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On April 30 2010 11:40 Fontong wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2010 11:29 ymirheim wrote:On April 30 2010 10:44 Fontong wrote:
The higher numbered platinum divisions are so easy. A D- player in SC1 is fully capable of getting into them. I got my beta key two days ago and went 10-0 in 1v1 and 2v2 placement matches with zero experience, and got placed in platinum in division 86 or something ridiculous like that. The people I'm playing are just bad.
They just need a division above plat, or only place people in gold if they go 5-0, then let them fight their way into plat.
Edit: Main problem is probably that the ladder should be a pyramid shape (way more copper divisions than platinum). That way it would automatically be tough to get there. Adding another layer of the ladder is not going to pull better players out of a hat. I think most people are missing the point here. It is not a lot of "bad" players in platinum because the ladder system is broken, its because there are not enough "good" players yet in the beta. Again comparing to sc/bw ladders with people with 10+ years experience to people with 10 weeks experience is kind of futile. I would suggest that someone screenshot this thread because in 10 years we are going to have a good laugh about how people thought platinum was easy back in the day. And you missed the point of my edit. I know there is a limited amount of good players. Why do you think I posted that the divisions should be in a pyramid? So that the betters players at the top are more concentrated because there are less platinum divisions, and thus the level of skill required to get in one will be far higher.
No that was exactly my point, the system right now IS a pyramid afaik. Atleast I was under the impression that platinum was a much smaller percentage of the total number of players than gold and silver is.
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i think it will turn out fine on realease because if people get a lucky streak into platinum they will just be pushed down after a certain number of games and the leagues will balance out after 100 ish games from the player
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How about this:
A "elite" tier ladder, only accesseable by people in platnium who have consistently won. This would run concurrently to the normal ladder, and would allow very high ranking players to guage their strength among themselves.
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How about this:
A "hardcore" ladder, if you lose, you get reset back to copper.
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I just wish there was a way to filter rank when you make a game like how sc1 iccup was. HOnestly I had more trouble in platinum than I did in bronze. When I first got the game, I played like 3 good players in placement, then recently with the reset, I got 5 noobs and ranked 27 plat just like that.
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On April 30 2010 13:36 nexusil wrote:
How about this:
A "hardcore" ladder, if you lose, you get reset back to copper.
I like the way you think.
An eternal KING OF THE HILL, with one man on top...
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Well, If you cheese your way to platinum division and do not stand a chance to play a standart game, this is how it goes. If you aren't any good at normal play, atleast you should be good at cheese. If you're not, then there is nothing left to say.
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How about seasons, where you all start off at a basic rank (lets call it D) and then progressively move up the more games you win, you get points for winning and as you increase in ranks you lose more points every loss so it becomes harder to obtain the higher ranks.
Iccup FTW.. wish blizzard would implement a system that clearly works.
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Haven't read all the replies but I read some and I like the idea of the top league (whether it's platinum or another level) being one that you can't get into from your placement matches. You have to earn it by doing well in the 2nd to top league.
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^That is essentially what the pro league will be.
I think it's more likely the people at TL are just at the top of the ladder. When it comes to forming a new league type for across the board placement, the deciding factor is how many people are available for the new league. IMO it's not enough to justify a new league type. Plus there's no real downside to the current system - you're still matched with other top players. As for this "special league you have to earn your way into"..... uhmm.. yeah, it's called pro league.
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there are 4 leagues, so platinum could be just top 25%, that's still a lot of players
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Ranking is serious buisness?
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Canada8036 Posts
On April 30 2010 13:49 XeliN wrote:
How about seasons, where you all start off at a basic rank (lets call it D) and then progressively move up the more games you win, you get points for winning and as you increase in ranks you lose more points every loss so it becomes harder to obtain the higher ranks.
Iccup FTW.. wish blizzard would implement a system that clearly works.
This is how also how ELO works. If you play someone better than you, you get more points for a win and lose less for a loss. If you play someone worse than you, you get less points for a win and lose more for a loss. The difference between Blizzard's system and iccup lies in the algorithm used as well as where the cutoff is for each league.
Really, the perceived problem could probably be solved just by raising the ELO cutoff for platinum. This would essentially raise the average skill level of platinum players.
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On April 30 2010 02:06 HelloSon wrote:
They should have a league above plat that you DON'T get placed in; you have to earn the right to get in. That way people can't just be placed in this league with a bunch of easy placement matches.
i hope this system will be gone the same time as the beta, and they use something like iccup
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On April 30 2010 12:51 ymirheim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2010 11:40 Fontong wrote:On April 30 2010 11:29 ymirheim wrote:On April 30 2010 10:44 Fontong wrote:
The higher numbered platinum divisions are so easy. A D- player in SC1 is fully capable of getting into them. I got my beta key two days ago and went 10-0 in 1v1 and 2v2 placement matches with zero experience, and got placed in platinum in division 86 or something ridiculous like that. The people I'm playing are just bad.
They just need a division above plat, or only place people in gold if they go 5-0, then let them fight their way into plat.
Edit: Main problem is probably that the ladder should be a pyramid shape (way more copper divisions than platinum). That way it would automatically be tough to get there. Adding another layer of the ladder is not going to pull better players out of a hat. I think most people are missing the point here. It is not a lot of "bad" players in platinum because the ladder system is broken, its because there are not enough "good" players yet in the beta. Again comparing to sc/bw ladders with people with 10+ years experience to people with 10 weeks experience is kind of futile. I would suggest that someone screenshot this thread because in 10 years we are going to have a good laugh about how people thought platinum was easy back in the day. And you missed the point of my edit. I know there is a limited amount of good players. Why do you think I posted that the divisions should be in a pyramid? So that the betters players at the top are more concentrated because there are less platinum divisions, and thus the level of skill required to get in one will be far higher. No that was exactly my point, the system right now IS a pyramid afaik. Atleast I was under the impression that platinum was a much smaller percentage of the total number of players than gold and silver is.
Oh really? Is there a link where Blizz says that? Not that I don't believe you or anything, I'm just interested to see what the stats are like if they exist.
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imo, they shouldn't have platinum (or metal-coding) at all. Just have everyone on a straight, no-frills Elo-like rating system. You should know exactly how good someone is by their rating, and that's all you ever need to know.
If it's good enough for chess, it's good enough for SC2.
edit: p.s., Elo is a name, it isn't an acronym. just fyi.
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On April 30 2010 15:01 oolon wrote:
imo, they shouldn't have platinum (or metal-coding) at all. Just have everyone on a straight, no-frills Elo-like rating system. You should know exactly how good someone is by their rating, and that's all you ever need to know.
If it's good enough for chess, it's good enough for SC2.
edit: p.s., Elo is a name, it isn't an acronym. just fyi.
I agree the ratings should be consistent across divisions. You could still have division names though, they would just correspond to rating ranges (The same way that chess has masters, experts, class A, etc.) But it would be nice to see someone's exact elo before a match. Just having something saying "slightly favored" is annoying.
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On April 30 2010 02:39 jstar wrote:Depends on the general SC population. A top 0.5% in WoW for example, simply means you're not retarded. But I do agree the skill variation from bottom plat to top plat is probably bigger than copper to gold.
this. remember folks, top 0.5% only means you're better than 199 out of 200 people. that's not that great considering how many noobs there are at starcraft. if i was only top 0.5% at any game i would never let anyone know about it. it'd be embarrassing 
top 5% for platinum is just way too much.
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On April 30 2010 15:01 oolon wrote:
imo, they shouldn't have platinum (or metal-coding) at all. Just have everyone on a straight, no-frills Elo-like rating system. You should know exactly how good someone is by their rating, and that's all you ever need to know.
If it's good enough for chess, it's good enough for SC2.
edit: p.s., Elo is a name, it isn't an acronym. just fyi.
It's also annoying to have every other word bleeped out with this new battle.net 2.0 made to satisfy the parents of 12 year-olds. Somewhere along the line Blizzard forgot who mattered. It's ridiculous how much you type is turned into $@#(!.
The metal coding system is in the bag of stuff that's there to be new or hip or better when it actually rolls back the clocks on a lot of what was genuinely good.
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On April 30 2010 04:42 Polemarch wrote:Yes, here's the problem: ![[image loading]](http://i44.tinypic.com/e96lud.png) (Not to scale, obviously) This wide skill gap reduces the feeling of competitiveness within the platinum divisions. The league distribution should keep the skill gap within each division roughly the same; this can be done with a more pyramidal shape. Edit: This is a problem with their system, not just the fact that it's beta. The player pool will grow and people will get better over time, but the same general skill distribution will remain, unless we start hitting skill ceilings, which would be horrible. (SC1 essentially has an infinite skill ceiling.)
this is exactly why the leagues should be pyramid'd (coined!).
great graph btw. it's hard for people to see this in their heads.
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EPT
