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Lately, ive been having some weirdness with the Point system. Keep in mind, I didnt have beta for more than 2 days before the last reset, so I wasnt able to experience anything more than the placement games back then.
I am a lowly 1400 right now, but everygame I win seems to only get me 6-10 points (even if they are favored), and everygame I lose, I lose 15-20 points (even if they are favored).. So ultimately, like today for instance, I went 6-2, but in the end I am only up by 10 points on the day (thats INCLUDING 15 bonus pool points)
I would expect this if I was say, 2000+ ELO, and there was hardly anyone near my point total, but for being 1400 and ~300th ranked on the points ladder?? Its like one step forward, two steps back.. Very unimpressive point system, means I basically have to go undefeated in mass games to catch everyone above 1400..
Sure, you can say "dont lose games" but everyone loses the odd game, to cheese or even normal games once in awhile.. I dont think I should be losing twice the amount of points I am winning in one game. It should be like the older ladders, WC3 or Iccup even, where you win and go up so many (in those cases, +100) and when you lose, you lose only 50 to 75% of the win.. So least if you go 5-5 on the day, you are up at least acouple points.. This system, I feel like climbing the ladder is a total pain in the ass cause if I lose to one cheeser proxy or something, there goes the 3 wins I worked my ass off to get the past hour..
Anyone else having issues with this who are above 1400 in Platinum?
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Each win is +12 point, each loss is -12 points.
If your opponent is favored, you lose less and win more points.
If you are favored, you lose more and win less points.
If you win and have points in your bonus pool, your total point gain can be doubled but no more.
On April 12 2010 01:51 Skyze wrote:
I lose 15-20 points (even if they are favored)
This is not possible (unless it is a bug).
So if you went 6-2 and barely made points, you probably were the favorite in every single game.
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8751 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:51 Skyze wrote:
everygame I win seems to only get me 6-10 points (even if they are favored), and everygame I lose, I lose 15-20 points (even if they are favored).. So ultimately, like today for instance, I went 6-2, but in the end I am only up by 10 points on the day (thats INCLUDING 15 bonus pool points)
This definitely sounds bugged.
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There have been threads explaining both the ranking (visible number) and the match making system (apparently based on an invisible number).
What you are describing sounds like a bug to me or maybe I didn't understand the system right. Afaik (and that's definitely what the point breakdown after the game says) you can't win less than 12 points vs a favored opponent because it's 12 + x, and x>3 or so if the opponent is favored, however the values for x have changed i think. Also you can't lose more than 12 vs favored opponents in the same way.
How are you measuring your points? By the endgame screen or manually from the ladder?
Maybe something is wrong/confusing about the favored-status. Are you referencing the one before the game or from the endgame screen?
Might be they take one of them from the visible ranking and the other one from the invisible ranking. That would be confusing...
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it works like hell, an average player actually goes down in the ladder if he plays all day and never gather any bonus points.
To go up the ladder you must play only on weekeds so you can gather enough bonus pool to get decent amount of points after playing 50 games...
i mean, you see people with 62 wins / 60 loss with 1700 points (exagerating a little) and others with 966 points (not exagerating) with the same win / loss ratio of the same league.
That's only because of the bonus pool system, and not because he got more favored games, with that win / loss ratio it should have been the same.
So the ladder system works like hell for average player
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same things happening for me.. retarded points system
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United States12247 Posts
On April 12 2010 02:14 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 01:51 Skyze wrote:
everygame I win seems to only get me 6-10 points (even if they are favored), and everygame I lose, I lose 15-20 points (even if they are favored).. So ultimately, like today for instance, I went 6-2, but in the end I am only up by 10 points on the day (thats INCLUDING 15 bonus pool points)
This definitely sounds bugged.
It could be bugged, or it could be designed to counter point inflation beyond a certain level, which we all predicted would happen with a bonus pool. I noticed yesterday that I was getting around 10 points per game even when teams were even or the opponent was favored, and losing slightly more than that. They're probably adjusting the ladder values so that not every game is worth 12 points flat (so maybe Platinum is worth 10 base, Gold is worth 12, etc). We'll have to wait for more data on this, but it wouldn't surprise me.
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It is not bugged.
The rank in the ladder is what decides upon being favored or not, while the real rank (which we don't see) would show that you are actually favored. The points you're getting are based on the real rank, not on the ladder rank.
Generally this wouldn't be a problem because people are getting better, and getting ladder-ranking points, as their real rank would be getting higher. However, you've probably beaten a lot of good players too fast for your ladder-ranking to catch up.
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On April 12 2010 02:10 spinesheath wrote:
Each win is +12 point, each loss is -12 points.
If your opponent is favored, you lose less and win more points.
If you are favored, you lose more and win less points.
If you win and have points in your bonus pool, your total point gain can be doubled but no more.
i know it not that simple, i won 20 pts this morning from a guy who was favoured
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The next time I play a string of games, I will write down whos favored, and how much points I win/lose, but I am positive the system is complete junk and is not as simple as that kid posted above (+12 or -12 everygame, I wish! that would be awesome. I never get more than +10 for a win unless it counts my bonus pool, which only lasts 1-2 games after a week of not playing)
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It is definitely bugged. I have had a similar issues and there have even been times when I first log on and I win my first game with +12 for the win +12 bonus for a total of +24 and it doesn't even register on my ladder total! I reported in on the beta forums but nobody replied.
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for me is the other way around. I lose less and win more for each game.... Tho i only play on the weekends because im away from home on the other days.. But it working great for me.
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On April 12 2010 02:49 TryThis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 02:10 spinesheath wrote:
Each win is +12 point, each loss is -12 points.
If your opponent is favored, you lose less and win more points.
If you are favored, you lose more and win less points.
If you win and have points in your bonus pool, your total point gain can be doubled but no more.
i know it not that simple, i won 20 pts this morning from a guy who was favoured
You probably got a total of 8 points from "opponent favored" and "bonus points used". You can view your points split up.
On April 12 2010 02:59 Skyze wrote:
The next time I play a string of games, I will write down whos favored, and how much points I win/lose, but I am positive the system is complete junk and is not as simple as that kid posted above (+12 or -12 everygame, I wish! that would be awesome. I never get more than +10 for a win unless it counts my bonus pool, which only lasts 1-2 games after a week of not playing)
+12/-12 and some additions/subtractions. Be sure to write down the points split up if you do that.
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On April 12 2010 01:51 Skyze wrote:
It should be like the older ladders, WC3 or Iccup even, where you win and go up so many (in those cases, +100) and when you lose, you lose only 50 to 75% of the win.
You might be having issues with the points gained, but mathematically speaking losing less than the winner gains will favor players who finish more games.
Lets take two players with a 50/50 ratio and an average gain of 10 points per win ... and I assume they are independant from the duration of the game (and this seems to be the case).
- One finishes games in 10 minutes gets 3 wins and 3 losses in an hour. He gains 30 points and loses 15. Net gain 15 points per hour.
- The other finishes games in 30 minutes and gains 10, but loses 5 points. Net gain 5 points per hour.
The point is that the "rushing players" will gain more points and dominate the ladder. He could even have a worse win/loss ratio than the "macro gamer" and still have more points. This is a problem for two reasons:
- Equally good players will be placed according to their playing style. This will result in a more boring ladder, because you are - more or less - playing against your own style.
- Players will get invited to tournaments according to their position on the ladder and thus the rushing players will get "rewarded" more with publicity. This might be bad for the eSport, since the games will be of equal style instead of a wider diversity.
So if the lost points is lower than those gained, the gap increases. If they are the same (AND if the duration of the match gets figured into the points) your playing style doesnt matter for your position on the ladder and you are going to play against all types of players to have a wider variety.
Hopefully the rather boring - to a spectator like me - rush games will not play as much a role once the maps get larger, but opening with proxy-cheese might still work anyway.
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EPT
