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semantics
10040 Posts
I also wonder peoples thought on the ability to see health bars imo i think in tournaments and leagues shouldn't be allowed. Because it forces people to pay attention more i mean if i micro away an injured unit you have to follow it vs just take a glance and notice that the unit has low hp i just think some of the higher end micro in sc1 really benefited from not having health bars just in your face for everyone. | ||
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
i mean you're speaking as if visual clutter was meant to be part of the game which it obviously isnt since it can be turned off. | ||
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
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pat965
Canada274 Posts
On February 20 2010 12:12 faseman wrote: When I used to pub l4d wth friends I put my settings on medium and had the gamma wayyyy up. I often saw stuff they couldn't. I don't want to strain my eyes searching for minor details in black on black, when I could change a couple of sliders and BAM! Improved readability! Game looked awful, but if you want the best settings to be able to play, why wouldn't you drop them? Shaders and shadows in pretty much every game serve no purpose other than to look pretty. If you care about competitive edge at all (which you clearly don't and is completely acceptable) there's no reason to not adjust settings up or down, depending on the game or situation. Audio cues can help much more than gamma in that game. What helps even more than audio cues? Turning on subtitles so you can SEE the audio cues! In any case, play with what you're comfortable with. For a casual gamer like me, I'll be playing on ultra. If you're competitive, play with whatever you want, or whatever helps you win - but keep an open mind and try everything. Once you've learned how the game ticks, try ultra, etc. Hopefully graphical lag will go away by release >_> | ||
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BG1
Canada1550 Posts
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Darkn3ss
United States717 Posts
On February 20 2010 04:59 Day[9] wrote: Surprisingly, I found playing on low WAY WAY easier. Though I don't have beta... YET, I imagined it would be "easier" on low settings (especially after viewing some "low quality" videos!). Honestly, I think over time people might just switch to low settings for better gameplay... It's just how it is! If you care about graphics a lot but can't micro ur lings well because you just can't tell them apart quick enough, you'll be either forces to change ur settings or DIE!!! In BroodWar everything was so.... BEAUTIFUL yet simple! In SC2 everything's definitely amazingly pretty but hard to see what's going on, at times, because a lot of things sorta blend in! I think it's the over-the-top death/attack animations, etc... I mean when you have ~6 different unit types duke it out and all 6 have different attack/death animations - it's total chaos! On lower settings it's just not as... flashy! ^^ I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people never migrate to SC2 and stick to good ol' broodwar (or try it and hop back) , purely because of the graphics... Time will tell tho. | ||
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Jarvs
Australia639 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9103 Posts
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Kentucky
United States63 Posts
On February 20 2010 10:21 Kentucky wrote: Somebody has probably already said this but I don't have time to read every page In competitive FPS games it's completely standard for every top player to completely neuter the graphics settings for any game they're playing Jon Wendel still plays FPS games at 640x480, when he plays the graphics look like they're from 1999, etc They do this not just to maximize framerate (which is important in RTS too) but also to make the game more visually simple As a competitive player I can't see any reason why you'll ever want to raise the graphics settings above their lowest levels In fact, as a competitive player you'll probably wish you could drop the graphics settings even lower. Like, to 2d. The underlying game is coded in 2d so it wouldn't be impossible if Blizzard wanted to do it. | ||
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Asta
Germany3491 Posts
Also happens for workers. That's always the big concern with 3d rts I think. | ||
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PGHammer
United States132 Posts
On February 20 2010 07:34 Bash wrote: Every single competitive FPS player plays his game of choice at the lowest possible graphics settings (my TF2 nearly looks like Quake1, for example), even going as far as to use 3rd party programs to take it even further, if it's allowed. I'm sure the same will be true for SC2. Hopefully it'll be easy to switch between graphics presets so that you can watch replays on high but play on low if you want to, though. From what I've seen, SC2 allows you to run replays on *different* settings than what you play at (if you run your replays from within the game). I've dinked around with the settings (replays only) following the various hack-for-replay-only posts for the client (on other sites, not here) and because of the format used for replays, even though the settings for the players may be higher/lower, you can dial the replay viewing settings up (or down, if needed) depending on your own system's capabilities. For instance, I can view the replays at 1360x800....in a window (and rather smoothly at that, even on medium detail/32-bit color), despite GPU capabilities that would be considered (by many, including me) weak/wimpy (HD3450 PCIe, 256 MB DDR2). SC1 can't run in a window at all. (Worse, it has no in-game resolution settings option.) As far as SC1 goes, I do have that package (Anthology, which is an updated BattleChest), so I'm not talking out of my hat there. (By the by, what are the typical resolution settings for Anthology? 640x480? 800x600?) If they keep that option (and I see no reason why not), it will definitely change the way map-making (one of SC1's strangths) is approached! (I can actually see most maps being created at the tallest resolution and color depth the designer has on call, letting the back-end itself dial down, or up, as the viewer/player desires. While common in other RTS titles, this is something that SC1, naturally, lacked; I am actually hoping that Blizzard keeps this in the final package, as it's too darn useful, not just for players, but in the AAR/post-mortem, and for mapmakers as well.) | ||
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PGHammer
United States132 Posts
On February 20 2010 16:13 Asta wrote: I noticed that I have trouble selecting individual units which are behind a group of other units. Especially when they are moving. I noticed that when I watched some roaches run downwards and I tried to select the last (uppermost) one. I must have tried like 5 times until I got it. I would have been trying to spread them apart because the last one was already dark red but failed to even select it. Luckily it was just a replay. Also happens for workers. That's always the big concern with 3d rts I think. That is a problem with any RTS with high resolutions (even C&C Generals/Zero Hour has that problem, and doesn't scale as high as SC2); it's not unique to a 3D RTS. If, like most of us, you're coming to SC2 from SC1, it's actually made worse by SC1's deliberately-limited resolution capabilities in comparison. (The same applies whenever a generational change occurs within an RTS cycle; imagine what those of us that had cut their RTS teeth on the original C&C faced when moving up to Tiberian Sun (which has greater resolution and detail options than the original C&C); it's a paradigm shift, and a major one.) It's not unique to SC2 by any means. Still the twelve years between Brood War and the SC2 beta (and capability increases in hardware and software along the way) show not just how far ahead of its time SC1 actually was as far as details went, but how far the fall has been since. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On February 20 2010 10:14 Virtue wrote: Okay would you play any boardgame that had no game art or was drawn by a 2 year old? No that's my logic it makes perfect sense. And playing an 11 year old game vs intensionally crippling the looks is much different. Would you turn up the gamma on your tv when you watch a horror movie so you could see everything better? Imo it ruins atmosphere. Actually I couldn't give less of a shit about the art of boardgames. I dont play monopoly cause it's so pretty. Also the OP is a competitive gamer, its not comparable at all to watching a horror movie. Starcraft multiplayer doesn't really have any great atmosphere anyways, were not talking about single player here. | ||
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Cybren
United States206 Posts
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Vic.nQQ
Bulgaria88 Posts
On February 21 2010 02:17 Cybren wrote: It's not that it's "exploiting", but it's certainly unfortunate that competitive SC2 will be uglier than "casual" SC2 . It creates another barrier to entry, and one that the first game didn't have. Observer can always have graphics maxed so even if that is the case (and the pros themselves play with low-end graphics), we as spectators will still enjoy the eye-candy  | ||
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PGHammer
United States132 Posts
On February 21 2010 02:26 Vic.nQQ wrote: Observer can always have graphics maxed so even if that is the case (and the pros themselves play with low-end graphics), we as spectators will still enjoy the eye-candy Precisely! That is why I love the customization options for viewing replays in the beta, as it actually makes whatever resolution the players used irrelevant - instead, you can dial up as far as YOUR computer can stand! That alone makes in-game replay viewing better than streaming (for the most part) if you have a PC within the SC2 playability range, which seems to be far wider than is typical for an RTS. In other words, competitive SC2 will only be "uglier" than casual SC2 if you watch a streamed/screencapped replay from outside the game. From within the game (or BNet 2) however, the resolution settings used by the players will be pretty much irrelevant. I tend NOT to play an RTS online (I seldom played SC Anthology over BNet); instead, I played campaign, skirmish, and (where supported) LAN play. However, with the ability to custom-view replays, I may well grab some replays to view/dissect to hints/tips/etc. (This is, from my experience, unique to SC2; I know of no other RTS that lets you view replays at a resolution independent of the players - in either direction.) | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On February 20 2010 07:44 Catch]22 wrote: What? Watching CS players they most def do NOT dial it down to the lowest setting so I don't know where you are getting your sources from. CS players aren't allowed to anymore, otherwise they would. It's like forcing 32bit instead of 16bit for smokes. We would do everything allowed to mess with smokes and textures, but they all got banned pretty quickly. What Day9 is talking about is common practice for any competitive game. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
but seriously, downgrading grafix to the point where you only have some one colord triangles running around is as old as competive gaming. if some chooses to watch ugly crap just to see something 0.002% faster in 1/10 of the situations then let him be. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
I have only watched a few hours of Beta streams, and I can almost tell everything perfectly (and the Beta streams aren't full res). | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On February 20 2010 14:19 Virtue wrote: That may very well happen in lan tournaments, but it's by no means unfair because every person has access to the same options, and they're built in to be readily accessible by players. Stacking workers is a glitch. Going to the options and video settings menu is not.But that's the intent of changing up graphics esp in FPS games in CS you can set it so poorly with console cmds you can practically see though objects, that's what i'm really talking about. Also low isn't perfect some spells don't show up as good as on like ultra I feel tournaments should all be played with the same graphic settings which i would hope would be high. 16 bit smokes were the single exception in CS. Everything else that got banned were console commands, not easily available, that were part of the game engine and couldn't be easily restricted without server mods (which actually became required at one point.) If you don't think "exploitation" is part of competition, then I have to believe you've never competed in anything before. The best competitors, in any arena, push the limit on what they can get away with to earn an advantage. The "spirit of the game" is ridiculous. If you have a legal advantage, you use it until it's no longer legal. The Olympics are a perfect example. | ||
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