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Well this are my solutions for the the 3 most generic units in the game ; (marauder , immortal, roach)
They should change the marauders attack from 10+10vs armored, to 7+14 vs armored , so they are not the answer to all ground forces , still great vs armored units , but much more easily countered.
And they should also change the immortals atack from 20+30vs armored, to 15+ 30 vs armored, a small nerf, but it would be also much much more easy to counter them.
And i also think that roaches atack that is a plain 15 should be changed to be part bonus , so they have a unit type that counters them. ( zerg alredy have to much units with a generic atack ( no bonus atack) zergling, roach, hydra, ultralisk , mutalisk, corupter,broodlord , none of these units have a atack with bonus to something :o !)- no wonder the zerg feel so limited.)
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Marauders are fine. They don't do much to non-armored units, for their cost, and are absolutely butt raped by immortals. How they do against gateway units is not relevant because the counter to them is in the robotics, and with chrono you can build 2 immortals in the time 1 barracks makes 1 marauder.
Also once you have charge I can't outmicro shit with marauders  And you greatly overhype medivacs - they run out of energy ridiculously fast, and recharge painfully slowly.
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roaches have a bonus vs light units 
edit: i thought so xD
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On April 05 2010 02:38 green.at wrote:roaches have a bonus vs light units
since when?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On April 05 2010 02:04 Zato-1 wrote:The unit combo that should counter marauders in PvT, is Zealot+Sentry. They both have light armor, guardian shield lets zealots take 7 damage to their health per marauder attack, and force field helps you sandwich marauders so they can't run away. What's missing from the equation, IMO, is the suggestion I made in this thread: make the marauders' attacks root them in place for the duration of their attack cooldown. If you give marauders a move command after an attack, this would make them start moving only when their next attack is ready- they'd have to sacrifice damage in exchange for mobility. Add zealot charge and protoss might be able to tackle mass marauders (against bigger numbers, add psi storm / colossi).
I don't like that, they might as well just remove the marauder from the game then because it'd be boring to use
Zealot/Sentry/Stalker already does a number on marauders early game anyway >_<
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What if they made stalkers light armored? Would that fix it? Hellions then do bonus damage to zealots + stalkers, forcing people away from marauder compositions.
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Well, for one - Immortals are expensive as shit lol
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On April 05 2010 02:38 Louder wrote:since when?
they don't? haha that would be nice.
shame on me and sorry for the confusion
@marauders: i play a opening with gateway then forge and if i see mass marauders i place 1-2 cannons at my choke. i then go for a voidray and force turrets. my ground units are stalkers/immortals and a few sentries.
I tried this only once so far so i cant rly tell if this works well or not. But this one game i ended up beeing up 1 base and just went for 4 carriers
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Give marauders 3 or 3.5 or 4 range instead of 6. They can keep the slow, but the reduced range would cut down their power when used en masse, especially against infantry. I haven't played against tanks very much, but they are pretty devastating against zerg, so I'm just putting that out there in case people decide to argue, "if marines and marauders both have less range than hydras we will get raped by fungal growth and hydra armies!!" I think making the range shorter would give the terran army more diversity (although, I'll concede that zerg also suffers from much of the same stigma; but that's another topic).
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I'm only high gold Terran but all my games are vs plats and I've beaten many top 10 plats. Here is my perfect patch though:
Terran
Marauder change 1: Build Time increased from 30 to 40 seconds: I find it ridiculous you can almost match marines 1 for 1 in build time. Before you could make a reactor but now reactors take twice as long as a tech labs. 2 Marines barely beat 1 marauder and it gets worse when you get higher numbers and marauders shoot/run.
Marauder change 2: No stimpack. Should be removed completely from marauders.
Justification: Marauders are definitely too good. Even vs Terrans because you can't make enough marine's to stop them.
Reaper change 1: Jet packs is a cheap upgrade say 50 mineral 25 gas taking x seconds to upgrade.
Reaper change 2 (only if change 1 is done): buff reapers, cost decrease and hp increase.
Justification: Reapers are only good extreme early game and suck any other time. Making jet packs an upgrade gives people time to prepare against cheesy 1 reaper rushes and justifies them getting rightful buffs to make them a more useful unit at any other point in the game.
Raven change 1: gas cost reduced to 150 gas.
Justification: Ravens cost too much gas compared to observer/overseer.
Protoss:
Immortal change 1: Hardened shields changed so that you take the first 10 damage. Then it blocks the next 10-20. The rest goes through.
Justification: They hard counter tanks too much. If hardened shields only blocked 10-20 damage it would still block most bonus damage from +armored units.
Zerg:
Roach change 1: Food count up to 2.
Justification: Kinda obvious but they are too good because they only take 1 pop space.
Corrupter change 1: bonus damage changed from +10 to massive to +10 to armored.
Justification: this would make them about the same damage as vikings. All massive are armored anyways (anything a corrupter can hit at least). Might even up base damage and reduce bonus damage a little.
Anyways my 2 cents 
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On April 05 2010 02:43 zerglingsfolife wrote:
What if they made stalkers light armored? Would that fix it? Hellions then do bonus damage to zealots + stalkers, forcing people away from marauder compositions.
it's a vicious circle.
each race is too reliant on roach/immortal/marauder throughout the entire game.
this is probably the reason why noone even bothers making tier3 units, because they're terrible against these tier1.5 slush units.
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On April 05 2010 01:45 floor exercise wrote:
Ghosts are not factory units Yeah, for Terran to actually build both Barracks and Factories may be too much to handle. Only one building and one unit should do the trick.
Have you ever seen a Protoss who has not built both a Gateway and a robo? You think it should be standard for a race to just have to built one building, rally them into the opponents base and then mass one single unit? There is even an entire thread dedicated to that successful strategy with hundreds of comments here on TL. Don't even need to a-move or micro, just rally and you're good to go.
Someone may even be able to convince themselves of how skilled they are while doing this.
Seriously though, there is obviously something that has to be done about the Marauder. It doesn't even have a counter, cost for cost it even beats the Immortal (which is suppose to be THE counter unit against it).
Personally I think the Roach, Stalker and Marauder are way too similar, with just gimmicks separating them apart. 5 years in development I would have hoped Blizzard could come up with a greater diversity than this.
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On April 05 2010 02:57 hoovehand wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 02:43 zerglingsfolife wrote:
What if they made stalkers light armored? Would that fix it? Hellions then do bonus damage to zealots + stalkers, forcing people away from marauder compositions. it's a vicious circle. each race is too reliant on roach/immortal/marauder throughout the entire game. this is probably the reason why noone even bothers making tier3 units, because they're terrible against these tier1.5 slush units.
I don't understand how that answers my post
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Marauders are made for kiting (supposed to be support I think). If you seriously nerfed their range then you might as well remove the slowing effect.
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On April 05 2010 02:53 pieisamazing wrote:
Give marauders 3 or 3.5 or 4 range instead of 6. They can keep the slow, but the reduced range would cut down their power when used en masse, especially against infantry. I haven't played against tanks very much, but they are pretty devastating against zerg, so I'm just putting that out there in case people decide to argue, "if marines and marauders both have less range than hydras we will get raped by fungal growth and hydra armies!!" I think making the range shorter would give the terran army more diversity (although, I'll concede that zerg also suffers from much of the same stigma; but that's another topic).
Tanks suck ass against Zerg. Try using Mech against a competent Zerg, and watch him take half the map and come busting you down with 70 Roaches.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 05 2010 02:57 hoovehand wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 02:43 zerglingsfolife wrote:
What if they made stalkers light armored? Would that fix it? Hellions then do bonus damage to zealots + stalkers, forcing people away from marauder compositions. it's a vicious circle. each race is too reliant on roach/immortal/marauder throughout the entire game. this is probably the reason why noone even bothers making tier3 units, because they're terrible against these tier1.5 slush units.
Protoss are scarcely reliant on Immortals at the moment lol. Their use is marginalized as the game progresses in favor of Colossus typically. That is, unless the terran is pure mech or the Zerg pure roach.
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2 supply cost on roaches is nonsense. Roaches have insanely low attack speed and move fairly slow. Just because they have high damage and HP it doesn't mean they compare to other 2 supply units. 1.5 supply would be ok, but 2 is too much. But 1.5 isn't practical.
Zerg also needs to have large unit counts or else it won't feel like zerg anymore. So instead of increasing roach cost, decrease roach HP.
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On April 05 2010 03:01 Rothbardian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 02:53 pieisamazing wrote:
Give marauders 3 or 3.5 or 4 range instead of 6. They can keep the slow, but the reduced range would cut down their power when used en masse, especially against infantry. I haven't played against tanks very much, but they are pretty devastating against zerg, so I'm just putting that out there in case people decide to argue, "if marines and marauders both have less range than hydras we will get raped by fungal growth and hydra armies!!" I think making the range shorter would give the terran army more diversity (although, I'll concede that zerg also suffers from much of the same stigma; but that's another topic). Tanks suck ass against Zerg. Try using Mech against a competent Zerg, and watch him take half the map and come busting you down with 70 Roaches.
Yeah, you can't a-move your tanks into their army. Use some positioning.
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On April 05 2010 03:03 pieisamazing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 03:01 Rothbardian wrote:On April 05 2010 02:53 pieisamazing wrote:
Give marauders 3 or 3.5 or 4 range instead of 6. They can keep the slow, but the reduced range would cut down their power when used en masse, especially against infantry. I haven't played against tanks very much, but they are pretty devastating against zerg, so I'm just putting that out there in case people decide to argue, "if marines and marauders both have less range than hydras we will get raped by fungal growth and hydra armies!!" I think making the range shorter would give the terran army more diversity (although, I'll concede that zerg also suffers from much of the same stigma; but that's another topic). Tanks suck ass against Zerg. Try using Mech against a competent Zerg, and watch him take half the map and come busting you down with 70 Roaches. Yeah, you can't a-move your tanks into their army. Use some positioning.
What the fuck kind of statement is that? Do you just assume everyone you are talking to is a copper/E- player? How about you play Terran and play the top players and show me how its done. Until then, stop theorycrafting.
If you nerf Marauders and don't buff Tanks in response, Roaches will be way too powerful against Terran. Also, you can't move out as Terran until you get Ravens, because of Roach burrow. So if you play Mech you are stuck inside your base and have to rely on Hellion for harass, which, on many maps sucks ass because 2-3 roaches can block ramps.
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On April 04 2010 19:34 Spaylz wrote:
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Just add a 10 second cooldown to the slow. Blink isn't an initial skill, neither is Charge or Storm. Pretty much every spell any Protoss unit may have (aside from Sentries - THANK GOD) has to be researched. What do Terrans have to research exactly ? Slow is given, so is Snipe, EMP, Medivacs' healing ability, the only thing I can think of that needs researching is Cloak..
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Although you said spell, slow is just another ability, let me list "free" protoss abilities for you.
Protoss abilities that do not need research:
Immortal - hardened shield
Dark templar - permanent cloak + archon warp
Sentry - force field + guardian shield
Warp Prism - phasing mode
Colossus - cliff walk
Phoenic - graviton beam
High templar - feedback + archon warp
Void Ray - prismatic beams
Mothership - cloaking field + vortex + mass recall
Observer - permanent cloak + detector
But those are hardly worth mentioning are they? I personally think Blizzard went a bit too far with abilities and will pay the price during balancing.
With the marauder nerf that just has to come some day, terran will probably have to get other boosts to stand half a chance versus protoss (as mentioned by better posters/players than me :p).
And why do people that don't have have a key post balance proposals (or in this forum at all)? Oh well.
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EPT
