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Graphics vs Gameplay - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
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edahl
Profile Joined February 2008
Norway483 Posts
February 21 2010 15:44 GMT
#121
One thing I do notice is that there is a lot of clutter, in the form of shadows, shiny objects, bangs, w/e. I don't suffer too much from it, but it's there.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
February 21 2010 15:46 GMT
#122
On February 22 2010 00:42 0neder wrote:

I have only watched a few hours of Beta streams, and I can almost tell everything perfectly (and the Beta streams aren't full res).

Your brain is solely concentrating on watching the screen. When watching the screen becomes secondary, because your brain is focused on actually playing, you want ms shaved off reaction times in any way possible.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-21 19:30:26
February 21 2010 19:29 GMT
#123
Methinks that all the SC1 players that could find the motivation and time to overcome its limitations and get crazy APM should be more than capable to overcome SC2's interface limitations. =)
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
February 21 2010 19:35 GMT
#124
I think that players that try to adapt will, with ease, over a fairly short time. 1-6 weeks of adjustment vs less graphics appeal. Its a personal choice I guess.




To people with a nice computer : I suggest you go to graphics options and change shaders from Ultra to Extreme.


This made things alot, ALOT, clearer to me.
SirNeb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States243 Posts
February 21 2010 19:59 GMT
#125
cloaking for your own units are also harder to tell in low settings too.
genwar
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada537 Posts
February 21 2010 20:00 GMT
#126
On February 22 2010 04:35 vaderseven wrote:
I think that players that try to adapt will, with ease, over a fairly short time. 1-6 weeks of adjustment vs less graphics appeal. Its a personal choice I guess.




To people with a nice computer : I suggest you go to graphics options and change shaders from Ultra to Extreme.


This made things alot, ALOT, clearer to me.


could you post a picture with the difference?
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
February 21 2010 20:58 GMT
#127
later today i will do just that sir
shoop
Profile Joined November 2009
United Kingdom228 Posts
February 21 2010 23:29 GMT
#128
Two opinions and a question.

1. I think it is extremely silly to discuss graphics settings as a moral issue. No-one is going to be peer-pressured and/or argued into using more "virtuous" graphics settings than he (she?!) likes. But this is not a problem, since (a) you don't have to look at the other guy's monitor, and (b) if you really feel disadvantaged by the other guy's willingness to play with ugly graphics, then you can just refuse to play games with him and create games called "D- Lost Temple ULTRA ONLY!"

2. I think Blizzard should get some feedback that (a) there are some concerns with the shader effects and visibility, (b) there are issues with low graphics settings and the force field and (c) do they realise that quite a few people will want to use low settings.

3. How would you feel about Blizzard taking this whole idea a step further and creating a graphics setting that is specifically designed around making everything easy to see? I'm thinking of a sort of uber shift+tab that kills all graphics crap and just shows you what you need to see. I'm sure this would prevent a LOT of headaches in future progamers and lead to better games. It's also probably not that hard to implement.
genwar
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada537 Posts
February 22 2010 04:22 GMT
#129
Regarding the screens posted, I would love to see a Shift+Tab ability that cahnges the units to be more dominately the color assigned and bypass all the shine and junk.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
February 22 2010 06:14 GMT
#130
Ill post screens tomorrow, too busy today.

Let me say that extreme shaders + AA make the game alot easier for me to read. I played alot of HoN though so maybe I just read 3d RTS easier.


A color mod that made the units just more SOLID colors would be the best path imo and I fall in the more the graphics are fine as is than the need to dumb em down camp.
SirNeb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States243 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-22 06:28:48
February 22 2010 06:28 GMT
#131
Someone made this gif on the starcraft beta bnet forums.

http://img7.abload.de/img/sc2_fov36k6.gif

It might not seem like a big deal from 16 : 10 to 16 : 9 but I find that it's a significant convenience to have that extra inch of screen. I'm not sure if all competitive players will automatically use 16 : 9 resolution ratios but I don't see why not.
Puosu
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
6985 Posts
February 22 2010 06:29 GMT
#132
On February 22 2010 15:28 SirNeb wrote:
Someone made this gif on the starcraft beta bnet forums.

http://img7.abload.de/img/sc2_fov36k6.gif

It might not seem like a big deal from 16 : 10 to 16 : 9 but I find that it's a significant convenience to have that extra inch of screen. I'm not sure if all competitive players will automatically use 16 : 9 resolution ratios but I don't see why not.

It was actually made by a TLer and posted here earlier.
caution.slip
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States775 Posts
February 22 2010 06:45 GMT
#133
On February 22 2010 15:28 SirNeb wrote:
Someone made this gif on the starcraft beta bnet forums.

http://img7.abload.de/img/sc2_fov36k6.gif

It might not seem like a big deal from 16 : 10 to 16 : 9 but I find that it's a significant convenience to have that extra inch of screen. I'm not sure if all competitive players will automatically use 16 : 9 resolution ratios but I don't see why not.



OP here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=112931
Live, laugh, love
xlep
Profile Joined December 2009
Germany274 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-22 06:51:58
February 22 2010 06:50 GMT
#134
I like the Idea of a competitive graphics setting or a new "shift+tab" function for clearer colors, especially with Zerg.

Don't think the issue with the screen ratios will be changed. It's just too big an issue for the "bulk" of casual players if Blizzard fixes it to one ratio. Though something could be included in a "competitive" graphics setting that locks everything to equal settings for all players and can be checked by observers or kinda set as a requirement for tournaments

skill is scissors beating rock
Red Alert
Profile Joined June 2009
United States119 Posts
February 22 2010 08:17 GMT
#135
On February 20 2010 07:34 Bash wrote:
Every single competitive FPS player plays his game of choice at the lowest possible graphics settings (my TF2 nearly looks like Quake1, for example), even going as far as to use 3rd party programs to take it even further, if it's allowed. I'm sure the same will be true for SC2.

Hopefully it'll be easy to switch between graphics presets so that you can watch replays on high but play on low if you want to, though.

hah, my TF2 graphic settings are pretty high up there. As long as your gpu can get maintain a good fps, there's no reason to lower the settings on tf2.
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11552 Posts
February 22 2010 08:19 GMT
#136
Ugh, it sucks to see StarCraft optimized for 16, but it seems to be the trend with so many 16 monitors coming out. I didn't even realize the difference between 16 and 16:10 until somebody told me about it, and ugh ;_;
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
jonich0n
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1982 Posts
February 23 2010 02:08 GMT
#137
Interesting point. I'm not sure if they did this, but I wonder if Blizzard made a concentrated effort to find a nice balance between displaying near-maximum clarity and still having the game look good. Art direction is so important with games like these IMO (for both spectating and playing), especially if this is supposed to be the next big thing in competitive gaming. "Ultra" visual settings are fantastic for a more immersive single player experience and casual multiplayer, but is obviously not optimal for competitive gaming (esp at the top levels).

Unfortunately, as I'm not in the beta, all I've seen are screenshots and I'm not necessarily impressed with the lower visual quality settings, but I do appreciate the fact that they clear things up a lot...

Man, I would have killed to have been the art director for this game :D
(>'.')>
HowardRoark
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
1146 Posts
February 23 2010 07:03 GMT
#138
On February 20 2010 14:15 Virtue wrote:
Although i do frown upon the guy who chooses his settings(he can well run it at higher settings or w.e) so he get's the best view of things doesn't it seem cheap to you, no shame eh?


I have never cared much for graphics. For me the underlying mechanics of the game means everything, and the less graphic detail and more clarity the better for me.

I love to play Super Mario Bros 2 (The lost levels) because of the clarity and the cleverness of the game design. For a long time now I have suspected )and noticed) that the newer games with all fancy graphics instead lacks behind or atleast never surpasses the DESIGN and programming of older games.

Take Fallout 1 and 2 as perfect examples. The game Fallout 2 with its lousy graphics are the best game I have ever played (after Starcraft), and the funny thing is that when you compare the depth of Fallout 2 and the new graphically better Fallout 3 you will find that Fallout 2 still have more depth. If you do not believe me, try and play them, or ask anyone who played both. After a decade or more when releasing Fallout 3 the depthness did not increase but did slightly decrease, compared to Fallout 2.

The same goes with the Mario Kart series, the newest installment is lacking behind in everything but in graphics (and online play ofc), and the list can be made much longer. It seem as though in the last ten years any improvement in games have solely been on the graphics side (ofc with exceptions), and Starcraft 1 is a great example. Back in the 90ies the programmers had reached the reqiured level that would make it possible to create the perfect RTS, and so they did. Nothing have surpassed it yet, because all they seem to be able to surpass is the graphics, and for me graphics means nothing.

With Civilization IV I did my best to lower the graphics as much as possible, and the optimum would be if I could just have symbols for everything, and this was just single player games. I guess what also matters is how a person use their imagination when playing a game. Perhaps I should do a survey how people that prefer books over movies and vice versa, rank the importance of good graphics to enjoy a game.

I wish Starcraft 2 would be in 2D, but I know that they need 3D to enthrall the masses. However, I am going to turn down the graphics and enhance the clarity as much as I possibly can, and that means in single player aswell as on B.net. Would you call this an exploit?

Heck, I am planning to post a thread about the need to add an option so that you can turn the units of different players into bright different colors (to differentiate in big battles), so you clearly can tell who is who. I guess that would really enhance the viewing pleasure for a non gamer that just want to watch it on TV as other sports. I guess that is what made SC1 so popular, because even the non gamer could grasp what was happening. When watching the BETA replays now, I guess a non gamer would have hard time to pick who is winning in a big battle 2v2.
"It is really good to get the double observatory if you want to get the speed and sight range for the observer simultaneously. It's a little bit of an advanced tactic, and by advanced, I mean really fucking bad."
SUSUGAM
Profile Joined November 2007
United States177 Posts
February 23 2010 08:26 GMT
#139
On February 20 2010 05:29 Bosu wrote:
I am sure lowering the settings may make my play better and easier to focus on stuff, but I am not going to do it. I know people always say Gameplay > Graphics, but a good looking game adds to the fun.


what.
bisufanboi049
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
February 23 2010 08:49 GMT
#140
A great movie is the story and the portrayal but stunning visuals doesn't hurt.
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