, for example, PvP with ur foe 4gates rush into expan (which is kinda fail

) when can clearly see the lack of detection

or with the buff of tanks, T users start having mech in their army, this mean that engineering bay and turret will less likely appear early game which "just enough" time for you to do a DT rush...

same to zerg if you can pull out phoenixes dts

but all of the above require an excellence timing + scouting information which can hardly pull of from 2 people as the same skill level which make DTs become a risky build.

personally im still using it, alot, and die+regret since i didnt go HT but some time it turns out to be perfect xD

DTs using was the Protoss' art in Starcraft and same thing goes for sc2 xD

UnderWorld_Dream

Canada219 Posts

May 12 2010 17:27 GMT

#47

The Dark Shrine design is, by itself, special.

I mean, its 2x2 on the grid, and it goes tall as if it was a tower or something. So it's meant to be placed almost anywhere on the map (to hide it) and it's very unique and easy to spot.

It is meant to easily reveal the tech if you manage to spot it. Thus, it can't be merged with the archives and does not need any upgrades, it's a tech-revealer building, if we can call it that way.

Taekwon

United States8155 Posts

May 28 2010 16:05 GMT

#48

All we can hope for is another patch by Blizzard or hope when the full version comes out, somebody (progamer or not) will revolutionize its metagame (P)

Bisu style

clickrush

Switzerland3257 Posts

May 28 2010 16:15 GMT

#49

countersuggestion:

Leave the tech as it is and add an upgrade to the shrine:
- DTs can cloak other units (with the use of energy)

It would be countered by the same things that counters DTs and give the shrinetech variety.

Seltsam

United States343 Posts

May 28 2010 16:21 GMT

#50

The only thing I would like to see is an upgrade in the DS that gives DTs the ability to switch between faster attack speed and permacloak. When you have the "fast attack" mode on, the DT is completely visible, attacks more quickly, and has the same damage it has now, and in the other mode, they are they way they are now but with a lower attack. It would work similar to the way siege mode works for tanks. Then lower the cost of the shrine to maybe 150 gas, and make the upgrade 150/150 or 200/150 or something along those lines. This would make DT harassment less "end-the-game-now-if-it-works," and give them a utility beyond just harassing mineral lines, as they would be no more useful than any other unit as harassment, but give them potential utility in the protoss' main army.

stolensheep

United Kingdom306 Posts

May 28 2010 16:23 GMT

#51

I think the whole templar tech tree is botched, they need to have one building again, and maybe bring back dark archons with new abilities!

Ocedic

United States1808 Posts

May 28 2010 16:25 GMT

#52

I remember one game of PvP being extremely behind as he went a heavy aggression build of Gateways on Steppes. I managed to repel him but at the cost of many probes, severely hurting my economy. I decided to use a last ditch effort and build a dark shrine, and distracted him with the remaining stalkers I had.

I managed to get a DT in and he only had 1 pylon powering ALL his production buildings (lol) and destroyed it. Was a great comeback :D

Morayfire73

United States298 Posts

May 28 2010 16:37 GMT

#53

I think just decreasing the build time on the dark shrine would fix the problem, as by the time you get them out, mobile detection is available for all races.

RifleCow

Canada637 Posts

May 28 2010 16:46 GMT

#54

Right now dark shrine only requires a twilight council and no templar archives. Therefore, the player is forced to choose either ht or dt. Instead, the player should be given more incentive to make dark templars, by getting the dark shrine. I think the best way to do this would be to add upgrades to stalker and pheonix through the dark shrine. Maybe greater atack range for the stalker and more armor for the pheonix.

Ryuu314

United States12679 Posts

May 28 2010 16:53 GMT

#55

On May 12 2010 08:37 mity wrote:
The Dark Templar is not an all in unit, since the dark shrine requires a Templar archives, if you have dts you already have the tech buildings for storm, charge, and blink. All of which are useful in a number of MUs.

You fail sir. Dark Shrine does not require a templar archives. It only requires a citadel.

Personally, I think DTs are perfectly fine as is. Even after detection, they still do a really good amount of damage to merit being put in with your regular army. At 3 upgrades, they do a whopping 60 damage per hit. In addition, if your opponent does not carry detection along with their army, it is easy to snipe key units during an engagement anyways.

DTs need no changing.

clickrush

Switzerland3257 Posts

May 28 2010 16:53 GMT

#56

On May 29 2010 01:23 jamie wrote:
I think the whole templar tech tree is botched, they need to have one building again, and maybe bring back dark archons with new abilities!

I actually like the fact that the templar tech is split. But the DT needs an upgrade at the shrine that supports his role. I do not like the suggestions here that would make DTs come out faster or that make him more of a fighting unit.

so take a look at his role: DTs are harassers. they pop out where your defense and scouting is weak. and exactly this should be improved and not the other way around!

The darkshrine upgrade could be one of the following (just to give a few examples):

- significantly more damage to buildings
(enemy has spread defenses so you build DTs and make use of it)

-ability to cloack other units with energy
(like I suggested above, it would be countered in the same way as DTs themselves but it would improve tactical varieties of the shrine)

-significant movementspeed upgrade
(this would make the immobile lategame protoss army more mobile in general. and the DTs would be more reactive)

-AoE unit lockdown (like Feedback from SCBW)
(remember this underused BW ability? on the DT it would make sense since its better against less units. the more units it hits the less it endures. so it would be exactly a harassing ability)

-singletarget lockdown
(similar as above)

-income steal from a nexus/hatch/cc
(again a pure harassing thing. maybe it should be only a % of the total income or a fix amount per DT)

my personal preference would be the +dmg against buildings or the income steal

Mack

United States25 Posts

May 28 2010 16:54 GMT

#57

Wouldn't it be cool if the dark shrine was a cloaked building?

TheKing

Australia186 Posts

May 28 2010 16:54 GMT

#58

I think it would be cool if Dark shrine could act as a secondary macro ability where you can cloak individual units for a few seconds, like a chronoboost that cloaks units like immortals/high templars/voidrays/collosus at critical moments in the game.

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