EPTTerran tourney wins? - Page 3
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yoshi_yoshi
United States440 Posts
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flagship33
5 Posts
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dNo_O
United States233 Posts
On May 09 2010 11:18 BigDates wrote: I think TvZ nearly guarentees a win for a T as long as he plays mech over MMM ATM, unless the Z gets broodlords, But, T can end it before 20 minutes in fairly easily. Protoss is definatly the strongest.. due to the "Volcano" strategy, which is unbeatable if he can get that high of macro (vortex, forcefield around vortex, let storms and/or collosus shoot inside (storms kills all the air units sucked in instantly), which destroys all army compositions. Actually, Marauders do more DPS even against Hydras, than hydras do back with stim, and with medivacs, they get healed super-fast, not to mention, you can get effectively more than a 1:1 ratio of the amount of marauders on 1 base vs a 1 base zerg (half gas cost, mineral cost not as relevent, seeing as Z will always be at a gas deficency while making mutas, as terran wont be) Not to mention they have the amor, and have over 1.5 X the amount of HP as a hydra. Not to mention, they hardcounter Ultras, and roaches just as well, which is why a zerg player would be crazy to get any ultralisks in their current state vs a T player. Terran can also constantly be pumping out SCV's all game risk-free, as zerg has to carefully decide to drone-up, or get units. In lategame, it makes zerg more powerful, but all early to mid game, zergs at the disadvantage even with a queen. However, this is why Terran stick to MMM, OR mech (Mech is unbeatable for Z at this point with some marauders mixed up if the T can make the right amount) and not both. Quick techswitch is the only way to win.. Zerg units are ALOT less cost effective than protoss, and terran ones, thats why pretty much all zerg players expand, unless doing 1base tech (which is either for mutas, or baneling busts) if this is true then why would you not use your second 25 energy on your queen for larvae injection and instead get a creep tumor? oh wait... that's right... as soon as you have your queen(s) out in "early to mid game" you have more larvae than you can possibly use . you don't have to decide about whether or not to drone up like you did in sc1 because you build spine crawlers... drones are THE solution unless you're going fast roach push or baneling bust which is an all-in anyways... i don't think you make more than 1 decision about drones vs units when you're all-in. it's pretty much 16 drones -> baneling all-in and you're pretty much screwed economically if you don't do enough damage... watch some of slush's games from earlier today :D edit: cleaned up with spoiler | ||
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xnub
Canada610 Posts
On May 09 2010 11:18 BigDates wrote: Actually, Marauders do more DPS even against Hydras, than hydras do back with stim, and with medivacs, they get healed super-fast, not to mention, you can get effectively more than a 1:1 ratio of the amount of marauders on 1 base vs a 1 base zerg (half gas cost, mineral cost not as relevent, seeing as Z will always be at a gas deficency while making mutas, as terran wont be) Not to mention they have the amor, and have over 1.5 X the amount of HP as a hydra. Not to mention, they hardcounter Ultras, and roaches just as well, which is why a zerg player would be crazy to get any ultralisks in their current state vs a T player. Not true hydras do more dps to marauders then they do to them Marauders do 10 dps stimmed 6.67 none stimmed the stim eats up 20 hp on marauders so 105 hp Hydra does 14.46 with 80 hp and shoots ALOT faster 1 on 1 stim hydra wins with 4 hp non stim 14 hp 10 on 10 both sides micro hydras win with 5 - 6 Not to mention unless you hits his econ bad 90 % of the time he will have a bigger hydra force then you will have Marauders ( unless its a early push before he techs to them but then most likly its marauders vs zerglings and that does not work out well hehe) do to the fact they can build them alot faster damn larva and queens rawr lol. But hey thats what zerg does build them quicker and in greater #'s. Useing marauders vs hydras is allways a bad idea thats why you see the pros switch to more marine heavy or go tanks when they come up to it. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
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Alou
United States3748 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
Just saying. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:02 bearbuddy wrote: Well... the game kinda is still in the Beta stage. Just saying. all the more reason whining about imbalances so we can root them out before release! ^_^V now before you claim 33% of the big tournaments should be won by terrans, you must first have data on the actual % of top players using terran, kind of like how there is fewer protoss pro's than zerg and terran in sc1 | ||
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RandomAccount#49059
United States2140 Posts
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
On May 09 2010 11:21 ghostnuke1234 wrote: I hope it gets to the point where they are winning 33% - that is a sign of balance at the top level. To be frank, I could care less about how well balanced the game is at the bottom and even mid level. If we want SC2 to succeed as an E-Sport, we want to see balanced gameplay at the top level. you wont get that until you get progamer houses/teams training 12 hours a day like in Korea.. when in SC's existence has there ever been 33% win percentage of any race outside of korea?? Or even inside korea for that matter! It goes in waves, the first 4-5 years were all Terrans, then 3 years of Savior, then 1 year of Protoss, then back to all zerg with Jaedong. tournament winnings doesnt have to be 33%. It comes down to the best players and at the moment, the "top-dog" of SC2 in america is clearly Nony, as he was in SC1. If Nony was terran, he'd still be winning every tournament. Race has nothing to do with winners right now. | ||
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AeonFlux
Ukraine101 Posts
Which is easily killed by zerglings, bandlings, muta, hydra? Which zerg unit cant kill marauder? Looks like any can. So if it is best unit what about other terran units? Terran is just underpowered, thats all. And medivacs so useless. Its not good old medic. To build medivac u need fucken starport, and 100/100 cost. But why do u ever build medivac when it has 13.5ps healing rate and banshee does 20dps? So medivac is unit with 13.5 dps (hps) and it cant use this dps on himself he needz infantry to be near it. Kinda stupid, isnt it? | ||
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KiLL_ORdeR
United States1518 Posts
The fact of the matter is that Terran has the potential to be the most powerful and versatile race in the game if you know how to use them, which nobody does because nobody has played enough games. right now zerg dominates the Asian servers because they are the race that is most like the way that they were in BW, and they fit the general Korean playstyle which is an ultra abusive early game, into an ultra abusive mid-game, into a heavily macro favored late game. Protoss is the second most used race because it is easy mode, and many players still 4-warp rush in every game, or VR rush on the US server. Terran is still the superior race, because they are the only race that can adequately deal with cheesey newbs and rush strats, as well as out macro you in the mid to late game. | ||
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ghostnuke1234
164 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:16 teekesselchen wrote: Razer Domination: DeMuslim ranked 2nd ZOTAC: Out of 9 ZOTAC-Cups, one has been won by a terran player (DeMuslim, 4th cup) Go4Sc2: Lucifron won monthly final in March, what I'ld actually call significant but it's quite some time ago x_x Really, Terran looks kinda bad on top level results. Verrrry bad  No surprise DeMuslim started switching to Protoss all the time, don't remember who he played against but he even switched to protoss to get a Protoss mirror ( - and won) Teekesselchen, I assume you are more familiar with the European tourneys? I can say for the US tourneys, Terran performance is simply disappointing. If what Teekesselchen is saying is true about the European tourneys, I really do think there is an underlying issue because Terran players aren't fairing any better at the US tourneys. | ||
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ghostnuke1234
164 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:28 yoshi_yoshi wrote: It sucks when a small change of events could bring down your whole argument. Like... have 2 of the final 4 in TODAY's TLI be T. FYI, I saw that tourney. Did you see the semi-finals, the finals, and the 3rd place match? Because if you did, you would know that Louder struggled against Slush, and even a half-awake Huk beat Louder. As for Cauthon, he played solid games against Slush and even the commentators admitted they didn't know what more Cauthon could do. | ||
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ghostnuke1234
164 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:33 flagship33 wrote: I think it's important in balance discussions to separate how easy a race is to learn with and how much potential they have at higher levels. For instance, I would argue that zerg is more difficult to learn at first and protoss is easier. Just because a race is more difficult to learn, such as zerg, does not mean that is not superior once you have mastered it, though. Yup, agree. This is a really important issue for Blizzard to consider because for SC2 to be a successful E-Sport, all 3 races should have potential at the higher levels. The performance of top Terran players at the tourneys is quite disappointing - it's easy to blame the players, but with the same trend for Euro tourneys as well as US, I think it's a much deeper issue. | ||
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ghostnuke1234
164 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:07 stormtemplar wrote: Cauthon luck has done quite well, yes he lost in HDH, But no way to say random is imbalanced. Don't forget that Cauthon beat another Terran - Kawaiirice, to advance to the second round where he then lost. | ||
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ghostnuke1234
164 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:10 Skyze wrote: It comes down to the best players and at the moment, the "top-dog" of SC2 in america is clearly Nony, as he was in SC1. If Nony was terran, he'd still be winning every tournament. Race has nothing to do with winners right now. You realize the performance of top Terran players is quite disappointing at alot of these tourneys where Nony isn't even participating in? The only SC2 tournament I've seen Nony participate in so far is the HDH tourney - and the last Terran, Cauthon, has already been knocked out of that tourney. | ||
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ghostnuke1234
164 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:26 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: we need a system to be put in place that says "I'm a newbie and don't know jack about Starcraft, or anything for that matter." in the beggining of posts and threads, when that is in fact the case. The fact of the matter is that Terran has the potential to be the most powerful and versatile race in the game if you know how to use them, which nobody does because nobody has played enough games. That's just insulting to players like Cauthon, QXC, LZGamer, Kawaiirice, and other top Terran players. | ||
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teekesselchen
Germany886 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:10 Skyze wrote: It comes down to the best players and at the moment, the "top-dog" of SC2 in america is clearly Nony, as he was in SC1. If Nony was terran, he'd still be winning every tournament. Race has nothing to do with winners right now. So you know that because... ? Take a proper view at DeMuslim. He plays terran. He is succesful. And he switches to protoss occasionally because he says T cannot win on P. Although it is not the race he played most, he still wins against other Terran or Protoss players using it but cannot win a tourney as Terran... | ||
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