EPTSpore Colonies are what you need to stick to in order to combat Phoenix harassment as Zerg while building up Hydralisk numbers. If you are going to keep air, you need to support them with Hydra.
Patch 11-Phoenix:Did Blizz Fix Anything? - Page 21
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Ayestes
United States106 Posts
Spore Colonies are what you need to stick to in order to combat Phoenix harassment as Zerg while building up Hydralisk numbers. If you are going to keep air, you need to support them with Hydra. | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
On May 07 2010 11:55 Raislin wrote: No, Brawl was never intended by Sakurai to be competitive. He did everything he could to prevent it from being competitive and he did a damn good job. So what you say is definitely true. @beetlelisk: Phoenix are faster, but due to the fact that they used to decelerate before attacking, kiting didn't really work out all that well. One range just wasn't enough with the game mechanics the way they are. Being able to literally move while shooting is extremely powerful and, as I said in the post you quoted (and supported a bit by diehilde's post), Phoenix could potentially use a damage nerf now, as they got their much needed buff...just in a somewhat funky way. I know they didn't work and what I'm saying is to make this kind of micro work and not necessarily in the exact way (flyers not slowing down at all with perfect micro) it works in BW - even if the way moving shot works in BW is not copied it can still be implemented and work in similar way with slowing down noticeable. Phoenixes are faster so it's not such a big deal, maybe they would fire (a bit) slower while kiting. To use a slightly childish, yet relevant counterpoint to both of you: Zealots can be kited by Marines, Marauders, Reapers, Roaches, etc, etc and, at best, Charge simply prevents you from taking zero damage in the process. Does that mean it makes no sense not to build Zealots and/or research Charge? Keep in mind that I don't necessarily disagree completely, but that I'm much too hesitant to call any imbalance, especially this early. You need to make up to 2 orders for each shot to do that, with Phoenix you make any only when you want to change direction they are going to. Also when you surround with your Zealots, enemy units can't just walk past them. | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
On May 08 2010 04:02 Ayestes wrote: Corruptors only counter Phoenix if they force a head to head confrontation. Hard to do when they are so much slower then them. Hydralisks or Mutalisks are sadly the best counter, and Mutalisks get slaughtered and Hydralisks need to be in ample numbers to prevent being control via lift. Protoss doesn't need to kill Corruptors, Zerg needs to kill the Phoenix. Corrupters are the same speed as mutas now. So they are clearly the better option. | ||
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
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v3chr0
United States856 Posts
On May 08 2010 10:03 Angra wrote: sweet now I can phoenix harass by right clicking once on the minimap while afking to get food! and you'd come back to a loss. | ||
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v3chr0
United States856 Posts
"Oh man I watched that video on youtubes where the 3 pheonixes kill 4/5 mutalisks that are terribly micro'd, they are so OP" | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
On May 08 2010 10:10 v3chr0 wrote: So much bitching, bet half of you haven't even played with or versus the phoenix yet. "Oh man I watched that video on youtubes where the 3 pheonixes kill 4/5 mutalisks that are terribly micro'd, they are so OP" Have you played? Preferably both as Zerg and Protoss? Putting aside you not reading even part of OP. | ||
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v3chr0
United States856 Posts
Have you played? Preferably both as Zerg and Protoss? Putting aside you not reading even part of OP. I actually did read the O.P, and yes I play random quite a bit. To say anything, 1 or 2 days after the patch is non-sense, it's a new patch, strategies will have to change. If in about a week or two Zerg still has a huge problem, then it's a concern. | ||
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Stopdroproll
United States101 Posts
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
On May 08 2010 10:45 v3chr0 wrote: I actually did read the O.P, and yes I play random quite a bit. To say anything, 1 or 2 days after the patch is non-sense, it's a new patch, strategies will have to change. If in about a week or two Zerg still has a huge problem, then it's a concern. I guessed you did not read it because OP istelf says in bold it's not about balance really but about some micro possibilities out. If, on this page, DeCoup says Corruptors are as fast as Mutas than it's not that hard to counter Phoenix so there may be no huge problems. Except there is going to be less micro which this thread is about man edit even though it makes Phoenixes in PvZ a lot more viable. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
ZvP is hydraroach. You can come up with all the blah blah you want, say it'll be different in a few weeks, I say BS. Z air vP is now terrible. Gonna need to duke it out in those forcefields... edit: and tbh, Phoenix is now pretty much ultraballer in PvZ, even against hydras if they're not in large groups. | ||
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IndecisivePenguin
United States771 Posts
The change is fine so far, I haven't played any games PvZ where I can say I won specifically because of Phoenix attack/harass. | ||
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Ayestes
United States106 Posts
On May 08 2010 09:51 DeCoup wrote: Corrupters are the same speed as mutas now. So they are clearly the better option. No, they don't. 2.95 vs. 3.75. They still can't keep up with Mutalisk swarms, especially if you use them to try and help anti-harass from Phoenix. You need a ground presence starting with Spore Colonies. Small numbers of Hydralisks and Queens will simply be lifted and dismantled. Irregardless, I don't consider Mutalisks a good counter to Phoenix by any means. However in terms of anti-harassment their speed makes them better then Corruptors stopping them, which is disappointing. The speed buff helps them out speed Vikings- not catch Phoenix or keep up with Mutalisk swarms. The overall point is, the role of a Corruptor has not changed against Protoss. It counters Collosus and the trio of Massive Air units. It has gained a little ground against the Viking, but the range on the Viking causes it to win in most cases and it is midly cheaper. To stop any Phoenix harassment, you need Spore Colonies into moderate numbers of Hydralisks. A Fungal Growth would work as well, if you manage to pull it off. | ||
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v3chr0
United States856 Posts
On May 08 2010 11:05 beetlelisk wrote: I guessed you did not read it because OP istelf says in bold it's not about balance really but about some micro possibilities out. If, on this page, DeCoup says Corruptors are as fast as Mutas than it's not that hard to counter Phoenix so there may be no huge problems. Except there is going to be less micro which this thread is about man edit even though it makes Phoenixes in PvZ a lot more viable. Sorry I did not clarify, I'm not really talking about the OP, talking to all the people who are going crazy already because of the change, I for one think something will definitely be changed because I think they got may have gotten the wrong idea of what moving shot was, albeit it is something way out of the ordinary in the starcraft genre so it'd be interesting either way. | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
EDIT: Also, I doubt that blizzard misunderstood what people meant by moving shot. More likely they just thought that giving the phoenix its moving shot would be a cool addition to the game, and perhaps the idea was inspired by people talking about "moving shot." | ||
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
If good P's want to help, please do abuse the phoenix as much as you can so we can get this over with. | ||
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Sensator
Australia377 Posts
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CheeC[h]
United States137 Posts
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pheus
Australia161 Posts
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