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The reason platinum is so horrible (or rather the overall skill level) is because of the demographic playing the beta right now. 90% of the people playing the beta now will probably play UMS and single player only anyways. Imagine if the bottom 90% in the beta were gone. Suddenly the top 1% becomes the top 10% or something and you have a much more elite top tier.
I'd like to see the league equivalent skills be something like this:
Copper = total noobs to rts
Bronze = total noobs who have beaten single player
Silver = e/d- level noobs
Gold = d/d+ level players
Platinum = c- and higher players
Pro = b and higher players
That seems like it'd be a sensible system. The skill gap between players at the top tier will take a long time to grow. I don't think we'll even have these differences between b and a level players at all for a long time.
I also feel like it makes sense that anyone with solid fundamentals and decent knowledge of BOs can be platinum. However the low plat players will be ones who have very 1-dimensional games (c- players who got there by doing allins). Right now I think even mid and reasonably high plat players are those bad c- allin players.
My two cents anyhow.
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On April 30 2010 05:29 j4vz wrote:
5/5 win people should be placed in platinum but blizz should add a diamond league, you shouldnt be able to get in that diamond league with 100% win in placement match, you should be able to get in the diamond league only from the platinum league first...
its an idea plz dont hate...
diamond is for smashing on mortal kombat 1. they already decided there'd be a 'pro league' for placement above platinum.
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On April 30 2010 16:31 Floophead_III wrote:
The reason platinum is so horrible (or rather the overall skill level) is because of the demographic playing the beta right now. 90% of the people playing the beta now will probably play UMS and single player only anyways. Imagine if the bottom 90% in the beta were gone. Suddenly the top 1% becomes the top 10% or something and you have a much more elite top tier.
Without any stats to back it up you're just spewing bs, logic dictates that the people who have gone out of their way to get the multiplayer beta are generally more interested in competitive RTS and should be better players.
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Another problem with divisions is that you don't know who's winning. Sure you could compare the elo ratings but you really shouldn't have to. Just make it a pyramid with one divison at the top. Sadly I don't think it'll happen.
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It definitely needs more leagues. In ICCUP there are 12 different ranks, and even though it practically ignores the skill levels of more than 90% of stacraft players, which would all have D-, despite having wildly different skill levels(i.e. you could have a D- having 100% win rate against lower D- players, if everyone played on ICCUP), and still there's a huge difference between A and A- or D and D+
In SC2 there are several leagues for what would be D- players and the total is just 5 differnet leagues... obviously there would be a huge difference between low plat compared to a top plat, just like between top and low golds.
There needs to be a huge amount of leagues, in order to have players with similar skill levels in each, just adding a diamond league will not change things at all, you will have to come up with at least 20 different league names and that may not even be enough considering player skill variance is huge and it will probably increase over time.
That's why I was suggesting making the league number matter. Platinum 1 should be strictly better than platinum 100, but they also shouldn't be strictly better than platinum 2 or the skill variance would be way too small, i.e. one win would launch you from last to first in your plat division and players would have to change division every game to match their current skill rating.
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Not sure if this was posted yet.
"In the future, there will be a "Pro League" composed of the top players in the ladder. Players will be invited to the "Pro League" using the same methods that determine current promotions between leagues. This league will not be divided by divisions and will have a set number of participants each ladder season. For the best players, this will be where they can see exactly how they compare to the other top competitors." - Blizzard poster
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=24401857779&pageNo=1&sid=5000#7
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I like the idea of a pyramid setup for the leagues. I don't think that's implemented now - if it was, there would be better players in platinum, and this is just not the case at all.
The demographic bit is flawed because people who sign up for the sc2 beta are inherently more interested in the game than the average noob; and 90 percent is an exaggerated number to begin with. I think the real issue is an overwhelming majority of people suck at starcraft, especially in the united states.
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On April 30 2010 02:14 Roniii wrote:
Unobtainium league FTW
Probably the best suggestion I've ever read.
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On April 30 2010 04:42 Polemarch wrote:Yes, here's the problem: ![[image loading]](http://i44.tinypic.com/e96lud.png) (Not to scale, obviously) This wide skill gap reduces the feeling of competitiveness within the platinum divisions. The league distribution should keep the skill gap within each division roughly the same; this can be done with a more pyramidal shape. Edit: This is a problem with their system, not just the fact that it's beta. The player pool will grow and people will get better over time, but the same general skill distribution will remain, unless we start hitting skill ceilings, which would be horrible. (SC1 essentially has an infinite skill ceiling.)
I don't think your graph is accurate.
A bad copper player could never win against an average bronze player, yet the skill difference in your graph is only marginal. A good gold player could easily beat an average platin player, but your graph shows a pretty big skill difference. I think the biggest skill differences are both in copper and in platinum level, because in those leagues you'll find the absolut best and absolut worst players.
It should more look like that:
![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/i3e6i1.jpg)
As already mentioned there will be a Pro League for the best anyway.
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My only real problem with this system is that everyone is in this tiny random group of people and it's hard to see how you are doing overall. Why not just rank everyone on the same ladder in a straight-forward manner? If you want to prevent bad players from playing good players, fine keep the leagues. But at least withing the league, have an easy way of telling how you're actually doing.
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The pro league is nice but there still needs to be another league above plat and below the pro league. Maybe diamond league? The skill range of plat right now is super wide compared to any other league it seems like.
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the real platinums are the 1400-1500+ players imho and especially with over 60 % win ratio
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Sc2 is a bit more like wc3 in that you can win more games through cheese. It makes the metagame more interesting and rewards guts/gambles. Wc3 pros lost all the time to no name players. Being able to go on the forums and say "look I beat grubby with tier 1 firelord tower!" is good for the game imo. People who don't have all day to practice will still be motivated to play.
They should still allow normal players to play against the pro league, you'd see them win at a decent rate.
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On April 30 2010 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i think it would be better if they just made so fewer ppl got to be plat rather than adding a new rank
Since there's a good difference between copper and bronze and bronze and silver etc. I really disagree with that.
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I'm really glad that bad players can find good and even games but the problem is that within the platinum league it's one of the biggest skill differences I have ever seen. Low platinum you can play with your mouse only doing retarded shit and still win. Then if you jump up to 1600 points you suddenly play with the top % and it becomes very difficult. I really think it needs to be more like a pyramid. Like iccup not many % played from B- and up but there was a VERY distinct difference between each rank up there same as it was on the lower ones. Right now platinum kinda covers everyone decent and upwards and it's simply doesn't work.
The division crap should be removed in platinum too once the game is released everyone in platinum could care less about being no1 in a division with no good players, it's so uneeven right now between different divisions some have great competition and others only have like 1-3 good players. Or you could make it so that the divisions are stacked in platinum instead of being the same.
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I've been ranked from bronze to platinum over various resets. Whether there needs to be a rhodium league or whatever can't really be determined by the beta population. I get matched against players up to gold from bronze and down to silver from plat, and the quality of the games are rarely determined by the league of my opponent. I think, as has been said, once the release happens and we have an actual player base, the leagues will make more sense and have a better distribution. Of course if it doesn't, then there should be something to fix it up.
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While I'm reasonably new to competative play myself, I thought I'd just add my sentiment here.
I recently qualified for silver, I started the beta as copper, got to bronze the reset after. I know this makes me a skillless newbie, and yeah thats completely true. However the way I got into silver troubled me a bit. The first 3 matches I played against people who thought a hand full of marines/zerglings/zealots were an awesome attack force around 8 minutes in. The 4th game my opponent tossed (more on this later) and the 5th game was over before it started, atleast for me.
On the 4th game I checked up the player that "had to leave" around 30 seconds into the game. As it turned out the 3 matches before me after the latest reset he lost aswell. All 3 of them under 30 seconds. Now thinking this was just a fluke I went into that 5th game and I started as Favored. Awesome I thought. Up untill I got my ass bunker rushed like the newbie I am and lost within 5 minutes. Which was kind of odd. I checked up this player and he had lost his first 5 placement matches within 30 seconds aswell and then began a winning streak against copper/bronze players. Then it dawned on me... Achievement whores. Owh yeah I got placed into silver while I probably should have been bronze because of achievement whores.
Personally I found it sad that a former plat player would go the lenght of getting achievements by boosting "new" players to higher ranks first, then demolishing them for points after the placements. So I hope they put a far bigger minimum game cap on when one can even start getting achievements.
On the other side of the court (you plat's out there) A common complaint is that the leagues are too similar in size. However also think about it this way, what if plat was really just the top 2-5%? Would you be willing to wait ages to even get an equal level matchup? Or would faster games just be better even if you face off against a lower ranked platinum player? Ofcourse I realise that the league placement should be a reflection of your skill and you feel that lesser players in the same league diminishes your percieved skill. But as others have pointed out; once it goes live and a huge amount of "real" plat players enter the scene all the bad plat's will be pushed down to gold, all the bad golds go to silver, and I get to try my hand again in bronze or copper ;-).
As Day[9] would say:
Think about it!
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On April 30 2010 19:37 PainBall wrote:
the real platinums are the 1400-1500+ players imho and especially with over 60 % win ratio
I think my division has one person over 1400, maybe two; nobody is over 1500.
The problem with pulling numbers out of your ass is they're never useful.
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Am I the only one who is getting a somewhat sad vibe that people on here need to feel like they're worth something? Does it really matter if someone who you can beat 8 times out of 10 is in the same league as you? Do you really need the ability to say "I'm in ____ league!" to validate yourself?
Just play the game, get better, have fun, and win. Who the hell cares what league you're in?
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EPT
