I'm surprised that this is the only source for now, but it seems legit.
According to The Korea Times, an english-language daily paper, the South Korean Games Rating Board has restricted the game to an adult audience because of "the game's level of violence, foul language and depiction of drug use."
The news just keeps getting worse for computer games giant Blizzard Entertainment, which is reeling after Korea's Games Rating Board moved to ban youngsters from playing its upcoming title, ``StarCraft II.''
StarCraft II was obviously the most-anticipated launch of 2010, being the sequel to the original game that has sold more than 5 million copies since its 1998 release, while singlehandedly spawning a whole new industry of ``PC bangs'' (commercial gaming lounges), and professional gaming leagues within a movement dubbed as e-sports.
The decision by the Games Rating Board, a unit of the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism, is certainly a letdown, although Blizzard can file an objection within the next 30 days.
A Blizzard Korea spokeswoman said the company has yet to decide whether to challenge the decision by Korean game censors. Should Blizzard opt to adjust the disputed parts of the content and retry the whole reviewing process, as it did with the first game, the release of StarCraft II would likely be delayed until next year.
What do you think? Is this decision to be taken at face value, or is it a move initiated by KeSPA -- an official body recognized by the Ministry of Culture -- to delay SCII and put pressure on Blizzard?
This could be related to the so-called "gaming curfew" that the government is planning to enforce, along with "other attempts to improve gaming behavior and curb compulsive gaming and addictions."
What I mean is, even if the parents buy it for them, these fictional progamers, would they be able to play it in a televised league? What with being for adults only.
Blizzard will just do what the UK had to do for some violent games, turn the blood green, take out swear words and put in a subliminal flash that goes across the screen that says "Kespa is always right." Then Kespa might approve of it and slap on the E rating.
Dont you have to login to the internet using an id in korea? So this wont be a case of parents just buy anyway and the kid plays. I'm sure blizz will go back and try to crate a less "obscene" version.
On April 17 2010 07:22 Two_DoWn wrote: Dont you have to login to the internet using an id in korea? So this wont be a case of parents just buy anyway and the kid plays. I'm sure blizz will go back and try to crate a less "obscene" version.
a lot of korean online games require you to have an adult ID to play (or play for more than a few hours).
I remember playing Aion on the chinese servers, and i needed to find a fake korean adult ID to play for more than 2hrs without it blocking the XP gained .
Many Asian countries have rules that ban children from playing long hours because of internet/online gaming addiction which is seen as an epidemic that lead to delinquency among youths. This whole business with blood & foul language, though, is crap and smells of Kespa.
This is typical of these agencies. The first run through they pretty much always reject it so that they can just take a bunch of random shit out and then they've done their job protecting the children.
The only thing that better happen is the changes better not sneak their way into my version of the game or I'm going to rage.
On April 17 2010 07:22 Two_DoWn wrote: Dont you have to login to the internet using an id in korea? So this wont be a case of parents just buy anyway and the kid plays. I'm sure blizz will go back and try to crate a less "obscene" version.
no, because your logging in through Battle.net and battlenet doesnt require ID#. you guys keep thinking that people need to log in with ID# to access internet or something -.-
Only games that require ID#s to play are games that require you to initiate the game through a website and that is only because you require an ID# to create an account. the only time we use the ID#s is to create an account in the first place, and battle.net doesnt require a need for ID#s
On April 17 2010 07:22 Two_DoWn wrote: Dont you have to login to the internet using an id in korea? So this wont be a case of parents just buy anyway and the kid plays. I'm sure blizz will go back and try to crate a less "obscene" version.
no, because your logging in through Battle.net and battlenet doesnt require ID#. you guys keep thinking that people need to log in with ID# to access internet or something -.-
Only games that require ID#s to play are games that require you to initiate the game through a website and that is only because you require an ID# to create an account. the only time we use the ID#s is to create an account in the first place, and battle.net doesnt require a need for ID#s
honestly, wtf... I agree this really reeks of Kespa
I think Broodwar is much more "violent" and stims were there too... we didn t see the campaign yet, but that cant be that bad. When I think of the livestyle/exploitation of korean progamers that statement isnt even funny anymore.
I'm sick and tired that E-Sports get hijacked by corrupt governments like those found in China and Korea. Hopefully SC 2 will a great catalyst for E-Sports in countries like Germany.
I wonder if Blizzard could release an adult version now, and the children version later. That would give extra value to the adult version. It would have that forbiden appeal.
On April 17 2010 07:50 zomgzergrush wrote: So if SC2 gets delayed further, we blame Korea?
This won't affect us. They'll just make a Korean' special SC2. Like the China WoW.
On April 17 2010 07:22 Two_DoWn wrote: Dont you have to login to the internet using an id in korea? So this wont be a case of parents just buy anyway and the kid plays. I'm sure blizz will go back and try to crate a less "obscene" version.
no, because your logging in through Battle.net and battlenet doesnt require ID#. you guys keep thinking that people need to log in with ID# to access internet or something -.-
Only games that require ID#s to play are games that require you to initiate the game through a website and that is only because you require an ID# to create an account. the only time we use the ID#s is to create an account in the first place, and battle.net doesnt require a need for ID#s
I thought SC2 would be the first (?) Blizzard game to have this?
cant blizzard just shut kespa down if they really wanted to? afterall they are using blizzards game for profit and im pretty sure the agreement says that everything that has anything to do with starcraft is owned by blizzard
On April 17 2010 07:51 Eury wrote: Hopefully SC 2 will a great catalyst for E-Sports in countries like Germany.
don t hope for us, our politicans are just as stupid ^^
Sure, if SC 2 was a FPS I would worry about Germany too. But at least they use age rating for what they are meant for, and not as a punishment just because you can't profit from a company's product without paying them for it.
Fuck KESPA is gay. Such money hungry pigs. Blizzard should ban them from having any right to play/broadcast Broodwar, and then restart BW progaming in Korea themselves.
On April 17 2010 07:51 Eury wrote: Hopefully SC 2 will a great catalyst for E-Sports in countries like Germany.
don t hope for us, our politicans are just as stupid ^^
Sure, if SC 2 was a FPS I would worry about Germany too. But at least they use age rating for what they are meant for, and not as a punishment just because you can't profit from a company's product without paying them for it.
no, not so someone can profit, but the moment som teenager fucks something up they'll shut down esport events again ...
On April 17 2010 07:51 Eury wrote: Hopefully SC 2 will a great catalyst for E-Sports in countries like Germany.
don t hope for us, our politicans are just as stupid ^^
Sure, if SC 2 was a FPS I would worry about Germany too. But at least they use age rating for what they are meant for, and not as a punishment just because you can't profit from a company's product without paying them for it.
no, not so someone can profit, but the moment som teenager fucks something up they'll shut down esport events again ...
Well, its largely Counter-Strike they are after. But yeah, I guess US is our greatest hope when it comes to E-Sports, which is a bit scary considering how far E-Sports is to become acceptable there.
Not the best move by Kespa. Since all Korean parents know full well what sc2 is about, they will let their kids play it because they don't mind their kids pro gaming for 6+ hours a day, not because it's inappropriate for kids.
well, this doesnt hurt blizzard who dont really profit from progaming in korea and im sure they are working on a "clean" version of sc2 for other countries like germany anyways.
So the only thing this does is delaying potential sc2 progaming in korea for a few months. Oh that and probably summoning the wrath of blizzard, whatever form that has.
imo Korea is the only country where SC2 can become the national sport. I highly doubt any other country would have popular televised SC2 tournaments like korea does.
so, Blizzard MUST find a way to conquer the korean scene.
On April 17 2010 08:22 LaNague wrote: well, this doesnt hurt blizzard who dont really profit from progaming in korea and im sure they are working on a "clean" version of sc2 for other countries like germany anyways.
So the only thing this does is delaying potential sc2 progaming in korea for a few months. Oh that and probably summoning the wrath of blizzard, whatever form that has.
I thought one of the biggest reasons was kespa not agreeing to pay the excessive licensing fee that they pay for SC1 that Blizzard is demanding for SC2 so it should be quite a bit of cash they make from Korea.
On April 17 2010 08:22 LaNague wrote: well, this doesnt hurt blizzard who dont really profit from progaming in korea and im sure they are working on a "clean" version of sc2 for other countries like germany anyways.
So the only thing this does is delaying potential sc2 progaming in korea for a few months. Oh that and probably summoning the wrath of blizzard, whatever form that has.
I thought one of the biggest reasons was kespa not agreeing to pay the excessive licensing fee that they pay for SC1 that Blizzard is demanding for SC2 so it should be quite a bit of cash they make from Korea.
They don't pay anything for SC1.
>0 is not excessive. I think its rather reasonable.
Its Blizzard fault because they wanna meddle in Kespa affairs. Kespa just reacts in really defensive way making Blizzard lose big profits in Korea. Kespa by definition is Korean e-Sports Players Association so they care only about Korea and think they got legal rights over BW because they got license from Blizzard long time ago so Blizzard cant do shit about BW progaming.
I say leave Kespa alone they provide us great entertaiment and yea they treat their players really bad but i dont really care about that as long there is tons of great games to be watched . Even if they manage some agreement about SC2 progaming in Korea i wont watch the games because honestly SC2 is not entertaining to watch like BW.
If Blizzard wanna develop esports around the world let them make their own association for example Bespa ( Blizzard e-Sports Players Association ) or something similar to that if they really cared about esports which i really doubt it. Invest 0.1% of your multibillion wow industry cash machine for SC2 progaming but no they want free money bullying Kepsa of their hard earned money.
The decision is preety "stupid" considering BW is basicly the same but when politics and money are involved everything is possible. Lets see what comes next this is preety entertaining to me its like watching 2 children fighting for a toy.
the entire ratings idea has been completely fucked since the beginning, esp here in the us. i don't remember how many times as a young kid and teenager, buying any M rated game or R rated movie i wanted to. i'm betting in korea its a lot more strict, but still, i bet there is much worse material on cable TV there than in this game.
there is no way SCII is released with an AO rating. i know blizzard won't want to release an AO game anywhere, they would withdraw from releasing it in Korea before releasing it as an AO game. there are very, very few titles rated Adults Only and a company as high in notoriety as Blizz doesnt wanna be on that short list regardless if the rating is warranted or not.
On April 17 2010 07:15 Kralic wrote: Blizzard will just do what the UK had to do for some violent games, turn the blood green, take out swear words and put in a subliminal flash that goes across the screen that says "Kespa is always right." Then Kespa might approve of it and slap on the E rating.
What games would that be ? Lol, I don't think we have ever had violent games toned down :S
so basically they're putting SCII up there with Manhunt and GTA, which are give or take for arguments sake 100% about murdering people in a realistic setting, compared to SC, which is cartoon violence in an obviously fictional setting. it just doesnt add up, its ridiculous.
On April 17 2010 08:31 SkelA wrote: Its Blizzard fault because they wanna meddle in Kespa affairs. Kespa just reacts in really defensive way making Blizzard lose big profits in Korea. Kespa by definition is Korean e-Sports Players Association so they care only about Korea and think they got legal rights over BW because they got license from Blizzard long time ago so Blizzard cant do shit about BW progaming.
I say leave Kespa alone they provide us great entertaiment and yea they treat their players really bad but i dont really care about that as long there is tons of great games to be watched . Even if they manage some agreement about SC2 progaming in Korea i wont watch the games because honestly SC2 is not entertaining to watch like BW.
If Blizzard wanna develop esports around the world let them make their own association for example Bespa ( Blizzard e-Sports Players Association ) or something similar to that if they really cared about esports which i really doubt it. Invest 0.1% of your multibillion wow industry cash machine for SC2 progaming but no they want free money bullying Kepsa of their hard earned money.
The decision is preety "stupid" considering BW is basicly the same but when politics and money are involved everything is possible. Lets see what comes next this is preety entertaining to me its like watching 2 children fighting for a toy.
A lot of garbage in one post. Fuck Korean E-sports quite frankly, its completely corrupt. The recent betting scandal is just tip of the iceberg. No one cares what you will watch. In a year only you and a dwindling amount of Koreans will be watching what's left of the BW scene. Starcraft peaked 2006 in Korea, it's dying and the recent scandal will just speed the process up.
Blizzard can do whatever they want with their own games. If they want to get money from others that profit from their game, then they are entitled to demand compensation for it.
On April 17 2010 08:31 SkelA wrote: Its Blizzard fault because they wanna meddle in Kespa affairs. Kespa just reacts in really defensive way making Blizzard lose big profits in Korea. Kespa by definition is Korean e-Sports Players Association so they care only about Korea and think they got legal rights over BW because they got license from Blizzard long time ago so Blizzard cant do shit about BW progaming.
I say leave Kespa alone they provide us great entertaiment and yea they treat their players really bad but i dont really care about that as long there is tons of great games to be watched . Even if they manage some agreement about SC2 progaming in Korea i wont watch the games because honestly SC2 is not entertaining to watch like BW.
If Blizzard wanna develop esports around the world let them make their own association for example Bespa ( Blizzard e-Sports Players Association ) or something similar to that if they really cared about esports which i really doubt it. Invest 0.1% of your multibillion wow industry cash machine for SC2 progaming but no they want free money bullying Kepsa of their hard earned money.
The decision is preety "stupid" considering BW is basicly the same but when politics and money are involved everything is possible. Lets see what comes next this is preety entertaining to me its like watching 2 children fighting for a toy.
Your post displays a shocking lack of comprehension of how the world works. There is no possible way that Kespa has in any sense legal rights over BW. At the most they are allowed to broadcast it (even though technically I don't think they're supposed to be allowed to), but there's absolutely no possible way anyone could imagine they have rights over BW.
How are they "bullying Kespa of their hard earned money"? It's incredibly standard to take a fee for things like this. They simply don't want Kespa leeching off something they put years and millions of dollars into developing. Kespa therefore turns to corruption and bribery (most likely, although it could just be simple Korean racism) in order to fuck Blizzard out of their hard-earned money.
Blizzard did invest money in GOM. Kespa again shut them down. Honestly, Kespa is just a corrupt organization that takes advantage of their privileged position to get a monopoly on Esports in Korea in any way they can. Esports would be much better off if they went away.
But, yeah, this is really stupid if the multiplayer is anything to go by...though to be fair, we haven't seen the single player campaign in full yet.
I don't think people understand what adult rating is. Very few games receive that, and those that do rarely gets released at all. Most stores refuses to sell games with adult rating.
Fuck Kespa. Kespa is an evil organization run by fucking idiots.
Seriously, I know I should act as a "good example" to newer members by writing a long, insightful post about why I dislike the actions by Kespa and what they can do to fix it. However, I have such a negative emotional reaction that I'm going to leave it as is, unadulterated by calm logic.
I know blizzard is very tedious about quality - but as far as these objections go, couldn't they be fixed bluntly and then adjusted in a future patch...
On April 17 2010 08:47 PianoMan wrote: Your post displays a shocking lack of comprehension of how the world works. There is no possible way that Kespa has in any sense legal rights over BW. At the most they are allowed to broadcast it (even though technically I don't think they're supposed to be allowed to), but there's absolutely no possible way anyone could imagine they have rights over BW.
How are they "bullying Kespa of their hard earned money"? It's incredibly standard to take a fee for things like this. They simply don't want Kespa leeching off something they put years and millions of dollars into developing. Kespa therefore turns to corruption and bribery (most likely, although it could just be simple Korean racism) in order to fuck Blizzard out of their hard-earned money.
Blizzard did invest money in GOM. Kespa again shut them down. Honestly, Kespa is just a corrupt organization that takes advantage of their privileged position to get a monopoly on Esports in Korea in any way they can. Esports would be much better off if they went away.
P i a n o M a n
No looks like you have no idea how the world works. Money rules the world. Kespa and Blizzard "fight" for the money. Kespa rules over BW in Korea because as I said they got every LEGAL right over BW because they bought the license from Blizzard for like no money like 10 years ago.
Now SC2 on the other hand Blizzard got every legal rights for it and demanding big cash for television broadcasting rights and Kespa is saying fuck off. Yea Kespa is a dick and its not fair but nothing in this world is fair. Corruption is everywhere nothing surprizing there too.
So yea in a ideal world Blizzard would kick Kespa ass but we are living on Earth right now.
On April 17 2010 09:00 Day[9] wrote: I'd like to add my two cents:
Fuck Kespa. Kespa is an evil organization run by fucking idiots.
Seriously, I know I should act as a "good example" to newer members by writing a long, insightful post about why I dislike the actions by Kespa and what they can do to fix it. However, I have such a negative emotional reaction that I'm going to leave it as is, unadulterated by calm logic.
Again, fuck Kespa.
Eloquent as ever.
This is what happens when you deal with an international scene. This kind of stuff can and will never occur in the US. I just wish we had enough of a fanbase in the US to make esports a big thing. But if something as retarded as Nascar can work in America, someone will figure out how to make SC2 work =D
On April 17 2010 08:47 PianoMan wrote: Your post displays a shocking lack of comprehension of how the world works. There is no possible way that Kespa has in any sense legal rights over BW. At the most they are allowed to broadcast it (even though technically I don't think they're supposed to be allowed to), but there's absolutely no possible way anyone could imagine they have rights over BW.
How are they "bullying Kespa of their hard earned money"? It's incredibly standard to take a fee for things like this. They simply don't want Kespa leeching off something they put years and millions of dollars into developing. Kespa therefore turns to corruption and bribery (most likely, although it could just be simple Korean racism) in order to fuck Blizzard out of their hard-earned money.
Blizzard did invest money in GOM. Kespa again shut them down. Honestly, Kespa is just a corrupt organization that takes advantage of their privileged position to get a monopoly on Esports in Korea in any way they can. Esports would be much better off if they went away.
P i a n o M a n
No looks like you have no idea how the world works. Money rules the world. Kespa and Blizzard "fight" for the money. Kespa rules over BW in Korea because as I said they got every LEGAL right over BW because they bought the license from Blizzard for like no money like 10 years ago.
Now SC2 on the other hand Blizzard got every legal rights for it and demanding big cash for television broadcasting rights and Kespa is saying fuck off. Yea Kespa is a dick and its not fair but nothing in this world is fair. Corruption is everywhere nothing surprizing there too.
So yea in a ideal world Blizzard would kick Kespa ass but we are living on Earth right now.
So from your post, you believe the world is corrupted and we should accept the corrupt world as it is. If everyone as the mentality as you do, then it would be a very scary world today.
On April 17 2010 09:02 OuCH. wrote: day[9] you should cast the usa vs korea, thanks
Is anyone associated with TL going to cast that?
The guy casting the stream on Justin.TV this morning had no idea about how anything worked in SC2, he was a WC3 commentator and much more comfortable with that game.
On April 17 2010 09:03 gogogadgetflow wrote: I know blizzard is very tedious about quality - but as far as these objections go, couldn't they be fixed bluntly and then adjusted in a future patch...
This have nothing to do about content. Even if they changed all units to pink unicorns and removed the ability to attack, KeSPA could still make sure it didn't get anything lower than adult rating.
Blizzard won't play their game. I doubt it. I think if Blizzard has to say "screw Korea" at one point they will do it. Even if BW was "THE SHIT" in Korea, SC2 is a new beginning and Korea or no Korea, SC2 will be big.
This is getting ridiculous, if they give starcraft 2 A/O rating, What about the current Starcraft? Would proleague, osl, and etc. be restricted to only adult audience? Would they stop the minor from playing starcraft as well? HELL NO! because they making so much money off it. I'm just so damn angry right now because starcraft 2 has so much potential as an e-sport and being held back/delay by greedy ass big corp.
On April 17 2010 09:00 Day[9] wrote: I'd like to add my two cents:
Fuck Kespa. Kespa is an evil organization run by fucking idiots.
Seriously, I know I should act as a "good example" to newer members by writing a long, insightful post about why I dislike the actions by Kespa and what they can do to fix it. However, I have such a negative emotional reaction that I'm going to leave it as is, unadulterated by calm logic.
Again, fuck Kespa.
Totally agree, and your post at least is a bit better than people who just say "lol". Day[9] showing again he is a cool dude who knows stuff well.
On April 17 2010 08:47 PianoMan wrote: Your post displays a shocking lack of comprehension of how the world works. There is no possible way that Kespa has in any sense legal rights over BW. At the most they are allowed to broadcast it (even though technically I don't think they're supposed to be allowed to), but there's absolutely no possible way anyone could imagine they have rights over BW.
How are they "bullying Kespa of their hard earned money"? It's incredibly standard to take a fee for things like this. They simply don't want Kespa leeching off something they put years and millions of dollars into developing. Kespa therefore turns to corruption and bribery (most likely, although it could just be simple Korean racism) in order to fuck Blizzard out of their hard-earned money.
Blizzard did invest money in GOM. Kespa again shut them down. Honestly, Kespa is just a corrupt organization that takes advantage of their privileged position to get a monopoly on Esports in Korea in any way they can. Esports would be much better off if they went away.
P i a n o M a n
No looks like you have no idea how the world works. Money rules the world. Kespa and Blizzard "fight" for the money. Kespa rules over BW in Korea because as I said they got every LEGAL right over BW because they bought the license from Blizzard for like no money like 10 years ago.
Now SC2 on the other hand Blizzard got every legal rights for it and demanding big cash for television broadcasting rights and Kespa is saying fuck off. Yea Kespa is a dick and its not fair but nothing in this world is fair. Corruption is everywhere nothing surprizing there too.
So yea in a ideal world Blizzard would kick Kespa ass but we are living on Earth right now.
You're an idiot--obviously it's all about money, how did you misinterpret my post so much to make you think I thought it was about something other than money? (and what else could I possibly think it was about?!).
I looked it up in some vague googling sense (not exactly easy to check the actual true legal status of this stuff in Korea), and perhaps Kespa does indeed have broadcasting rights for BW, but that's not remotely the point here since I don't think anyone really thinks that SC2 is the same game as BW.
Blizzard has a perfect right to demand a fee for broadcasting their game, and Kespa has a perfect right to deny to pay that fee (and thus not broadcast it). They do not, however, have a right to corruptly affect the government so that others cannot choose to pay the fee and broadcast the game, as they are trying to do.
Kespa is like a bunch of kids, and if they can't have it their way, they'll just ensure no one else can either.
KeSpa is really good at creating trouble. Since a lot of new members are joining these days: Usually you shouldn't post oneliners or equal dumb things, but there's just not more I want to mention concerning KeSpa.
On April 17 2010 09:17 G.s)NarutO wrote: KeSpa is really good at creating trouble. Since a lot of new members are joining these days: Usually you shouldn't post oneliners or equal dumb things, but there's just not more I want to mention concerning KeSpa.
On April 17 2010 07:15 Kralic wrote: Blizzard will just do what the UK had to do for some violent games, turn the blood green, take out swear words and put in a subliminal flash that goes across the screen that says "Kespa is always right." Then Kespa might approve of it and slap on the E rating.
What games would that be ? Lol, I don't think we have ever had violent games toned down :S
On April 17 2010 09:22 SkelA wrote: P i a n o M a n why do you start with the insults did i insulted you till now. If you have nothing else smart to say then dont say anything at all
So you called me Idiot and after somewhat saying that im right. Im kinda confused right now
I called you an idiot because you told me I had no idea how the world works, then said the world works in a way that was completely in line with what I had said in my post.
Your response to me wasn't that wrong from describing the situation in Korea, as you just essentially said it was about money and there is corruption (which I never disputed). The part that was idiotic was your original post that I responded to.
I said that perhaps you are right about them being allowed to broadcast BW (which was a tangent unrelated to the topic anyway), but I never said you are kind of right about other things.
By the way, originally you said
Its Blizzard fault because they wanna meddle in Kespa affairs
. And in response to me, you said
So yea in a ideal world Blizzard would kick Kespa ass but we are living on Earth right now.
A lot of stuff kespa does sucks but I'm not sure why they are being implicated here. It's pretty common for ratings boards to be full of old people that lag behind the times. Happens with movies all the time in the US/Canada and I imagine it could be very similar in Korea. Is there anything that ties this to kespa besides the OP wondering "or is it a move initiated by KeSPA"?
what a lot of you dont seem to get is that this action doesnt affect evil greedy blizzard, but the fans and players of starcraft in korea and maybe around the world (because we miss out on game evolution by progamers maybe).
Blizzards money comes from sales alone, and people will buy the game sooner or later, what this action is trying to achieve is destroying the fanbase of sc2 in korea by letting them wait much longer for the release than the rest of the world. I doubt it will really work though.
On April 17 2010 09:26 GogoKodo wrote: A lot of stuff kespa does sucks but I'm not sure why they are being implicated here. It's pretty common for ratings boards to be full of old people that lag behind the times. Happens with movies all the time in the US/Canada and I imagine it could be very similar in Korea. Is there anything that ties this to kespa besides the OP wondering "or is it a move initiated by KeSPA"?
Kespa sucks.
sure, but since Brood War is kind of the national sport of Korea and (at least in my opinion) more violent etc than sc2 it's a really weird decision
Very clever play by Kespa. Blizzards last high aggression move of giving all PC Bangs copies of the game has just been countered perfectly. The Blizzard/Kespa meta-game is amazing. lol.
Couldn't the Korean SC2 fan send a signed petition to the government to change this ridiculous decision? If there's enough people upset about this, the government would have to yield. I mean, it's just a game after all, would it be worth risking votes?
On April 17 2010 08:47 PianoMan wrote: Your post displays a shocking lack of comprehension of how the world works. There is no possible way that Kespa has in any sense legal rights over BW. At the most they are allowed to broadcast it (even though technically I don't think they're supposed to be allowed to), but there's absolutely no possible way anyone could imagine they have rights over BW.
You talk about something you have no understanding and i just point out it to you that you are wrong.So you got nothing else to say and start with the insults gj,
Some of my responses are little biased towards Kespa because lets face it BW is(was) still alive only because of korean progaming.If only Blizzard was in command we would still play lost temple for 10 years like war3. I already said that Blizzard are the good guys and Kespa are the evil SC2 hatin organisation
On April 17 2010 09:32 semantics wrote: kerrigan and raynor have sex? that was a good map
Pre-tentacles or Post Tentacles? I am sure pre would be wrong in many politicians books.
ionno but it's a great map abusing the stock sounds esp the medic ding for an orgasm lol not very good on the visuals just units shaking back and forth but still hilarious.
Looks like KeSPA posted their April Fools a little late this year. Seriously, this is an absolute joke. It is going to be devastating to Blizzard in the short-term. Sure, a lot of parents will buy it for their kids, especially as the generation of current progammers takes the helm, but for kids with non-gammer educated parents, this will be an insurmountable obstacle. I know that my parents wouldn't buy WC3 for me with its T rating when I was about 13 or 14, and I needed my brother to go out and but D2 for me, but with an AO rating on SC2, this will seriously hurt sales in Korea. Over time it will find it's way into the hands of every gamer who wants a copy of the game, but it will probably take months if not longer to bypass this stupid move my KeSPA. Blizzard had better get their objection up in the next week so they have time to negotiate with these fools to bring it back to a reasonable rating.
On April 17 2010 08:31 SkelA wrote: Its Blizzard fault because they wanna meddle in Kespa affairs. Kespa just reacts in really defensive way making Blizzard lose big profits in Korea. Kespa by definition is Korean e-Sports Players Association so they care only about Korea and think they got legal rights over BW because they got license from Blizzard long time ago so Blizzard cant do shit about BW progaming.
I say leave Kespa alone they provide us great entertaiment and yea they treat their players really bad but i dont really care about that as long there is tons of great games to be watched . Even if they manage some agreement about SC2 progaming in Korea i wont watch the games because honestly SC2 is not entertaining to watch like BW.
If Blizzard wanna develop esports around the world let them make their own association for example Bespa ( Blizzard e-Sports Players Association ) or something similar to that if they really cared about esports which i really doubt it. Invest 0.1% of your multibillion wow industry cash machine for SC2 progaming but no they want free money bullying Kepsa of their hard earned money.
The decision is preety "stupid" considering BW is basicly the same but when politics and money are involved everything is possible. Lets see what comes next this is preety entertaining to me its like watching 2 children fighting for a toy.
"Honestly, SC2 is more entertaining to watch than BW" That's my opinion, and I also think Korean will miss out on SC2 because of this feud. Blizzard has every right to get their hand in the Starcraft 2 esport, because it is their intellectual proprety. They aren't bullying Kespa, it's Kespa being stuborn like a child. I wouldn't mind if Blizzard started their own ESPORT league, like they've tried in the past, but Kespa is very defensive. Kespa won't allow anyone to compete with them in Korea.
This rating of SC2 is not fair. Kespa should be ashamed. The SC2 fan in Korean should place a complaint.
On April 17 2010 09:17 G.s)NarutO wrote: KeSpa is really good at creating trouble. Since a lot of new members are joining these days: Usually you shouldn't post oneliners or equal dumb things, but there's just not more I want to mention concerning KeSpa.
here a one liner, KeSpa can suck on my balls.
as a veteran poster of these boards i think thats a oneliner we can all agree with
the problem with kespa is that they have never actually done anything for progaming and yet they sit there leeching money of something they never had any part in building because at one point managed to mysteriously assume control of it.
on the contrary to ever helping starcraft in korea, on numerous occasions theyve attempted to kill it off because they decided they wanted to milk it even harder. Progaming and starcraft in korea would be in a MUCH MUCH better place if kespa never existed
now its kind of funny that blizzard is trying to rescue progaming and kespa would rather go down with the ship than give up the total control it has now
lol @ the naive comments about how KeSPA keeps Starcraft alive. /facepalm. Funny, I as well as others have been watching competitive Starcraft way back when it was only available as obscure streaming tournament in Korea. With players such as IntoTheRain, XD'Grr.
However, that is absolutely stupid. It's bleeding obvious that SCII isn't an adult game. The only thing this would do is increase hype in SCII. I expect every kid in Korea to play this game when it launches.
Do you think it could be possible that KeSPA is actually using some twisted reverse-psychology to hype up the game with every intention of giving in to Blizzard's inevitable objection?
I wonder if Blizzard will consider the nuclear option - cease & desist against "unlicenced" SC broadcasters like OGN and MBC? Of course it's questionable if Blizzard could even enforce that if the Korean government doesn't agree. No wonder they don't want open LAN play in SC2.
Meh, sucks for them. SC2 is already huge in the American regions and Europe. Starcraft 2 could not even sell a single copy in Korea and it would still be extremely successful. It seems like Kespa still doesn't realize what an insignificant bit of the global scene they are.
It is not the KeSPA doing this shit. It is the thing called 'national game rating committee' doing it and kinda related to KeSPA but not entirely. This committee is also doing things like 'automatic time out at 12am' for ALL online games for teenagers. They just started for some online games such as Maplestory. Anyway I thinks it is just a warning from KeSPA to Blizzard that who is in control of e-sports in Korea, which I think Blizzard will eventually win. Committee will make it +15 later on anyway also.
On April 17 2010 10:31 Tanatos wrote: It is not the KeSPA doing this shit. It is the thing called 'national game rating committee' doing it and kinda related to KeSPA but not entirely. This committee is also doing things like 'automatic time out at 12am' for ALL online games for teenagers. They just started for some online games such as Maplestory. Anyway I thinks it is just a warning from KeSPA to Blizzard that who is in control of e-sports in Korea, which I think Blizzard will eventually win. Committee will make it +15 later on anyway also.
Your post is completely contradictory. You start by saying that is's not KeSPA that did this, then you said that it is a warning from KeSPA to Blizzard, implying that they did do this. I don't understand what you are trying to say. KeSPA effectively owns all eSports in Korea. There is no doubt that they had some hand in this.
There are actually some pretty gruesome death animations in SC2, especially marines getting literally sliced in half by Dark Templar or stuff burning to death.
On April 17 2010 10:31 Tanatos wrote: It is not the KeSPA doing this shit. It is the thing called 'national game rating committee' doing it and kinda related to KeSPA but not entirely. This committee is also doing things like 'automatic time out at 12am' for ALL online games for teenagers. They just started for some online games such as Maplestory. Anyway I thinks it is just a warning from KeSPA to Blizzard that who is in control of e-sports in Korea, which I think Blizzard will eventually win. Committee will make it +15 later on anyway also.
Your post is completely contradictory. You start by saying that is's not KeSPA that did this, then you said that it is a warning from KeSPA to Blizzard, implying that they did do this. I don't understand what you are trying to say. KeSPA effectively owns all eSports in Korea. There is no doubt that they had some hand in this.
Yap. I think I didn't clearly explained. First, committee and KeSPA are not diretly connected. committee is under government control and KeSPA is not. Second, i believe somehow KeSPA and committee have shared interest and committee is sided with KeSPA. So, my second statement from origianl quote is just my guessing
Oh, they call it Game Rating Board. my bad on that
On April 17 2010 10:31 Tanatos wrote: It is not the KeSPA doing this shit. It is the thing called 'national game rating committee' doing it and kinda related to KeSPA but not entirely. This committee is also doing things like 'automatic time out at 12am' for ALL online games for teenagers. They just started for some online games such as Maplestory. Anyway I thinks it is just a warning from KeSPA to Blizzard that who is in control of e-sports in Korea, which I think Blizzard will eventually win. Committee will make it +15 later on anyway also.
Your post is completely contradictory. You start by saying that is's not KeSPA that did this, then you said that it is a warning from KeSPA to Blizzard, implying that they did do this. I don't understand what you are trying to say. KeSPA effectively owns all eSports in Korea. There is no doubt that they had some hand in this.
Yap. I think I didn't clearly explained. First, committee and KeSPA are not diretly connected. committee is under government control and KeSPA is not. Second, i believe somehow KeSPA and committee have shared interest and committee is sided with KeSPA. So, my second statement from origianl quote is just my guessing
Oh, they call it Game Rating Board. my bad on that
Yes, I think this is about right. The two organizations are independent of each other in every official sense, but I can say confidently that KeSPA almost certainly had a hand in this decision by the board.
On April 17 2010 10:38 Seacow wrote: There are actually some pretty gruesome death animations in SC2, especially marines getting literally sliced in half by Dark Templar or stuff burning to death.
I'm still not convinced. Marines were decapitated in BW, and most Zerg units exploded. This rating seems completely unnecessary to me.
On April 17 2010 10:31 Tanatos wrote: It is not the KeSPA doing this shit. It is the thing called 'national game rating committee' doing it and kinda related to KeSPA but not entirely. This committee is also doing things like 'automatic time out at 12am' for ALL online games for teenagers. They just started for some online games such as Maplestory. Anyway I thinks it is just a warning from KeSPA to Blizzard that who is in control of e-sports in Korea, which I think Blizzard will eventually win. Committee will make it +15 later on anyway also.
Your post is completely contradictory. You start by saying that is's not KeSPA that did this, then you said that it is a warning from KeSPA to Blizzard, implying that they did do this. I don't understand what you are trying to say. KeSPA effectively owns all eSports in Korea. There is no doubt that they had some hand in this.
Yap. I think I didn't clearly explained. First, committee and KeSPA are not diretly connected. committee is under government control and KeSPA is not. Second, i believe somehow KeSPA and committee have shared interest and committee is sided with KeSPA. So, my second statement from origianl quote is just my guessing
Oh, they call it Game Rating Board. my bad on that
Yes, I think this is about right. The two organizations are independent of each other in every official sense, but I can say confidently that KeSPA almost certainly had a hand in this decision by the board.
On April 17 2010 10:38 Seacow wrote: There are actually some pretty gruesome death animations in SC2, especially marines getting literally sliced in half by Dark Templar or stuff burning to death.
I'm still not convinced. Marines were decapitated in BW, and most Zerg units exploded. This rating seems completely unnecessary to me.
Adult rating is usually for hardcore games with sex and extreme violent. SC2 has some violence, but it's nothing shocking. If Kespa has nothing to do with this, could it be that Korea is afraid that SC2 will be so good that school grades will fall? Amusingly enough, it seems likely ;P
If KeSPA wants win this battle over e-sports, they better make some new RTS games. Right now there's only two Proleagues they are supporting, the BW and the Special Force(FPS), and SF is not doing well as BW and BW won't last forever. They abandoned W3 because of, of course, corruption that was found. Game company in Korea is not interested in making package game due to well developed network environment They better stop making another amazing MMOs. It's flooding really.
Can't Blizzard just be like, hey, kespa, you can no longer use SC stuff without our permission, and then bankrupt them? If I was Blizzard I would just buttrape them fiscally, but yeah
On April 17 2010 11:03 Vei wrote: Can't Blizzard just be like, hey, kespa, you can no longer use SC stuff without our permission, and then bankrupt them? If I was Blizzard I would just buttrape them fiscally, but yeah
This is assuming South Korea chooses to enforce Blizzard's request. If Blizzard just now said "okay, no more BW for you," do you really think it would be enforced?
On April 17 2010 11:03 Vei wrote: Can't Blizzard just be like, hey, kespa, you can no longer use SC stuff without our permission, and then bankrupt them? If I was Blizzard I would just buttrape them fiscally, but yeah
This is assuming South Korea chooses to enforce Blizzard's request. If Blizzard just now said "okay, no more BW for you," do you really think it would be enforced?
I've read previously that in Korea, owning a copy of a game is enough to legally broadcast any game you play over a LAN. I don't remember which thread it was in exactly, but it was in one of the threads here on TL talking about SC2 not having LAN. (Also, the person who said it didn't cite a source, so I can't really guarantee accuracy, but it made sense to me so I believed him. )
E-sports doesn't need KESPA to be successful. The fans are already organizing their own tournaments, and their finding corporate sponsors for them as well (Just look at the HDH invitational). Times are changing, and E-sports have been around for a while now. KESPA would have been a booster for SC2's success as a spectator game, but it is certainly no longer a requirement.
I never manage to understand the logic in "protecting" children from bloodsplatter and whatnot in the first place.
So starcraft/broodwar was fine because stuff just died? And death is something that clearly won't affect young children, hundreds of their little fantasy characters running into a blanket of siege fire and getting terminated is just something that is pretty natural. But now in starcraft 2, things break apart and bleed when it dies! That clearly is unacceptable, death sure but living beings containing blood? Thats fucking over the line right there, that will mess kids up... -.-
lol, they add a language filter on sc2 that filters basically everything, even words that shouldn't be filtered(such as 'gay'). And the Korean Ratings Board slaps an adult rating on it? Come on...drug use was in sc1 too, and that wasn't rated adult, pretty much every single terran marine/general/ghost smoked, threw their cigars on the ground, themes of suicide at the end of the terran missions, and language. Unless Kespa is looking at cinematics that I'm not, then this is just stupid. And a year to re-review it, if they make appropriate changes?? Really? How can it take a year to review like 13 minutes of cinematics and a couple simple death animations.
There seems to be a lot of talk of KeSPA involvement with this decision. Do we have any sources to back this up or is that just an assumption many are making? I don't disagree that KeSPA may be involved, but I would like to see such a claim backed up. Is there something I missed?
On April 17 2010 08:22 LaNague wrote: well, this doesnt hurt blizzard who dont really profit from progaming in korea and im sure they are working on a "clean" version of sc2 for other countries like germany anyways.
So the only thing this does is delaying potential sc2 progaming in korea for a few months. Oh that and probably summoning the wrath of blizzard, whatever form that has.
I thought one of the biggest reasons was kespa not agreeing to pay the excessive licensing fee that they pay for SC1 that Blizzard is demanding for SC2 so it should be quite a bit of cash they make from Korea.
They don't pay anything for SC1.
>0 is not excessive. I think its rather reasonable.
has anyone part of a business ever actually bought software? that can get excessive. i don't care what blizzard is asking for licensing, it's not excessive.
the man-hours put into sc2 is crazy, such that even 100k licensing would be an incredibly low figure.
I'm curious as to if this relates to the single player campaign or multiplayer. Surely it can't be multiplayer, which is somewhat tame compared to BW. Blizz can probably just tame down some single player stuff and be okay.
What is with all the KESPA bashing? They are not even mentioned in the article. It says the decision was made by Korea's Game Rating Board. I'm fairly certain the two are not connected at all.
You honestly think KESPA would make a decision like this? It looks wholly like a political move.
On April 17 2010 12:01 Mallard wrote: What is with all the KESPA bashing? They are not even mentioned in the article. It says the decision was made by Korea's Game Rating Board. I'm fairly certain the two are not connected at all.
You honestly think KESPA would make a decision like this? It looks wholly like a political move.
kespa is the devil for a lot of people, that's why there is the possibility that they are involved in this somehow. Anyway what ever.
On April 17 2010 12:01 Mallard wrote: What is with all the KESPA bashing? They are not even mentioned in the article. It says the decision was made by Korea's Game Rating Board. I'm fairly certain the two are not connected at all.
You honestly think KESPA would make a decision like this? It looks wholly like a political move.
Can't say I'm well informed either but when KESPA and Blizzard's negotiations over the SC2 rights broke down people were really worried that they would use their connections with the game rating board to slap it with an adult-only rating, thereby dooming any form of televised SC2 matches. The fact that it's actually happened now doesn't immediately scream KESPA but it's pretty neat to see the speculation back then turn out to actually happen. KESPA or not though, it's clearly a shady ruling seeing as how there is no more gore in SC2 than there was in SC1.
On April 17 2010 12:34 G3nXsiS wrote: Just make a modified Korean Version. Not that hard blizzard.
Took them over 10 years to make the game. Modifying it will take more time and gamers aren't necessarily happy about paying for a dumbed down version of the original game. Also if Kespa is involved they would be doing what Kespa wants which Blizzard doesn't want to.
this has to be political, from what i've seen the starcraft 2 multiplayer isn't much gorier than starcraft 1, if anything it is less gorier. Unless it has to do with the story mode, which i haven't seen.
So I would imagine that this rating would cover everything from skirmish to the campaign/story mode, meaning the game is certainly finished at this point. Can anyone confirm this?
I would expect Blizzard to modify the game like they did WoW for China, and like Valve did for TF2 in Germany, and L4D2 in Australia. That is if they cannot get the decision changed.
It would definitely delay the game in Korea, a year is probably a gross overestimate though.
They should do what Valve did for TF2, change stimpacks into a cheeseburger. XD
I doubt Blizzard will budge from this type of pressure from KesPA. Although this type of curruption/collusion in business is widespread in Asia, the Western world hates it, especially when it is done in such an arrogant, "you can't touch me" way.
KesPA dropped the nuke but I don't think that the kids in Korea will care in the slightest. They will get their older friends and family to buy the game for them. Blizzard could even consider a digital download service.
On April 17 2010 12:01 Mallard wrote: What is with all the KESPA bashing? They are not even mentioned in the article. It says the decision was made by Korea's Game Rating Board. I'm fairly certain the two are not connected at all.
You honestly think KESPA would make a decision like this? It looks wholly like a political move.
I have a feeling this wouldn't have happened if blizzard had given kespa all the rights they wanted with SC2.
On April 17 2010 08:22 LaNague wrote: well, this doesnt hurt blizzard who dont really profit from progaming in korea and im sure they are working on a "clean" version of sc2 for other countries like germany anyways.
So the only thing this does is delaying potential sc2 progaming in korea for a few months. Oh that and probably summoning the wrath of blizzard, whatever form that has.
I thought one of the biggest reasons was kespa not agreeing to pay the excessive licensing fee that they pay for SC1 that Blizzard is demanding for SC2 so it should be quite a bit of cash they make from Korea.
They don't pay anything for SC1.
>0 is not excessive. I think its rather reasonable.
Uh yes they do, kespa bought broadcasting rights for SC1. Some of you should take into consideration that kespa has kept progaming alive all these years, while blizzard did nothing and stayed out of it. Now suddenly they realize there's a profit so they try and get involved and do stupid shit like removing lan play. So they say they are making SC2 'e-sports friendly' but then alienate the biggest e-sports organization and remove lan play? I'd rather they just stay out of it and stick to what they know, making games and keeping bnet2 good for all the average players and leave the progaming to the people who have ran it all these years.
kespa has no right to sc2. blizzard can do whatever they want with the title. if a developer makes money off their game being an esport, that's great for esports. i'm not interested in kespa crying about the hard work they've put into esports when all they're really crying about is the loss of power and revenue. as for the korean rating board, sounds like a bunch of corrupt fools.
On April 17 2010 08:22 LaNague wrote: well, this doesnt hurt blizzard who dont really profit from progaming in korea and im sure they are working on a "clean" version of sc2 for other countries like germany anyways.
So the only thing this does is delaying potential sc2 progaming in korea for a few months. Oh that and probably summoning the wrath of blizzard, whatever form that has.
I thought one of the biggest reasons was kespa not agreeing to pay the excessive licensing fee that they pay for SC1 that Blizzard is demanding for SC2 so it should be quite a bit of cash they make from Korea.
They don't pay anything for SC1.
>0 is not excessive. I think its rather reasonable.
Uh yes they do, kespa bought broadcasting rights for SC1. Some of you should take into consideration that kespa has kept progaming alive all these years, while blizzard did nothing and stayed out of it. Now suddenly they realize there's a profit so they try and get involved and do stupid shit like removing lan play. So they say they are making SC2 'e-sports friendly' but then alienate the biggest e-sports organization and remove lan play? I'd rather they just stay out of it and stick to what they know, making games and keeping bnet2 good for all the average players and leave the progaming to the people who have ran it all these years.
You might recall that the "K" in KeSPA stands for Korean. As in, a very small part of the world. Blizzard has greater intentions and aspirations for SC2 than just Korea.
Korea may have been the cradle of eSports. But one cannot remain in the cradle forever. And if KeSPA doesn't want to be a part of that, fine; Blizzard and the rest of the world can kick them to the curb.
On April 17 2010 15:15 Whyx wrote: This is as bad as Austrailia's rating system
Please. Australia would have banned it. This is far from a ban.
Brood War was also rated adult only for a period, so they just released a "teen" version (I think they released one in germany too) which had green blood and got a 15+ rating. Later they changed the rating for Brood War because it was so popular but that's another story.
In any case it's not too much work for Blizz to make a less violent version.
On April 17 2010 15:31 NicolBolas wrote: You might recall that the "K" in KeSPA stands for Korean. As in, a very small part of the world. Blizzard has greater intentions and aspirations for SC2 than just Korea.
Korea may have been the cradle of eSports. But one cannot remain in the cradle forever. And if KeSPA doesn't want to be a part of that, fine; Blizzard and the rest of the world can kick them to the curb.
You seem to be under the impression that e-sports is actually going to be popular in the mainstream anywhere else though, and that blizzards intentions are any more noble than Kespa's. This is the company that charges $25 for pets in WoW, they aren't interested in furthering e-sports unless it involves more money for them otherwise they would just leave the Korean proscene to continue as it was. I'm pretty sure Kespa doesn't care if the rest of the world plays SC2, when they have BW which is a tried and tested balanced game which is spectator friendly, and already has all the personalities which make people keep watching over there in the first place.
On April 17 2010 15:31 NicolBolas wrote: You might recall that the "K" in KeSPA stands for Korean. As in, a very small part of the world. Blizzard has greater intentions and aspirations for SC2 than just Korea.
Korea may have been the cradle of eSports. But one cannot remain in the cradle forever. And if KeSPA doesn't want to be a part of that, fine; Blizzard and the rest of the world can kick them to the curb.
You seem to be under the impression that e-sports is actually going to be popular in the mainstream anywhere else though, and that blizzards intentions are any more noble than Kespa's. This is the company that charges $25 for pets in WoW, they aren't interested in furthering e-sports unless it involves more money for them otherwise they would just leave the Korean proscene to continue as it was. I'm pretty sure Kespa doesn't care if the rest of the world plays SC2, when they have BW which is a tried and tested balanced game which is spectator friendly, and already has all the personalities which make people keep watching over there in the first place.
StarCraft II doesn't have to be "popular in the mainstream;" the rest of the world is so big that even a niche market is huge.
People are able to make a living these days producing funny videos in their apartments/homes by catering to a niche audience. Why? Because the Internet is very big. The larger the total market, the larger the niches are.
Blizzard would very much like to have SC2 in daily news reports on the major networks. But I'm pretty sure they'd be happy with a couple of hours a week on G4 showing SC2 matches with commentary.
Also, BW is in a bad place right now, what with the illegal match fixing running rampant through it. And even if it wasn't, it was already declining in popularity and audience.
As others have mentioned, this decision by Kespa seems too coincidental in lieu of being a just decision by the Ministry. SCII open beta is announced, and shortly after, is rated adult just seems too suspicious to me.
Blizzard doesn't give a damn about e-sports. They won't put money in it and take the risk of losing a lot of cash if it doesn't take off in the US which it probably won't.
Activision/Blizzard's idea of risk is making Call of Duty 6, 7, and 8. There's a reason they just add a number after every one of their games.
If any of you guys truthfully really cared about being able to make a meaningful wage playing a video game you would be behind Kespa 110%.
On April 17 2010 16:18 zizzefex wrote: Blizzard doesn't give a damn about e-sports. They won't put money in it and take the risk of losing a lot of cash if it doesn't take off in the US which it probably won't.
Activision/Blizzard's idea of risk is making Call of Duty 6, 7, and 8. There's a reason they just add a number after every one of their games.
If any of you guys truthfully really cared about being able to make a meaningful wage playing a video game you would be behind Kespa 110%.
Kespa is about Korea only. if you want a "meaningful wage" you want international exposer not just Korean. Hence why Warcraft3 did so well in e-sports because of its much larger international appeal and players. Yet still had excellent wages for its top players. (ex: Moon who was and still is makin 6 figures aswell)
On April 17 2010 12:01 Mallard wrote: What is with all the KESPA bashing? They are not even mentioned in the article. It says the decision was made by Korea's Game Rating Board. I'm fairly certain the two are not connected at all.
You honestly think KESPA would make a decision like this? It looks wholly like a political move.
It was probably KESPA behind the scenes connections that influenced this ruling. By no means is SC2 an excessively violent or bloody game that warrants an adult rating - even for Korean standards. If SC2 deserves an adult rating in Korea, I can't imagine about all the other games that are much more violent and bloody that SC2 that don't have an adult rating in Korea.
isint ther filters (atleast for language) to filter shit out? and why are this asain country so into stuff like this that it currupts there youth and what not?
On April 17 2010 15:45 Waxangel wrote: Mostly meaningless.
Brood War was also rated adult only for a period, so they just released a "teen" version (I think they released one in germany too) which had green blood and got a 15+ rating. Later they changed the rating for Brood War because it was so popular but that's another story.
In any case it's not too much work for Blizz to make a less violent version.
I hope you're right because I got super angry when I read this, thought that KeSPA was throwing this as a way to keep BW over SC2 over there.
On April 17 2010 16:18 zizzefex wrote: Blizzard doesn't give a damn about e-sports. They won't put money in it and take the risk of losing a lot of cash if it doesn't take off in the US which it probably won't.
Activision/Blizzard's idea of risk is making Call of Duty 6, 7, and 8. There's a reason they just add a number after every one of their games.
If any of you guys truthfully really cared about being able to make a meaningful wage playing a video game you would be behind Kespa 110%.
Kespa is about Korea only. if you want a "meaningful wage" you want international exposer not just Korean. Hence why Warcraft3 did so well in e-sports because of its much larger international appeal and players. Yet still had excellent wages for its top players. (ex: Moon who was and still is makin 6 figures aswell)
WC3 did not have excellent wages compared to Korean SC wages. You could barely classify WC3 as professional by Korean definition imo.
On April 17 2010 15:15 Whyx wrote: This is as bad as Austrailia's rating system
I live in Australia and I think our policy is crap. There's no R18+ rating so games rating higher than MA15+ is banned automatically. It would be ironic if Australia get SC2 and not Korea. I don't care about pros playing SC2, as long as i can play, that would be fine. TL coverage of SC2 beta is already top notch anyway.
On April 17 2010 14:52 infinity2k9 wrote: Uh yes they do, kespa bought broadcasting rights for SC1. Some of you should take into consideration that kespa has kept progaming alive all these years, while blizzard did nothing and stayed out of it. Now suddenly they realize there's a profit so they try and get involved and do stupid shit like removing lan play. So they say they are making SC2 'e-sports friendly' but then alienate the biggest e-sports organization and remove lan play? I'd rather they just stay out of it and stick to what they know, making games and keeping bnet2 good for all the average players and leave the progaming to the people who have ran it all these years.
Actually, Kespa has done very little to "keep progaming alive". It didn't exist for a large portion of Korean progaming history (and it's very debatable whether it changed for the better while it was around).
WC3 did not have excellent wages compared to Korean SC wages. You could barely classify WC3 as professional by Korean definition imo.
sure it did, the top players in WC3 were making just as much as the top players in SC were via salary, its not like every SC gamer on a team is making big money at all... Theres only a few just like WC3.
On April 17 2010 16:18 zizzefex wrote: Blizzard doesn't give a damn about e-sports. They won't put money in it and take the risk of losing a lot of cash if it doesn't take off in the US which it probably won't.
Activision/Blizzard's idea of risk is making Call of Duty 6, 7, and 8. There's a reason they just add a number after every one of their games.
If any of you guys truthfully really cared about being able to make a meaningful wage playing a video game you would be behind Kespa 110%.
Kespa is about Korea only. if you want a "meaningful wage" you want international exposer not just Korean. Hence why Warcraft3 did so well in e-sports because of its much larger international appeal and players. Yet still had excellent wages for its top players. (ex: Moon who was and still is makin 6 figures aswell)
WC3 did not have excellent wages compared to Korean SC wages. You could barely classify WC3 as professional by Korean definition imo.
Why are people complaining about kespa? Afaik this has nothing to do with kespa as it is the Korean Game Rating Board that calls the shots. Haters will hate i guess.
On April 17 2010 18:15 drlame wrote: Why are people complaining about kespa? Afaik this has nothing to do with kespa as it is the Korean Game Rating Board that calls the shots. Haters will hate i guess.
On April 17 2010 18:15 drlame wrote: Why are people complaining about kespa? Afaik this has nothing to do with kespa as it is the Korean Game Rating Board that calls the shots. Haters will hate i guess.
On April 17 2010 16:18 zizzefex wrote: Blizzard doesn't give a damn about e-sports. They won't put money in it and take the risk of losing a lot of cash if it doesn't take off in the US which it probably won't.
Activision/Blizzard's idea of risk is making Call of Duty 6, 7, and 8. There's a reason they just add a number after every one of their games.
If any of you guys truthfully really cared about being able to make a meaningful wage playing a video game you would be behind Kespa 110%.
Kespa is about Korea only. if you want a "meaningful wage" you want international exposer not just Korean. Hence why Warcraft3 did so well in e-sports because of its much larger international appeal and players. Yet still had excellent wages for its top players. (ex: Moon who was and still is makin 6 figures aswell)
WC3 did not have excellent wages compared to Korean SC wages. You could barely classify WC3 as professional by Korean definition imo.
Isnt Moon the best payed progamer of all time?
WC3 had only a select few people who got paid well for a meaningful amount of time, those people for sure were professionals and could live very well off that, but the amount of them is very limited. (Even more so than in SC1.)
I don't know how you'd know Moon is the best paid progamer, afaik. we have hardly any knowledge on the salaries of such people like Flash or Jaedong who I'd imagine would earn much more.
It is funny that when Blizzard wanted to change terms of SC2 esports then most people didn't find anything wrong with it becouse it was legal, but when something happens that is legal, and they don't approve it then most people are against it becouse of some other reason. At least try to be a little bit coherent in your arguments kk? If just becouse something is legal don't automatically makes it good/moral/whatever word you want to use then don't use it as an argument.
On April 17 2010 14:52 infinity2k9 wrote: Uh yes they do, kespa bought broadcasting rights for SC1. Some of you should take into consideration that kespa has kept progaming alive all these years, while blizzard did nothing and stayed out of it. Now suddenly they realize there's a profit so they try and get involved and do stupid shit like removing lan play. So they say they are making SC2 'e-sports friendly' but then alienate the biggest e-sports organization and remove lan play? I'd rather they just stay out of it and stick to what they know, making games and keeping bnet2 good for all the average players and leave the progaming to the people who have ran it all these years.
Removing lan play is a kick in the face of tournament organizers, who need to jump through another hoop to get the tournament running (reliable internet) as well as makes it harder for them to set up a self-contained network the way they want it.
As well, blizzard is also saying "trust us" when it comes to replays from tourneys and possible leaks, as it's not possible to isolate the computers involved in tournament matches.
On April 17 2010 15:47 infinity2k9 wrote: You seem to be under the impression that e-sports is actually going to be popular in the mainstream anywhere else though, and that blizzards intentions are any more noble than Kespa's. This is the company that charges $25 for pets in WoW, they aren't interested in furthering e-sports unless it involves more money for them otherwise they would just leave the Korean proscene to continue as it was.
Yeah. It's really all about the potential profit involved for the parties involved. Plus pro BW was lightning in a bottle, as well a result of multiple lucky events coinciding. Other games since then haven't been able to capture the same kind of audience.
Oh well. As someone who doesn't care either way about the future of SC2, it'll be interesting to watch how things play out.
On April 17 2010 18:36 Polis wrote: It is funny that when Blizzard wanted to change terms of SC2 esports then most people didn't find anything wrong with it becouse it was legal, but when something happens that is legal, and they don't approve it then most people are against it becouse of some other reason. At least try to be a little bit coherent in your arguments kk? If just becouse something is legal don't automatically makes it good/moral/whatever word you want to use then don't use it as an argument.
Then let's take legality out of the equation. What is immoral about Blizzard wanting money from you if you profit from one of their products/IPs?
It's not like Kespa is some mom and pop shop that Blizzard is squeezing every penny they can out of.
WC3 did not have excellent wages compared to Korean SC wages. You could barely classify WC3 as professional by Korean definition imo.
sure it did, the top players in WC3 were making just as much as the top players in SC were via salary, its not like every SC gamer on a team is making big money at all... Theres only a few just like WC3.
How many players in WC3 made a living out of WC3? A few. How many in SC? Couple hundred.
The number of high salary players in BW is much higher too. I dunno where you get your facts from. O_o
On April 17 2010 18:15 drlame wrote: Why are people complaining about kespa? Afaik this has nothing to do with kespa as it is the Korean Game Rating Board that calls the shots. Haters will hate i guess.
No offense, but you have no idea how Asian governments work, especially in the Pacific Rim.
If you had a better understanding of how those governments functioned, it is very conceivable that KESPA was involved with this, especially if the Korean government is convinced KESPA's business is being threatened.
Even developed countries like Korea, Taiwan, and Japan are not as transparent as Western Europe and the US. On the contrary, they are quite protective - just look at the hurdles Apple had to go through to get Korea to open up its market to foreign phone makers:
this happened in germany numerous times with ego shooters (not just adult rating, but forbidden in general). then some adjustments were made (for example less gore and disappearing bodies in l4d2) and the game got released.
so for korean sc2 version just remove gory marine death animations and dunno what else, and everything should be fine.
Smart move by whoever thought of this. It won't affect the sales, but there won't be any television broadcasts of Starcraft II in prime time/daily hours.
On April 17 2010 18:46 Ocedic wrote:Then let's take legality out of the equation. What is immoral about Blizzard wanting money from you if you profit from one of their products/IPs?
Blizzard is making good money from selling they software, and they were already profiting allot from esports by selling more copies, esport is organizing events, paying for keeping the team getting sponsors etc. Blizzard is just being greed, if that is an esport game then make if free, and make money from licensing esport events, if it is normal priced game then they just look for more ways to squeeze more money. If somebody is paid money for no additional service then somebody has to pay it, and it would be rather naive to assume that it will only be somebody from Kespa. How can you not be against charging for something that was almost free in the past as a customer? There would probably be SC2beta events already in Korean TV if Blizzard would not want to change terms. People are to easy to accept small inconvenient changes like no LAN w/o internet, and it steadily gets worse. What was wrong with the way it was in past? Was Blizzard ever short on money? Did they ever release a game that wasn't a commercial success?
On April 17 2010 18:46 Ocedic wrote:It's not like Kespa is some mom and pop shop that Blizzard is squeezing every penny they can out of.
They want to get that money from anybody that will organize esports on big scale, and they don't even say what the terms are, if that is not abusing your position then what is? You can work for us, we will pay you if we decide to.
On April 17 2010 18:36 Polis wrote: It is funny that when Blizzard wanted to change terms of SC2 esports then most people didn't find anything wrong with it becouse it was legal, but when something happens that is legal, and they don't approve it then most people are against it becouse of some other reason. At least try to be a little bit coherent in your arguments kk? If just becouse something is legal don't automatically makes it good/moral/whatever word you want to use then don't use it as an argument.
Then let's take legality out of the equation. What is immoral about Blizzard wanting money from you if you profit from one of their products/IPs?
It's not like Kespa is some mom and pop shop that Blizzard is squeezing every penny they can out of.
If you buy something you should be allowed to use it as you please, you've already payed for the product.
It's like if I would buy a hammer and then utilize it to contruct a house, and then all of a sudden the hammer company decides to sue me for making a profit and thus want a share of my house.
It makes no sense, a hammer is made to construct things, a game is made to be played and watched. If anything they should be thankful that they get the free 2 hour advertising for their game at prime time every night. Most companies would pay quite a bit to get that kind of exposure for their product.
Another comparison would be to football shoes. If someone uses a companies shoes while playing in a high concept match (say for example Real Madrid vs Barcelona). You think the shoe company would try to get in on the profit the player is making from using the shoes? Hardly, instead they pay large amounts of money for the players to actually use the shoes, since in the end it means a profit for them with the added exposure. Blizzard is just being much more greedy than most.
Such an awful analogy. You might as well say "if I buy a CD, why can't I make copies of it and sell them to other people at just under the price of the original CD?".
You'd think the South-Korean government would try to contrast itself with the totalitarian North-Korean government, but apparently they're just envious.
I doubt the Adult Only rating will stay. It's obviously a backlash to Blizzard giving Korea Open Beta. All those PC Bongs freely advertising Starcraft 2 and contributing to the people discovering and getting into the scene? Not so good if KeSPA can't gain control over it as people will want it, and they wont be able to host it solo.
For those who think Blizzard is just being greedy, really get your facts straight. KeSPA treats the players like slaves/shit (whichever you think is nicer). KeSPA having control over eSports in Korea essentially allows them to decide Koreans can't participate in any event they dont approve of. (GOMTV getting broken down?) Many people, including Blizzard are strongly against the way KeSPA treats the players. If you think Blizzard is just fighting with KeSPA because of money, go research more before trying to sound smart. Blizzard is entitled to their profit. They MADE the game. They actually have the right to be on top. KeSPA is the greedy one. They had no part in the development of Starcraft 2 yet they want full control on broadcasting in Korea like it's their game. They did not create the Starcraft scene and the Starcraft 2 scene has already begun to flourish without them. KeSPA just wants to leech off of Blizzards success. Why is it wrong for other companies and groups in Korea to want to hold tournaments with progamers for broadcast?
Note: If I'm totally wrong about stuff so be it, I wont claim to be an expert so take my post with a grain of salt but from research and following it all these years this is the knowledge I've learned.
blizzard doesnt care esport, they only care easy money. korea is a well established market for esports. teams are ready, sponsors are ready and most important spectators are ready.
screw you blizzard. if you really care about esports then start something like Kespa in USA and Europe. yeah yeah we know there is no way to find sponsors like in Korea.
however kespa is not right at all. they should to stream pro leagues for a small amount of money and make more profit, then share it. let's say, kespa should to stop ignoring other communities.
in the end its all about money. please dont be naive to think anyone cares esports.
On April 17 2010 19:56 xBillehx wrote: I doubt the Adult Only rating will stay. It's obviously a backlash to Blizzard giving Korea Open Beta. All those PC Bongs freely advertising Starcraft 2 and contributing to the people discovering and getting into the scene? Not so good if KeSPA can't gain control over it as people will want it, and they wont be able to host it solo.
For those who think Blizzard is just being greedy, really get your facts straight. KeSPA treats the players like slaves/shit (whichever you think is nicer). KeSPA having control over eSports in Korea essentially allows them to decide Koreans can't participate in any event they dont approve of. (GOMTV getting broken down?) Many people, including Blizzard are strongly against the way KeSPA treats the players. If you think Blizzard is just fighting with KeSPA because of money, go research more before trying to sound smart. Blizzard is entitled to their profit. They MADE the game. They actually have the right to be on top. KeSPA is the greedy one. They had no part in the development of Starcraft 2 yet they want full control on broadcasting in Korea like it's their game. They did not create the Starcraft scene and the Starcraft 2 scene has already begun to flourish without them. KeSPA just wants to leech off of Blizzards success. Why is it wrong for other companies and groups in Korea to want to hold tournaments with progamers for broadcast?
Note: If I'm totally wrong about stuff so be it, I wont claim to be an expert so take my post with a grain of salt but from research and following it all these years this is the knowledge I've learned.
"Blizzard is entitled to their profit. They MADE the game." They get their profit by selling the game. And having free promotion on tv.. If they want something more whats stopping them from making their own leagues and broadcasts.. Oh right its a risky business that might not pay off so they want to leech of those who succeeded.
Its like if you are an artist and the company you bought your brushes and paint from wants a cut on your paintings because they dont have the talent to make such paintings but wants to profit from you using their stuff.
I´d take it that if Blizzard deem e-sports to be a big market in the near future they would be happy to lose money a couple years if it means they will be the major brand on the market when/if it takes off. It would bring them enormous revenue in the future if that were to happen.
However I think its more benificial for them to just provide the tools for events while being able to maintain a degree of control over their IP. It's cheaper, it allows for a more natural and faster development of the market and they can objectively support big events without risking to compete with themselves.
Kespa is just trying to sustain their power for the sake of the power, not trying to develop e-sports. Blizzard has a natural interest in developing SC2 as an e-sport.
Just my random thoughts atm.
On April 17 2010 20:28 iounas wrote: Its like if you are an artist and the company you bought your brushes and paint from wants a cut on your paintings because they dont have the talent to make such paintings but wants to profit from you using their stuff.
I´d say it would be more fitting to say that its like you painting a painting, and a gallery makes money from exhibiting your work of art and give you nothing for it.
On April 17 2010 20:58 Appendix wrote:I´d say it would be more fitting to say that its like you painting a painting, and a gallery makes money from exhibiting your work of art and give you nothing for it.
You had just said that players work put into the game adds nothing to the esports . That professional teams add nothing to the esports. Your analogy would only be true if OSL/MBC would show SC:BW box set, and cinematic from the game.
On April 17 2010 20:20 huun wrote: blizzard doesnt care esport, they only care easy money. korea is a well established market for esports. teams are ready, sponsors are ready and most important spectators are ready.
screw you blizzard. if you really care about esports then start something like Kespa in USA and Europe. yeah yeah we know there is no way to find sponsors like in Korea.
however kespa is not right at all. they should to stream pro leagues for a small amount of money and make more profit, then share it. let's say, kespa should to stop ignoring other communities.
in the end its all about money. please dont be naive to think anyone cares esports.
It's too early to know what Blizzard will do to help the ESPORT scene, but I see Blizzard as a 'greedy' company. They do try to make a profit where they can, but they also have a passion for their game. They like their game to best out there. A little like google, they'll do some things for profit, but they'll also do other things just because that's their idea.
I think it's a good thing that Blizzard gets royalties for the broadcasting of events, because that means they then have a monetary reason to invest in ESPORT.
On April 17 2010 20:58 Appendix wrote: I´d say it would be more fitting to say that its like you painting a painting, and a gallery makes money from exhibiting your work of art and give you nothing for it.
More like gallery paid for your painting so it uses it as it wants in exhibition giving you more exposure and future customers..
Its kinda like that there is a good brush manufacturer that all artists use and the company wants to use this fact to make artists pay a % of their sold paintings on their new better brush.. But the artists refused and use old brushes or brushes from another company.. Company knows that artists are so used to their brushes so it tries this for extra profit..
Similarly kespa could continue using sc1 or later even use some other popular game.. Plenty of companies would kill to have their games with so much exposure.
On April 17 2010 15:31 NicolBolas wrote: You might recall that the "K" in KeSPA stands for Korean. As in, a very small part of the world. Blizzard has greater intentions and aspirations for SC2 than just Korea.
Korea may have been the cradle of eSports. But one cannot remain in the cradle forever. And if KeSPA doesn't want to be a part of that, fine; Blizzard and the rest of the world can kick them to the curb.
You seem to be under the impression that e-sports is actually going to be popular in the mainstream anywhere else though, and that blizzards intentions are any more noble than Kespa's. This is the company that charges $25 for pets in WoW, they aren't interested in furthering e-sports unless it involves more money for them otherwise they would just leave the Korean proscene to continue as it was. I'm pretty sure Kespa doesn't care if the rest of the world plays SC2, when they have BW which is a tried and tested balanced game which is spectator friendly, and already has all the personalities which make people keep watching over there in the first place.
honestly if you have a job and make money, 25 dollars is pretty much nothing. I realize to a kid it seems like a ton of money. But for something you care about.. it's really not. I'm happy to see blizzard get money - they do great things with it. Look at all the work they put into sc2. The development of this game must of cost a fortune. Probably came from WoW money. Do you realize how rich blizzard got off WoW? Blizzard gets rich = we all win. Kespa needs to learn its place. They don't have leverage over sc2, how could they possibly expect to?
On April 17 2010 19:38 Mothxal wrote: Such an awful analogy. You might as well say "if I buy a CD, why can't I make copies of it and sell them to other people at just under the price of the original CD?".
No, in your example the original company would lose something (they lose the sales of the CD). However, if games are played professionally, Blizzard doesn't lose anything, (greedily) they just want in on someone elses profit. On the contrary, most likely Blizzard gains money by having their games played by the pros (as then more people will buy the games).
Do you honestly think any other games company would object if kespa decided to pick their game as the next big thing? I think pretty much all of them would pay money for that to happen. Do you think any cell phone company would complain and demand money if their cell phone was shown in a feature show or in a feature movie? Think any car company would complain? We know they wouldn't, since they pay large sums of money for that to happen as in the long run it increases their income (by exposing their products to a large potential market).
I don't see how Blizzard could possibly demand money for such a thing when any other companies would see it as an honor and a blessing.
On April 17 2010 21:21 cartoon]x wrote:honestly if you have a job and make money, 25 dollars is pretty much nothing.
That is not the point, the point is that when you buy it for 25$ you make companies more interested to do gimmicks like that, to split they game into plenty of DLC that cost more, and offer less then traditional expansion. And even those small DLC money can add up to decent sum of $ but I am more worried about motivating companies to make $ on silly gimmicks rather then solid products.
On April 17 2010 21:21 cartoon]x wrote:I realize to a kid it seems like a ton of money. But for something you care about.. it's really not. I'm happy to see blizzard get money - they do great things with it. Look at all the work they put into sc2.
Look what they had put in SC when they were much smaller company, they had completely remade engine because they were not happy with the first alpha version, and they made allot of changes for it. WC3 had sold great, and SC2 will sold great as well they 25$ horse is irrelevant to SC2 production. SC2 will cost more but it will sell more as well, and they had already cover the expenses of new engine by mod selling/2expansions instead of one (or will they be full price(?)/making Diablo3 on the same engine.
On April 17 2010 21:21 cartoon]x wrote: The development of this game must of cost a fortune. Probably came from WoW money. Do you realize how rich blizzard got off WoW? Blizzard gets rich = we all win. Kespa needs to learn its place. They don't have leverage over sc2, how could they possibly expect to?
We do? Warcraft: Orcs & Humans 1994 The Lost Vikings II 1995 Justice League Task Force[10] 1995 Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness 1995 Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal 1996 Diablo 1996 StarCraft 1998 StarCraft: Brood War 1998 Warcraft II: Battle.net Edition 1999 Diablo II 2000 Diablo II: Lord of Destruction 2001 Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos 2002 Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne 2003 World of Warcraft 2004 World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade 2007 World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King 2008 StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty [11] 2010 World of Warcraft: Cataclysm 2010 Diablo III[ 2011 (?)
Just look how many games we got from Blizz thanks to WOW.
Wow, big blow for Blizzard.Now I will have ask my Korean friends if anyone in Korea give a damn about game rating. Is this make SC2 adult show on TV? lol
On April 17 2010 19:38 Mothxal wrote: Such an awful analogy. You might as well say "if I buy a CD, why can't I make copies of it and sell them to other people at just under the price of the original CD?".
No, in your example the original company would lose something (they lose the sales of the CD). However, if games are played professionally, Blizzard doesn't lose anything, (greedily) they just want in on someone elses profit. On the contrary, most likely Blizzard gains money by having their games played by the pros (as then more people will buy the games).
Do you honestly think any other games company would object if kespa decided to pick their game as the next big thing? I think pretty much all of them would pay money for that to happen. Do you think any cell phone company would complain and demand money if their cell phone was shown in a feature show or in a feature movie? Think any car company would complain? We know they wouldn't, since they pay large sums of money for that to happen as in the long run it increases their income (by exposing their products to a large potential market).
I don't see how Blizzard could possibly demand money for such a thing when any other companies would see it as an honor and a blessing.
This post is just dishonest. You can't possibly think creating an entire profitable industry around a game and not compensate the creators of the game one penny is equal to using a mobile phone as a prop in a movie?
I know my analogy was bad too, but that was a parody of yours, since you were coming up with nonsensical analogies first.
On April 17 2010 22:15 Fzero wrote: More people will want to play this game with an adult rating than if it didn't have one at all. Welcome to teenagers.
But it will get very limited view from TV or live event. SC2 is a adult show in Korea haha, think about it!
On April 17 2010 22:14 Mothxal wrote:This post is just dishonest. You can't possibly think creating an entire profitable industry around a game and not compensate the creators of the game one penny is equal to using a mobile phone as a prop in a movie?
And what do you think about writers that write in MS office, and don't give any royalties to MS? SC is a software, played game is a new thing made using the software just like a *.doc file. What is the difference? Should MS take royalties for everybody that use windows in they work, why not? What is the difference? Either take royalties or charge for the software, developer really is being very greedy for wanting both of those things, and really there is no need to give those rights to them, they make money on given copy rights laws already.
On April 17 2010 20:58 Appendix wrote:I´d say it would be more fitting to say that its like you painting a painting, and a gallery makes money from exhibiting your work of art and give you nothing for it.
You had just said that players work put into the game adds nothing to the esports . That professional teams add nothing to the esports. Your analogy would only be true if OSL/MBC would show SC:BW box set, and cinematic from the game.
I'm not going to try to defend my analogy because I didn't put much thought into it. The point I was trying to get through is that brushes and tools are easily interchangeable, while BW and SC2 are not. Admittedly, I have to clear my thoughts on this matter so don't take me too litteraly right now. However, I think it boils down to Blizzard wanting to be more than just a game producer, extending their trademark into e-sports and therefore wants more control of their IP. I believe it is good because they are still a company acting on a competitive market, and the Korean model of today has so many flaws that it is bound to implode sooner or later.
On April 17 2010 22:38 Appendix wrote: However, I think it boils down to Blizzard wanting to be more than just a game producer, extending their trademark into e-sports and therefore wants more control of their IP. I believe it is good because they are still a company acting on a competitive market, and the Korean model of today has so many flaws that it is bound to implode sooner or later.
Does not look like it so far. Really all they actions were badly organized, and it does not look like they want to do anything else then make sure to get as much rights as they can. They can't even stream games from they blizzcon event. I am not sure where the idea that they have so great organization for esports comes from. They didn't even speak with teams or OGN/MBC or sponsors, they want work to be done for them, and take profit for it, this is how it looks to me so far.
On April 17 2010 19:38 Mothxal wrote: Such an awful analogy. You might as well say "if I buy a CD, why can't I make copies of it and sell them to other people at just under the price of the original CD?".
No, in your example the original company would lose something (they lose the sales of the CD). However, if games are played professionally, Blizzard doesn't lose anything, (greedily) they just want in on someone elses profit. On the contrary, most likely Blizzard gains money by having their games played by the pros (as then more people will buy the games).
Do you honestly think any other games company would object if kespa decided to pick their game as the next big thing? I think pretty much all of them would pay money for that to happen. Do you think any cell phone company would complain and demand money if their cell phone was shown in a feature show or in a feature movie? Think any car company would complain? We know they wouldn't, since they pay large sums of money for that to happen as in the long run it increases their income (by exposing their products to a large potential market).
I don't see how Blizzard could possibly demand money for such a thing when any other companies would see it as an honor and a blessing.
This post is just dishonest. You can't possibly think creating an entire profitable industry around a game and not compensate the creators of the game one penny is equal to using a mobile phone as a prop in a movie?
I know my analogy was bad too, but that was a parody of yours, since you were coming up with nonsensical analogies first.
this is why they have to teach ethics in computer science. so few people get it.
SC2 is more than just a 'hammer' that can be used to build a house. The game is the heart of the ESPORT. It has a major importance. If the game is good, it will help the ESPORT. Would ESPORT be as famous if the gameplay wasn't as good? Probably not. Buying the game allows you to play it, but when you start broadcasting it and making a decent profit out of doing so, it's the least to pay royalties to the creator of the game you're using to make your money.
Blizzard could let the royalties drop, but they shouldn't be bullied into it.
On April 17 2010 15:45 Waxangel wrote: Mostly meaningless.
Brood War was also rated adult only for a period, so they just released a "teen" version (I think they released one in germany too) which had green blood and got a 15+ rating. Later they changed the rating for Brood War because it was so popular but that's another story.
In any case it's not too much work for Blizz to make a less violent version.
My heart is peaceful now =). I just hope they release the "normal" version without delay.
On April 17 2010 15:45 Waxangel wrote: Mostly meaningless.
Brood War was also rated adult only for a period, so they just released a "teen" version (I think they released one in germany too) which had green blood and got a 15+ rating. Later they changed the rating for Brood War because it was so popular but that's another story.
In any case it's not too much work for Blizz to make a less violent version.
My heart is peaceful now =). I just hope they release the "normal" version without delay.
On April 17 2010 20:58 Appendix wrote:I´d say it would be more fitting to say that its like you painting a painting, and a gallery makes money from exhibiting your work of art and give you nothing for it.
It took 12 pages, but someone finally made a somewhat decent metaphor. The amount of horrible comparisons of IP to physical property in other people's posts is astounding. At least in North America, the laws governing these two are very different; you can't apply one to the other just because it makes an argument to support whichever side you're on; it's a fallacy.
Lots of people are babbling on when it seems they have no clue what the basic principles of licenses, intellectual property and broadcasting rights are. Do you honestly believe that the various sports leagues don't make a ton of cash from the TV stations that choose to broadcast their games (and from there make even more cash by selling the advertising spots)? Do you really think that bands aren't compensated when their music is played on the radio?
I'm pretty sure Korean parents have more knowledge about games and their "violence" than western parents, and will buy the game for their kids anyways.
In my own view, both Blizzard and KeSPA are just money-loving organizations. Without the money they can make from eSports, KeSPA will not exist. The same goes for Blizzard. Without the money they can make from the progame scene, they would not have even bothered to ask for royalties.
But think about it. Away from Korea and everything, do you think TL should pay Blizzard royalties when they stream TSL? Maybe not. I agree that broadcasting is in a much larger scale, but in principle, isn't it just the same?
I do agree that Blizzard game developers have put a lot of thought and work into developing SC2, but then when it comes to negotiating about the royalties, it is not the game developers who are doing the job. It is the financial officers of Blizzard who do this, and why would they want the royalties? No, not for game developing. They want the money so that they can report more in profits and their stock price will rise. Do the finance officers care about the development for the game? No, as long as they deliver on profits and gain the market's approval.
What about KeSPA? Enough said in previous posts, they are a bunch of corrupt money-loving people as well.
My conclusion? Both are evil and let's just hope they can negotiate something out of it. It would be a shame for SC2 to have no proleague in Korea (imagine no more Flash vs. Jaedong matches). And it would be a shame for TL to pay when they are so amazing to stream SC2 vids and keep up with TSL.
Wow this is a real shame, imagine if Starcraft II doesn't take off in Korea, This would be a major lose in e-Sports / MLG, potentially ruin the Starcraft II competitive market aswell if there aren't enough hardcore players, It will be very interesting to see how this plays out!!
On April 18 2010 00:58 NuKedUFirst wrote: Wow this is a real shame, imagine if Starcraft II doesn't take off in Korea, This would be a major lose in e-Sports / MLG, potentially ruin the Starcraft II competitive market aswell if there aren't enough hardcore players, It will be very interesting to see how this plays out!!
Foreign games are fun to watch to! What's important is to have both player be on even level to get interesting games. Even if Korean gets in the game late, it won't slow the foreign scene. It might even be the opposite. It's possible that Korean will turn to the foreign scene to watch SC2.
On April 17 2010 20:58 Appendix wrote:I´d say it would be more fitting to say that its like you painting a painting, and a gallery makes money from exhibiting your work of art and give you nothing for it.
It took 12 pages, but someone finally made a somewhat decent metaphor. The amount of horrible comparisons of IP to physical property in other people's posts is astounding. At least in North America, the laws governing these two are very different; you can't apply one to the other just because it makes an argument to support whichever side you're on; it's a fallacy.
Lots of people are babbling on when it seems they have no clue what the basic principles of licenses, intellectual property and broadcasting rights are. Do you honestly believe that the various sports leagues don't make a ton of cash from the TV stations that choose to broadcast their games (and from there make even more cash by selling the advertising spots)? Do you really think that bands aren't compensated when their music is played on the radio?
It isn't that simple. The music being played on the radio is the content, while the game itself is not a content the people are interested in. Its just a tool used to create the content. The fans are really interested in the games and their favorite players/teams, not the BW or SC2. Blizzard does not have the rights to the games being played the same way Adobe or Autodesk does not have the rights to the content being created with photoshop or 3dsMax.
What it really boils down to is what the Korean laws say about this. It doesn't matter what is written in the license agreement of the game if it's against the Korean laws.
On April 18 2010 00:58 NuKedUFirst wrote: Wow this is a real shame, imagine if Starcraft II doesn't take off in Korea, This would be a major lose in e-Sports / MLG, potentially ruin the Starcraft II competitive market aswell if there aren't enough hardcore players, It will be very interesting to see how this plays out!!
Foreign games are fun to watch to! What's important is to have both player be on even level to get interesting games. Even if Korean gets in the game late, it won't slow the foreign scene. It might even be the opposite. It's possible that Korean will turn to the foreign scene to watch SC2.
Sure they are fun but its not the same.. When you watch Koreans you know that they train 8-12 hr per day and are really dedicated and professional to what they do. When I watch some of current sc2 tournaments I get that feel like why am I wasting my life watching some 2 guys play a game over net.. But with Korean games you have quality TV production and live 1v1 games in booths with crowds cheering and it makes it feel like a normal sporting event.. And players dedicate their life for starcraft while for foreign gamers it could be just another hobby. It makes you appreciate the game even more. Its kinda like watching Barcelona - Real Madrid on Camp nou or watching some amateur league of guys with normal jobs..
On April 17 2010 20:58 Appendix wrote:I´d say it would be more fitting to say that its like you painting a painting, and a gallery makes money from exhibiting your work of art and give you nothing for it.
It took 12 pages, but someone finally made a somewhat decent metaphor. The amount of horrible comparisons of IP to physical property in other people's posts is astounding. At least in North America, the laws governing these two are very different; you can't apply one to the other just because it makes an argument to support whichever side you're on; it's a fallacy.
Lots of people are babbling on when it seems they have no clue what the basic principles of licenses, intellectual property and broadcasting rights are. Do you honestly believe that the various sports leagues don't make a ton of cash from the TV stations that choose to broadcast their games (and from there make even more cash by selling the advertising spots)? Do you really think that bands aren't compensated when their music is played on the radio?
It isn't that simple. The music being played on the radio is the content, while the game itself is not a content the people are interested in. Its just a tool used to create the content. The fans are really interested in the games and their favorite players/teams, not the BW or SC2. Blizzard does not have the rights to the games being played the same way Adobe or Autodesk does not have the rights to the content being created with photoshop or 3dsMax.
What it really boils down to is what the Korean laws say about this. It doesn't matter what is written in the license agreement of the game if it's against the Korean laws.
What people are interested in isn't the crux of the issue though. Kespa is broadcasting Blizzard's intellectual property without permission, which is illegal in North America. Even if you don't believe this, you could use your own argument for regular sports... and yet broadcasting rights are still multi-million dollar propositions.
I agree with your last paragraph; that's what started this whole debacle. Since Blizzard hasn't been able to get what it is justifiably due by NA standards, it was forced to take some more drastic steps in SC2, such as no LAN, in order to make it justifiable by Korean standards as well. The adult-only thing reeks of "screw you, if I can't have it no one can", though. Either way, the fans pay for the corporate greed on both sides.
On April 17 2010 07:01 Hier wrote: Violence? There's so much less gore in unit death animations than in BW.
i dont remember any gore, but the Zeratul slicing the hydralisk CG was pretty sick. we dont get that in BW.
it has T for Animated blood and gore iirc. i mean all zerg mutalisks explode into huge balls/puddles of blood,dragoons turn into blue soup when they die..marines explode medics explode ghosts explode firebats do sorta..
there was alot of gore in the game it just depends on how you looked at it haha
On April 17 2010 07:01 Hier wrote: Violence? There's so much less gore in unit death animations than in BW. Language? They can't dub it withOUT foul language?
Drug use? Yeah Raynor is in the gutter unfortunately.
On April 18 2010 01:35 psychopat wrote:What people are interested in isn't the crux of the issue though. Kespa is broadcasting Blizzard's intellectual property without permission, which is illegal in North America. Even if you don't believe this, you could use your own argument for regular sports... and yet broadcasting rights are still multi-million dollar propositions.
No I can't, Blizzard didn't made leagues, they didn't made that content they had made the software.
if this really is KeSPA's doing, i have even less respect for them now (which is pretty difficult to imagine at this point). They probly want to milk sc:bw for all its worth before sc2 comes out, cause once that happens, KeSPA's gonna get hit hard.
But something tells me that this may also be an attempt to control the mass gaming in South Korea. I mean, SC2 is gonna be HUGE there, and i cant imagine anyone (including myself) not wanting to mass game on it once it comes out.
On April 18 2010 00:55 cognizantfire wrote: In my own view, both Blizzard and KeSPA are just money-loving organizations. Without the money they can make from eSports, KeSPA will not exist. The same goes for Blizzard. Without the money they can make from the progame scene, they would not have even bothered to ask for royalties.
But think about it. Away from Korea and everything, do you think TL should pay Blizzard royalties when they stream TSL? Maybe not. I agree that broadcasting is in a much larger scale, but in principle, isn't it just the same?
I do agree that Blizzard game developers have put a lot of thought and work into developing SC2, but then when it comes to negotiating about the royalties, it is not the game developers who are doing the job. It is the financial officers of Blizzard who do this, and why would they want the royalties? No, not for game developing. They want the money so that they can report more in profits and their stock price will rise. Do the finance officers care about the development for the game? No, as long as they deliver on profits and gain the market's approval.
What about KeSPA? Enough said in previous posts, they are a bunch of corrupt money-loving people as well.
My conclusion? Both are evil and let's just hope they can negotiate something out of it. It would be a shame for SC2 to have no proleague in Korea (imagine no more Flash vs. Jaedong matches). And it would be a shame for TL to pay when they are so amazing to stream SC2 vids and keep up with TSL.
TL doesn't get money from streaming TSL. That's the reason Blizz wants money from kespa - because kespa earns money using Blizzard's game!
And wtf with adult only, how can a sci fi game with events that can't happen where you "move units with invisible hand" can affect anyone? O.o
On April 18 2010 01:35 psychopat wrote:What people are interested in isn't the crux of the issue though. Kespa is broadcasting Blizzard's intellectual property without permission, which is illegal in North America. Even if you don't believe this, you could use your own argument for regular sports... and yet broadcasting rights are still multi-million dollar propositions.
No I can't, Blizzard didn't made leagues, they didn't made that content they had made the software.
Your point? Based on a couple other posts in this thread, Kespa didn't either.
On April 18 2010 00:58 NuKedUFirst wrote: Wow this is a real shame, imagine if Starcraft II doesn't take off in Korea, This would be a major lose in e-Sports / MLG, potentially ruin the Starcraft II competitive market aswell if there aren't enough hardcore players, It will be very interesting to see how this plays out!!
It's a fucking tragedy if we're left with only MLG, that organization is as bad as KeSPA.
Why has no one pointed out some big facts... You will never OWN a copy of sc2 he'll you don't even OWN your copy of windows
when you BUY software you are actually licensing it. At no point do you ever own the intellectual property
now then, when you use this software you are licensing you accept the agreement often a Eula or tos in this tos or Eula it says that you may not redistribute or rebroadcast the content without permission permission that will cost money
I'm fairly sure SC1 was initially rated 'Adult' as well and the rating was just changed after its popularity skyrocketed. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this one.
On April 18 2010 02:33 Mr.E wrote: How easily can Korean minors get a hold of mature rated games?
If Blizzard wants to aggressively push this game and pushes it to be distributed to PC bangs at a reduced rate or something, this could very easily become widespread anyways.
On April 18 2010 02:29 Prometheus2011 wrote: Why has no one pointed out some big facts... You will never OWN a copy of sc2 he'll you don't even OWN your copy of windows
when you BUY software you are actually licensing it. At no point do you ever own the intellectual property
now then, when you use this software you are licensing you accept the agreement often a Eula or tos in this tos or Eula it says that you may not redistribute or rebroadcast the content without permission permission that will cost money
On April 18 2010 01:35 psychopat wrote:What people are interested in isn't the crux of the issue though. Kespa is broadcasting Blizzard's intellectual property without permission, which is illegal in North America. Even if you don't believe this, you could use your own argument for regular sports... and yet broadcasting rights are still multi-million dollar propositions.
No I can't, Blizzard didn't made leagues, they didn't made that content they had made the software.
Your point? Based on a couple other posts in this thread, Kespa didn't either.
Kespa represents pro teams, and that is beside the point anyway, Blizzard didn't say that they will only take royalties from Kespa they will want they share no matter who would do SC2 pro gaming.
My point is that Blizzard didn't do it, nothing indicates that they want to do it, and they want royalties for it.
It mentions that the Game Ratings Board, which is a unit of the Ministry of Culture, will decide on SC2's ratings. Kespa = Korean ESPORTS Association. Since when do they rate all the games in Korea ever?
I'm all for hating on Kespa, but this is the Game Ratings Board's decision.
On April 17 2010 18:36 Polis wrote: It is funny that when Blizzard wanted to change terms of SC2 esports then most people didn't find anything wrong with it becouse it was legal, but when something happens that is legal, and they don't approve it then most people are against it becouse of some other reason. At least try to be a little bit coherent in your arguments kk? If just becouse something is legal don't automatically makes it good/moral/whatever word you want to use then don't use it as an argument.
Then let's take legality out of the equation. What is immoral about Blizzard wanting money from you if you profit from one of their products/IPs?
It's not like Kespa is some mom and pop shop that Blizzard is squeezing every penny they can out of.
If you buy something you should be allowed to use it as you please, you've already payed for the product.
It's like if I would buy a hammer and then utilize it to contruct a house, and then all of a sudden the hammer company decides to sue me for making a profit and thus want a share of my house.
It makes no sense, a hammer is made to construct things, a game is made to be played and watched. If anything they should be thankful that they get the free 2 hour advertising for their game at prime time every night. Most companies would pay quite a bit to get that kind of exposure for their product.
Another comparison would be to football shoes. If someone uses a companies shoes while playing in a high concept match (say for example Real Madrid vs Barcelona). You think the shoe company would try to get in on the profit the player is making from using the shoes? Hardly, instead they pay large amounts of money for the players to actually use the shoes, since in the end it means a profit for them with the added exposure. Blizzard is just being much more greedy than most.
These aren't very good analogies. If the hammer or shoes had legal agreements that had such clauses, it would probably be their right to do so. Then you wouldn't buy that brand of shoes and buy another. Just like Kespa could choose to not buy StarCraft 2 and use another game as an E-sport title, but they don't want to.
I think this decision has a lot more to do with the gaming scene as a whole in Korea in regards to StarCraft specifically. I believe the rating is a move to keep less mature players out of the game (not necessarily in age but rather in their maturity in regards to approaching the game) to possibly encourage even more progaming.
On April 18 2010 01:35 psychopat wrote:What people are interested in isn't the crux of the issue though. Kespa is broadcasting Blizzard's intellectual property without permission, which is illegal in North America. Even if you don't believe this, you could use your own argument for regular sports... and yet broadcasting rights are still multi-million dollar propositions.
No I can't, Blizzard didn't made leagues, they didn't made that content they had made the software.
Your point? Based on a couple other posts in this thread, Kespa didn't either.
Kespa represents pro teams, and that is beside the point anyway, Blizzard didn't say that they will only take royalties from Kespa they will want they share no matter who would do SC2 pro gaming.
My point is that Blizzard didn't do it, nothing indicates that they want to do it, and they want royalties for it.
They want royalties for MAKING PROFIT out of it. That's the difference and that's what i agree with - it is wrong that kespa wants to make money from SC2 and still not give anything to Blizz
Regarding SC2 being a tool for creating content in the same way that Photoshop or 3DSMax is: no. There is a reason you pay 50 bucks for a game and thousands of dollars for that kind of software. They are simply not the same.
I think its ridiculous that people are defending KeSPA. How is it fair that one company makes millions of dollars off of someone's IP without giving them a cent? Of course it boils down to money, but Blizzard is in no way greedy in asking for broadcasting royalties.
Honestly don't understand how anyone can think otherwise.
I have to say that yes, people are going to be angry about this, and yes, it puts the younger gamers at a disadvantage, but you really do need to notice that SCII is extremely violent. People exploding, being set on fire and burning to death, being dissolved in acid. Zerg units and buildings explode in blood, with buildings giving very explicit collapse based on their skeletal structure and leaving a crater of gore behind.
Yes, players are distanced from it by being a commander rather than a 1st or 3rd person perspective, but that really doesn't change the inherent violence. From the perspective an external group, I can definitely see why non-gamers would want it constrained to adults.
On April 18 2010 07:50 Reutan wrote: I have to say that yes, people are going to be angry about this, and yes, it puts the younger gamers at a disadvantage, but you really do need to notice that SCII is extremely violent. People exploding, being set on fire and burning to death, being dissolved in acid. Zerg units and buildings explode in blood, with buildings giving very explicit collapse based on their skeletal structure and leaving a crater of gore behind.
Yes, players are distanced from it by being a commander rather than a 1st or 3rd person perspective, but that really doesn't change the inherent violence. From the perspective an external group, I can definitely see why non-gamers would want it constrained to adults.
Are you trolling or not getting it? This is not about children, this is about money. ^___^
It mentions that the Game Ratings Board, which is a unit of the Ministry of Culture, will decide on SC2's ratings. Kespa = Korean ESPORTS Association. Since when do they rate all the games in Korea ever?
I'm all for hating on Kespa, but this is the Game Ratings Board's decision.
This. Unless there is some sort of conspiracy running behind the scenes, these two are not directly related are they?
On April 18 2010 07:50 Reutan wrote: I have to say that yes, people are going to be angry about this, and yes, it puts the younger gamers at a disadvantage, but you really do need to notice that SCII is extremely violent. People exploding, being set on fire and burning to death, being dissolved in acid. Zerg units and buildings explode in blood, with buildings giving very explicit collapse based on their skeletal structure and leaving a crater of gore behind.
Yes, players are distanced from it by being a commander rather than a 1st or 3rd person perspective, but that really doesn't change the inherent violence. From the perspective an external group, I can definitely see why non-gamers would want it constrained to adults.
I disagree. An 18+ violence rating is meant for things like Hostel. Starcraft is as violent as Worm Armagedon. Worms burning, exploding and drowning. There's a big difference between a unit dying in Starcraft and someone getting shanked close and personal in a worse game.
I have to say that yes, people are going to be angry about this, and yes, it puts the younger gamers at a disadvantage, but you really do need to notice that SCII is extremely violent. People exploding, being set on fire and burning to death, being dissolved in acid. Zerg units and buildings explode in blood, with buildings giving very explicit collapse based on their skeletal structure and leaving a crater of gore behind.
Yes, players are distanced from it by being a commander rather than a 1st or 3rd person perspective, but that really doesn't change the inherent violence. From the perspective an external group, I can definitely see why non-gamers would want it constrained to adults.
I disagree. An 18+ violence rating is meant for things like Hostel. Starcraft is as violent as Worm Armagedon. Worms burning, exploding and drowning. There's a big difference between a unit dying in Starcraft and someone getting shanked close and personal in a worse game.
I don't disagree that it shoudn't be getting the 18+, but it is way worse than Worms. I'm trying to distance myself from my background as a gamer. You'd agree that the buildings explode into gore similarly to an imp being close ranged in Doom, right, but in higher resolution? You can zoom down in and get about that close. Doom II was one of the first games to be rated Mature; do you think we should really lower our standards for how young violence is appropriate for as time goes on?
On April 18 2010 08:08 Reutan wrote: I don't disagree that it shoudn't be getting the 18+, but it is way worse than Worms. I'm trying to distance myself from my background as a gamer. You'd agree that the buildings explode into gore similarly to an imp being close ranged in Doom, right, but in higher resolution? You can zoom down in and get about that close. Doom II was one of the first games to be rated Mature; do you think we should really lower our standards for how young violence is appropriate for as time goes on?
The thing is, ratings are all relative. What is OK and what isn't can only really be determined in any somewhat objective manner by making use of precedent. And the precedent set by SC, WC3, and a host of more violent and bloody games since then all point to SC2 not being anywhere close to the borderline for an AO game.
Also, the "Mature" rating on games in the US is not analogous to the rating that SCII is getting in Korea. The proper analogous rating is AO, which almost never gets sold on store shelves here.
On April 18 2010 08:08 Reutan wrote: I don't disagree that it shoudn't be getting the 18+, but it is way worse than Worms. I'm trying to distance myself from my background as a gamer. You'd agree that the buildings explode into gore similarly to an imp being close ranged in Doom, right, but in higher resolution? You can zoom down in and get about that close. Doom II was one of the first games to be rated Mature; do you think we should really lower our standards for how young violence is appropriate for as time goes on?
The thing is, ratings are all relative. What is OK and what isn't can only really be determined in any somewhat objective manner by making use of precedent. And the precedent set by SC, WC3, and a host of more violent and bloody games since then all point to SC2 not being anywhere close to the borderline for an AO game.
Also, the "Mature" rating on games in the US is not analogous to the rating that SCII is getting in Korea. The proper analogous rating is AO, which almost never gets sold on store shelves here.
Of course, of course. My argument is indeed that it would deserve an M but not an AO. I wanted to solidly put it above Worms, however. I feel that AO is mostly for sexual content, of which at least America tries to contend is for those who are 18+.
On April 18 2010 08:08 Reutan wrote: I don't disagree that it shoudn't be getting the 18+, but it is way worse than Worms. I'm trying to distance myself from my background as a gamer. You'd agree that the buildings explode into gore similarly to an imp being close ranged in Doom, right, but in higher resolution? You can zoom down in and get about that close. Doom II was one of the first games to be rated Mature; do you think we should really lower our standards for how young violence is appropriate for as time goes on?
The thing is, ratings are all relative. What is OK and what isn't can only really be determined in any somewhat objective manner by making use of precedent. And the precedent set by SC, WC3, and a host of more violent and bloody games since then all point to SC2 not being anywhere close to the borderline for an AO game.
Also, the "Mature" rating on games in the US is not analogous to the rating that SCII is getting in Korea. The proper analogous rating is AO, which almost never gets sold on store shelves here.
I don't know how ratings work in Korea, but the AO rating from the ESRB does not sound like the same thing as what SC2 is getting.
The ESRB MA rating says that the games should not be sold to anyone less than 17 years old, unless a parent is present. That sounds about like what is being asked here; the equivalent of an R rating for a movie. The AO rating from the ESRB is problematic because stores actively refuse to stock them (and in the console world, the 3 console makers simply don't allow you to make games for their platform that carry AO).
Unless you are claiming that Korean stores do not sell games with the same rating as SC2, I don't see the problem.
Well, I am extremely annoyed at this decision - which will become furious if the evidence that KeSPA tempered with this decision comes out - but hopefully delay at Korean market caused by this controversy will give excellent opportunity for foreign community to establish some sort of superiority over South Korea gamers for once.
On April 18 2010 10:24 scintilliaSD wrote: I'm amused at everyone raging at KeSPA when it isn't even confirmed that they had anything to do with the decision.
It will never be 'comfimed' that kespa was behind the decision, but it doesn't take too much deductive reasoning to see they are likely pulling the strings behind the scenes to try and get leverage over Blizzard.
On April 18 2010 10:24 scintilliaSD wrote: I'm amused at everyone raging at KeSPA when it isn't even confirmed that they had anything to do with the decision.
Do you have another suggestion for an organization that would be pushing toward such an unprecedented and unwarranted decision?
On April 18 2010 10:24 scintilliaSD wrote: I'm amused at everyone raging at KeSPA when it isn't even confirmed that they had anything to do with the decision.
Do you have another suggestion for an organization that would be pushing toward such an unprecedented and unwarranted decision?
I have one. How about, the Game Ratings Board? And the Ministry of Culture? You know, the people who are in charge of these things, and NOT Kespa.
I mean, what exactly does Kespa gain from making this move? Are you telling me that Kespa's dream is that SC2 is never released in Korea as long as they don't get full rights from Blizzard? How does that make any business sense?
Just because Kespa isn't Blizzard's biggest fan doesn't mean they're behind every single move that undermines a successful release of SC2 in Korea.
On April 18 2010 10:24 scintilliaSD wrote: I'm amused at everyone raging at KeSPA when it isn't even confirmed that they had anything to do with the decision.
It will never be 'comfimed' that kespa was behind the decision, but it doesn't take too much deductive reasoning to see they are likely pulling the strings behind the scenes to try and get leverage over Blizzard.
Oh. So Kespa's master plan is that they'll put at AO rating on SC2, which will scare Blizzard into giving Kespa full rights over SC2. Then Kespa removes the AO rating from SC2 without having Blizzard change anything from the game because they got full rights to broadcast/profit from SC2.
Man, what a foolproof plan. Fucking genius. And all it took was a little bit of deductive reasoning.
On April 18 2010 15:09 soudo wrote: I have one. How about, the Game Ratings Board? And the Ministry of Culture? You know, the people who are in charge of these things, and NOT Kespa.
Motive?
On April 18 2010 15:09 soudo wrote: I mean, what exactly does Kespa gain from making this move? Are you telling me that Kespa's dream is that SC2 is never released in Korea as long as they don't get full rights from Blizzard? How does that make any business sense?
Every day that SC2, the game they don't have rights to, isn't released in Korea is a day that SC1, the game they do have rights to, will continue to run unopposed. They have every reason to do by defering and delaying the coming of something that's going to cut into their power.
On April 18 2010 15:09 soudo wrote: I have one. How about, the Game Ratings Board? And the Ministry of Culture? You know, the people who are in charge of these things, and NOT Kespa.
On April 18 2010 15:09 soudo wrote: I mean, what exactly does Kespa gain from making this move? Are you telling me that Kespa's dream is that SC2 is never released in Korea as long as they don't get full rights from Blizzard? How does that make any business sense?
Every day that SC2, the game they don't have rights to, isn't released in Korea is a day that SC1, the game they do have rights to, will continue to run unopposed. They have every reason to do by defering and delaying the coming of something that's going to cut into their power.
I'm not going to get into why running away from problems is a bad business model, but even assuming that Kespa's goal is to squeeze out every single last drop of SC1, how does that prove that they're behind this move?
On April 18 2010 15:26 soudo wrote: I'm not going to get into why running away from problems is a bad business model, but even assuming that Kespa's goal is to squeeze out every single last drop of SC1, how does that prove that they're behind this move?
What they're doing isn't running away from a problem as much as using the tools at their disposal to deal with it as well as they can. And of course KeSPA is trying to squeeze out every single last drop out of SC1. It's by far their biggest draw, and since they aren't getting a slice out of the the SC2 pie, it would be irresponsible business practice not to.
On April 18 2010 15:26 soudo wrote: I'm not going to get into why running away from problems is a bad business model, but even assuming that Kespa's goal is to squeeze out every single last drop of SC1, how does that prove that they're behind this move?
It doesn't. But it does make them the only known organization with a reasonable motive. A government-associated organization like a Games Rating Board or Ministry of Culture are unlikely to break the status quo unless they have pressure from either the relevant constituency or some outside organization. There might be a couple self-righteous idiots who really think there's something wrong with SC2, but for them to reach a decision like this, there have to be enough self-righteous idiots to outnumber the guys who just don't care. If there was some public opposition to SC2, we'd probably have heard about it through the relevant Korean news sources.
It's possible that some unknown yet financially and politically powerful organization is opposed to Starcraft 2 in Korea, but I question how that could go unnoticed.
Just a reminder, it was kespa banning broadcasting of e-Stars Seoul StarCraft II(Moon vs Nada). Labeling it too "violent" for the audience. And not doing jack about starcraft, when it has almost the same material. But regardless to if kespa is behind this or not, they seem to be a pretty shady ass organization group.
It really doesn't matter whether Kespa is involved or not. I'd say Kespa was most likely involved. Even If they weren't, the committee would be aware of this issue and will choose the side that favors Koreans. If Blizzard wants the Adults only tag taken off, they'll have to negotiate with Kespa.
Kids aren't going to be able to play in the new Bnet because it is law that you have to register your Korean Social Security Number for all online services. Bnet is a online service so kids will have to be blocked. If Blizzard doesn't comply, Korea could just ban SC2. So Blizzard should just negotiate with Kespa.
On April 18 2010 17:02 T.O.P. wrote: It really doesn't matter whether Kespa is involved or not. I'd say Kespa was most likely involved. Even If they weren't, the committee would be aware of this issue and will choose the side that favors Koreans. If Blizzard wants the Adults only tag taken off, they'll have to negotiate with Kespa.
Kids aren't going to be able to play in the new Bnet because it is law that you have to register your Korean Social Security Number for all online services. Bnet is a online service so kids will have to be blocked. If Blizzard doesn't comply, Korea could just ban SC2. So Blizzard should just negotiate with Kespa.
Or, they could delay the Korean release, giving KeSPA a few more months to milk SC1 which makes them happy, and in the meantime rework the localized Korean version to satisfy the ministry of game rating or whatever.
South Korea Starcraft gamers accused of match rigging
Players control armies of different species that do battle in StarCraft Police in South Korea are investigating allegations of match fixing by professional players of sci-fi-themed strategy game StarCraft.
Maybe another one of their solutions to limiting the play of video games for Korean youths. There was that thread that said they are going to limit the playtime to like 4hours/day or something?
Assuming half those hours will be SC2(and the other half SC ofc ), then they've effectively cut playtime in half
On April 18 2010 18:04 Grobyc wrote: Maybe another one of their solutions to limiting the play of video games for Korean youths. There was that thread that said they are going to limit the playtime to like 4hours/day or something?
Assuming half those hours will be SC2(and the other half SC ofc ), then they've effectively cut playtime in half
I don't understand the logic behind these sequence of actions...
All I remembered was that they are trying to cut down time spent on video games for Korean youths. Apparently I didn't read the full OP, because the link is in there lol.
If they make Starcraft 2 harder to get for youths, and it is one of the most popular games in korea, then perhaps it will help enforce the gaming curfew since there will be less kids playing it 6 hours straight.
I'm not a Korean law expert, but I would think if SC2 is rated an adult game, then GOMTV may eventually run into legal problems showing SC2 on TV. I would think to be consistent, if kids under 18 cannot play the game, then kids under 18 should not be able to watch it on GOMTV as well without the proper warnings.
If Korea is like other Asian countries, that would force GOMTV to show anything SC2 related during late hours, or they have to take it off the air outright.
This has to be a move by kespa to fight Blizzards obvious attempt at controlling professional SC2 playing.
lololol and holy shit 17 pages in 1 day. I actually think this is a bold wise move; totally gay for the fans ofcourse but kespa has to protect it's industry. What better way to make SC linger and survive than to deny SC2 to the huge crowd ready to move away from SC1.
All I remembered was that they are trying to cut down time spent on video games for Korean youths. Apparently I didn't read the full OP, because the link is in there lol.
If they make Starcraft 2 harder to get for youths, and it is one of the most popular games in korea, then perhaps it will help enforce the gaming curfew since there will be less kids playing it 6 hours straight.
Btw it's not just the youth. INTERNET ADDICTION IS SERIOUS BUSINESS.
maybe blizzard can get a separate rating for the campaign and multiplayer. So games could still be broadcast, i'd imagine the violence,language,and so called drug use is in the campaign?
How the hell they can tell if there is drug , sex , violence and who knows what in campaing if it's not even out? From blizzcons? Bullsh.... They are just trying to keep bw for a lil while more.
On April 19 2010 07:00 prosky wrote: How the hell they can tell if there is drug , sex , violence and who knows what in campaing if it's not even out? From blizzcons? Bullsh....
Didn't Blizzard give a Release Candidate version to the ratings board to look at? I'm sure I read it in an article somewhere... edit: says so in article linked in OP
Why is everyone blaming KeSPA? All someone said is that they might be involved because of how they are recognized by the Ministry of Culture or whatever.
And really, limiting the game's playerbase sounds more like it would hurt them than help them. Isn't that were a lot of the interest is? In the youth? If you do something that could tarnish that interest, wouldn't that just mean less viewers/players in the end?
I mean, it's all shady really.
Although, if KeSPA just really doesn't want SC2 to go into eSports like BW did, then I guess I understand why they'd be involved. But I figure BW will eventually die off (years from now I'm sure), and then their big money is gone, unless they have something else by then (entirely possible).
On April 19 2010 14:55 RageOverdose wrote: Pardon me if I don't understand...
Why is everyone blaming KeSPA? All someone said is that they might be involved because of how they are recognized by the Ministry of Culture or whatever.
Cause Korea is ruled by big companies and KeSPA is a body ruled by big companies like Samsung and SKT1. Big Companies can easily sway the minds of the people in the government.
On April 19 2010 14:55 RageOverdose wrote: And really, limiting the game's playerbase sounds more like it would hurt them than help them. Isn't that were a lot of the interest is? In the youth? If you do something that could tarnish that interest, wouldn't that just mean less viewers/players in the end?
That doesn't matter if Blizzard plans to not allow KeSPA to broadcast SC2 games. It sounds like Blizzard wants a esports world without KeSPA, but KeSPA is not gonna down without a fight.
On April 19 2010 15:03 T.O.P. wrote: Cause Korea is ruled by big companies and KeSPA is a body ruled by big companies like Samsung and SKT1. Big Companies can easily sway the minds of the people in the government.
The United States isn't much different, thanks to lobbyists.
It really seems like an issue more with quelling the gaming addiction that apparently exists in the country, not because KeSPA wants more money.
On April 19 2010 15:03 T.O.P. wrote: That doesn't matter if Blizzard plans to not allow KeSPA to broadcast SC2 games. It sounds like Blizzard wants a esports world without KeSPA, but KeSPA is not gonna down without a fight.
Did they already establish that, though?
I just don't see what KeSPA has to gain from this at all. Are they in the field to lose too much money if SC2 isn't barred by Blizzard to be broadcast but royalties must be paid? I mean, they'll still have SC either way, although broadcasting SC2 alongside SC would probably take some fire from SC, and if they were to lose money, SC wouldn't be as good of a cushion.
All of that assuming people actually take more interest in SC2 in the country of course, and that SC2 is even considered/allowed for broadcasting.
But I doubt Blizzard wants an eSports world without KeSPA, but more so just one where they profit from their own game being broadcasted. Which is fair, in all honesty.
I just think some other influence was involved that isn't really directly eSports related. Although I'm prepared to eat my foot if KeSPA was found to be involved with this.
Also, it's not like this will stop kids from getting a hand on the game. It's going to happen either way.
lol, Starcraft II is still one of the most well known and most played games in Korea, their mommies will still buy it for them anyway. This is just a 'lol' move to blizzard.
On April 18 2010 17:20 Liquid_Turbo wrote: Made BBC headlines:
South Korea Starcraft gamers accused of match rigging
Players control armies of different species that do battle in StarCraft Police in South Korea are investigating allegations of match fixing by professional players of sci-fi-themed strategy game StarCraft.
Ugh this is sooo dumb. SC2 is not even close to being graphic enough to warrant an 18 and over rating. Ratings in general are pretty silly in any case.
from a personal standpoint, i could care less whether Korea gets a milder version of SC2 or not; i just hope it doesn't cause a hindrance to the release timing of the US edition.
from a ideological standpoint, the responsibility of kids destroying themselves through gaming shouldn't be on companies. These parents take no responsibility to the damage the kids do to themselves, rarely enforcing rules in the household for playing games. The kids then take advantage of the parental leniency and play to their "addiction"'s content. Then the parents blame the companies for the damage the parents could've prevented themselves. What bullshit.
Surely regardless of region you can just dl the client you want and change which server it connects to somehow. I think ppl already figured out how to do this between eu & us client.
lol im so glad i live in the US i couldnt imagine having a "gaming curfew" and i find it funny about the whole drug use topic.. i think it must be the stim? lol i could just imagine if they try to limit gaming in korea... nerds are going to get a lot more action with them trying to illegally play a game they will be come rebels and we all know how much girls love bad boys lol
These steps from South Korea are no doubt related to the growing number of murders/deaths related to 'gaming addiction'
If you're too lazy to read the article, here are some points that blew my mind:
"Last month, a couple let their three-month-old starve while they raised a virtual child in an online game, spending most of their days at an Internet cafe instead of caring for their newborn, police said."
"In February, a 22-year-old bludgeoned his mother to death for "nagging" him about playing Internet games, police said. He then played games online for hours, paying with his mother's credit card, a police statement said."
These steps from South Korea are no doubt related to the growing number of murders/deaths related to 'gaming addiction'
If you're too lazy to read the article, here are some points that blew my mind:
"Last month, a couple let their three-month-old starve while they raised a virtual child in an online game, spending most of their days at an Internet cafe instead of caring for their newborn, police said."
"In February, a 22-year-old bludgeoned his mother to death for "nagging" him about playing Internet games, police said. He then played games online for hours, paying with his mother's credit card, a police statement said."
Talk about crazy stuff
Honestly so what? There a plenty of plenty extreme examples of people rage and killing / murdering someone else over like NOTHING. Saying that kind is superb extreme is a joke.... that's some random extreme situations... i remember reading that some chess player killed his opponent just because he moved his figure back, without letting it go (that's not even forbidden by the rules).
Of course a newspaper company will highlight this extremes because it's selling better as saying that every day around 30000 children starving to death in Africa, because this would be boring and annoying, nothing that is selling good.
The issue is not whether kids can get a copy of the game or not, it would be easy enough to get it still, the problem comes from reduced coverage the game would get from the Ao rating which would be a big blow to its popularity. I doubt the game will be delayed significantly anyway, since a quick blood color swap and a couple simple texture/word edits would to the trick.
@Sherbople no way man .. they don't give a shit about 'gaming related murders' all they care about is controlling the moneah from esports via kespa. They are upset that blizzard gave them the finger and that's how they retaliate.
Honestly so what? There a plenty of plenty extreme examples of people rage and killing / murdering someone else over like NOTHING. Saying that kind is superb extreme is a joke.... that's some random extreme situations... i remember reading that some chess player killed his opponent just because he moved his figure back, without letting it go (that's not even forbidden by the rules).
Of course a newspaper company will highlight this extremes because it's selling better as saying that every day around 30000 children starving to death in Africa, because this would be boring and annoying, nothing that is selling good.
Whoa, didn't mean to strike a nerve there. I thought it was an interesting article, so I decided to post it. I'm merely trying to point out how South Korea is trying to stop this sort of addiction, and probably has a biased opinion of the sequel to their 'national sport' - Starcraft, because of it.
Dont get me wrong, I love Starcraft and love games. I posted this because I found that article interesting. I know it's an over reaction. I know the media likes to blow things out of proportion. I know all this. I know these are just extreme examples, you'd be an idiot to think otherwise. Human's just have a general interest in theses sorts of ridiculous scenarios.
@Sherbople no way man .. they don't give a shit about 'gaming related murders' all they care about is controlling the moneah from esports via kespa. They are upset that blizzard gave them the finger and that's how they retaliate.
That's probably true, I still wouldn't be surprised if its a combination of them both. I'm not going to try and act like I really know whats going on, I just thought other people might have found that article interesting.
That's a shame! Kespa just got owned, again. Instead of trying to work something out with Blizzard, every move they made is a defiant act, this shows how greedy and stubborn they are. And no surprise Blizzard countered swiftly with a blow to their face! Now South Koreans gonna get a dumbed down version of StarCraft 2, one that suited for carebears.
All the international students from South Korea I talked to, all agreed that it was a stupid move. No surprise Blizzard made a modified version, obviously they know there was a driven force behind the decision from their ministry.
On April 17 2010 07:01 Hier wrote: Violence? There's so much less gore in unit death animations than in BW.
i dont remember any gore, but the Zeratul slicing the hydralisk CG was pretty sick. we dont get that in BW.
Yeah, well a guys head explodes in a SC1 cinematic when the marines/firebats and the ghost are on the science vessel. Pretty graphic. So call it what you will!
On April 17 2010 07:15 milo wrote: Playing legal games like this can backfire, making it illegal may only hype the game even more.
You kinda got a point, this is the most anticipated game of all time probably, everyone is dying to play it. And now it's just become the forbidden fruit.
In my local news paper they had an artical about how in Korea they are trying to stop the increasing amounts of 'internet' addictions. The artical focused on kids and the kids getting violent with their parents, when they tried to stop them from playing. they used big works and dramatic explainations including one about a 18 year old killing his mother because she was gonna stop him playing wow and then he went back and played the game. They had some other pretty graphic examples including one about a baby which died because its parents didnt feed it irl and just fed a baby in some online game. strange stuff. The government is going to introduce some software making the internet unavablie between the hours of 12am and 7am, i cant remember exactly. I think the ban may just be a way to try and stop kids from 'getting addicted' to online gaming. with the success of blizzard's other games, it makes them a big target. edit: the software isnt mandatory.
On April 17 2010 08:37 ShaperofDreams wrote: It's strange how so many TL'ers think that Kespa is somehow responsible for the creation of pro-gaming in Korea.
boxer is. but kespa is every major company that sponsors everything (SKT, KT, Samsung OGN/MBC) they will do whatever it takes to protect their profits. sure... try to get another group to replace Kespa. who is gonna sponsor all the money to pay for pro teams facilities, stages and venues, advertisement, and the players itself? It sure as hell aint gonna be blizzard. and the major companies with money will side with the korean companies before it sides with a foreign meddling in korean affairs.
On April 17 2010 19:56 xBillehx wrote: I doubt the Adult Only rating will stay. It's obviously a backlash to Blizzard giving Korea Open Beta. All those PC Bongs freely advertising Starcraft 2 and contributing to the people discovering and getting into the scene? Not so good if KeSPA can't gain control over it as people will want it, and they wont be able to host it solo.
For those who think Blizzard is just being greedy, really get your facts straight. KeSPA treats the players like slaves/shit (whichever you think is nicer). KeSPA having control over eSports in Korea essentially allows them to decide Koreans can't participate in any event they dont approve of. (GOMTV getting broken down?) Many people, including Blizzard are strongly against the way KeSPA treats the players. If you think Blizzard is just fighting with KeSPA because of money, go research more before trying to sound smart. Blizzard is entitled to their profit. They MADE the game. They actually have the right to be on top. KeSPA is the greedy one. They had no part in the development of Starcraft 2 yet they want full control on broadcasting in Korea like it's their game. They did not create the Starcraft scene and the Starcraft 2 scene has already begun to flourish without them. KeSPA just wants to leech off of Blizzards success. Why is it wrong for other companies and groups in Korea to want to hold tournaments with progamers for broadcast?
Note: If I'm totally wrong about stuff so be it, I wont claim to be an expert so take my post with a grain of salt but from research and following it all these years this is the knowledge I've learned.
"Blizzard is entitled to their profit. They MADE the game." They get their profit by selling the game. And having free promotion on tv.. If they want something more whats stopping them from making their own leagues and broadcasts.. Oh right its a risky business that might not pay off so they want to leech of those who succeeded.
Its like if you are an artist and the company you bought your brushes and paint from wants a cut on your paintings because they dont have the talent to make such paintings but wants to profit from you using their stuff.
this quote is fucking beautiful. well said sir, well said.
BLIZZARD will PROFIT when koreans buy multiple copies of the game for their pro gaming houses, their venues, their PC bangs. BLIZZARD just wants even more of a cut through the massive advertisement and industry Korea has. i hate KeSPA too, but here, blizzard is being greedy as hell. if they want to support e-sports, they should go ahead and finance their own with their WoW money. but they wont. its a risk, lost of money on their corporate papers and something activision will never allow.
fuck blizzard on this issue, i support kespa. it is like the choice between obama and mccain back in the election. you know both parties are corrupt, but it is choosing the lesser of the two evils.
This is bound to happen in a country like South Korea where videogames become popular. The politicians are always going to use whatever they can to get the votes. This step might turn into a revolt in South Korea, however. =)
블리자드의 최신작 '스타크래프트2:자유의날개'가 게임물등급위원회로부터 청소년 이용불가 판정을 받은 것으로 밝혀졌다.
스타크래프트2는 알파 버전에서 15세 이용가 판정을 받고 지난 4월 14일 정식버전인 RC버전에서 '청소년 이용불가' 판정을 받으면서 정식 출시에 제동이 걸렸었다.
블리자드는 지난 4월 19일 입장을 정리해 게임물등급위원회에 이의신청을 제기하였으나, 4월 30일 재심의 결과에서도 '청소년 이용불가' 판정을 받았다.
당시 스타2의 청소년 이용불가 판정은 가상의 미래를 배경으로 총이나 칼등의 무기를 사용한 전투가 빈번하고 사체분리, 혈흔 등의 표현이 사실적이다는 것이 주요사항이었고 전투시에 사살, 공격 등의 명령등이 쓰이고, 일부 동영상에 비속어가 포함되어 있다는 것, 그리고 로딩 화면과 일부 캐릭터 화면에 담배를 피우는 장면과 로비의 배경이 술집이고 주인공의 음주 장면이 빈번하게 나타난다는 것이 기타 요인으로 작용했다.
이에 블리자드는 등급을 낮추기 위해 RC버전 이의신청 당시 반영하지 못했던 수정 버전을 게임물등급위원회에 제출했으나 7일 오전 게임물등급위원회 회의 결과 최종 수정 버전도 '청소년 이용불가'판정을 받았다.
이로써 스타크래프트2:자유의 날개는 3연속으로 '청소년 이용불가' 판정을 받았으며 한국에서 스타크래프트2의 흥행몰이에 큰 타격이 될 것으로 보인다.
Blizzard's latest 'Starcraft 2: Wings of Freedom' from the Game Rating Board found that adolescents who were not available for determination.
In the alpha version of StarCraft 2 for 15 years under a ruling last April 14 before the RC version of the full server on 'youth can not be used' to the full launch backed ruling caught a braking.
Blizzard straight position last April 19 complaint filed in the Game Rating Board, however, review the results on April 30 in the youth can not be used 'was diagnosed.
Youth can not be used at the time of award of two stars of the future in the context of virtual guns and knives to fight with weapons and body frequently isolated, blood, and it highlights is a factual representation was killed during combat, including attacks myeongryeongdeung 2 used, some of them are video contains profanity, and the loading screens and some character on screen smoking scenes and the lobby bar of the background and character of the drunken scenes appear frequently, and other factors that contributed to it.
This lower rating for the RC version of Blizzard complaint at the time did not reflect the revisions made to the Game Rating Board Game Rating Board meeting, but am on the 7th revision of the final results of the youth can not be used 'was diagnosed.
This Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty three consecutive Youth Not available 'ruling box office received a mall in Korea, Starcraft 2 seems to be a big hit.
according to chinese translations from wfbrood.com, sc2 was rated as 19+ for its beta, and RC version, blizzard appealed the decision by submitting a modified version of sc2 on april 19th
After reviewing the modified version, on may 7th, korean auditing board ruled that due to display of violence and drug abuse themes in sc2, adult only rating remains for sc2
this is not surprising since KESPA is just too powerful for blizzard to fxxk around in Korea. With a releasing date set for July, I don't think there is much room for blizzard to make more appeals, because KESPA will keep blocking sc2 in Korea, until an agreement can be reached between KESPA and blizzard regarding broadcasting rights
On May 08 2010 08:53 iloahz wrote: Kespa must be like "whos da boss now huh Blizz??"
Well, considering how small the Korean market is in terms of revenue, this whole mess will end up hurting KeSPA more than Blizzard.
If by small market you mean Blizzard's largest, then yes.
You are joking, right?
starcraft was sold at least 9 million times all around the world and 4,5 million times in korea, so how can you consider that a small market for starcraft 2?
seriously, with such a strong tradition, no wonder blizzard first revealed sc2 in Korea. Also, when rest of the world is fighting for beta keys, isn't Korea the only nation where each individual is granted the access to SC2 beta?
On May 08 2010 08:53 iloahz wrote: Kespa must be like "whos da boss now huh Blizz??"
Well, considering how small the Korean market is in terms of revenue, this whole mess will end up hurting KeSPA more than Blizzard.
first, Korea is the largest source of revenue for starcraft franchise. Secondly, if blizzard doesn't reach an agreement with KESPA, KESPA will just continue to operate its sc1 leagues by restrict sc2's popularity in Korea. And KESPA does not care if SC2 become popular in EU or NA, because their market is Korea
On May 08 2010 08:53 iloahz wrote: Kespa must be like "whos da boss now huh Blizz??"
Well, considering how small the Korean market is in terms of revenue, this whole mess will end up hurting KeSPA more than Blizzard.
If by small market you mean Blizzard's largest, then yes.
You are joking, right?
starcraft was sold at least 9 million times all around the world and 4,5 million times in korea, so how can you consider that a small market for starcraft 2?
Units sold != Revenue - Blizzard get way less from each copy sold in Korea compared to copies sold in the west. Also Starcraft is a very small part of Blizzard's revenue.
On May 08 2010 08:53 iloahz wrote: Kespa must be like "whos da boss now huh Blizz??"
Well, considering how small the Korean market is in terms of revenue, this whole mess will end up hurting KeSPA more than Blizzard.
If by small market you mean Blizzard's largest, then yes.
You are joking, right?
starcraft was sold at least 9 million times all around the world and 4,5 million times in korea, so how can you consider that a small market for starcraft 2?
Units sold != Revenue - Blizzard get way less from each copy sold in Korea compared to copies sold in the west. Also Starcraft is a very small part of Blizzard's revenue.
Btw Starcraft has sold over 11 million copies.
It is still the largest market for starcraft regardless. For starcraft units sold = revenue.
On May 08 2010 08:53 iloahz wrote: Kespa must be like "whos da boss now huh Blizz??"
Well, considering how small the Korean market is in terms of revenue, this whole mess will end up hurting KeSPA more than Blizzard.
first, Korea is the largest source of revenue for starcraft franchise. Secondly, if blizzard doesn't reach an agreement with KESPA, KESPA will just continue to operate its sc1 leagues by restrict sc2's popularity in Korea. And KESPA does not care if SC2 become popular in EU or NA, because their market is Korea
lmao at people who are supporting the rampant corruption of that country. Its so obvious the KESPA corporations used their financial muscle on the ministry of culture or whoever doles out ratings.
On May 08 2010 08:53 iloahz wrote: Kespa must be like "whos da boss now huh Blizz??"
Well, considering how small the Korean market is in terms of revenue, this whole mess will end up hurting KeSPA more than Blizzard.
If by small market you mean Blizzard's largest, then yes.
You are joking, right?
starcraft was sold at least 9 million times all around the world and 4,5 million times in korea, so how can you consider that a small market for starcraft 2?
Units sold != Revenue - Blizzard get way less from each copy sold in Korea compared to copies sold in the west. Also Starcraft is a very small part of Blizzard's revenue.
Btw Starcraft has sold over 11 million copies.
It is still the largest market for starcraft regardless. For starcraft units sold = revenue.
That would only be true if the game got sold for the same price across all markets, with the same taxes and other fees/costs attached. Which just isn't the case.
My point was, that while this will hurt Blizzard, it really won't threaten their existence in any shape or form. KeSPA on the other hand is risking a lot due to the fact that their future rely heavily upon Starcraft.
BTW both of these childish actions by KESPA and Blizzard aren't good for any consumer or Starcraft fan. Both of them should grow the fuck up and work out a deal.
On May 08 2010 08:53 iloahz wrote: Kespa must be like "whos da boss now huh Blizz??"
Well, considering how small the Korean market is in terms of revenue, this whole mess will end up hurting KeSPA more than Blizzard.
If by small market you mean Blizzard's largest, then yes.
You are joking, right?
starcraft was sold at least 9 million times all around the world and 4,5 million times in korea, so how can you consider that a small market for starcraft 2?
Units sold != Revenue - Blizzard get way less from each copy sold in Korea compared to copies sold in the west. Also Starcraft is a very small part of Blizzard's revenue.
Btw Starcraft has sold over 11 million copies.
It is still the largest market for starcraft regardless. For starcraft units sold = revenue.
That would only be true if the game got sold for the same price across all markets, with the same taxes and other fees/costs attached. Which just isn't the case.
My point was, that while this will hurt Blizzard, it really won't threaten their existence in any shape or form. KeSPA on the other hand is risking a lot due to the fact that their future rely heavily upon Starcraft.
Retail price of Starcraft2 is pretty much the same as in the US. So to sum up right now it seems South Korea is the most important/largest SC2 market for Blizzard. Both rely on the other. Maybe someone has more leverage, I don't know. But Blizzard would be really naive if it thinks it has a complete free pass. I think this adult-only rating for sc2 definitely has kespa behind it.
Blizzard Entertainment next book 'Starcraft 2: Wings of Freedom' has filed for reconsideration.
Blizzard in the past seven days 'Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty (hereafter Star 2) for the Game Rating Board of the youth can not be used' grades were determined.
And Blizzard Game Rating Board of Korea will respect the decision to amend the information indicated in the last grading 11 days to apply for a new hearing, said.
Blizzard official request for the review, "the user around the world in Korea, with more gamers to enjoy the Starcraft 2 for" said "Star Craft 2 and South Korea meet gamers' expectations, released at the same time many users as possible I hope I can play games, "he said.
Starcraft 2 is fixed in the review copy, contact the following.
1. Occur red in the total strength to the Terran 6 units (Marine, bear, god, ghosts, soldiers fire room, flight surgeon) to black, change the expression of the blood, reducing the amount of strength to the unit. 2. Physical damage from the Terran (explosive, cutting, burning, etc.) occur a total of six units (Marines, Brown Bear, Death, ghosts, soldiers fire room, flight surgeon) remove the damaged presentation. 3. Zerg units and buildings destroyed in the blood, occurs when expression changed from red to black. 4. Representation of the blood, remove the single player campaign video. 5. Remove the loading screen smoking scenes. Six. Pointed to delete abusive.
블리자드는 지난 7일 ‘스타크래프트2:자유의 날개(이하 스타2)’에 대해 게임물등급위원회로부터 ‘청소년 이용불가’ 등급을 판정 받았다.
이에 블리자드는 한국의 게임물등급위원회의 판정에 존중하며 지난 등급 판정에서 지적된 사항을 수정해 11일 새롭게 심의 신청을 했다고 밝혔다.
블리자드 관계자는 이번 재심의 신청에 대해 “한국 내에서 보다 많은 게이머들이 전세계 유저들과 함께 스타크래프트2를 즐길 수 있도록 하기 위한 것”이라며 “스타크래프트2가 한국 게이머들의 기대 수준에 부합하고, 출시와 동시에 가능한 많은 유저들이 게임을 즐길 수 있기를 희망한다”고 덧붙였다.
스타크래프트2의 재심의 신청에서 수정된 사항은 다음과 같다.
1. 테란에서 붉은색 선혈이 발생하는 총 6개 유닛(해병, 불곰, 사신, 유령, 화염방사병, 의무관)의 혈흔표현을 검은색으로 변경, 해당 유닛의 선혈 양 감소. 2. 테란에서 신체훼손(폭발, 절단, 연소 등)이 발생하는 총 6개 유닛(해병, 불곰, 사신, 유령, 화염방사병, 의무관)의 훼손표현을 삭제. 3. 저그의 유닛 및 건물 파괴 시 발생하는 혈흔표현이 붉은색에서 검은색으로 변경. 4. 싱글 캠페인 동영상의 혈흔표현 삭제. 5. 로딩 화면의 흡연 장면 삭제. 6. 지적된 욕설 삭제.
Good for Blizzard, running them out of excuses. Bad for South Koreans who want the whole game uncensored though, but some of them would probably prefer a US version for the nostalgia anyway. Broodwar was in english afterall. Good old hydraliskun.
On May 12 2010 03:48 Rah wrote: Good for Blizzard, running them out of excuses. Bad for South Koreans who want the whole game uncensored though, but some of them would probably prefer a US version for the nostalgia anyway. Broodwar was in english afterall. Good old hydraliskun.
Who is making lots of profit OOHH it must be KESPA! its obvious that its KESPA errror!! Kespa is getting all those!! its KESPA's fault!!
Who is behind the money making scandal? OOHH it must be KESPA! its obvious that its KESPA errror!! Kespa is getting all those!! its KESPA's fault!!
Who is limiting the popularity of sc2? OOHH it must be KESPA! its obvious that its KESPA errror!! Kespa is getting all those!! its KESPA's fault!!
Who is the one who gave adult rating to Sc2? OOHH it must be KESPA! its obvious that its KESPA errror!! Kespa is getting all those!! its KESPA's fault!!
So whose fault is the game sc2 rated violence? OOHH it must be KESPA! its obvious that its KESPA errror!! Kespa is getting all those!! its KESPA's fault!!
Obviously, the world has lots of common sense and talk without proof. I wonder whose fault is it? OOHH it must be KESP....
On May 08 2010 08:53 iloahz wrote: Kespa must be like "whos da boss now huh Blizz??"
Well, considering how small the Korean market is in terms of revenue, this whole mess will end up hurting KeSPA more than Blizzard.
If by small market you mean Blizzard's largest, then yes.
You are joking, right?
starcraft was sold at least 9 million times all around the world and 4,5 million times in korea, so how can you consider that a small market for starcraft 2?
Units sold != Revenue - Blizzard get way less from each copy sold in Korea compared to copies sold in the west. Also Starcraft is a very small part of Blizzard's revenue.
Btw Starcraft has sold over 11 million copies.
wrong, SC2 is confirmed to be 69000 won in Korea, which converts into 60.7 USD.
On May 08 2010 08:53 iloahz wrote: Kespa must be like "whos da boss now huh Blizz??"
Well, considering how small the Korean market is in terms of revenue, this whole mess will end up hurting KeSPA more than Blizzard.
If by small market you mean Blizzard's largest, then yes.
You are joking, right?
starcraft was sold at least 9 million times all around the world and 4,5 million times in korea, so how can you consider that a small market for starcraft 2?
Units sold != Revenue - Blizzard get way less from each copy sold in Korea compared to copies sold in the west. Also Starcraft is a very small part of Blizzard's revenue.
Btw Starcraft has sold over 11 million copies.
wrong, SC2 is confirmed to be 69000 won in Korea, which converts into 60.7 USD.
Wrong, SC2 is confirmed to have tariffs placed on it (assuming it is like other games sold internationally), and is subject to domestic taxes as well, on top of distribution fees that must be paid to whoever they select as their distributor. Try again... and please people, think before you post ^.^
((As a side note, even if there are no tariffs placed upon the game, which is entirely possible since it could be manufactured inside SK, the taxes on the game and the distribution fee Blizzard pays is still higher than inside the US. I only used the confirmed line to place your "factual" statement in a satiric light.))
On May 08 2010 08:53 iloahz wrote: Kespa must be like "whos da boss now huh Blizz??"
Well, considering how small the Korean market is in terms of revenue, this whole mess will end up hurting KeSPA more than Blizzard.
If by small market you mean Blizzard's largest, then yes.
You are joking, right?
starcraft was sold at least 9 million times all around the world and 4,5 million times in korea, so how can you consider that a small market for starcraft 2?
Units sold != Revenue - Blizzard get way less from each copy sold in Korea compared to copies sold in the west. Also Starcraft is a very small part of Blizzard's revenue.
Btw Starcraft has sold over 11 million copies.
wrong, SC2 is confirmed to be 69000 won in Korea, which converts into 60.7 USD.
Wrong, SC2 is confirmed to have tariffs placed on it (assuming it is like other games sold internationally), and is subject to domestic taxes as well, on top of distribution fees that must be paid to whoever they select as their distributor.
((As a side note, even if there are no tariffs placed upon the game, which is entirely possible since it could be manufactured inside SK, the taxes on the game and the distribution fee Blizzard pays is still higher than inside the US. I only used the confirmed line to place your "factual" statement in a satiric light.))
Consumer Tax in SK is no higher than in the US. That being said, 69000 won includes the tax so in a way, people in SK will indeed pay less than people in US. It is still absurd to suggest Blizzard makes less money off each customers than in the US because price wise there is minimal difference, and COGS in SK would be in fact lower than in US because of cheaper labour and lower cost of living.
I don't see how distribution fee is going to be higher in SK. They developed a localized software (voice acting, UI is all in Korean). If anything, its going to be cheaper since country is smaller.
PLUS, Blizzard has additional incomes from PC bang industry in SK, who has to pay subscription fee to blizzard in order to provide SC2 for their customers. "Try again, think before you post please ^.^)
I'm just trying to figure out all of those translations.
I'm assuming Bear is Marauder, Death is Reaper, God is Thor, but the rest is hazy to me. Flight Surgeon? It would make sense for that to be Medivac, but I'm pretty sure it isn't. Soldier Fire Room? o.0
Oh, and guys, note that some of those 4.5 million copies sold in Korea won't be sold due to the higher price of SC2. Just something to consider (especially since there's no doubt that there were probably many people who bought more than 1 copy)
I wish eSport had that sort of appeal here T_T I never thought to hear a government official speak about gaming in a respectable fashion.
It's like M rated games here in the states. A bunch of people still get copies of games despite the lack of ID or parental units. I see the rating as not much of a deterrent except as just a written one not many will follow or do much about in the grand scheme of things.
Yeah e sports is huge over there. It's logical that the government would like to promote commerce in their city through gaming by having a big conference along with a tournament. It works for everyone involved. I also wish we had more involvement within our society to promote events like this. Might happen in time?
The thing I find most concerning is if younger players cant go pro (legally) or atleast start working up the ranks. that's assuming things work similar to bw, but with the kespa issues, and sc2 not even out yet, not sure how its gonna look.
I dont agree that sc2 is for adults at all though.Unless the campaign has some hardcore shit in it , lol.
UPDATE:South Korean Starcraft has been modified to get rid of all profanities, change the blood color to black for all zerg/terran units, less amount of blood, and no more smoking scenes.
Blizzard officially requested the updated version to be rated to south Korea's ESRB equivalent.
Source:http://www.fomos.kr/
I know they changed blood color and things around for Diablo 2 to get T rating in SK, but I don't know if this is the right move. Maybe they'll release 2 different versions of Starcraft 2 in SK.
On May 12 2010 14:03 scion wrote: UPDATE:South Korean Starcraft has been modified to get rid of all profanities, change the blood color to black for all zerg/terran units, less amount of blood, and no more smoking scenes.
Blizzard officially requested the updated version to be rated to south Korea's ESRB equivalent.
Source:http://www.fomos.kr/
I know they changed blood color and things around for Diablo 2 to get T rating in SK, but I don't know if this is the right move. Maybe they'll release 2 different versions of Starcraft 2 in SK.
yeah i wrote that 1 page before
i hope those koreans will also fix the rating then
On May 12 2010 14:03 scion wrote: UPDATE:South Korean Starcraft has been modified to get rid of all profanities, change the blood color to black for all zerg/terran units, less amount of blood, and no more smoking scenes.
Blizzard officially requested the updated version to be rated to south Korea's ESRB equivalent.
Source:http://www.fomos.kr/
I know they changed blood color and things around for Diablo 2 to get T rating in SK, but I don't know if this is the right move. Maybe they'll release 2 different versions of Starcraft 2 in SK.
Starcraft 2, expected to be released in the second half of this year, has received an Age 12 rating from the Korean Game Rating Board.
Blizzard had submitted Starcraft 2, currently undergoing beta testing, for review on May 7, but it received a rating of "Unsuitable for Minors." In response, Blizzard submitted a version with the offending elements adjusted on May 11.
The new version excludes scenes with smoking and vulgar language from the videos displayed during the single-player campaign. Blood that appears during gameplay has been recolored black.
According to Blizzard, "Since Starcraft 2 was originally developed to be a game adolescents could enjoy, we're very pleased with the Game Rating Board's decision. ... In the remaining time until SC2 goes on sale, we'll do our best to continue to perfect the game so that even more fans can enjoy it."
Blizzard also stated that discussion was ongoing on whether Starcraft 2 should be released in separate versions for adults and adolescents. At the moment, there is the possibility that Blizzard will release only the age 12 version, but they may also decide to release both versions.
ok so NA still gets the real sc2 version right? i mean... kids know the difference between a damn game and real life apparently not to the korean higher ups, but NA we know damn str8 a smoke is good toi have ^^
I wish eSport had that sort of appeal here T_T I never thought to hear a government official speak about gaming in a respectable fashion.
Sweden, Denmark and Norway has somewhat of a good relation with e-sport, almost like South Korea. Dreamhack, e-sport schools in denmark, norwegian prime minister visiting Norways biggest LAN festival etc etc.
E-sport is spreading. It's biggest in SK, but believe me, in the closest 10 years it will probably bloom out in the entire western world.
I seriously can't get why so many people dub this a "clever play". What's so clever about it? Rating boards exist solely as a censorship control valve which is uses to satisfy financial interests. No, they are not for your kids to grow kind and uncorrupt, they serve only one purpose - dirty marketing, the same goes for copyright agencies and any other censorship agency. What's clever about using a tool in the way it's meant to be used?
Distribution of SC in Korea is handled by Hanbitsoft, not Kespa, no? Anyway, Blizzard should take legal action against this. Let the fuckers rot.
On May 20 2010 16:49 BluzMan wrote: I seriously can't get why so many people dub this a "clever play". What's so clever about it? Rating boards exist solely as a censorship control valve which is uses to satisfy financial interests. No, they are not for your kids to grow kind and uncorrupt, they serve only one purpose - dirty marketing, the same goes for copyright agencies and any other censorship agency. What's clever about using a tool in the way it's meant to be used?
Distribution of SC in Korea is handled by Hanbitsoft, not Kespa, no? Anyway, Blizzard should take legal action against this. Let the fuckers rot.
EPT
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![[image loading]](http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6541/sittingmb.jpg)
They better stop making another amazing MMOs. It's flooding really. 
![[image loading]](http://www.ruggednerds.com/images/sc2_gonewild.jpg)
