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On April 28 2010 09:38 saltywet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 09:11 Ballistixz wrote:On April 28 2010 08:53 saltywet wrote:On April 27 2010 13:07 Ballistixz wrote:On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote:
fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_- i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win. i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-" your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_- i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest. bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter.
lol are you for real? each mineral patch on BGH is 50k minerals and each gas patch is 50k or 100k gas. most ppl that go on BGH stick to one base and turtle up just like on fastest... in 3v3s they either mass up zealots/lings and rush the hell out of someone. or they take advantage of the cliff in the back of ur base and siege there. zerg is horrible on that map because of the narrow chokes and the only open space being the center and toss can just cannon up and forever storm the choke when ever a mass of units come charging in. BGH is no diffrent from a fastest map and you only proved my point that i was making in my other post with what you said in this one.
ppl are hypocrites and the retardation lvl is just insane. the only thing diffrent between BGH and fastes is the location of the gass and minerals. but the way ppl play it is the exact same. they turtle up and mass a 200/200 army and send it to each other if there first rush fails.
another thing about BGH is whichever team controls the center of the map wins the game. that is automatic. get a terran, siege up the mid and plant some mines/turret and u will win 95% of the time i gurantee it. its no diffrent from fastest and ppl that say it takes more skill then fastest are just being ignorant trolls.
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On April 28 2010 10:00 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 09:38 saltywet wrote:On April 28 2010 09:11 Ballistixz wrote:On April 28 2010 08:53 saltywet wrote:On April 27 2010 13:07 Ballistixz wrote:On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote:
fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_- i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win. i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-" your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_- i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest. bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter. lol are you for real? each mineral patch on BGH is 50k minerals and each gas patch is 50k or 100k gas. most ppl that go on BGH stick to one base and turtle up just like on fastest... in 3v3s they either mass up zealots/lings and rush the hell out of someone. or they take advantage of the cliff in the back of ur base and siege there. zerg is horrible on that map because of the narrow chokes and the only open space being the center and toss can just cannon up and forever storm the choke when ever a mass of units come charging in. BGH is no diffrent from a fastest map and you only proved my point that i was making in my other post with what you said in this one. ppl are hypocrites and the retardation lvl is just insane. the only thing diffrent between BGH and fastes is the location of the gass and minerals. but the way ppl play it is the exact same. they turtle up and mass a 200/200 army and send it to each other if there first rush fails. another thing about BGH is whichever team controls the center of the map wins the game. that is automatic. get a terran, siege up the mid and plant some mines/turret and u will win 95% of the time i gurantee it. its no diffrent from fastest and ppl that say it takes more skill then fastest are just being ignorant trolls.
controlling map is part of strategy, and frankly, controlling map in fastest doesnt work. its not easy to control map as long as your team and opponents are competent. on fastest, a 4 protoss team will almost alway win against any other race combinations just through pure zealots followed up by mass dragoons.
im in no way justifying bgh as a normal, but the way you play BGH is definitely different than playing fastest. on BGH, you can turtle and tech to late game and use various strategies. on fastest, you use only 1 strategy and rush.
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On April 28 2010 10:59 saltywet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 10:00 Ballistixz wrote:On April 28 2010 09:38 saltywet wrote:On April 28 2010 09:11 Ballistixz wrote:On April 28 2010 08:53 saltywet wrote:On April 27 2010 13:07 Ballistixz wrote:On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote:
fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_- i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win. i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-" your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_- i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest. bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter. lol are you for real? each mineral patch on BGH is 50k minerals and each gas patch is 50k or 100k gas. most ppl that go on BGH stick to one base and turtle up just like on fastest... in 3v3s they either mass up zealots/lings and rush the hell out of someone. or they take advantage of the cliff in the back of ur base and siege there. zerg is horrible on that map because of the narrow chokes and the only open space being the center and toss can just cannon up and forever storm the choke when ever a mass of units come charging in. BGH is no diffrent from a fastest map and you only proved my point that i was making in my other post with what you said in this one. ppl are hypocrites and the retardation lvl is just insane. the only thing diffrent between BGH and fastes is the location of the gass and minerals. but the way ppl play it is the exact same. they turtle up and mass a 200/200 army and send it to each other if there first rush fails. another thing about BGH is whichever team controls the center of the map wins the game. that is automatic. get a terran, siege up the mid and plant some mines/turret and u will win 95% of the time i gurantee it. its no diffrent from fastest and ppl that say it takes more skill then fastest are just being ignorant trolls. controlling map is part of strategy, and frankly, controlling map in fastest doesnt work. its not easy to control map as long as your team and opponents are competent. on fastest, a 4 protoss team will almost alway win against any other race combinations just through pure zealots followed up by mass dragoons.
the exact same thing can be said for BGH. since the bases are not that far away on BGH a 4 team toss can easily 2 gate rush someone and that someone is gonna always be a zerg player.
and yes map control is part of real strategy but the thing is the way BGH is built its easy to gain the center and even easier to hold if your terran. infact its PERFECT for terran, zerg nor toss can hold the center down as efficient as terran can. they way its built is just unbalanced towards certain races. zerg is terrible on that map where ass toss have isanely good offensive capablities and terrans defense makes it impossible for anyone to advance if they take center. fastest is actually alot more balanced then BGH is.
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On April 28 2010 11:03 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 10:59 saltywet wrote:On April 28 2010 10:00 Ballistixz wrote:On April 28 2010 09:38 saltywet wrote:On April 28 2010 09:11 Ballistixz wrote:On April 28 2010 08:53 saltywet wrote:On April 27 2010 13:07 Ballistixz wrote:On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote:
fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_- i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win. i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-" your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_- i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest. bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter. lol are you for real? each mineral patch on BGH is 50k minerals and each gas patch is 50k or 100k gas. most ppl that go on BGH stick to one base and turtle up just like on fastest... in 3v3s they either mass up zealots/lings and rush the hell out of someone. or they take advantage of the cliff in the back of ur base and siege there. zerg is horrible on that map because of the narrow chokes and the only open space being the center and toss can just cannon up and forever storm the choke when ever a mass of units come charging in. BGH is no diffrent from a fastest map and you only proved my point that i was making in my other post with what you said in this one. ppl are hypocrites and the retardation lvl is just insane. the only thing diffrent between BGH and fastes is the location of the gass and minerals. but the way ppl play it is the exact same. they turtle up and mass a 200/200 army and send it to each other if there first rush fails. another thing about BGH is whichever team controls the center of the map wins the game. that is automatic. get a terran, siege up the mid and plant some mines/turret and u will win 95% of the time i gurantee it. its no diffrent from fastest and ppl that say it takes more skill then fastest are just being ignorant trolls. controlling map is part of strategy, and frankly, controlling map in fastest doesnt work. its not easy to control map as long as your team and opponents are competent. on fastest, a 4 protoss team will almost alway win against any other race combinations just through pure zealots followed up by mass dragoons. the exact same thing can be said for BGH. since the bases are not that far away on BGH a 4 team toss can easily 2 gate rush someone and that someone is gonna always be a zerg player.
that will depend on team composition and spawn positions. in a very bad spawn location, yes the zerg will die (however, that zerg can still make 4-5 sunks with a good simcity, and likely live). but against a team of 3 zergs,1 terran and random positioning, it wont work
ps, editted previous post
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On April 28 2010 11:07 saltywet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 11:03 Ballistixz wrote:On April 28 2010 10:59 saltywet wrote:On April 28 2010 10:00 Ballistixz wrote:On April 28 2010 09:38 saltywet wrote:On April 28 2010 09:11 Ballistixz wrote:On April 28 2010 08:53 saltywet wrote:On April 27 2010 13:07 Ballistixz wrote:On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote:
fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_- i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win. i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-" your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_- i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest. bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter. lol are you for real? each mineral patch on BGH is 50k minerals and each gas patch is 50k or 100k gas. most ppl that go on BGH stick to one base and turtle up just like on fastest... in 3v3s they either mass up zealots/lings and rush the hell out of someone. or they take advantage of the cliff in the back of ur base and siege there. zerg is horrible on that map because of the narrow chokes and the only open space being the center and toss can just cannon up and forever storm the choke when ever a mass of units come charging in. BGH is no diffrent from a fastest map and you only proved my point that i was making in my other post with what you said in this one. ppl are hypocrites and the retardation lvl is just insane. the only thing diffrent between BGH and fastes is the location of the gass and minerals. but the way ppl play it is the exact same. they turtle up and mass a 200/200 army and send it to each other if there first rush fails. another thing about BGH is whichever team controls the center of the map wins the game. that is automatic. get a terran, siege up the mid and plant some mines/turret and u will win 95% of the time i gurantee it. its no diffrent from fastest and ppl that say it takes more skill then fastest are just being ignorant trolls. controlling map is part of strategy, and frankly, controlling map in fastest doesnt work. its not easy to control map as long as your team and opponents are competent. on fastest, a 4 protoss team will almost alway win against any other race combinations just through pure zealots followed up by mass dragoons. the exact same thing can be said for BGH. since the bases are not that far away on BGH a 4 team toss can easily 2 gate rush someone and that someone is gonna always be a zerg player. that will depend on team composition and spawn positions. in a very bad spawn location, yes the zerg will die (however, that zerg can still make 4-5 sunks with a good simcity, and likely live). but against a team of 3 zergs,1 terran and random positioning, it wont work ps, editted previous post
4-5 sunks will put the zerg very far behind and in that case they would just move on to the next person since the zerg wont have nearly enough units to help there teammates.
and fastest maps isnt generally just 1 strategy, you should really watch some youtube vids of fastest maps that go on for like 20-30+ mins. that is where the real fun starts and believe it or not but it DOES get micro extensive and the very second you slow down on your macroing you loose.
as long as you have a decent team that actually helps when your in trouble you wont loose to the something like 4 toss going to 1 person and killing them. if no one helps you OF COURSE you will loose to a 4v1 gang bang lol. get your team to help and you wont loose to things like that. same goes for BGH actually.
your apm actually gets pretty dam high in a long lasting fastest map.
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On April 28 2010 11:18 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 11:07 saltywet wrote:On April 28 2010 11:03 Ballistixz wrote:On April 28 2010 10:59 saltywet wrote:On April 28 2010 10:00 Ballistixz wrote:On April 28 2010 09:38 saltywet wrote:On April 28 2010 09:11 Ballistixz wrote:On April 28 2010 08:53 saltywet wrote:On April 27 2010 13:07 Ballistixz wrote:On April 27 2010 11:55 saltywet wrote:
fastest map is so stupid
all the non d- protosses will go mass zealots transition into mass dragoons, the zergs will turtle and then mass hydras, and terran, well terran is the hardest race to play on this map
everyone just does the same thing d- is a casual player and thus just wants to enjoy the game and will have no desire to become a "pro" player. so who the fuck are u to take his enjoyment away from him just because he is a casual player? gtfo and let them have fun. if you want to watch pro players play then go watch them play and stop trying to bash on a casual player for being a fucking casual player -_- i know this is TL and its a site dedicated to pro gaming of starcraft, but someone has to draw the line some fucking where and let ppl enjoy starcraft any way they want to enjoy it. ppl bashing on other ppl just because there method of enjoying the game is different from another is just not cool you got issues, go get some counselling. how am i taking enjoyment away from players? where am i bashing players? i was just bashing the map. there is nothing enjoyable about doing the same goddam repetitive thing on this map just to win. i wasnt talking about the d- players anyways, if you couldnt read ill spell it out for you: "non d-" your entire post was there to bash on the map and the ppl that play on that map and its very obvious you were doing just that -_- i bash it because its a map where only occasionally its fun to mess around on it. people who know how to play actually play it seriously, which is meaningless and boring. and BGH is actually a lot better than fastest. bgh is a money map, but it takes more skill to play bgh, because on bgh you can't get 200/200 army in 6 minutes, on team games race composition plays a huge role, map position plays a huge role as well. you would not be able to beat 4 zergs with 4 protosses on bgh, you would have a difficult time as protoss spawning at 11 or 12 next to a zerg, but on fastest it doesnt matter. lol are you for real? each mineral patch on BGH is 50k minerals and each gas patch is 50k or 100k gas. most ppl that go on BGH stick to one base and turtle up just like on fastest... in 3v3s they either mass up zealots/lings and rush the hell out of someone. or they take advantage of the cliff in the back of ur base and siege there. zerg is horrible on that map because of the narrow chokes and the only open space being the center and toss can just cannon up and forever storm the choke when ever a mass of units come charging in. BGH is no diffrent from a fastest map and you only proved my point that i was making in my other post with what you said in this one. ppl are hypocrites and the retardation lvl is just insane. the only thing diffrent between BGH and fastes is the location of the gass and minerals. but the way ppl play it is the exact same. they turtle up and mass a 200/200 army and send it to each other if there first rush fails. another thing about BGH is whichever team controls the center of the map wins the game. that is automatic. get a terran, siege up the mid and plant some mines/turret and u will win 95% of the time i gurantee it. its no diffrent from fastest and ppl that say it takes more skill then fastest are just being ignorant trolls. controlling map is part of strategy, and frankly, controlling map in fastest doesnt work. its not easy to control map as long as your team and opponents are competent. on fastest, a 4 protoss team will almost alway win against any other race combinations just through pure zealots followed up by mass dragoons. the exact same thing can be said for BGH. since the bases are not that far away on BGH a 4 team toss can easily 2 gate rush someone and that someone is gonna always be a zerg player. that will depend on team composition and spawn positions. in a very bad spawn location, yes the zerg will die (however, that zerg can still make 4-5 sunks with a good simcity, and likely live). but against a team of 3 zergs,1 terran and random positioning, it wont work ps, editted previous post 4-5 sunks will put the zerg very far behind and in that case they would just move on to the next person since the zerg wont have nearly enough units to help there teammates. and fastest maps isnt generally just 1 strategy, you should really watch some youtube vids of fastest maps that go on for like 20-30+ mins. that is where the real fun starts and believe it or not but it DOES get micro extensive and the very second you slow down on your macroing you loose. as long as you have a decent team that actually helps when your in trouble you wont loose to the something like 4 toss going to 1 person and killing them. if no one helps you OF COURSE you will loose to a 4v1 gang bang lol. get your team to help and you wont loose to things like that. same goes for BGH actually.
uh no, on fastest, terrans and zergs cant do much early game except turtle, because terrans are weaker and zergs need more hatcheries before being able to do anything. so that means on fastest you cant get help from those players if you get rushed. a sim city also wont work, the zealots can just target buildings, kill them and reinforcements from 8 gateways each will be as quick as that.
of course its possible to variate your build, but my complain all along is that almost everytime i join a fastest game, i only see one strategy. and that strategy is very effective and almost always works. in the end if you want to win and you're playing against non d-'s, it all boils down to 2 teams of 4 protosses mass zealots and dragoons and seeing who can win
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i loved playing fastest on sc1. except there were a shit ton of hackers that played fastest. i honestly do think fastest takes skill too (not as much) because you gotta learn when to tech/mass and actually protect your mineral line because you can lose ALL your workers in one storm (imagine losing 50 workers to one storm). i love both low money and fastest but prefer the quicker pace of fastest games because every low money game i play lasts way too long and sometimes i just want to squeeze a game inside 5-10 mins and with low money, unless you have a solid rush, it's quite difficult to have a short game a majority of the time.
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Canada11349 Posts
re OP,
I don't there is anything to prevent. If people find Fastest fun, who's going to stop that? There is an element of strategy in the map and definitely a lot of simcity. I don't think it's to the same extent as low econ maps, but I'm not going to stomp on someone's fun.
The one thing I find rather doubtful is it's utility to teach people the game. As limiting as the campaign is, I think I'd rather use that because resources run out. I have a heck of a time trying to get people to play low econ maps if they began their SC experience with big money maps. Whereas when I recruited people from other RTS's that were used to low econ maps, they were completely game to play on the proleague maps.
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Hmm... I don't play fastest, but it would be interesting to see how unlimited unit selection affects it.
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On April 28 2010 12:28 BlackHat wrote:
Hmm... I don't play fastest, but it would be interesting to see how unlimited unit selection affects it.
It's actually only 255.
Not that that really matters unless you only have zerglings....
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EPT
