Why You Shouldn't Cheese in Ladder - Page 7

On March 17 2010 04:36 JTPROG wrote:


If my 10 year old brother beat Flash with a new cheese strat, you would consider him the better player? k.

On March 17 2010 04:27 JTPROG wrote:


What I meant was moreso "if you can never beat a person straight-up you're the worse player."

Which is straight up correct.

On March 17 2010 01:15 IdrA wrote:

the reason the bw meta game shifted to that is that people like to win. cheese became more rare because its inherently luck based. doesnt matter how strategically genius you are, if they scout or guess what you're doing, and what you're doing is dependent on them not knowing what you're doing, you lose. you can know how good flash is, you can know exactly what hes gonna do, and hes still gonna beat you because hes just that fucking good. how people could prefer horang to flash given that, or how they fuckin love fantasy getting allined by a trash player because he didnt wall properly, is beyond me. not only is it gay, its bad for esports. ya cheese can be exciting (because of the luck/simplicity of it, its very obvious to a crowd that when proxy bbs gets scouted the game has reached a turning point. the climax is less clear in real games), but bad players winning, and luck based games, are not good for something that wants to be a real competition.

also, oddly enough, its largely bad players (the kind who are capable of winning because of these cheesy strategies) who defend it as some kind of strategical genius. for instance, someone who would ling allin a famous player and then post the replay of it while bragging about how they masterminded the strategical flow of the game.

On March 17 2010 04:43 Xeris wrote:


How can you just make random blanket statements without providing any proof. You don't EVER define what "cheese" is, nor what "straight up" is. What does straight up even mean? How can you call things straight up or not in a 3 week old game. The only person making valid arguments in favor of 'cheese=bad' is IdrA. All you're doing is making general undefended statements and saying "IdrA is the only person that gets it"... no: IdrA is the only one providing solid evidence. There are tons of people who are disagreeing with you that are providing real evidence to support their claims.

"If a player cheeses 50% of his games and another player cheeses 10% of his games... who do you think will be a better player in a year" - that's a retarded argument. There are 3459349 things wrong with that statement.

- For example: what if the guy who cheeses 50% of the time played 10 times more. So he still has an exponentially higher number of "straight up" games than the guy who only cheeses 10% of the time.

- What if the guy who cheeses 50% is more intelligent and has a better understanding of RTS than the guy who cheeses 10%, what's going to happen?

- What if the guy who cheeses 10% doesn't watch and analyze his replays to improve his play, while the guy who cheeses 50% does.

That was the best argument you made in 6 pages and it's fucking terrible. You just sound like an angry newbie. Cheesing is part of the game. If Blizzard didn't want it to be there, they would have made the game start at mid-game stages to avoid it altogether. Cheesing adds a level of unpredictability and excitement to otherwise boring games.

Who is really bad... the player who 'cheeses' or the player who loses to it consistently? For example: I lost 4 games in a row to protosses who warp gate rushed me last week. You seem like you would be blaming "stupid cheese" for the loss, while I blamed my inability to come up with a counter to it after 4 times.

Being able to not play like a robot has very distinct advantages. If you have some really strong 'cheese' builds in addition to 'standard' builds, I can guarantee you will be a better player at the end of the day as opposed to some guy who plays like a mindless robot and does the same two builds every time.

On March 17 2010 04:26 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
man this beta is doing amazing things to charlie's ego.. he fucking wins a game and suddenly he is calling out idra.. anyone EVER thought they'd see this day rofl?

On March 17 2010 01:59 JTPROG wrote:
You won't win a tourney with cheese.

I define cheese as: A mostly unpreventable, unscoutable (in time), luck-based strategy, usually a rush, that relies on your opponent being unprepared or not knowing what to do, but would probably not work twice against the same player.

On March 16 2010 23:40 rackdude wrote:
Why you should cheese in the Beta ladder.

The goal is to exploit the game and find whatever strategies are unstoppable/imbalanced. You've basically been chosen to this, that's what a beta is for. If you think you can win every game with a cheese, exploit your heart out and make people cry on the forums.

On March 17 2010 04:27 JTPROG wrote:


What I meant was moreso "if you can never beat a person straight-up you're the worse player."

Which is straight up correct.

And who said Yellow was better than boxer? They didn't play straight-up so we don't know. Just because Boxer cheesed doesn't mean hes definitely worse, just means he cheesed that game. If he couldn't ever beat yellow in a straight-up game then yeah, he's worse. Being better and winning aren't necessarily correlated 100%.

On March 17 2010 03:32 fyyer wrote:
People who descredit cheese, especially directed at those who's defining gameplay is around it are scrubs. The game has a set of rules in place, and they're clear. Zerglings can't shoot air, SCV's can't build cannons, and a Barracks costs 150 minerals.

Does the game give a fuck if you got scv rushed? Nope.
Does the game give a fuck if you got 6 pooled? Nope.

Every in game strategy directed towards the final goal - Winning, is valid.

On March 17 2010 05:18 CharlieMurphy wrote:
lmao,



Unpreventable/Unscoutable, So like when a zerg denies probe scouts that is cheese? Luck based? Does this include calculated risks, Gambling IS a valid strategy whether you want to acknowledge it as one or not. Being Uprepared? You basically just singled out like 90% of the strategies in any RTS game. Not knowing what to do? lol? Probably won't work twice? You mean like how boxer totally mindfucked yellow and 'cheesed' him multiple times in a row?

Dude like I said, 'cheese' is relative and if you wanna write it off as 100% bad you are just plain bad.

A better definition of 'cheese' would be; a calculated gambit that often employs psychology into the strategy. Gambit being the key word here.