|
On April 23 2010 04:20 Niton wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:57 Lz wrote:On April 23 2010 03:55 ilnp wrote:
you people blow my mind
marauders are not any better. 80s down to 60s and 100/100 down to 50/50. 50/50 takes what, ten seconds to mine? so 30 seconds of the game, you are facing marauders that are stronger than they would be last patch. OH MY GOD, T IS IMBA!~ /agree Marauders are more efficient than Immortals at killing both Armored and Unarmored targets with stim with the ability to kite, but against light units they have slightly less health (but have Medivacs). I don't expect to be able to fend off a simple marauder ball with the preparations I have to take to defend against all of T's other openings. Everything wrong with the TvP matchup can be traced directly to the Marauder. Marauders are as efficient vs shielded Immortals as they are vs Zealots or Sentries. Marauders, stimmed, do more DPS to buildings than -Void Rays- at the same supply, at a fraction of the cost. A single EMP going off makes Marauders strongly counter Immortals, and the only counter to EMP is a tech tree that requires a total of 550 gas to produce a single unit that can do anything but Feedback. This unit needs to co-exist with a unit who costs another 400 gas in tech and 200 for itself before it even begins to act as a soft counter to Marauders. Marauders also happen to dominate any engagements in which the Terran has the same supply as the Protoss because of the power of Stim increasing the effective size of your army by 20% after factoring in the HP loss. There is no longer a single unit in the Protoss arsenal which can both answer Marauders in sufficient numbers and in sufficient force to counter them. Even the best of them, the Colossus and HT, are so heavy on Gas cost that it's difficult to produce enough of them to counter a MMM + Ghost ball. And to top it off? Marauders outrun the entire Protoss army while stimmed, with the exception of Zealots under the effect of Charge. Why would Terran ever build another unit against P? Void Rays are the only air unit P has that's even mildly threatening, and even Barracks with Tech Labs can produce enough Marines to counter them. It's bad enough playing against Terran and only seeing two and a half units all game. It's a whole other thing to diversify your army properly and still lose to it because Marauders are simply more efficient than your entire army.
Great post
|
|
|
On April 23 2010 04:16 Crissaegrim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 04:09 ComradeDover wrote:
Maybe people didn't get the changes they wanted in place because:
1) Blizzard knows better than you do.
2) Blizzard can't read your tears. 1) Not necessarily actually, they too are men and like all men they are not infallible. If they knew better why release a beta anyway to get OUR feedback? 2) Read 1.
It's less about your feedback and more about having some mice to run through the maze they made. Unless you really think your complain posts matter that much to blizzard. If they did, you'd see lurkers back in the game, roaches and marauders would be nerfed into oblivion, forcefield would have an HP bar, and infestors would cast Dark Swarm instead of infested terran.
Ask yourself if the your "feedback" is really all that valued. Then go back to running the maze, you mouse.
|
On April 23 2010 04:14 Dingo_egret wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 04:06 Mohdoo wrote:
I think that Blizzard is smart for not focusing much on balance this patch. Balance takes time to sort out. Sometimes imbalances come and go just from people playing more and figuring stuff out. These Bnet changes are really good. I'd expect a balance patch maybe 2 weeks from now or so. Definetly this. How many years was it before P players figured out how to be even against Z in BW? Everyone and their mother thought the matchup was a bit imbalanced in Z's favor when I joined TL in 2005, and when I came back for Sc2 suddenly no one's complaining anymore, with no balance changes in between. People have to stop assuming they've figured the whole game out, especially with how young it is; even the best players around (which honestly complain MUCH less than most random people) can't really be counted on to make massive changes, simply because their play isn't developed enough at this stage. Maybe some could argue about marauder/roach/immortal being 'boring' and whatnot, but I just think maybe some new strategies that don't revolve around them still need to pop up.
Actually there were balance changes in professional BW that helped protoss vs zerg - the maps.
|
The infestor if it HAS to spawn a unit I prefer them to be broodlings over uglyass infested terrans.
|
Good patch, new stuff to watch (no beta key).
|
On April 23 2010 04:15 Thamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 04:10 Koffiegast wrote:
I wanted ultra/lings become more viable.
Ultras got a significant indirect buff with the infestor buff (easier transition). They're still pretty bad tho...
I dont really feel how they are buffed at all, even when infestor should be a tad better. They are really bad for their costs, Hive is still not necessary at all except for endgame to get broodlords.
They couldve done so much, yet done so little.
That said, Im happy when the editor works fine and allows me to save stuff.
|
On April 23 2010 04:17 hzhao wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 04:16 Crissaegrim wrote:On April 23 2010 04:09 ComradeDover wrote:
Maybe people didn't get the changes they wanted in place because:
1) Blizzard knows better than you do.
2) Blizzard can't read your tears. 1) Not necessarily actually, they too are men and like all men they are not infallible. If they knew better why release a beta anyway to get OUR feedback? 2) Read 1. because they have data, and replays for whatever they want, you don't
Wow, in that case, what's the point of this site for discussion? What's the point of beta? Just because they have data and replays does not mean they know better. Having the data does not mean that the knowledge will be applied correctly.
|
New maps!
Finally, and infestor buffs, niiice
|
thank god they have changed the infestor's abilities 
|
Don't know what people are complaining so much, grid-based hotkeys is a great modification/addition, and people were whining about immortals anyways, so I think it looks quite okay.
|
This is one of the stupidest Balance patches ever.
Marauder Slow Research Time QUICK and COST Cheaper??!?
Immortal Build time increased?!
So now I'm supposed to beat Marauders with Zealots? That they can slow even earlier than before. Stalkers that Cost more and lose to Marauders and who have to spend 150/150 on an upgrade when Marauders spend 50/50. Sentrys that are super slow and have shitty HP. Sure I can FF, but unless Terran is retarded and just A_moves you can easily pull back and avoid FFs while killing stuff. Hmmmm....or Immortals that won't be out in time to stop a wave of Marauders from either securing an expansion or harassing/all-in-ing me.
Awesome Blizz...Great job!!
|
why?????? NOOOOOO IMMORTALS!!
im rdy to get rolled over by some marauders in the up and coming days.
damn u blizzard
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 23 2010 04:22 Garrl wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 04:18 FrozenArbiter wrote:Well, since the SCV hasn't had its HP returned to 60, this patch is useless. Fungal Growth projectile removed; Units in the target area are now instantly hit. Yeah, not like that shit was strong enough already --_-- Neural Parasite change seems good tho, 7 range wasn't enough for a unit that fragile. Immortal nerf seems pointless? On April 23 2010 04:18 Osmoses wrote:On April 23 2010 04:15 Haemonculus wrote:
Well I will continue to play Terran and try to build as few marauders as possible, lol.
I will also probably continue to get rolled late game by Protoss. Please give us an alternative to massing marauders! They are no fun to use!! This. I recognize the marauder is very useful, very good unit, but it is just so boring and most of the time I do what I can to not use them at all. Alternatives I've found are marines/ghosts into mech/ghosts and banshees/vikings. Too bad banshees and vikings are just as boring as marauders. It's a lot more fun than dying at least  Admittedly, the immortal nerf means that mech is more viable.
It honestly doesn't, because the problem for mech was NEVER the immortal. The problem with mech is that you are extremely, EXTREMELY slow, have no spidermines so you don't have a real mineral sink, tanks cost too much (3 supply and 125 gas? what?), and actually do their best work countering zealots (which, incidentally, the hellion already rapes).
Immortals aren't scary, you have EMP - it's fine. Colossi are scary as fuck - a million hitpoints, nearly the same range and WAY more mobile than you? Well, good luck defending yourself vs blink or warp in or colossus raids on your main. The only viable mech option seems to be turtling half the map, but that's just incredibly boring.
Bah. It's the same as the tank buldtime nerf - it did NOTHING to help make pure mech more viable, because the problem was not in how long the units took to produce in the first place (infact, due to how much gas it takes to produce tanks, a faster buildtime probably did next to nothing since that's the limiting factor).
|
On April 23 2010 04:24 Crissaegrim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 04:17 hzhao wrote:On April 23 2010 04:16 Crissaegrim wrote:On April 23 2010 04:09 ComradeDover wrote:
Maybe people didn't get the changes they wanted in place because:
1) Blizzard knows better than you do.
2) Blizzard can't read your tears. 1) Not necessarily actually, they too are men and like all men they are not infallible. If they knew better why release a beta anyway to get OUR feedback? 2) Read 1. because they have data, and replays for whatever they want, you don't Wow, in that case, what's the point of this site for discussion? What's the point of beta? Just because they have data and replays does not mean they know better. Having the data does not mean that the knowledge will be applied correctly.
Having data (and college degrees and being successful game developers) absolutely means they know better than a gold-ranked teenager who can't overcome roaches, or marauders, or whatever the flavor of the week is for complainers.
|
Awesome patch, because of new maps
|
On April 23 2010 04:12 Qikz wrote:
Build Sensor Tower has been changed from W to N.
Terran Infantry Weapons have been changed from W to E.
Terran Vehicle Weapons have been changed from W to E.
Weapon Refit has been changed from W to R.
These don't make any sense, What was wrong with them in the first place? Sensor towers hotkey is now on the complete wrong side of the keyboard for me now.
I think it's for custom game modes that people will potentially make with the editor... if you end up controlling toss and terran for whatever reason, this way the hotkeys won't conflict with each other.
(or I guess if you're Z and manage to neutral parasite an SCV and probe :p )
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 23 2010 04:26 Daerthalus wrote:
This is one of the stupidest Balance patches ever.
Marauder Slow Research Time QUICK and COST Cheaper??!?
Immortal Build time increased?!
So now I'm supposed to beat Marauders with Zealots? That they can slow even earlier than before. Stalkers that Cost more and lose to Marauders and who have to spend 150/150 on an upgrade when Marauders spend 50/50. Sentrys that are super slow and have shitty HP. Hmmmm....or Immortals that won't be out in time to stop a wave of Marauders from either securing an expansion or harassing/all-in-ing me.
Awesome Blizz...Great job!!
4 warpgate zealot sentry honestly beats marauders pretty god damn hard, especially on any map with a ramp where you can just seal him in.
On April 23 2010 04:27 Deagle wrote:Awesome patch, because of new maps
Well, this is true - new maps and map editor means the patch is pretty awesome.
|
On April 23 2010 04:18 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Immortal nerf seems pointless?
Seems directed at the 2-3 immortal timing push that I've been seeing a lot of, which has been very strong, and will now be delayed by 15sec x n(Immortal), minus time spent chrono'd. So that timing is thrown 25+ seconds, which makes the window much narrower. I feel there's still a window for it, though.
Making many immortals off of one robotics bay might be the issue, too. Maybe they want everyone to build more robos.
So it doesn't seem all that pointless to me. We'll see how it plays out.
|
I think they'd be better off taking away Marauder's ability to Stim. Or when they Stim it only increases their attack speed and not movement - or vice versa. Or let Stim stay the same, but instead Stimmed shots do NOT do the slowdown. Might make it interesting micro to not stim some Marauders to slow the enemy down, and then stim.
Look, the point is there is a lot of creative answers here. But Blizzard isn't making any moves.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
