On March 02 2010 04:53 intrigue wrote: the units take too much initiative, and i'm also concerned about their responsiveness. i want them to do what i tell them to even if it loses me the game, instead of me praying while i watch them follow their hearts and some shit
haha exactly. blizzard should just allow users to be the boss of decisions. Units should have no preference of what to attack or whether to attack.
On March 01 2010 17:53 Mystlord wrote: I haven't encountered this bug where my units suddenly are on attack move instead of just move. That might just be me though.
As for whoever keeps on saying that workers are prioritized over other units, they're not. All units have the same prioritization - 20. The ONLY thing that I've seen that doesn't have a prioritization of 20 is a building, which has a value of 11. Unit behavior tree is: Counterattack -> target nearest unit -> target nearest building. Essentially.
@Louder: I haven't found such a serious problem with the micro or macro mechanics. The macro mechanics actually make the game more layered since they're not just basic resource boosters. Players are forced to make a choice (less so with Terran, but whatever) as to what to do with their macro mechanics.
As for "removing nearly all benefits to terrain advantages", unit positioning is still vital. Everything still works on the principle of surface area, and terrain still works around that principle, regardless of auto-surround or whatever.
I also haven't seen too much issue with target reprioritization, but if it's really throwing off target queuing, then I think it'll take all of one patch to make the code only run when the attack-move command is given rather than just a-click or shift-click.
Exactly. In short, a typical RTS decision tree for counterattack. It's why you often *have* to override when you want specific structures taken down before other structures (any RTS; this was the case in SC/BW as well). What I *do* like in SC2 (which was not the case in SC/BW) is that groups can be almost any size (instead of the SC/BW twelve unit limit) and mixed groups are possible (the inability to give air cover to ground forces bugged me no end in BW, not to mention SC itself).
I am the guy who made the SCV video, and I can assure you that I was not holding down CTRL and that I did not attack move. Why would I want to do that with my scouting SCV? I am by no means great at SC2 but I am a platinum Terran and thus know the basic controls.
I am also very sure that I do not send my initial scout with CTRL-click to the enemy base, and yet it turns around chasing my opponents scout worker half of the time.
The bug occurs more often when you spam right click, maybe most of the players who have not encountered it never spam (even in the heat of battle) and/or are very low APM users.
If you do not trust me, trust top level players such as Incontrol: Watch the following video and jump to 1:20
I don't think its a bug or that it happens when CTRL or SHIFT + A or H or whatever.
It happens all the time. I really think Blizzard should fix this. When you order your units to hold-position, they should hold position even if they are attacks. Currently even on hold position your units will just start chasing whatever unit that just comes close to it. Your units should only attack when an attacking unit comes really close to them, chase a very little distance and return back, or if it in hold position, just stand there not doing anything in every situation.
I think its really absurd how the AI controls the units instead of you. Player control should be 100% and not the stupid AI making decisions for you.
Happends to me sometimes too, but the most annoying thing is that rally-points behave like attack moves. If I'm contained as zerg all my new units that hatch (from the contained base that is) go attack the dude's army... While I really just want to mass up.
Someone, what happens if you A-Move and click on a enemy unit instead of ground? Will your units focus fire on that unit you clicked or will each engage the closest one?
On March 15 2010 03:54 HowardRoark wrote: Someone, what happens if you A-Move and click on a enemy unit instead of ground? Will your units focus fire on that unit you clicked or will each engage the closest one?
You cannot attack-move on a unit. Attack-move is when you click "attack-move" get it? If you click on a unit it would be "attack-unit", pretty self explenatory.
I can assure you guys that 100% it bugs even without holding ctrl. Also the AI is not as smart as people think.Units get stuck a lot.I think even more than SC1.Plenty of examples.If your probe moves and along a wall and comes across a zealot attacking it,it doesnt try most of the time to go around the zealot just stands there and gets hit.Also if you attack units with lower range than yours behing a wall of buildings most of the units stand there going left and right instead of trying to go around the buildings.
It NEVER happened to me, though I only have beta since v0.6. For me workers only attack when explicitly ordered to. You say you spam, maybe there is different meaning to double-clicking right button than single-clicking? I'll experiment tonight. Anyway, if you still get that problem a lot, set autorepair mode for your scout and that might prevent them from trying to fight anything even when you a-click.
What has happened to me a couple times though, is even if i shift-queue attack worker after worker after worker for my reapers, as soon as enemy combat units come by, the queue is forgotten and my guys try to fight back instead. But I haven't done this enough, the couple times I did it might have been my own screwup.
The AIs interpretation of your commands should be minimal. The options are all there at your disposal, they should trust you to tell the game what you mean precisely rather than second guessing everything you do.
A + click = Attack-move Ctrl + click = Attack-move (Easy to do by mistake)
Why the heck does sc2 have two different key-commands for the same order. The ctrl+click is easily made by mistake when rehotkeying groups. In my opinion the ctrl+click should be removed because A+click does the same job without any problems.
I have experimented around with this quite a bit and it KEEPS happening even when I'm not using the ctrl key. It drives me INSANE. As a useful test, load up a game w/ a friend. Walk to his base w/ your first marine, and shift click move around his hatch in circles. There's about a 50% chance that once he reaches each waypoint, the marine will whip around and shoot a drone once before marching onward. Drives me INSANE
On March 17 2010 21:56 Day[9] wrote: I have experimented around with this quite a bit and it KEEPS happening even when I'm not using the ctrl key. It drives me INSANE. As a useful test, load up a game w/ a friend. Walk to his base w/ your first marine, and shift click move around his hatch in circles. There's about a 50% chance that once he reaches each waypoint, the marine will whip around and shoot a drone once before marching onward. Drives me INSANE
Ah good to hear it's not me failing pressing ctrl... so many people on my stream constantly tell me how terrible I am and that it's 100% my fault for pressing ctrl when I'm sure I'm not.
On the other hand it's not good to hear because it means it's a problem with the game and blizzard STILL hasn't fixed it despite people complaining since the first day of beta
This is the worst thing. I spam right click a lot and it seems to trigger this behaviour more oftenly. My probe/scv/drone will oftenly turn around and attack the zealot chasing it when I try to move away from the zealot using right click.
I noticed one other really really retarded thing about SC2 AI the other day. Sadly I don't remember in which game it was and I played 20 games that day, so i'll just explain it.
I had like 4 zeals at a expo in a mineral line and through one of the holes in between the mineral patches there was a roach or something. Only 1 zealot would attack the roach, the other ones would just move around aimlessly behind the zeal that was attacking. I mean, the pathing with attack is really fucked up or something, because the AI didn't tell them to just go a bit to the left and around the mineral patches to reach the roach. It was really weird. And retarded.
EPT
