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On April 23 2010 04:20 Silver777 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 04:08 Kralic wrote:On April 23 2010 04:06 Silver777 wrote:On April 23 2010 04:02 Kralic wrote:On April 23 2010 03:57 iNty.sCream wrote:
leg speed for zealots costs still 200/200, so what was the problem with marauder concussion shells at patch 8? Remember Speed Zealots negate the slow pretty much and also Terran is spending 150/150 on Stim packs. The only use of speed zealots is to allow your zealots to get 1 hit off before they get kited to death.... Please don't post results you came up with a vacuum... it is called force field behind the maruaders so they can't kite. Unit diversity is a good thing for Protoss. Because obviously at all times and positions on the map I can just instantly warp in zealots and 6 sentrys to FF block to counter 4 stimmed marauders+medivac harass.....
See you did not say he had medivacs the first time. You could also say what does Terran do against a double drop immortal harass? It is something you have to deal with at that moment, if you let it destroy your base then you just did something very wrong. I would say 2 sentries and 2-4 zealots could delay his damage until you get something else there.
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On April 23 2010 04:19 Qikz wrote:
One thing I can't work out, is why they would remove Kulas and Lost Temple from the Map pool but keep Twilight Fortress in? Perhaps it's because it's a map that doesn't have as much testing done on it?
I would assume that its because they want people to play a greater volume of games on the new maps,(and the one we hate) Kulas and Lost temple were balanced enough to remove them from testing
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On April 23 2010 04:23 ComradeDover wrote:
It's less about your feedback and more about having some mice to run through the maze they made. Unless you really think your complain posts matter that much to blizzard. If they did, you'd see lurkers back in the game, roaches and marauders would be nerfed into oblivion, forcefield would have an HP bar, and infestors would cast Dark Swarm instead of infested terran.
Ask yourself if the your "feedback" is really all that valued. Then go back to running the maze, you mouse.
Well, then, I hope you're not posting any feedback because according to you, it's pointless. And no, I'm not naive just saying that having a voice to be heard is still vital to the improvement of the game.
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Just a heads up to everyone. Patch is now up for download, start your virtual engines. I'm not sure on the size but judging by the content added I'd hazard a guess at 256 MB.
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Stalker buff and broodlord nerf would have been far more effective than anything in this new patch... what a fail by blizzard -_-
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Jinro, do you think they should have nerfed Forcefield instead of nerfing the Immortal?
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On April 23 2010 04:26 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 04:22 Garrl wrote:On April 23 2010 04:18 FrozenArbiter wrote:Well, since the SCV hasn't had its HP returned to 60, this patch is useless. Fungal Growth projectile removed; Units in the target area are now instantly hit. Yeah, not like that shit was strong enough already --_-- Neural Parasite change seems good tho, 7 range wasn't enough for a unit that fragile. Immortal nerf seems pointless? On April 23 2010 04:18 Osmoses wrote:On April 23 2010 04:15 Haemonculus wrote:
Well I will continue to play Terran and try to build as few marauders as possible, lol.
I will also probably continue to get rolled late game by Protoss. Please give us an alternative to massing marauders! They are no fun to use!! This. I recognize the marauder is very useful, very good unit, but it is just so boring and most of the time I do what I can to not use them at all. Alternatives I've found are marines/ghosts into mech/ghosts and banshees/vikings. Too bad banshees and vikings are just as boring as marauders. It's a lot more fun than dying at least  Admittedly, the immortal nerf means that mech is more viable. It honestly doesn't, because the problem for mech was NEVER the immortal. The problem with mech is that you are extremely, EXTREMELY slow, have no spidermines so you don't have a real gas [mineral?] sink, tanks cost too much (3 supply and 125 gas? what?), and actually do their best work countering zealots (which, incidentally, the hellion already rapes). Immortals aren't scary, you have EMP - it's fine. Colossi are scary as fuck - a million hitpoints, nearly the same range and WAY more immobile [mobile?] than you? Well, good luck defending yourself vs blink or warp in or colossus raids on your main. The only viable mech option seems to be turtling half the map, but that's just incredibly boring. Bah. It's the same as the tank buldtime nerf [buff?] - it did NOTHING to help make pure mech more viable, because the problem was not in how long the units took to produce in the first place (infact, due to how much gas it takes to produce tanks, a faster buildtime probably did next to nothing since that's the limiting factor).
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Now TvP will be EVEN MORE dull, MMM ball vs collosi/chargezeal ball.
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On April 23 2010 04:23 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 04:14 Dingo_egret wrote:On April 23 2010 04:06 Mohdoo wrote:
I think that Blizzard is smart for not focusing much on balance this patch. Balance takes time to sort out. Sometimes imbalances come and go just from people playing more and figuring stuff out. These Bnet changes are really good. I'd expect a balance patch maybe 2 weeks from now or so. Definetly this. How many years was it before P players figured out how to be even against Z in BW? Everyone and their mother thought the matchup was a bit imbalanced in Z's favor when I joined TL in 2005, and when I came back for Sc2 suddenly no one's complaining anymore, with no balance changes in between. People have to stop assuming they've figured the whole game out, especially with how young it is; even the best players around (which honestly complain MUCH less than most random people) can't really be counted on to make massive changes, simply because their play isn't developed enough at this stage. Maybe some could argue about marauder/roach/immortal being 'boring' and whatnot, but I just think maybe some new strategies that don't revolve around them still need to pop up. Actually there were balance changes in professional BW that helped protoss vs zerg - the maps.
Ok, I can understand that. What's to say SC2 balance can't be helped by maps either, then...?
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On April 23 2010 04:20 Niton wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:57 Lz wrote:On April 23 2010 03:55 ilnp wrote:
you people blow my mind
marauders are not any better. 80s down to 60s and 100/100 down to 50/50. 50/50 takes what, ten seconds to mine? so 30 seconds of the game, you are facing marauders that are stronger than they would be last patch. OH MY GOD, T IS IMBA!~ /agree Marauders are more efficient than Immortals at killing both Armored and Unarmored targets with stim with the ability to kite, but against light units they have slightly less health (but have Medivacs). I don't expect to be able to fend off a simple marauder ball with the preparations I have to take to defend against all of T's other openings. Everything wrong with the TvP matchup can be traced directly to the Marauder. Marauders are as efficient vs shielded Immortals as they are vs Zealots or Sentries. Marauders, stimmed, do more DPS to buildings than -Void Rays- at the same supply, at a fraction of the cost. A single EMP going off makes Marauders strongly counter Immortals, and the only counter to EMP is a tech tree that requires a total of 550 gas to produce a single unit that can do anything but Feedback. This unit needs to co-exist with a unit who costs another 400 gas in tech and 200 for itself before it even begins to act as a soft counter to Marauders. Marauders also happen to dominate any engagements in which the Terran has the same supply as the Protoss because of the power of Stim increasing the effective size of your army by 20% after factoring in the HP loss. There is no longer a single unit in the Protoss arsenal which can both answer Marauders in sufficient numbers and in sufficient force to counter them. Even the best of them, the Colossus and HT, are so heavy on Gas cost that it's difficult to produce enough of them to counter a MMM + Ghost ball. And to top it off? Marauders outrun the entire Protoss army while stimmed, with the exception of Zealots under the effect of Charge. Why would Terran ever build another unit against P? Void Rays are the only air unit P has that's even mildly threatening, and even Barracks with Tech Labs can produce enough Marines to counter them. It's bad enough playing against Terran and only seeing two and a half units all game. It's a whole other thing to diversify your army properly and still lose to it because Marauders are simply more efficient than your entire army.
I agree with all of this. Up until this patch I've played 90% T, but got bored after the last patch. I had fun trying out bio+air, bio+mech, pure mech, etc against zerg. But protoss mach ups just seemed so boring. I felt so weak if I didn't use a ton of marauders, but I didn't want to do that (so I lost a lot).
I'm going to play some zerg and protoss now until I feel comfortable to play random with this patch. I'm hoping to make some good use of the infestor changes, and try some protoss builds that aren't 4 gate, or 3 gate robo timing attacks. I'm also hopeful that mech units will work their way into TvP builds now, but I'm not sure they will yet.
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No banshee nerf? WTF I just lost a dollar
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On April 23 2010 04:18 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Colossi are scary as fuck - a million hitpoints.
wat
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This patch is huge... 5 bars and going
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On April 23 2010 04:26 Daerthalus wrote:
This is one of the stupidest Balance patches ever.
Marauder Slow Research Time QUICK and COST Cheaper??!?
Immortal Build time increased?!
The immortal build time increase really isn't that big of a deal. If you still have your heart set on an immortal rush vs Terran, you'll still be chronoboosting which only makes it a 7 second increase.
The marauder buff isn't all that big of a deal, they have always been a pretty ridiculous unit in terms of cost-effectiveness and ground-ownage.
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I wonder whether the new map is going to fry my 3 year old 8800 GTS graphic card or not....
And also, no ladder reset? o_0
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Yeah it is huge. Patch downloading...
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On April 23 2010 04:30 StriverzG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 04:18 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Colossi are scary as fuck - a million hitpoints. wat
You missed that patch note? 1,000,000 HP plus 150 shields. 
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Every patch shouldn't just be seen as a further refinement towards the final product. They are probably testing every unit at a range of power levels and will pick the best one for release. When something is buffed or nerfed they might not think it's for the best or that it should stay that way all else being equal, but rather how buffing or nerfing a units affects every other part of the game.
Really I think a lot of this balancing is so they can get a feel for how small tweaks to the unit stats affect the changes. In a way these balance changes are practice for them for how to balance rather than for the end goal of getting every unit balanced by release. Remember that they are going to add new units with each expansion so they want to make sure they have their Kung Fu down before they start killing. The hardcore balancing will probably come after release.
Edit: also remember that once the game is released, Blizzard doesn't just sit back and play it all day. This beta is as much training for their post-release working staff as it is a tool to refine and test the game.
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On April 23 2010 04:29 Dingo_egret wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 04:23 lololol wrote:On April 23 2010 04:14 Dingo_egret wrote:On April 23 2010 04:06 Mohdoo wrote:
I think that Blizzard is smart for not focusing much on balance this patch. Balance takes time to sort out. Sometimes imbalances come and go just from people playing more and figuring stuff out. These Bnet changes are really good. I'd expect a balance patch maybe 2 weeks from now or so. Definetly this. How many years was it before P players figured out how to be even against Z in BW? Everyone and their mother thought the matchup was a bit imbalanced in Z's favor when I joined TL in 2005, and when I came back for Sc2 suddenly no one's complaining anymore, with no balance changes in between. People have to stop assuming they've figured the whole game out, especially with how young it is; even the best players around (which honestly complain MUCH less than most random people) can't really be counted on to make massive changes, simply because their play isn't developed enough at this stage. Maybe some could argue about marauder/roach/immortal being 'boring' and whatnot, but I just think maybe some new strategies that don't revolve around them still need to pop up. Actually there were balance changes in professional BW that helped protoss vs zerg - the maps. Ok, I can understand that. What's to say SC2 balance can't be helped by maps either, then...?
Because the map pool is being made by Blizzard, who aren't the most well known for balanced maps, especially seeing SC1's Blizzard map pool against the current metagame.
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friends this friends that, are these changes made for facebook or for SC2?
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EPT
