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Sensor tower - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Frenzied_Tank
Profile Joined October 2009
Germany100 Posts
April 01 2010 16:32 GMT
#101
Which would still make it not transportable.
BentoBox
Profile Joined November 2009
Canada303 Posts
April 01 2010 16:37 GMT
#102
But you can still drop them and build sensor towers in places unreachable by ground units...
Only dead fish swim with the stream
Louder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States2276 Posts
April 01 2010 16:38 GMT
#103
On March 31 2010 12:22 FREEloss_ca wrote:
Scanner
Raven
Missle Turret
Sensory Tower

Therefore: Terran detection sucks?

Get out.

While we're at it, lets compare:

Zerg:
Overseer (Costs 150 minerals/100 gas) is squishy, requires Lair
Spore Crawler...

Protoss:
Observers
Photon Cannons

Terran has twice as much detection as the other races; most of which is more easily accessible.


Sensor tower isn't a detector and you can't use scan at all early game or you get owned economically. Mules just catch you up, they don't give you an edge. Ravens are tier 3 tech.

Observers are cheap and cloaked. Overseers are too fast to kill if you get overlord speed, so being squishy is irrelevant.
RPGabe
Profile Joined January 2010
United States192 Posts
April 01 2010 17:30 GMT
#104
Detection is definitely a Terran weakness. Threatening to use cloaked units actually requires a significant mineral investment from the Terran to defend himself, not including what they have to do if they want to attack.

Trying to solve that problem with the Sensor Tower is kinda silly though - it's a defensive structure. The fact that the opponent can see the radius is actually something you can use to your advantage - you're giving them incentive to avoid that area.

Gretorp puts these near his expansions all the time in TvZ because it keeps Mutas away, and they let him keep his army further away from the 'center' spot between bases. He can lean more in one direction than another.

My only gripe with Sensor Towers is that they cost a lot. I'd like to see them cost a little less gas or minerals, like 25 less in either category.

If Terran detection is too weak, another idea might be to add a second type of scan to the Orbital Command Center that only costs 25 energy, doesn't give vision, and just decloaks units in that area for a short time. Don't forget ghost emp too, which is mostly used for hating on DT's. There's no reason to build it against Banshees, and you aren't going to randomly guess where the burrowed banelings are with a 2 radius emp.
NicolBolas
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1388 Posts
April 01 2010 17:50 GMT
#105
On April 02 2010 01:21 MidKnight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2010 01:06 PanoRaMa wrote:
Not gonna comment on Sensors specifically but frankly is it really the end of the world to have 1 or 2 units be considered "useless" by the competitive gaming scene? No one seems to really mind that Scouts are too expensive, ineffective in 99% of competitive BW games, and the same applied to Valkyries, Ghosts, etc. at one point in history. They will be used by the casual gamer and add a nice element of playability to the game, and then once in a while a "useless unit" will see action in a competitive game (like the rare nuke etc.), but for the most part there's already a wide selection of useable units per race for 1 or 2 useless ones not to matter.


I doubt that is the attitude we are supposed to have in a competitive game.
I'm sure blizzard wouldn't mind buffing underused (useless) units like scouts, but they just don't want to mess anything up since SC1 is pretty big in Korea, you know..

My opinion is that if something is in a game it should be used at least once every 10 games by competitive players.

If it's not good enough to be used, why force this stupid "hey, we have soo many units and cool abilities in this game, too bad half of them are unusable at high levels" gimmick?
Just remove it, it wastes space.


First of all, it's just one building. It is not "half of them" or anything even remotely close to that. It's one. No need for the hyperbole.

Second, so? If there are "noob" buildings or units, how does that hurt competitive play? It "wastes space," but since you're arguing for the removal of it, it's not like this space was going to be used by something, is it?
So you know, cats are interesting. They are kind of like girls. If they come up and talk to you, it's great. But if you try to talk to them, it doesn't always go so well. - Shigeru Miyamoto
Doomgaze
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden89 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-01 18:03:15
April 01 2010 18:02 GMT
#106
I think the major issue with terran detection in general is that Raven is kinda bad and doesn't justify itself on the battlefield pre HSM. Maybe it's just me but I find all three spells kinda lame (though admittedly, HSM is ridiculously good).

I'd like to see some kind of overhaul on the spells and when/how they are upgraded.
El Caz
Profile Joined April 2010
Panama48 Posts
April 01 2010 19:15 GMT
#107
How about leaving the sensor tower at the same price it is, not let it reveal itself on the minimap and not let it's radius be seen on the map except if you bring a detector?

Opponents attacking blindly get owned because the terran knows they're coming but those with a detector can see the tower's reach and plan ahead or against it. It also even makes some sense lore wise, what with detectors being sensitive units that can detect whatever it is the sensor tower is emitting to sense it's surroundings.

Also, even if you can't see the exact location of the now unrevealed tower, once your detector lets you see the circular guideline of the tower's reach, you should be able to tell where the center of that circle is located.
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
April 01 2010 19:31 GMT
#108
IMO, the sensor tower as a concept hurts the game, since it makes harass a lot harder to pull off. We have few enough econ harassment drops in the game as it is, and the sensor tower isn't making it any easier.
MidKnight
Profile Joined December 2008
Lithuania884 Posts
April 01 2010 19:40 GMT
#109
On April 02 2010 02:50 NicolBolas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2010 01:21 MidKnight wrote:
On April 02 2010 01:06 PanoRaMa wrote:
Not gonna comment on Sensors specifically but frankly is it really the end of the world to have 1 or 2 units be considered "useless" by the competitive gaming scene? No one seems to really mind that Scouts are too expensive, ineffective in 99% of competitive BW games, and the same applied to Valkyries, Ghosts, etc. at one point in history. They will be used by the casual gamer and add a nice element of playability to the game, and then once in a while a "useless unit" will see action in a competitive game (like the rare nuke etc.), but for the most part there's already a wide selection of useable units per race for 1 or 2 useless ones not to matter.


I doubt that is the attitude we are supposed to have in a competitive game.
I'm sure blizzard wouldn't mind buffing underused (useless) units like scouts, but they just don't want to mess anything up since SC1 is pretty big in Korea, you know..

My opinion is that if something is in a game it should be used at least once every 10 games by competitive players.

If it's not good enough to be used, why force this stupid "hey, we have soo many units and cool abilities in this game, too bad half of them are unusable at high levels" gimmick?
Just remove it, it wastes space.


First of all, it's just one building. It is not "half of them" or anything even remotely close to that. It's one. No need for the hyperbole.

Second, so? If there are "noob" buildings or units, how does that hurt competitive play? It "wastes space," but since you're arguing for the removal of it, it's not like this space was going to be used by something, is it?


Well, this "some units are meant to be useless" is a bad way to balance games.
In SC it happened and we simply got used to it.
Doesn't mean that we just have to accept it as a norm if we can give suggestions to balance it out
BabelFish
Profile Joined March 2010
United States14 Posts
April 01 2010 20:12 GMT
#110
On April 02 2010 03:02 Doomgaze wrote:
I think the major issue with terran detection in general is that Raven is kinda bad and doesn't justify itself on the battlefield pre HSM. Maybe it's just me but I find all three spells kinda lame (though admittedly, HSM is ridiculously good).

I'd like to see some kind of overhaul on the spells and when/how they are upgraded.
I find point defense drone ridiculously good against stalkers and marauders. One can significantly cut down the incoming damage long enough for your stimmed bio ball to rock him.
cartoon]x
Profile Joined March 2010
United States606 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-01 20:15:01
April 01 2010 20:14 GMT
#111
You can target those drones, can't you? Yeah, it would make the tower alot more fun if you couldnt see it on the map.
It is not enough to conquer; one must learn to seduce.
BabelFish
Profile Joined March 2010
United States14 Posts
April 01 2010 20:22 GMT
#112
On April 02 2010 05:14 cartoon]x wrote:
You can target those drones, can't you? Yeah, it would make the tower alot more fun if you couldnt see it on the map.
Yes they can be destroyed, but the range is good enough that you can place them down behind your bio ball, forcing your opponent to run through your fire line to get to them.

As far as the sensor tower goes, I'd rather the opponents not be able to see the tower's range until they have seen the tower itself. That way, once you know it's there, you don't have to memorize the screen-and-a-half range, but you can still hide the things for sneaky forewarning.
TerranUp16
Profile Joined March 2010
United States88 Posts
April 01 2010 20:51 GMT
#113
On April 02 2010 03:02 Doomgaze wrote:
I think the major issue with terran detection in general is that Raven is kinda bad and doesn't justify itself on the battlefield pre HSM. Maybe it's just me but I find all three spells kinda lame (though admittedly, HSM is ridiculously good).

I'd like to see some kind of overhaul on the spells and when/how they are upgraded.


Wait, wut? Auto-Turrets don't do a ton of damage (although they still do quite a bit), but their massive utility is that they are treated as structures and they solidly block the grid space they occupy. Just a few Ravens can go a long way towards keeping enemy units out of range of your Siege Tanks.

Not to mention Point Defense Drones easily turn the tides of battle between Vikings and mass Mutas and plenty of other battles as well.

Kinda interesting that with HSM, Blizzard gave us a more general-purpose Irradiate (although in some ways I still prefer proper Irradiate) while with Point Defense Drones Blizzard gave us a more situational D-Matrix (but it affects more than one unit).

On April 02 2010 04:31 Jyvblamo wrote:
IMO, the sensor tower as a concept hurts the game, since it makes harass a lot harder to pull off. We have few enough econ harassment drops in the game as it is, and the sensor tower isn't making it any easier.


In that case, Nydus Worms hurt the game because they aren't harass, but rather an extremely sneaky and relatively easy way to get an entire Zerg army into the back of an opponent's base. As such, to combat them it becomes mandatory that all races be able to respond quickly to such an insane threat (as noted before, Zerg have creep bonuses and ofc their own Nyduses while Protoss have Warp Gates; Terran have pretty much nothing except Sensor Towers to offer a chance to preemptively kill anything that has a chance of getting sight to spawn a Nydus or to at least alert the Terran player as soon as possible that a Nydus is coming up to allow Vikings to be landed to kill it before 20 seconds or whatever).
Orders, Sir! Ready to roll out!
FREEloss_ca
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada603 Posts
April 01 2010 21:18 GMT
#114
On April 01 2010 18:54 EximoSua2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2010 18:37 FREEloss_ca wrote:
On April 01 2010 09:04 Jin wrote:
On March 31 2010 12:22 FREEloss_ca wrote:
Scanner
Raven
Missle Turret
Sensory Tower

Therefore: Terran detection sucks?

Get out.

While we're at it, lets compare:

Zerg:
Overseer (Costs 150 minerals/100 gas) is squishy, requires Lair
Spore Crawler...

Protoss:
Observers
Photon Cannons

Terran has twice as much detection as the other races; most of which is more easily accessible.


Attacking legendary posters is an easy way to get banned. Nice to see an ilnp post after who knows how many years.



How did I attack him? Legendary or not, this is a forum; if I disagree with someone and have my own opinion, I'm going to post it; you know, for the sake of...discussion?


Also: Sensor towers don't detect, so you should figure that out before "disagreeing".


They don't reveal cloaked or burrowed units, but they detect the location and movements of every fucking enemy unit on the map, including cloaked and burrowed units; so therefor the entire element of suprise is gone; they might as well not be cloaked or burrowed.....

Therefore, they're a form of detection.
"Starcraft...It just echos brilliance and manliness." - Tasteless
USn
Profile Joined March 2010
United States376 Posts
April 01 2010 23:33 GMT
#115
On April 01 2010 12:19 BentoBox wrote:
It's also fairly naive to rely on current trends as foundation for absolutism.


There's no 'absolutism' in what I said.
Angra
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2652 Posts
April 01 2010 23:41 GMT
#116
I like putting up sensor towers to cover bases when I push out to see counterattacks or harassment coming super early.. every once in awhile I'll build a few across the map also while I'm pushing because even though they can see them, you can see his troop movement also while they're up which is pretty nice.

I wouldn't mind making the radius smaller and having them not be seen by the opponent though.
BentoBox
Profile Joined November 2009
Canada303 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-02 05:22:53
April 02 2010 05:20 GMT
#117
On April 02 2010 08:33 USn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2010 12:19 BentoBox wrote:
It's also fairly naive to rely on current trends as foundation for absolutism.


There's no 'absolutism' in what I said.


And so your anecdotal evidence was totally meaningless.

Frankly, arguing with people who choose to let others do the work for them is tiring.

Thank you for posting.
Only dead fish swim with the stream
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
April 02 2010 05:36 GMT
#118
On April 02 2010 06:18 FREEloss_ca wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2010 18:54 EximoSua2 wrote:
On April 01 2010 18:37 FREEloss_ca wrote:
On April 01 2010 09:04 Jin wrote:
On March 31 2010 12:22 FREEloss_ca wrote:
Scanner
Raven
Missle Turret
Sensory Tower

Therefore: Terran detection sucks?

Get out.

While we're at it, lets compare:

Zerg:
Overseer (Costs 150 minerals/100 gas) is squishy, requires Lair
Spore Crawler...

Protoss:
Observers
Photon Cannons

Terran has twice as much detection as the other races; most of which is more easily accessible.


Attacking legendary posters is an easy way to get banned. Nice to see an ilnp post after who knows how many years.



How did I attack him? Legendary or not, this is a forum; if I disagree with someone and have my own opinion, I'm going to post it; you know, for the sake of...discussion?


Also: Sensor towers don't detect, so you should figure that out before "disagreeing".


They don't reveal cloaked or burrowed units, but they detect the location and movements of every fucking enemy unit on the map, including cloaked and burrowed units; so therefor the entire element of suprise is gone; they might as well not be cloaked or burrowed.....

Therefore, they're a form of detection.


You're wrong about that too.
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
stockton
Profile Joined March 2010
United States128 Posts
April 02 2010 06:00 GMT
#119
sensor tower is fine. just be glad you don't have to throw away an overlord every game you play against terran just to know if he is going banshees or not. ugh.

"here's 100 minerals and 8 supply of mine. enjoy"
Doomgaze
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden89 Posts
April 02 2010 07:00 GMT
#120
^
As opposed to "here's 270 minerals of mine. enjoy"? :D
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