EPTWhatever you do, good luck.
Really hard for newcomers. Worth it? - Page 5
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TwilightStar
United States649 Posts
Whatever you do, good luck. | ||
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Talic_Zealot
688 Posts
P.S. I want to add something. You should know that just playing the game for a long time doesn't necessarily mean you will get beyond a certain level. I personally have played starcraft for close to 7-8 years, but just recently started learning. Though playing a tooon of bgh games helped me in faster learning because i had experience with unit relations, hotkeys, costs and such stuff, I was stuck at a pretty low level. To get good at the game you must be determined and to want to research try out stuff, And to want to win badly. | ||
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Titilisk
96 Posts
If you are new to chess, of course you'll be overwhelmed in bullet ! That's the same in SC. You have to learn slowly openings, patterns and global strats / antistrats. Once you're used to it, you'll be able to go down in the arena. These days, most of players in the beta are good players. Be patient, when the game comes out, tons of practicing players will flood (because mostly of UMS), but the great matching system will provide you some people with your skill level, and you will be able to learn (and have fun !) from. | ||
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Gnosis
Scotland912 Posts
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OOl
United States65 Posts
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
But don't expect to just be able to pick up a game and be decent at it competitively -.- | ||
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ShadowReaver
Canada563 Posts
My advice would be to just have fun, learn the strengths and weaknesses of the units and races. Over time, your mechanics will improve and you'll feel yourself getting "faster". When the full game comes out and play through the single player mode, that's where you'll really see the beauty of the game and what it can bring. Then jump back online, join some friend in multiplayer and you'll have a blast. We play starcraft because we've grown with it over the last 10+ years. Most of us were teenagers when it first came out, now new generations of fans will grow to love SC2. | ||
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brocoli
Brazil264 Posts
I'm asking this because I couldn't grasp if the problem is with the lack of complexity most games have these days, or if the problem is actually with frustration and lack of fun when you lose. I'll assume you have mostly the game mindset of a strong chess player throughout this post, so if I'm wrong about this assumption, then the rest of this is mostly useless. Also, when I refer to games, I'll be refering to very complex games, so even hard but simpler gameflow-wise games like tennis are out. From chess you can bring the game sense, analysis, and positionning skills, but you definitely _can't_ use the same mindset. In chess you typically will consider every possibility in the order you are the most comfortable with, and you need to use the _best_ available move else you lose. In SC/SC2, or any action-strategy game really, you need to take a _good_ move in a very short timespan; what I call a good move is a move that will require your opponent to react a certain way and demand a certain level of skill. This is because these games are not turn-based, and any time lost translates into a "free turn" for the opponent to make a good move against you. This would translate into chess as recklessly attacking your opponent in order to bring his pieces into vulnerable/less useful positions, even if you risk losing a piece in the process. I am a very "action" game guy, and when I play chess, or slow fighting games (a "slow" fighting game is one where small mistakes are easily reactable and severely punished, so it encourages a very safe play. A "fast" one has more escape paths, more multi-use moves, and give players less time to react) I find myself doing this kind of "reckless" thing (and losing) often. This "slow-fast" measure of games heavily influences the optimal thought pathway -the mindset- to play it. And learning a new mindset _will_ lead to frustration and a lack of fun at first because the way your brain works intuitively will work against you instead of in your favor. If you wish to learn how to play these kinds of games though, this frustration will work in your favor in the long run as it will make your achievements much more gratifying. It was this way for me with danmaku shooters : for someone who could play games like Worms Armageddon and GunZ: the Duel decently well, suddenly being unable to complete a game at the Easy difficulty, even though it is about 100 times easier than the hardest difficulty setting was quite a big deal. Today though, 2 years later, I can consider myself a good danmaku player (I can complete touhou games in lunatic with some specific practice, and even got some nicely placed scores in the games I specialize), and it is _extremely_ gratifying, even though the very genre of these games have some sort of in-built frustration device even for experienced players, lol. Also, like any hard action game, at higher levels SC requires a lot of physical and mental endurance, so overcoming this will be yet another large step that will lead to frustration at first and a lot of gratification afterwards. So the decision is up to you, just make sure you set your main goal to learn and not to win at first if you decide to play. If I have guessed right your mindset, then it is inevitable that you'll not experience much fun at first, but if you maximize your learning of the game, and can recognize when you're getting better, then I would say you'd need about a 2-3 months to start to feel satisfied. The fun will then only increase at that point onwards for a long time (years worth of). You only need sheer practice to overcome the physical and mental aspects like APM, tension management, physical endurance, etc... for the rest you can greatly speed up the learning process by playing smartly and making learning plans. I'd say if you have enough time, then it is a great idea to start playing SC2, but keeping all this in mind. And if you do, good luck =) | ||
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
On March 25 2010 10:14 Kantutan wrote: Dustin Browder stated himself that a new player jumping into beta right now would be like a newbie jumping into WoW level 80 PvP. Multiplayer will obviously be difficult for new players, if you wait for the actual game to be released and play single player, that would help you get a lot better. And yeah, don't worry about getting better while you're a new player, just enjoy it. You could always pass the SC1 campaign for now, some of those skills will transfer over. haha I've only played Wow like 3 times but I'm pretty sure I could jump into level 80 PvP and be competitive there in like 2 hours if someone gave me the right equipment. | ||
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
On March 25 2010 23:13 Luddite wrote: haha I've only played Wow like 3 times but I'm pretty sure I could jump into level 80 PvP and be competitive there in like 2 hours if someone gave me the right equipment. wow leveling/social masturbation is kinda HERP DERP but don't be ignorant man. You need alot of knowledge of all classes and spell timings, etc in order to be really competitive in pvp wow. | ||
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whiterabbit
2675 Posts
About the topic. I had similar problem myself as well. Played mostly FPS and MMO games with some SC:BW/WC3:TFT games, just for fun, never even tried to be actually good at them. I followed SC:BW/WC3:TFT scene, watched replays and such but I always enjoyed more playing Quake for instance.  When Blizz announced that SC2 is soon to be ready to enter Beta stage I started playing SC:BW again, a bit on Battle.net and ICCup (D/D+) and now when SC2 beta started and I got a key felt being owned all around in custom games. Played custom games because I thought I'll play other newbies as well, but when I found out how to "check stats" of my opponents I realised I played even few Platinum league players so I started with Placement matches. I am currently in Gold league and things that helped me to become better and actually enter Gold league even if I never played SC:BW/WC3:TFT games were: - Streams, here at TLnet. - Picking Race that I felt I could do most in early game. - Watching replays of decent players and trying to understand things like "Why he is building *that* against *that?"; "Why is he using *that* strategy on *this* map against same oponent and/or race and not on *that* map?"; And so on. - Trying to understand reactions and decisions in fights while watching replays/streams. - Finding a player who is as same or similar level of SC2 knowledge and have a fun games with him. - Just playing the game. While you are playing, even without desire to become better you are still learning things. - Learning few "tricks" with your Race of choice, tricks you can pull out and surprise your opponent. - Etc. I am sure that if you put at least some time now in playing and learning SC2 while it is beta, you will feel decent and much better when game gets released and you encounter people who will have same problem as you have now. Try to have a look at this Beta and your current experience as new player as preparation for great fun, decent matches, great wins and such when game comes at stores. And as many said before me, from your position you really shouldn't think or even aim to become competitive for now. Just try to have a great time with super-great game! Good luck! | ||
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IronWolf
South Africa315 Posts
To the OP - Is it worth learning - ABSOLUTELY. If you don't find it fun just learning the game then this is not for you. It is a complex game and you will find satisfaction in mastering the multitude of aspects the game has to offer. Yes you will loose alot - very few players don't loose a ton of games. All of them are fun tho! gl hf | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32071 Posts
I'm sure beta also has a bit to do with your learning curve. Most of the people opting in are BW/WC3 players, and while SC2 is obviously different, they're gonna have an edge. When the full game comes out, there will be an influx of true newbies. Plus, even with some flaws, AMM will pretty much put you against people relatively close to your skill bracket. I really don't think you need to be the best or log a gazzilion hours a week to get enjoyment from something. I'm in the same boat, about to be 25 and going to school again, so I'm not gonna be playing like how I was at 15. But it's still fun to play for me, even with just a few hours a week. | ||
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
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evilK
Spain34 Posts
Broadly speaking, i completely agree with the "you level up > your character level up" concept, and also that the idea is to have fun getting better, not winning. That's absolutely rigth, and believe me when i say that i understood that too many years ago, it's a key concept about playing anything in life. But let me say that while i've been reading the posts, i realised that i was much more interested in the ones that talked about the reasons for play or not to play; the things, skills, etc that playing SC would contribute to my life, rather than posts that talked about the game itself, and i'm not sure if that's a good symptom. I've found specially interesting the brocoli's post when he asked: OP, you said that you "are getting a little tired of videogames", but what aspect of them is not pleasing you? I'm asking this because I couldn't grasp if the problem is with the lack of complexity most games have these days, or if the problem is actually with frustration and lack of fun when you lose. The problem is not to not having fun when you lose (i strongly think that somebody who can't have fun while learning something will never be able to be really good at it, cause to be really good to a true complex game yo HAVE to lose millions of time, you'll have to play with people who are way better than you and obviously will destroy you, but that's the greatest lesson you can receive for get better). Is not the lack of complexity either, the problem i'm lately seeing with games/videogames in general is the lack of meaning of their complexity/effort. "Fun" is simply not enough reason. I'll try to explain what i want to say when i say that i'm getting tired of games..what i feel is that i search things like SC2 just because my brain (and also the ones of some smart friends, and probably some of you could feel identified in some way), is somehow addicted to the kind of deep and complex task that some games can provide. Like someone said before, SC (or chees, or whatever whant to say) is just the perfect escape to real life. I mean, my real life, and everyone life, is a really complicate thing/game to handle by itself, and instead confront it, instead try to play better at my life as a whole, i immerse myself into so many different complex and hard games/tasks...and keep hiding of the real difficult tasks of my life, which are probably harder than playing chess,SC or whatever, but less rewarding at short time. So, trying to sum up, for me gaming is interesting because it implies learning, and i really think that learning something is one of the best things you can do in life. But what i'm starting to feel a bit tired about is for learning the wrong/useless things. To learn things that really doesn't matter. To waste my limited time in something just because my brain likes "deep and complex things", but doesn't care a shit if that complex thing has some purpose at all. I'm feeling that i'm reaching a point where "Fun" is just not enough. what i really wanted to know was if SC is a game that has anything more that just "Fun". When you play tennis al least you can feel the sun in your face, feel the life in your body, it gives you much more that only the game itself (and will only steal you 2/3 hours a week..). But playing WoW obsesively or spend all the weekend watching sports in the TV or "put here whatever activity that can be "fun" but in the end is completly empty" is really escaping of your life, and that's not the "fun" i want. Despite all this..even if i'm not sure about if learning to play SC2 has anything more than the empty "fun" factor of it, i'm quite sure that if there is a single dammit videogame which is worth to learn to play it, is THIS game. And as i'm a "complex games" junkie anyway, that reason is going to be enough for me to play, at least at the moment xP. But obviously it woud be great to have some stronger argument than that one. Thanks again. Two giant posts in a row is playing with your patience. | ||
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FREEloss_ca
Canada603 Posts
When you're a beginner, you lose a lot, but that odd win feels great, and fuels your desire to keep playing, to be rewarded with that satisfied feeling. The game only gets more fun and more rewarding as you get better. Sure, winning felt good when I was that 40 apm Terran player; but now, winning a 40 minute macro fest is just as rewarding. When you actually know what you're doing and play your heart out, winning a game and having all your hard work and decision making pay off makes it all worth it. | ||
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Knickknack
United States1187 Posts
Pursuits can be meaningful in a more or less deep way, but not, as it were, in a shallow way; so to appraise something as meaningful excludes its being trivial or silly. Pastimes like golf appear somewhat borderline here: it seems they can just about qualify as meaningful, but only provided they have a substan- tial and important recreational function (fostering, perhaps, a certain relaxation, harmony or expansiveness of spirit), or else play some further role, for example by promoting health, or furthering a professional sporting career. But lining up balls of torn up newspaper in neat rows cannot normally be meaningful. Throwing some links out: 11year old college grad says games are waste of time: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=95012 Skew: to sum up: something like if you have a good time doing it then it is not a waste http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=61775 Fayth saying poker is loads better, and responses: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=114255¤tpage=3 why play this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=673 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=14515 http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=53932 (or not) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=58581 (or not) | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
I know exactly what you mean when you say that about WoW because I have felt identically, but I have never regretted the time I spent playing SC. Its more like chess in that sense. (I also never regretted the time playing CS interestingly) | ||
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reallogic
United States65 Posts
I think Bertrand Russel put it best when he said "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." I mean sure games such as SC and Chess are all escapes from the reality we live in but honestly don't we deserve to have a reprieve from harshness that the world throws at us? However to provide more insight into your question, what can starcraft teach us that is applicable in the real world?, I think SC can teach us a lot about critical thinking, and the ability to stay cool under pressure. While the severity of the situations we face in starcraft don't even come close to situations that crop up in real life the simulation of being under pressure and being able to gracefully deal with these situations will help us find solutions when we are faced with difficult times. I feel like I'm rambling so I'm going to stop now, but I do hope this helps. | ||
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shockwave.xpow
31 Posts
1. Yes you're going to lose in beta, a LOT. However, once SC2Release comes out, you'll be ahead of the vast majority of players. So, you'll have your time to shine. 2. If you're looking for a relaxed game pace, try the FFAs. They're unranked, most of the players aren't amazing, and there's less rushing involved. Obviously, FFAs aren't the best place to learn competitive play or good long term habits, but in the context of Beta, they provide a safe way to get your feet wet. When/if you lose, watch the replay and try to emulate what the best player did, paying particular attention to his economy management. | ||
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