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On May 11 2010 07:49 kidcrash wrote:
Circular argument, completely ignoring the point that it's giving the player with a disadvantage a cushion, thus lowering the skill ceiling.
Yes, it does lower the skill ceiling, just as each expo bringing all the resources to you lowers the skill ceiling. Do we really want to make the game as hard as possible, just so it takes a very high amount of skill to play?
Also, how is it circular? If I am as dumb as you imply, you will actually have to explain how your points matter.
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On May 11 2010 07:48 Zeke50100 wrote:
Sure, you can just donate your money to your partner, but what happens when the opposing team takes them out, too? They will obviously have no production buildings (or, at least, not enough to defend), and have no way of using the resources their partner just sends them.
If both players are getting their tech buildings sniped, I don't think feeding is an issue at that point, it's pretty much gg.
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Didn't bother to read all the answers, but here are my 2 cents : feeding is a tool, everyone has access to it, so if it is any good, it will become a key tool in any teamplay. Where is the problem ? I mean if both team use it, the better one will prevail. You say tha in "no time" you can get 6-8 cloaked banshees to attack, whch mean you can also get 20 mutaliks to defend isn't it ?
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On May 11 2010 07:53 Omegalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 07:49 kidcrash wrote:
Circular argument, completely ignoring the point that it's giving the player with a disadvantage a cushion, thus lowering the skill ceiling. Yes, it does lower the skill ceiling, just as each expo bringing all the resources to you lowers the skill ceiling. Do we really want to make the game as hard as possible, just so it takes a very high amount of skill to play? Also, how is it circular? If I am as dumb as you imply, you will actually have to explain how your points matter.
So are you saying 2v2 in SC:BW was too hard because you couldn't share resources?
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Option: Make an enable/disable button
BAM! Problem solved.
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On May 11 2010 07:55 kidcrash wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 07:48 Zeke50100 wrote:
Sure, you can just donate your money to your partner, but what happens when the opposing team takes them out, too? They will obviously have no production buildings (or, at least, not enough to defend), and have no way of using the resources their partner just sends them. If both players are getting their tech buildings sniped, I don't think feeding is an issue at that point, it's pretty much gg.
The thing is, beating just ONE of the players will grant you a near-instant victory (depending on how good you and your partner actually are, which is why it's not always an auto-win). Either they have no source of units despite having plenty of resources, or a dwindling resource supply that cannot support the source of units that they DO have.
In short:
If you're P, make a 2 Gate Push
If you're Z, push with Lings and/or Roaches
If you're T, push with Stimrauders
Of course, do this in conjunction with your partner after you scout that one player doesn't have...anything.
At best, Z can have a Pool and a Lair and a Spire on the way, T can have a Starport in production, and P can have a Stargate in production, and this is assuming they skipped the steps in between.
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On May 11 2010 07:48 Zeke50100 wrote:
Seems to me that there is definitely an opportunity cost to Feeding, which includes the inability to use the tech tree for the player who is feeding the resources.
See, you're adding words that I didn't use in order to make a weak argument. Consider a terran building marines and marauders (a standard opening). He uses little gas on the labs and the marauders and sends 600 off to his friend at the 5 minute mark. Or a zerg going speedlings for the first few minutes of the game with some roaches. The opportunity cost is negligible because these openings are strong enough to hold the fort while the feed takes place.
On May 11 2010 07:48 Zeke50100 wrote:
Also, if you can't scout feeding, I don't know what you've been doing. Do you not notice the lack of any production buildings?
That's not how it works. There are production buildings because the feeder can afford to build a base and an army and still feed. Look at the replays posted by others in this thread. Even my replay showcases that.
I kept it to PMs last time but this is too much. You're an idiot, and you haven't read the thread.
On May 11 2010 07:48 Zeke50100 wrote:
Also, there is definitely punishment in not being able to spend resources as planned: You've destroyed their tech. That's ~300 Minerals and Gas wasting on the tech buildings that ended up being useless. I don't know about you, but I'd say that's the equivalent of losing 2 unsaturated expansions (3 for Zerg).
I can't believe I still make the mistake of assuming that people posting are intelligent individuals. "that's the equivalent of 2 unsaturated expansions." Are you sure it's not the equivalent of two pieces of string and a yellow button?
If stupidity was met with bans, this discussion wouldn't have reached 25 replies.
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I think feeding strategies are something that should be taken seriously by Blizzard. This could easily get out of hand if someone uses a very heavy mineral strategy, then sends all the free gas to their ally. I can only imagine the ridiculous amount of tech you can get early in the game due to exploiting this.
Taxation is the obvious solution, as feeding is bad for team games. It can lead to situations where you have a large amount of high tech units that usually should not be available so early in the game.
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And as I said in pms, you're the stubborn idiot who can't accept that it's a legitimate strategy. It adds depth to the game, period.
Also, the extreme cases you posted (getting 17 mutas soon after the 5 minute mark) and the example provided here (saving your gas because you don't use it) are entirely different. One is cheese-esque, and the other is just being conservative.
If stupidity was met with bans, you wouldn't be here.
You see how easy it is to call people idiots without even acknowledging the fact that others' arguments are legitimate?
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On May 10 2010 08:40 Vexx wrote:
With feeding, you can have 6-8 cloaked banshees in your base by the time there are usually only 1 or 2. Replace banshees with 20 mutas, or 10 void rays.
LIAR!! NOOB! FRAUD!
And all those that responded here T.T
he's not srs. Or is he????
I think mistruths should be bannable.
Lying like this in your points is =(.
And noobs get trolled easily and so SC2 becomes =(.
Then it's all like =(.
=(. Get people to have an idea. Or it's all like =(
=( =( =(
He even used a [D] when it's bs! =(!
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Your argument revolves a lot about you not knowing this is happening.
Is scouting banned in 2v2? In this replay there is no feeding at all at 5 minutes, that's about the time the other Zerg starts mining his gas.
Keep in mind this is not W3, I don't know how much can you scout there without doing it with your entire army or windwalking Blademaster or some random drop Sentries (this is how Witch Doctor's spell is called right?) or single summoned units but I don't think you can do this as well as in SC2.
If you say this is imbalanced then you should be able to easily provide more replays TBH and I know someone wrote about proxy Void Rays and gave 4 replays of that.
BTW shouldn't feeder be weaker to take out? Isn't 2v2 all about finding weak points and attacking them together? Just scout them early enough?
edit: about your rep: I guess if someone doesn't have anything else than Roach Warren for something that requires gas but is still harvesting from 2 geysers you can tell he's going to feed.
He didn't even make Lair!
You can be passive or you can use that he's weaker to take him out before the other player really uses any fed resources right?
Also when your opponents are doing mostly zerglings why you don't mix in few Banelings even though you have more than enough resources for that?
Your macro sucked at the point you took down that hatch. All it took was to swarm top right Zerg's main as he refused to use resources he stockpiled.
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On May 11 2010 08:00 kidcrash wrote:
So are you saying 2v2 in SC:BW was too hard because you couldn't share resources?
No. Was I was doing was pointing out the flaw in the policy of "Anything that decreases skill necessary to play this game is horrible."
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they should remove the system completely
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I watched the replay, he gave him like 400 mins too make your mutas worthless it was good play but he had 17 mutas and you had 4 i looked at the replay carefully and he only gave him 400 mins and no gas so why do just assume that you woulda won and he was a noob, without the 400 he still woulda had more mutas and won so quit your whining, and by the way terrible BM
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i think there should be some easier way to send money. when i played 2x2 with enivid i had to go into the menu then click on the boxes then click send then click close each time i wanted to send. they should make it easier to send imo
overall i think its pretty gay that u can send minerals gas to each other, a nerf on it would be good imo ^^
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On May 11 2010 09:20 MIKE HUTN EASY wrote:
I watched the replay, he gave him like 400 mins too make your mutas worthless it was good play but he had 17 mutas and you had 4 i looked at the replay carefully and he only gave him 400 mins and no gas so why do just assume that you woulda won and he was a noob, without the 400 he still woulda had more mutas and won so quit your whining, and by the way terrible BM
Do you really think that 7 pages into the thread, no one but you would have noticed something like that? He gets 1000 gas, watch closely.
Sorry for the BM, someone must have forgotten to teach me to keep my opinion to myself. Someone hand me some sheep skin so I can join the herd and GG after every match.
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Pretty good strategy, I should try more of that.
It brings a lot of variety to the game, it's a pretty cool system.
Maybe feeding counters feeding? I shall try that.
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Sounds lame. I wouldn't mind if this were a viable strategy or a cheese build, but I don't want to be seeing it every 2v2. I don't want to be seeing it in one of every ten 2v2's.
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In random 2v2's if i'm terran with a zerg partner i will almost 100% of the time lift off and land at the gold mineral and feed minerals while 11 porting.
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On May 11 2010 09:40 Kratisto wrote:
Sounds lame. I wouldn't mind if this were a viable strategy or a cheese build, but I don't want to be seeing it every 2v2. I don't want to be seeing it in one of every ten 2v2's.
That's like saying you hate seeing 2 base plays every game rather than 1 base >.>
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EPT
