the site loads kinda slow for me [ at least here at work] so ill paste quoted it here
[quote=|# [user=1]Spartan[nK][/user]|]Yes, folks, fastest money maps are definitely possible on the SC2 engine and through the editor.
First, before we get started, let me say that I personally would not play fastest maps on SC2 because it ruins the core game ideals. Furthermore, the game itself is already incredibly fast-paced; playing normal maps on SC instead of SC2 feels like the stone age all over again.
Second, VG will no doubt continue to support our fastest map league, VGT, with the launch of SC2. We will continue to be at the forefront of that fastest maps community and deliver as much as we can, as long as there is a high demand for the fastest maps and league by players. So expect VGT to bleed over into the SC2 realm upon immediate launch of the game this summer. This, however, means that VGT will no longer be open for SC (again, assuming the SC2 scene is popular).
Anyhow, without further adieu, here are some videos to whet your appetite..
[/quote]
obv im sure tl feels bad about this, but i wouldnt be surprised if when sc2 launches that already a large chunk of players are starting off on fastest instead of the real maps. this really disappoints me, but really what can we do? today when i log on b.net and look for games on sc1 half the game list is fastest maps any one have ideas on how we can prevent this from happening more frequently??
I don't mind people playing on fastest, personally. It's their choice - as long as they are getting enjoyment out of the game I'm happy with that. As long as they don't take a holier than thou approach to the rest of the world (and visa versa for that matter) then we should be able to live in harmony and celebrate a great game.
On April 26 2010 16:14 Plexa wrote: I don't mind people playing on fastest, personally. It's their choice - as long as they are getting enjoyment out of the game I'm happy with that. As long as they don't take a holier than thou approach to the rest of the world (and visa versa for that matter) then we should be able to live in harmony and celebrate a great game.
I just hate fastest players who insist that it takes just as much, if not more skill than non money maps. Logic doesn't reach them, so don't bother arguing when the time comes people.
I'm not gonna lie, I learned how to speed through production facilities thanks to Fastest, but I always (even before I knew about the pro scene) hated money maps like it. It's just that's what the common player plays. I guess they're fun if I want to dick around, but otherwise, I facepalm when people say it takes as much skill, even though all the macro is gone.
But I doubt you're going to prevent it. I mean, if anything, it would be reduced if the Korean pro scene was more apparent to all of Bnet users, but even then, it will probably always exist because there will be that player who hates economy in their RTS, even a game built around it.
Just be glad it won't be in the ladder (hopefully). Although, it would be funny if they had a high-money ladder.
Yeah I don't mind fast map but players who refuse to see the skill in pro maps (irony?) and insist they're playing the better part of StarCraft really shit me
i started sc1 with fastmaps and it was good to learn how units work against each other and which building builds which unit and hotkeys etc. all in all it needs very to no skill, but with the storm nerf it could be funny to play drunken on that map.
On April 26 2010 16:14 Plexa wrote: I don't mind people playing on fastest, personally. It's their choice - as long as they are getting enjoyment out of the game I'm happy with that. As long as they don't take a holier than thou approach to the rest of the world (and visa versa for that matter) then we should be able to live in harmony and celebrate a great game.
i hate fastest maps because it takes away players who might otherwise become good non-money map players if they didnt join the world of fastest. of course, some people might not play at all if it werent for fastest and there are probably plenty of sc players in the world already (but never enough).
it's just hard to get a decent game going because some people (RL folks, esp in a dorm) only play fastest and i have to go through a lot of trouble just to teach them to try non-money maps. in the end, they give up and go back to their world of fastest, and we lose out on a nice LAN competition
I tried a fastest map in the map editor just the get the feel of how fast it feels in sc2 and let me just say zerg feels like they are going to be waaay overpowered. Like to the point where the other races will not have a chance after the 6 minute mark.
On April 26 2010 16:28 kidcrash wrote: I tried a fastest map in the map editor just the get the feel of how fast it feels in sc2 and let me just say zerg feels like they are going to be waaay overpowered. Like to the point where the other races will not have a chance after the 6 minute mark.
On April 26 2010 16:19 RageOverdose wrote: I'm not gonna lie, I learned how to speed through production facilities thanks to Fastest, but I always (even before I knew about the pro scene) hated money maps like it. It's just that's what the common player plays. I guess they're fun if I want to dick around, but otherwise, I facepalm when people say it takes as much skill, even though all the macro is gone.
But I doubt you're going to prevent it. I mean, if anything, it would be reduced if the Korean pro scene was more apparent to all of Bnet users, but even then, it will probably always exist because there will be that player who hates economy in their RTS, even a game built around it.
Just be glad it won't be in the ladder (hopefully). Although, it would be funny if they had a high-money ladder.
You are so right, I hate when those plebs try and play my game the wrong way. Why don't they understand that they are doing it wrong? They should ban people from playing this game that aren't atleast B on iccup, I am so sick of these commoners crashing my beta server.
On April 26 2010 16:19 RageOverdose wrote: I'm not gonna lie, I learned how to speed through production facilities thanks to Fastest, but I always (even before I knew about the pro scene) hated money maps like it. It's just that's what the common player plays. I guess they're fun if I want to dick around, but otherwise, I facepalm when people say it takes as much skill, even though all the macro is gone.
But I doubt you're going to prevent it. I mean, if anything, it would be reduced if the Korean pro scene was more apparent to all of Bnet users, but even then, it will probably always exist because there will be that player who hates economy in their RTS, even a game built around it.
Just be glad it won't be in the ladder (hopefully). Although, it would be funny if they had a high-money ladder.
You are so right, I hate when those plebs try and play my game the wrong way. Why don't they understand that they are doing it wrong? They should ban people from playing this game that aren't atleast B on iccup, I am so sick of these commoners crashing my beta server.
On April 26 2010 16:19 RageOverdose wrote: I'm not gonna lie, I learned how to speed through production facilities thanks to Fastest, but I always (even before I knew about the pro scene) hated money maps like it. It's just that's what the common player plays. I guess they're fun if I want to dick around, but otherwise, I facepalm when people say it takes as much skill, even though all the macro is gone.
But I doubt you're going to prevent it. I mean, if anything, it would be reduced if the Korean pro scene was more apparent to all of Bnet users, but even then, it will probably always exist because there will be that player who hates economy in their RTS, even a game built around it.
Just be glad it won't be in the ladder (hopefully). Although, it would be funny if they had a high-money ladder.
You are so right, I hate when those plebs try and play my game the wrong way. Why don't they understand that they are doing it wrong? They should ban people from playing this game that aren't atleast B on iccup, I am so sick of these commoners crashing my beta server.
Did I really come off as an elitist prick?
I didn't mean to. I just wanted to get across that I disliked Fastest, thought that it was ridiculous to compare it's skill to professional level of play, and that it's what you'll find the most on Bnet and there's nothing really wrong with that and that's how it's going to be.
And I do think it would be funny if there was a high-money ladder, because the games would be ridiculous. Plus, Fastest wasn't suited for balanced competition, which is how I view the ladder.
Although I guarantee you I'll at least give Fastest a shot in SC2.
On April 26 2010 16:14 Plexa wrote: I don't mind people playing on fastest, personally. It's their choice - as long as they are getting enjoyment out of the game I'm happy with that. As long as they don't take a holier than thou approach to the rest of the world (and visa versa for that matter) then we should be able to live in harmony and celebrate a great game.
It's also at times a great tool to work on your macro and multitasking skills.
I know that for Pros, maybe FMP (Fastest Map Possible) isn't the greatest thing to ever happen to Starcraft.
But for people like me, it .. is... AWESOME.
- No need to worry about crazy, unpredictable maps - No need to worry about mining. - No need to worry about expanding.
Just head on mash ups of massive armies (YES NR 15 is SICK).
Hm.
I seem to remember another map... I THINK it was Zero Clutter? 3v3 Zero Clutter games were the most EPIC!! (It's the map divided in half for awesome 3v3 play, with a narrow choke in the middle?)
Gawd I love Starcraft.
And I'll love whoever remakes Zero Clutter for SC2. I will create a shrine in my home in honor of that person - for whoever remakes the sickest 3v3 map of all timeeee!!
... I know I'm not the only one who liked playing these maps... right? =D
On April 26 2010 16:19 RageOverdose wrote: I'm not gonna lie, I learned how to speed through production facilities thanks to Fastest, but I always (even before I knew about the pro scene) hated money maps like it. It's just that's what the common player plays. I guess they're fun if I want to dick around, but otherwise, I facepalm when people say it takes as much skill, even though all the macro is gone.
But I doubt you're going to prevent it. I mean, if anything, it would be reduced if the Korean pro scene was more apparent to all of Bnet users, but even then, it will probably always exist because there will be that player who hates economy in their RTS, even a game built around it.
Just be glad it won't be in the ladder (hopefully). Although, it would be funny if they had a high-money ladder.
You are so right, I hate when those plebs try and play my game the wrong way. Why don't they understand that they are doing it wrong? They should ban people from playing this game that aren't atleast B on iccup, I am so sick of these commoners crashing my beta server.
Did I really come off as an elitist prick?
I didn't mean to. I just wanted to get across that I disliked Fastest, thought that it was ridiculous to compare it's skill to professional level of play, and that it's what you'll find the most on Bnet and there's nothing really wrong with that and that's how it's going to be.
And I do think it would be funny if there was a high-money ladder, because the games would be ridiculous. Plus, Fastest wasn't suited for balanced competition, which is how I view the ladder.
Although I guarantee you I'll at least give Fastest a shot in SC2.
No hard feelings, I hate people who only play on fast money maps and refuse to try anything else. I just thought it was kind of funny how you said it.
I think fastest maps won´t be as much of a "problem" in SC2, because of Galaxy. There will be a mountain of awesome mods for the faint-hearted, offering easier ways to crack open the shell and overindulge the sweet fruits that are dangling from the SC2 tree.
I know that for Pros, maybe FMP (Fastest Map Possible) isn't the greatest thing to ever happen to Starcraft.
But for people like me, it .. is... AWESOME.
- No need to worry about crazy, unpredictable maps - No need to worry about mining. - No need to worry about expanding.
Just head on mash ups of massive armies (YES NR 15 is SICK).
Hm.
I seem to remember another map... I THINK it was Zero Clutter? 3v3 Zero Clutter games were the most EPIC!! (It's the map divided in half for awesome 3v3 play, with a narrow choke in the middle?)
Gawd I love Starcraft.
And I'll love whoever remakes Zero Clutter for SC2. I will create a shrine in my home in honor of that person - for whoever remakes the sickest 3v3 map of all timeeee!!
... I know I'm not the only one who liked playing these maps... right? =D
Glad to see that the fastest people can also transfer into sc2 as well. Im not personally a big fan of fastest maps, but even when playing bw somewhat seriously (not very) I still enjoyed a good 3v3 bgh, so I hope that we get something like that going in sc2 as well, eventhough protoss with maaaasss forcefield can be hard to overcome
i made this map yesterday. i think its perfect (dont wanna sound insane^^). 100% symmetric 100% fast money income, everyone got the same buildspace and there are no bugs like these hq boundry problem or performance issues due to massive mineral stones (if you proceeded with createing a real fasstest map, with 8x50 minerals you know what im talking about.)
I think the main problem with fastest in sc2 is going to be mules, being that they can mine over scvs. Terran will be pretty friggen strong due to that.
lol fastest is gonna be so absurd in sc2 with MBS and automine. at least in sc1 it trained you to work on your macro but now all you have to do is click a hotkey a few dozen times.
that said, i can't wait to play some games on it :D
On April 26 2010 19:18 Appendix wrote: I think fastest maps won´t be as much of a "problem" in SC2, because of Galaxy. There will be a mountain of awesome mods for the faint-hearted, offering easier ways to crack open the shell and overindulge the sweet fruits that are dangling from the SC2 tree.
UMS is going to be 10x as epic. Dota will probably be made, then played, then raged about. I think there needs to be some melee maps with absolutely stunning backgrounds, just to crank up the awe factor.
On April 27 2010 01:43 Senx wrote: Combat-EX will indeed find his place in SC2 as well.
In THE COPPER LEAGUE. Well at least the ban-hammer works well in sc2.
On April 26 2010 18:47 mynameisbean wrote: - No need to worry about crazy, unpredictable maps - No need to worry about mining. - No need to worry about expanding.
Might as well just watch other people's games, no?
Fastest maps were pretty much just a place where I'd go and mess around, try some new unit combos, or just turtle when I was bored. I don't think I'll be playing them in SC2, but I guess the demand from some players is there. All you have to do in this version of the editor is just hold shift while placing minerals/gas, it will let you place them wherever you want.
For those of you who think its mindless you should see some top level VGT play, theres some pretty skilled people. In BGH scene as well. I don't see the point of it in SC2 though, MBS and automine ruins any challenge it had.
ok i cant believe im going to argue this but i feel like i have to. fmp doesnt reduce the skill curve at all, all it does is speed up the game and reduce the complexities of expanding and macroing.
yes i know those are necessities in higher level non $ map play, stay with me though.
to say it reduces the skill level is idiotic. i guarentee you if pro gamers played fme there would be some sick gameplay going on and plaaaguuuu.
its like supcom 1 to 2 or dow 1 to 2. they both have simpler mechanics but the game is still as challenging, its just easier to get into for casual players which is why more people play it. its much easier to compete on fme, no doubt about that, but the skill level cap is nearly as high as it would be in the normal game. it would just be more about keeping your peons unharrassed and microing the shit out of every unit you have. less about expanding and map control.
with that all said i dont foresee myself ever playing one of those maps on sc2 but on sc1 its nice to not get murdered by some b- iccup guy on b.net and play fme instead
besides seriously nothing feels better then killing those damn workers with splash. nothing.
People have trouble expanding, I think that's the main reason FMP was created in the first place. I'm sure if casual players could handle throwing up an expansion at the correct times (lets say 8 and 16 minutes for example) they wouldn't even bother with FMP.
I think there may be problems with sentry spam. You can just get 20 sentry so easily and infinitly block off your choke(depending on how big it is in the map).
On April 27 2010 03:04 BDF92 wrote: I think there may be problems with sentry spam. You can just get 20 sentry so easily and infinitly block off your choke(depending on how big it is in the map).
That's what Battlecruisers, Carriers, and Broodlords are for. It is fastest, after all.
FME maps are fun and all, but I really feel like it makes getting competition together in dorms and such way harder than it should. It's not inaccurate to say that there is a larger group of people that play FMEs (check bnet 1.0), and in my experience, that is all people want to play.
FME can be fun in certain circumstances, but it really ruins a large chunk of the core gameplay in SC, like expansion and timings. It becomes a big colorful blob vs blob battle.
In SC2, I also don't see how FME is going to work so well with MBS... Zerg is going to be completely unstoppable past five minutes in, once they get a bunch of hatcheries + queens constantly spamming.
funny how op complained about scv hp nerf when tanks do 60 damage... I don't see how mules are any more imba in fastest than in normal play though, they get the same % returns extra for being closer. And energy doesn't come back any faster on OC.
If I ever play a game of this, I'm teching straight to storm. Ugh.
I'm totally fine with the fastest money maps, and they can be fun at times. What will make it different this time around is that they won't be part of matchmaking, so if you don't want to play these maps you won't have to.
On April 27 2010 03:15 danl9rm wrote: NR15 is stupid. it doesn't even take 15 mins on money maps to get to 200/200 and 3/3.
No one actually plays NR on fastest though, maybe years ago they did. But rushing is a big part of fastest particularly in 1v1. Its Zero Clutter maps which people play NR on... no rush till max unit limit usually, i think its a bit dumb myself.
On April 27 2010 02:47 KawaiiRice wrote: Why would I want to play a Fastest Helion Possible map?
Even fastest has certain simcities to prevent this kind of thing so i doubt it'd be different in SC2.
On April 27 2010 03:37 emikochan wrote: I don't see how mules are any more imba in fastest than in normal play though, they get the same % returns extra for being closer. And energy doesn't come back any faster on OC.
In normal maps there are limited amounts of minerals, so spamming OCs isn't really viable.
But in these types of maps, unlimited money = unlimited OCs = unlimited MULEs
On April 26 2010 16:14 Plexa wrote: I don't mind people playing on fastest, personally. It's their choice - as long as they are getting enjoyment out of the game I'm happy with that. As long as they don't take a holier than thou approach to the rest of the world (and visa versa for that matter) then we should be able to live in harmony and celebrate a great game.
I agree with you, Plexa. Not everybody is into starcraft because they want to be the next EG sponsorship, or on the next plane to South Korea to train with the pros. Some people just want to play some awesome UMS maps.
I have absolutely no problem with people playing fastest. However, if blizzard makes one tiny, tiny balance change because of fastest maps ill flip my shit.
On April 27 2010 04:14 Crais wrote: Sorry I don't think I am familiar with fastest map possible. Is it like BGH? Is the game speed just increased or just mass money like BGH?
mass money, but all the mineral patches are stacked onto the same spot, and they are all right next to the nexus/hatch/CC, giving you money as fast as possible without changing any unit stats or game speed. Don't you see the videos posted in the OP?
On April 27 2010 03:37 emikochan wrote: I don't see how mules are any more imba in fastest than in normal play though, they get the same % returns extra for being closer. And energy doesn't come back any faster on OC.
In normal maps there are limited amounts of minerals, so spamming OCs isn't really viable.
But in these types of maps, unlimited money = unlimited OCs = unlimited MULEs
But like you said.. you already have unlimited money....
I don't see mules becoming too imbalanced mid/late-game, actually. Like Mr. Bravo said, you already have unlimited money. Protoss can chrono boost out probes quick to gain their advantage, and Zerg can mass drones quick for their's respectively.
FMP is inevitable. what im curious about is if they can set such that you can build a cc/nexus/hatch right next to a mineral node. that would be a hallmark for sc2 fastest maps
On April 27 2010 03:56 sYz-Adrenaline wrote: Thall shall not play fastest..
Its actually thou. And shalt.
But on topic, can't wait haters gonna hate Why do people who love fastest get so fired up because people hate on fastest? Just ignore them and move along
The idea for a map like this is dumb, the only reason it survived in sc1 was because it was seen as a normal map instead of a custom map allowing people to play it for stats. I mean, you could just as well make each SCV turn in 20 minerals per trip as doing this and call it fastest and it would be the same thing, and really who would do that? And why stop at 20, why not increase it to 30, or even 50? Then it would be even faster, no? BUT, that is the point, without a hardcoded cap like you had in BW (Fastest was the fastest you could have without making a "use map settings" map) you will not have a limit which will fragment the playerbase and ultimately destroy it.
Fastest maps will be dead within a few months of release, I am sure of it. What will survive though are the normal money maps like BGH since they don't change the game except for making bases not run out of minerals.
On April 27 2010 05:00 Klockan3 wrote: The idea for a map like this is dumb, the only reason it survived in sc1 was because it was seen as a normal map instead of a custom map allowing people to play it for stats. I mean, you could just as well make each SCV turn in 20 minerals per trip as doing this and call it fastest and it would be the same thing, and really who would do that? And why stop at 20, why not increase it to 30, or even 50? Then it would be even faster, no? BUT, that is the point, without a hardcoded cap like you had in BW (Fastest was the fastest you could have without making a "use map settings" map) you will not have a limit which will fragment the playerbase and ultimately destroy it.
Fastest maps will be dead within a few months of release, I am sure of it. What will survive though are the normal money maps like BGH since they don't change the game except for making bases not run out of minerals.
you know your argument against fmp can be said the same for bgh as well.
hell, why not just make a custom trigger where no mining is needed, right? o_o
i love fastest cuz it bring back great memories. i play bgh/iccup now tho but when i started playing starcraft fastest was THE SHIT! so much fun big armies. its nice to try out everything a game has to offer rather then some close korean wanna bes in this forum :D
i love how these some of these hypocrites bash on fastest maps but praise the hell out of BGH at the same time. BGH is esentially the same thing as fastest maps only without the fastest part. you still stick to one base and MAYBE get ur natural or another double gas on BGH since theres no real need to expand at all.
its so stupid how some of you guys think. and the amount of ppl that choose BGH over the original and REAL hunters map is just as insane as fastest players. and whats even funnier is that some ppl consider BGH a non money map -_-; seriously ppl stop being dum asses.
and all of you "1v1 pytho obs" players are no better. playing one map and ONLY one map is nothing special what so ever so stop trying to be a elitist asshole.
fastest maps does not "ruin the game" like some retards may think. if it "ruined the game" then why the hell do we have a pro scene in starcraft? what would that make TL for if fastest maps "runied the game"? all of the pro players over in korea and the foreign pros are still playing starcraft competivily with or without fastest maps. so tell me how the hell it "ruins the game" if only casual players play on fastest maps?
seriously gtfo with that retarded bs. this fastest map ridiculing and elitism vs money map and non money map players has to fucking stop. its getting old and only shows your stupidity.
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote: fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing
d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_-
i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool
On April 27 2010 05:00 Klockan3 wrote: The idea for a map like this is dumb, the only reason it survived in sc1 was because it was seen as a normal map instead of a custom map allowing people to play it for stats. I mean, you could just as well make each SCV turn in 20 minerals per trip as doing this and call it fastest and it would be the same thing, and really who would do that? And why stop at 20, why not increase it to 30, or even 50? Then it would be even faster, no? BUT, that is the point, without a hardcoded cap like you had in BW (Fastest was the fastest you could have without making a "use map settings" map) you will not have a limit which will fragment the playerbase and ultimately destroy it.
Fastest maps will be dead within a few months of release, I am sure of it. What will survive though are the normal money maps like BGH since they don't change the game except for making bases not run out of minerals.
^
Well said. Even blizzard stated that they didn't really expect fastest maps to last that long. Who on the right mind would play fastest for no stats when they could just play their choice of random, casual, and actually well made UMS from a huge list.
On April 27 2010 05:00 Klockan3 wrote: The idea for a map like this is dumb, the only reason it survived in sc1 was because it was seen as a normal map instead of a custom map allowing people to play it for stats. I mean, you could just as well make each SCV turn in 20 minerals per trip as doing this and call it fastest and it would be the same thing, and really who would do that? And why stop at 20, why not increase it to 30, or even 50? Then it would be even faster, no? BUT, that is the point, without a hardcoded cap like you had in BW (Fastest was the fastest you could have without making a "use map settings" map) you will not have a limit which will fragment the playerbase and ultimately destroy it.
Fastest maps will be dead within a few months of release, I am sure of it. What will survive though are the normal money maps like BGH since they don't change the game except for making bases not run out of minerals.
^
Well said. Even blizzard stated that they didn't really expect fastest maps to last that long. Who on the right mind would play fastest for no stats when they could just play their choice of random, casual, and actually well made UMS from a huge list.
LOL!!
You do realise that Fastest Map is easier for noobs to start on than any of the other 'normal' maps SC1 offered.
I would have been super lost in the normal maps. But when my friend introduced me to SC1, it was to FMP - and I got hooked.
So there are benefits to FMP - you reel in players who might not have otherwise wanted to play SC1 online. It's a start anyway.
Chrono will give Protoss an equal boost, and so will Zerg's spawn larvae. I think it'll actually be almost even between each race's economy/macro mechanic.
On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote: fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing
d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_-
i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool
you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win.
i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-"
On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote: fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing
d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_-
i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool
you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win.
i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-"
your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_-
Fastest maps do have the benefit of showing the abilities of all units, though. Even though you normally would never be able to mass 200/200 of BC's, you get to see what happens if you were somehow able to
That said, good luck having the proper rig for it. I drop to like 10-20fps watching maxed out ZvT armies fight with all those damn lings and marines.
On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote: fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing
d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_-
i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool
you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win.
i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-"
your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_-
i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest.
bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter.
I doubt fastest money maps will last long in an environment like sc2. In sc1 you had no working ladder, only custom games... and playing on fastest money maps was essentially equal in value to playing on a real map with reference to your stats. With a working ladder and no reward for winning in fastest money maps, these maps will cease to exist fairly quickly. I'd suggest you guys keep your focus on sc1, because you are fighting an AMM with real stats and real ladder rankings.
On April 27 2010 20:03 Spartan wrote: Chrono will give Protoss an equal boost, and so will Zerg's spawn larvae. I think it'll actually be almost even between each race's economy/macro mechanic.
Thinking about this, i think now terran will actually have the most trouble since their macro mechanic won't matter as much anymore...
Or I could be completely wrong and 4 orbital commands becomes insta-moneyhax and will just make an entire base and army appear at instatly.
On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote: fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing
d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_-
i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool
you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win.
i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-"
your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_-
i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest.
bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter.
It's not "occasionally" fun if the players enjoy it then fuck off of them seriously. BGH is pretty much the same thing except you have to micro and all of that,because its a more refined map..
On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote: fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing
d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_-
i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool
you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win.
i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-"
your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_-
i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest.
bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter.
lol are you for real? each mineral patch on BGH is 50k minerals and each gas patch is 50k or 100k gas. most ppl that go on BGH stick to one base and turtle up just like on fastest... in 3v3s they either mass up zealots/lings and rush the hell out of someone. or they take advantage of the cliff in the back of ur base and siege there. zerg is horrible on that map because of the narrow chokes and the only open space being the center and toss can just cannon up and forever storm the choke when ever a mass of units come charging in. BGH is no diffrent from a fastest map and you only proved my point that i was making in my other post with what you said in this one.
ppl are hypocrites and the retardation lvl is just insane. the only thing diffrent between BGH and fastes is the location of the gass and minerals. but the way ppl play it is the exact same. they turtle up and mass a 200/200 army and send it to each other if there first rush fails.
another thing about BGH is whichever team controls the center of the map wins the game. that is automatic. get a terran, siege up the mid and plant some mines/turret and u will win 95% of the time i gurantee it. its no diffrent from fastest and ppl that say it takes more skill then fastest are just being ignorant trolls.
On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote: fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing
d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_-
i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool
you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win.
i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-"
your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_-
i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest.
bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter.
lol are you for real? each mineral patch on BGH is 50k minerals and each gas patch is 50k or 100k gas. most ppl that go on BGH stick to one base and turtle up just like on fastest... in 3v3s they either mass up zealots/lings and rush the hell out of someone. or they take advantage of the cliff in the back of ur base and siege there. zerg is horrible on that map because of the narrow chokes and the only open space being the center and toss can just cannon up and forever storm the choke when ever a mass of units come charging in. BGH is no diffrent from a fastest map and you only proved my point that i was making in my other post with what you said in this one.
ppl are hypocrites and the retardation lvl is just insane. the only thing diffrent between BGH and fastes is the location of the gass and minerals. but the way ppl play it is the exact same. they turtle up and mass a 200/200 army and send it to each other if there first rush fails.
another thing about BGH is whichever team controls the center of the map wins the game. that is automatic. get a terran, siege up the mid and plant some mines/turret and u will win 95% of the time i gurantee it. its no diffrent from fastest and ppl that say it takes more skill then fastest are just being ignorant trolls.
controlling map is part of strategy, and frankly, controlling map in fastest doesnt work. its not easy to control map as long as your team and opponents are competent. on fastest, a 4 protoss team will almost alway win against any other race combinations just through pure zealots followed up by mass dragoons.
im in no way justifying bgh as a normal, but the way you play BGH is definitely different than playing fastest. on BGH, you can turtle and tech to late game and use various strategies. on fastest, you use only 1 strategy and rush.
On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote: fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing
d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_-
i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool
you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win.
i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-"
your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_-
i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest.
bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter.
lol are you for real? each mineral patch on BGH is 50k minerals and each gas patch is 50k or 100k gas. most ppl that go on BGH stick to one base and turtle up just like on fastest... in 3v3s they either mass up zealots/lings and rush the hell out of someone. or they take advantage of the cliff in the back of ur base and siege there. zerg is horrible on that map because of the narrow chokes and the only open space being the center and toss can just cannon up and forever storm the choke when ever a mass of units come charging in. BGH is no diffrent from a fastest map and you only proved my point that i was making in my other post with what you said in this one.
ppl are hypocrites and the retardation lvl is just insane. the only thing diffrent between BGH and fastes is the location of the gass and minerals. but the way ppl play it is the exact same. they turtle up and mass a 200/200 army and send it to each other if there first rush fails.
another thing about BGH is whichever team controls the center of the map wins the game. that is automatic. get a terran, siege up the mid and plant some mines/turret and u will win 95% of the time i gurantee it. its no diffrent from fastest and ppl that say it takes more skill then fastest are just being ignorant trolls.
controlling map is part of strategy, and frankly, controlling map in fastest doesnt work. its not easy to control map as long as your team and opponents are competent. on fastest, a 4 protoss team will almost alway win against any other race combinations just through pure zealots followed up by mass dragoons.
the exact same thing can be said for BGH. since the bases are not that far away on BGH a 4 team toss can easily 2 gate rush someone and that someone is gonna always be a zerg player.
and yes map control is part of real strategy but the thing is the way BGH is built its easy to gain the center and even easier to hold if your terran. infact its PERFECT for terran, zerg nor toss can hold the center down as efficient as terran can. they way its built is just unbalanced towards certain races. zerg is terrible on that map where ass toss have isanely good offensive capablities and terrans defense makes it impossible for anyone to advance if they take center. fastest is actually alot more balanced then BGH is.
On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote: fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing
d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_-
i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool
you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win.
i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-"
your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_-
i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest.
bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter.
lol are you for real? each mineral patch on BGH is 50k minerals and each gas patch is 50k or 100k gas. most ppl that go on BGH stick to one base and turtle up just like on fastest... in 3v3s they either mass up zealots/lings and rush the hell out of someone. or they take advantage of the cliff in the back of ur base and siege there. zerg is horrible on that map because of the narrow chokes and the only open space being the center and toss can just cannon up and forever storm the choke when ever a mass of units come charging in. BGH is no diffrent from a fastest map and you only proved my point that i was making in my other post with what you said in this one.
ppl are hypocrites and the retardation lvl is just insane. the only thing diffrent between BGH and fastes is the location of the gass and minerals. but the way ppl play it is the exact same. they turtle up and mass a 200/200 army and send it to each other if there first rush fails.
another thing about BGH is whichever team controls the center of the map wins the game. that is automatic. get a terran, siege up the mid and plant some mines/turret and u will win 95% of the time i gurantee it. its no diffrent from fastest and ppl that say it takes more skill then fastest are just being ignorant trolls.
controlling map is part of strategy, and frankly, controlling map in fastest doesnt work. its not easy to control map as long as your team and opponents are competent. on fastest, a 4 protoss team will almost alway win against any other race combinations just through pure zealots followed up by mass dragoons.
the exact same thing can be said for BGH. since the bases are not that far away on BGH a 4 team toss can easily 2 gate rush someone and that someone is gonna always be a zerg player.
that will depend on team composition and spawn positions. in a very bad spawn location, yes the zerg will die (however, that zerg can still make 4-5 sunks with a good simcity, and likely live). but against a team of 3 zergs,1 terran and random positioning, it wont work
On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote: fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing
d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_-
i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool
you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win.
i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-"
your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_-
i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest.
bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter.
lol are you for real? each mineral patch on BGH is 50k minerals and each gas patch is 50k or 100k gas. most ppl that go on BGH stick to one base and turtle up just like on fastest... in 3v3s they either mass up zealots/lings and rush the hell out of someone. or they take advantage of the cliff in the back of ur base and siege there. zerg is horrible on that map because of the narrow chokes and the only open space being the center and toss can just cannon up and forever storm the choke when ever a mass of units come charging in. BGH is no diffrent from a fastest map and you only proved my point that i was making in my other post with what you said in this one.
ppl are hypocrites and the retardation lvl is just insane. the only thing diffrent between BGH and fastes is the location of the gass and minerals. but the way ppl play it is the exact same. they turtle up and mass a 200/200 army and send it to each other if there first rush fails.
another thing about BGH is whichever team controls the center of the map wins the game. that is automatic. get a terran, siege up the mid and plant some mines/turret and u will win 95% of the time i gurantee it. its no diffrent from fastest and ppl that say it takes more skill then fastest are just being ignorant trolls.
controlling map is part of strategy, and frankly, controlling map in fastest doesnt work. its not easy to control map as long as your team and opponents are competent. on fastest, a 4 protoss team will almost alway win against any other race combinations just through pure zealots followed up by mass dragoons.
the exact same thing can be said for BGH. since the bases are not that far away on BGH a 4 team toss can easily 2 gate rush someone and that someone is gonna always be a zerg player.
that will depend on team composition and spawn positions. in a very bad spawn location, yes the zerg will die (however, that zerg can still make 4-5 sunks with a good simcity, and likely live). but against a team of 3 zergs,1 terran and random positioning, it wont work
ps, editted previous post
4-5 sunks will put the zerg very far behind and in that case they would just move on to the next person since the zerg wont have nearly enough units to help there teammates.
and fastest maps isnt generally just 1 strategy, you should really watch some youtube vids of fastest maps that go on for like 20-30+ mins. that is where the real fun starts and believe it or not but it DOES get micro extensive and the very second you slow down on your macroing you loose.
as long as you have a decent team that actually helps when your in trouble you wont loose to the something like 4 toss going to 1 person and killing them. if no one helps you OF COURSE you will loose to a 4v1 gang bang lol. get your team to help and you wont loose to things like that. same goes for BGH actually.
your apm actually gets pretty dam high in a long lasting fastest map.
On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote: fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing
d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_-
i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool
you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win.
i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-"
your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_-
i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest.
bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter.
lol are you for real? each mineral patch on BGH is 50k minerals and each gas patch is 50k or 100k gas. most ppl that go on BGH stick to one base and turtle up just like on fastest... in 3v3s they either mass up zealots/lings and rush the hell out of someone. or they take advantage of the cliff in the back of ur base and siege there. zerg is horrible on that map because of the narrow chokes and the only open space being the center and toss can just cannon up and forever storm the choke when ever a mass of units come charging in. BGH is no diffrent from a fastest map and you only proved my point that i was making in my other post with what you said in this one.
ppl are hypocrites and the retardation lvl is just insane. the only thing diffrent between BGH and fastes is the location of the gass and minerals. but the way ppl play it is the exact same. they turtle up and mass a 200/200 army and send it to each other if there first rush fails.
another thing about BGH is whichever team controls the center of the map wins the game. that is automatic. get a terran, siege up the mid and plant some mines/turret and u will win 95% of the time i gurantee it. its no diffrent from fastest and ppl that say it takes more skill then fastest are just being ignorant trolls.
controlling map is part of strategy, and frankly, controlling map in fastest doesnt work. its not easy to control map as long as your team and opponents are competent. on fastest, a 4 protoss team will almost alway win against any other race combinations just through pure zealots followed up by mass dragoons.
the exact same thing can be said for BGH. since the bases are not that far away on BGH a 4 team toss can easily 2 gate rush someone and that someone is gonna always be a zerg player.
that will depend on team composition and spawn positions. in a very bad spawn location, yes the zerg will die (however, that zerg can still make 4-5 sunks with a good simcity, and likely live). but against a team of 3 zergs,1 terran and random positioning, it wont work
ps, editted previous post
4-5 sunks will put the zerg very far behind and in that case they would just move on to the next person since the zerg wont have nearly enough units to help there teammates.
and fastest maps isnt generally just 1 strategy, you should really watch some youtube vids of fastest maps that go on for like 20-30+ mins. that is where the real fun starts and believe it or not but it DOES get micro extensive and the very second you slow down on your macroing you loose.
as long as you have a decent team that actually helps when your in trouble you wont loose to the something like 4 toss going to 1 person and killing them. if no one helps you OF COURSE you will loose to a 4v1 gang bang lol. get your team to help and you wont loose to things like that. same goes for BGH actually.
uh no, on fastest, terrans and zergs cant do much early game except turtle, because terrans are weaker and zergs need more hatcheries before being able to do anything. so that means on fastest you cant get help from those players if you get rushed. a sim city also wont work, the zealots can just target buildings, kill them and reinforcements from 8 gateways each will be as quick as that.
of course its possible to variate your build, but my complain all along is that almost everytime i join a fastest game, i only see one strategy. and that strategy is very effective and almost always works. in the end if you want to win and you're playing against non d-'s, it all boils down to 2 teams of 4 protosses mass zealots and dragoons and seeing who can win
i loved playing fastest on sc1. except there were a shit ton of hackers that played fastest. i honestly do think fastest takes skill too (not as much) because you gotta learn when to tech/mass and actually protect your mineral line because you can lose ALL your workers in one storm (imagine losing 50 workers to one storm). i love both low money and fastest but prefer the quicker pace of fastest games because every low money game i play lasts way too long and sometimes i just want to squeeze a game inside 5-10 mins and with low money, unless you have a solid rush, it's quite difficult to have a short game a majority of the time.
I don't there is anything to prevent. If people find Fastest fun, who's going to stop that? There is an element of strategy in the map and definitely a lot of simcity. I don't think it's to the same extent as low econ maps, but I'm not going to stomp on someone's fun.
The one thing I find rather doubtful is it's utility to teach people the game. As limiting as the campaign is, I think I'd rather use that because resources run out. I have a heck of a time trying to get people to play low econ maps if they began their SC experience with big money maps. Whereas when I recruited people from other RTS's that were used to low econ maps, they were completely game to play on the proleague maps.
EPT
any one have ideas on how we can prevent this from happening more frequently??
![[image loading]](http://www.wezen-ball.com/images/stories/star-wars-baseball.jpg)
