EPTi guess nerfing the macro mechanics will allow players to play more macro oriented games simply because u cant pump out units from one base that easy/fast...sounds silly i know :D
Terran tourney wins? - Page 10
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Gont
Germany239 Posts
i guess nerfing the macro mechanics will allow players to play more macro oriented games simply because u cant pump out units from one base that easy/fast...sounds silly i know :D | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On May 11 2010 04:07 Kyo Yuy wrote: That's really my biggest issue with Terran right now. It seems that Terran has really strong harass but very weak macro potential. This is a complete reverse trend from Brood War, where Terran could macro sufficiently off less bases than the other races, and Terrans could opt for a defensive turtle + timing attack strategy. It's not really an issue of balance, at least in my case. It's more that, I'd rather see Terran have stronger macro capabilities instead of really efficient harass units that MUST be produced in order for Terran to gain an advantage. I am really curious if the macro of the three races is balanced. By that I mean, when all three races go for pure economy (T makes MULES and SCVs, Z pure drone, P Chrono Boost probes) do they end up on even footing after x minutes? I do not feel that I have efficient skill to pull of this experiment, but I think it's something someone should look into. If there is a huge disparity in resource collection among the 3 races in a pure macro race, then I would be very much concerned about that, more so than specific units or abilities... Well the better macroing capability would not be needed if Terrans could efficiently turtle, but due to the relatively high damage density of attacking infantry (the XXX balls) any defensive structure is bound to fall within seconds to a serious attack. If Blizzard added more defensive capability (thus ensuring that these structures would not have to be rebuilt) it would not be necessary to try and outmacro other races ... One thing I would throw into the think tank for discussion as well: "A MULE is not a benefit." The reason is simple: You can die too easily to cloaked units and the scan is an integral part of Terran strategies since BW. Getting Terran players to be addicted to MULEs obviously means there will be fewer Scans for scouting and detection. There have been many games where greed - and a few DTs - have killed the Terran. Thus you could argue that Terrans actually dont have a continuous macro ability ... | ||
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Usul
Germany150 Posts
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
And no, Im not saying im better than Morrow/demuslim with terran, but in my ~30ish games with terran, I was consistently beating 1800 people on US server by purely going one unit and just PLAYING SMART. And If you look at the REAL best terrans, They aren't bitching and moaning every patch, they are WINNING just playing terran. Im not talking about Demuslim, cause hes the idra of war3, im talking about real players like Lucifron and BRAT_OK, who win games regardless of what race they play, and are showing terran is just as strong as any other race. I just looked at the side thread menu, and altho I dont know who won; the last go4sc2 was BRAT_OK vs HasuObs.. I mean, Im not sure who won, but if terran sucks, wouldn't we NEVER see them in any tournament finals? Not to mention afew days ago, we had CauthonLuck in the finals and afew others I believe who were terran make the finals. I find it pathetic that the only basis for your "terran cant beat anything im not playing til a patch" retardedness is solely based on "server statistics" which show terran being played less, and then when two players known for being bm like Demuslim and Morrow complaining, which Morrow complained about Terran in BW also, so why does he have credibility? I havent followed Demuslim since he was in the whole SK.08 or whatever "rookie" team, but I know enough to know he talks more than he plays, and hes showing it lately. REAL terrans like Lucifron and Brat_OK are playing, not talking, and finding ways to dominate, so I see no issue with terran until those guys who are proven GM/insanely talented start talking, which I doubt they will because terran isnt "omg cant win a game so I wont play til patch" like you terrans in this thread are complaining about. Personally, if it wasnt for TvT I would still be playing terran; I just dont like TvT that much, but TvZ and TvP was not very rough at all, even this void ray shit I felt comfortable fighting, all it takes is scouting and knowing what to do to properly counter it. Why dont you try learning from your mistakes, trying new strategies to help you win games instead of coming on these threads and crying "wahhhh terran is so bad, zerg and protoss needs nerfing again". Its just so comical, Terran dominated BW for like 6+ years, and early SC2 you have your insane marauders + SCV rush that beat any protoss in 5 minutes flat, yet you still complain about being the weakest race. Unreal. | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
On May 11 2010 04:46 Skyze wrote: I am pretty positive before the concussive shells patch, I tested 4 marauder with stim vs 2 immortal, and the marauders won.. If it wasnt that, definitely 5 maruader wins vs 2 immortals. Whoever did the test, I dont see how its possible marauders would lose, and if they did, the immortal would have 2 hits left before dying. And no, Im not saying im better than Morrow/demuslim with terran, but in my ~30ish games with terran, I was consistently beating 1800 people on US server by purely going one unit and just PLAYING SMART. And If you look at the REAL best terrans, They aren't bitching and moaning every patch, they are WINNING just playing terran. Im not talking about Demuslim, cause hes the idra of war3, im talking about real players like Lucifron and BRAT_OK, who win games regardless of what race they play, and are showing terran is just as strong as any other race. I just looked at the side thread menu, and altho I dont know who won; the last go4sc2 was BRAT_OK vs HasuObs.. I mean, Im not sure who won, but if terran sucks, wouldn't we NEVER see them in any tournament finals? Not to mention afew days ago, we had CauthonLuck in the finals and afew others I believe who were terran make the finals. I find it pathetic that the only basis for your "terran cant beat anything im not playing til a patch" retardedness is solely based on "server statistics" which show terran being played less, and then when two players known for being bm like Demuslim and Morrow complaining, which Morrow complained about Terran in BW also, so why does he have credibility? I havent followed Demuslim since he was in the whole SK.08 or whatever "rookie" team, but I know enough to know he talks more than he plays, and hes showing it lately. REAL terrans like Lucifron and Brat_OK are playing, not talking, and finding ways to dominate, so I see no issue with terran until those guys who are proven GM/insanely talented start talking, which I doubt they will because terran isnt "omg cant win a game so I wont play til patch" like you terrans in this thread are complaining about. Personally, if it wasnt for TvT I would still be playing terran; I just dont like TvT that much, but TvZ and TvP was not very rough at all, even this void ray shit I felt comfortable fighting, all it takes is scouting and knowing what to do to properly counter it. Why dont you try learning from your mistakes, trying new strategies to help you win games instead of coming on these threads and crying "wahhhh terran is so bad, zerg and protoss needs nerfing again". Its just so comical, Terran dominated BW for like 6+ years, and early SC2 you have your insane marauders + SCV rush that beat any protoss in 5 minutes flat, yet you still complain about being the weakest race. Unreal. But...if terrans cant whine what the hell are they supposed to do? you dont expect us to actually PLAY AND IMPROVE??!? outrageous, you deserve a ban. Honestly though why would anyone even play terran if it didnt suddenly put them up on a shiny pedestal and give them the right to bitch and moan no matter what even if every patch so far has been fellating them over and over and over For some dumb reason the "I'm terran thus im superior even if i lose" bullshit artosis mentality stuck around from BW, its annoying as hell. | ||
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DeMusliM
United Kingdom401 Posts
As for you whining about the scv rush (that got nerfed within the week) and terran dominating BW (lol?) - sorry but making arguments about the past doesn't change anything in the present. As for beating people in platinum ladder on US ladders, CONGRATS, that obviously prooves balance because you managed to beat some guys with terran in some games that account to nothing. Not sure exactly why you've brought me into the equation all of a sudden - or brought up the fact i'm a wc3 idra? or SK08 guy - Unlike alot of people, i realise this is a beta - this isn't the tip of competitive play this is the test run of a ALMOST finished game which people seem to forget. If everybody sat with there heads down nothing would be addressed - while MorroW takes some of his complaints too far - i do look at the "situation/problem" from both sides but i deal with it. If you disagree, fine sure, i don't mind - but when in the top 8 of razer, i go 2-3 with terran, and 4-0 with protoss - even though i'm a bad protoss you know something needs tweaking - this was mainly down to me believing i had better chances with winning as protoss, nothing else - Which is backed up by the recent nerf to sentry damage as that's one of the main things i was abusing along with every other protoss - so yes something was changed, which means before it wasn't balanced. People need to stop forgetting this is a beta, if i have a problem vs X, and i ask people how they are dealing with it - the people doing X strategy saying "LOL NOOB DEAL WITH IT" really shouldn't take what i say as an insult, as in a new game not everything is gonna be clear, or right. I want the game to be as fair as possible - if people cope with some things better than i, then i want to hear about it - not remain silent still losing to it, i wanna hear how others handle my issues - if we are all stuck in the same boat, then that's how it is until someone/something figures out how to change that, or fix it. People who don't realise this such as yourself Skyze - are idiotic. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
whining and being bm r 2 different things. i always treat my opponents in ladder games with much respect and type out gg. just because u dont talk about balance doesnt mean u find it acceptable. im talking daily to many top players on EU and most seem to agree on the general parts and we all have opinions about balance, nobody simply says its balanced and says its all about practice atm if u think terran is so easy then sure its ok that u think so. but the general opinion is that ppl think terran is harder than toss is in tvp for many reasons. i think its more important that the game requires equally practice from both players to win tournaments rather than the races being actually balanced. when toss autodied vs terran in scv rushes i were one of the ppl complaining at the forum because i want gg's man i just dont wanna win. i picked t in sc1 because i thought it was hardest and biggest challange for me, thats why i play starcraft and not other games. if i played to win id go like demu or luci and play toss in tournaments (btw i would never with with toss in tournaments), its amazing how they manage to win with it. they must be talented but also it kind of convinces me that toss is that simple to play since patch 11 i havent been complaining alot because i want to play more games to see how it turns out before i make false assumptions. but im pretty sure i will have balance issues to complain about before patch 12  i think we need to have a better atmosphere in the sc2 section because whenever someones talks about balance its considered bm, whining or complaining. bullshit imo | ||
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ghostnuke1234
164 Posts
On May 11 2010 04:46 Skyze wrote: I am pretty positive before the concussive shells patch, I tested 4 marauder with stim vs 2 immortal, and the marauders won.. If it wasnt that, definitely 5 maruader wins vs 2 immortals. Whoever did the test, I dont see how its possible marauders would lose, and if they did, the immortal would have 2 hits left before dying. And no, Im not saying im better than Morrow/demuslim with terran, but in my ~30ish games with terran, I was consistently beating 1800 people on US server by purely going one unit and just PLAYING SMART. And If you look at the REAL best terrans, They aren't bitching and moaning every patch, they are WINNING just playing terran. Im not talking about Demuslim, cause hes the idra of war3, im talking about real players like Lucifron and BRAT_OK, who win games regardless of what race they play, and are showing terran is just as strong as any other race. Skyze, I don't know why you are so offensive against specific players, but can you be a bit PATIENT and let the other top Terran players respond? We have yet to hear from LZ, Cauthon, Kawaiirice, Louder, Lucrifon, Brat, etc. Give this thread some time and see what the other top Terran players say. Maybe they will even side with you. | ||
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lew
Belgium205 Posts
-without mines -with dragoons can blink now in your army -immortals -with shitmaps If this was the case in sc1 then tvp would be also impossible for T, no? | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
On May 11 2010 05:23 lew wrote: TvP in sc2 is like tvp in sc1, but -without mines -with dragoons can blink now in your army -immortals -with shitmaps If this was the case in sc1 then tvp would be also impossible for T, no? u might wanna add some stuff that terrans got new too? O_o | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
I find it pathetic that the only basis for your "terran cant beat anything im not playing til a patch" retardedness is solely based on "server statistics" which show terran being played less, and then when two players known for being bm like Demuslim and Morrow complaining, which Morrow complained about Terran in BW also, so why does he have credibility? I havent followed Demuslim since he was in the whole SK.08 or whatever "rookie" team, but I know enough to know he talks more than he plays, and hes showing it lately. REAL terrans like Lucifron and Brat_OK are playing, not talking, and finding ways to dominate, so I see no issue with terran until those guys who are proven GM/insanely talented start talking, which I doubt they will because terran isnt "omg cant win a game so I wont play til patch" like you terrans in this thread are complaining about. Can you stop bringing up Lucifron in this context? He played P vs Demuslim when they met in the Razer Domination semis. And Demu played P too. It's been pointed out to you MANY times now, I'm starting to feel like you are trolling. | ||
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ghostnuke1234
164 Posts
On May 11 2010 04:46 Skyze wrote: And no, Im not saying im better than Morrow/demuslim with terran, but in my ~30ish games with terran, I was consistently beating 1800 people on US server by purely going one unit and just PLAYING SMART. Also, I highly encourage you to enter some tourneys with Terran and prove the community wrong. While I am not a top player, I know it is a whole new different ballgame playing ladder and playing the tourneys - I am an avid follower of LZ's stream and I can tell you LZ dominates ladder with Terran but it's much different at the tourneys. | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
So what if you can play terran to 1800? There are a lot of people (random players) that can play all races at a very high level. That proves NOTHING. The mechanics of the races are similar enough that one can pick up a new race fairly quickly, but mastering it so that you can play it at tourney level is different. | ||
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ghostnuke1234
164 Posts
On May 11 2010 05:56 shinosai wrote: The mechanics of the races are similar enough that one can pick up a new race fairly quickly, but mastering it so that you can play it at tourney level is different. ^^^ QFT This thread is about top Terran player performance at tourneys, not second tier "ladder" Terran player performance. | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
Why: -Zerg will always be ahead on base count and upgrades -Infestor/hydra/roach is superior to any bio combo you can build, including bio/mech -Because of infestors, late game tvz cannot be won, period, unless the zerg player is bad... | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
TL;DR Problem in chair not in computer. | ||
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Nosferatos
Norway783 Posts
Still shouldn't be to hard to counter really, just make some ghosts and emp/snipe feast them ;P What really gets to me in TvZ is banlings, they simply melt marines and makes them a total waste too build, Hellions could be the counter with better micro tho, it's just kinda hard atm ;( | ||
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DeMusliM
United Kingdom401 Posts
On May 11 2010 06:17 Nosferatos wrote: ^^* Oh man, NP is giving me nightmares when I sleep. *No don't NP my cute Raven* Still shouldn't be to hard to counter really, just make some ghosts and emp/snipe feast them ;P What really gets to me in TvZ is banlings, they simply melt marines and makes them a total waste too build, Hellions could be the counter with better micro tho, it's just kinda hard atm ;( Fungal growth + banelings rape hellions, as banelings aren't light - and hellions are. Only way to tank them is with marauders really. | ||
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Nosferatos
Norway783 Posts
+3 Hellions with flame upgrade one shots banelings. But I feel two or more +0 H is better as they get more splash at the B ball; making more rather than geting upgrades, seeing that zerg can counter upgrade armor. | ||
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
btw best way to deal with blings are tanks imo | ||
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