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Graphics vs Gameplay - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Tdelamay
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada548 Posts
February 24 2010 03:43 GMT
#161
Fair enough, each player can use the settings they prefe - I'm wondering though, what settings are best for viewing/commentating a match? Units need to be distinguished from player to player and the graphics also need to be appealing to the eye.

Could anyone come up with an answer?
This road isn't leading anywhere...
zomgzergrush
Profile Joined August 2008
United States923 Posts
February 25 2010 07:29 GMT
#162
On February 20 2010 06:11 asdfTT123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2010 05:57 hoborg wrote:
One problem Low has vs High in terms of readability is that the force fields are much harder to see:
Low:
[image loading]

Ultra:
[image loading]


Might be just one setting you can up to fix that, though.


If this is so, it might be nice to address this issue to Blizzard as feedback as it would put some players who either prefer low or have a lower end system at a disadvantage.



It's not a bug or design flaw. This is prevalent if you play a lot of FPS games (smoke grenades in CS:S anyone?) and actually mess around with graphics settings a lot there. Graphic settings here in SC2 like many other games aren't just "ultra/medium/low" settings on a dial cut n dry, but rather they should be thought of as a preset "profile" for options on ALL your graphics options. It is simply a convenience option for those users who don't know/don't care how to set the individual graphics settings fields.

There are other factors that affect how things are displayed. I haven't messed with it in game but the issue here is likely a shader setting. Blizzard was actually good to include descriptions of what the different graphics display settings will affect what aspects of the display.

You can play the game on a low quality profile and just fine tune that one particular graphics setting that deals with the transparency of the forcefield and similar renderings to a higher setting so that it will display properly.
Bronze skipping straight to Diamond in 40 games retail release. Bnet 2.0 ladder really takes it's sweet time to think about that league placement.
intrigue
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
February 25 2010 17:02 GMT
#163
+1 to having incredible difficulty with the zerg graphics, i can't see shit or recognize buildings without checking their names. also their projectile attacks for the queen, hydra and muta are very very hard to see, which you wouldn't think is that big a deal but it's the easiest way to check if you are in range of something or if z is target firing something.

as for protoss, the forge and twilight council look very similar
Moderatorhttps://soundcloud.com/castlesmusic/sets/oak
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
February 25 2010 17:08 GMT
#164
at first i had trouble w/ zerg graphics, but now i can easily recognize all the different zerg buildings. i think it just took some getting used to, but I still dont like how overlords are so hard to spot when hiding on top of hatcheries or other buildings
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17677 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-25 19:31:25
February 25 2010 19:27 GMT
#165
On February 26 2010 02:02 intrigue wrote:
+1 to having incredible difficulty with the zerg graphics, i can't see shit or recognize buildings without checking their names. also their projectile attacks for the queen, hydra and muta are very very hard to see, which you wouldn't think is that big a deal but it's the easiest way to check if you are in range of something or if z is target firing something.

as for protoss, the forge and twilight council look very similar


It should also be mentioned that the Zerg units and buildings look hideous (in a bad sense). So far I've seen it only on the streams, today I viewed some replays with ultra/high settings and seeing Zerg made me almost pluck out my eyes. Unit portraits are great but units themselves are beyond fugly. Also, the pink creep on the minimap is annoying as hell.
Next in the line are Protoss buildings, which are a bit too rounded for my taste and have too much unnecessary details. Protoss units are passable for the most part (except the attack animations on most things, excluding void ray).
My only biff with Terran is that most of their buildings look very much alike and it's sometimes hard to discern what's really there (might be it's just my lack of experience on the matter, maybe if I'll watch more games it'll be easier).
Another thing are the sounds, which are rather bad all the way through

I must say that I'm rather disappointed with SC2 so far. It's hard to see what's going on sometimes (almost like big battles with a lot of scrolls/spells in WC3) and despite maps looking/sounding great, I somehow can't stand how the units/buildings look.
But my personal, biased opinion aside:
It's pretty bad from the spectator perspective. In BW a single glimpse at someone's base would tell you a rough estimate of what's there. Now it seems almost impossible with everything being undiscernable from the background (zerg), looking too much alike (protoss and terran) and in most cases just lacking some characteristic features (all races).
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
zomgzergrush
Profile Joined August 2008
United States923 Posts
February 25 2010 20:33 GMT
#166
With more detailed graphics comes the burden of discernibility. It's the science of human perception.

Imagine someone playing an intense war FPS on full settings vs someone cheating with hacked textures where everything is a separate flat color.
Bronze skipping straight to Diamond in 40 games retail release. Bnet 2.0 ladder really takes it's sweet time to think about that league placement.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17677 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-25 22:58:15
February 25 2010 22:56 GMT
#167
I'm not talking about high graphic settings and model detail having anything to do with it. I just think that the models themselves are badly designed.

Take for example DoW2. Perhaps it's smaller scale but some larger battles there certainly provide the number of models equivalent to SC2 mid-game. Even in 2v2 you have absolutely no trouble of telling what, whose, how many and in what shape are the units involved.

The buildings are another story.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Striverz-G
Profile Joined February 2010
United States63 Posts
February 25 2010 23:02 GMT
#168
Medium settings plays well and still looks amazing @ 1900x1200x32.
I get it in.
Teejing
Profile Joined January 2009
Germany1360 Posts
February 25 2010 23:07 GMT
#169
Medium settings already look very fine, High settings just adds details and i cannot see what ultra does.
I can kinda always make out what unit is where, i think graphics are very nice.
zomgzergrush
Profile Joined August 2008
United States923 Posts
February 26 2010 00:54 GMT
#170
On February 26 2010 07:56 Manit0u wrote:
I'm not talking about high graphic settings and model detail having anything to do with it. I just think that the models themselves are badly designed.

Take for example DoW2. Perhaps it's smaller scale but some larger battles there certainly provide the number of models equivalent to SC2 mid-game. Even in 2v2 you have absolutely no trouble of telling what, whose, how many and in what shape are the units involved.

The buildings are another story.



My comment was directed at intrigue and everyone else complaining about discernibility.
Bronze skipping straight to Diamond in 40 games retail release. Bnet 2.0 ladder really takes it's sweet time to think about that league placement.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17677 Posts
February 26 2010 04:53 GMT
#171
On February 26 2010 09:54 zomgzergrush wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2010 07:56 Manit0u wrote:
I'm not talking about high graphic settings and model detail having anything to do with it. I just think that the models themselves are badly designed.

Take for example DoW2. Perhaps it's smaller scale but some larger battles there certainly provide the number of models equivalent to SC2 mid-game. Even in 2v2 you have absolutely no trouble of telling what, whose, how many and in what shape are the units involved.

The buildings are another story.



My comment was directed at intrigue and everyone else complaining about discernibility.


I was complaining about it too...
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Failsafe
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States1298 Posts
March 02 2010 06:45 GMT
#172
On February 26 2010 04:27 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2010 02:02 intrigue wrote:
+1 to having incredible difficulty with the zerg graphics, i can't see shit or recognize buildings without checking their names. also their projectile attacks for the queen, hydra and muta are very very hard to see, which you wouldn't think is that big a deal but it's the easiest way to check if you are in range of something or if z is target firing something.

as for protoss, the forge and twilight council look very similar


It should also be mentioned that the Zerg units and buildings look hideous (in a bad sense). So far I've seen it only on the streams, today I viewed some replays with ultra/high settings and seeing Zerg made me almost pluck out my eyes. Unit portraits are great but units themselves are beyond fugly. Also, the pink creep on the minimap is annoying as hell.
Next in the line are Protoss buildings, which are a bit too rounded for my taste and have too much unnecessary details. Protoss units are passable for the most part (except the attack animations on most things, excluding void ray).
My only biff with Terran is that most of their buildings look very much alike and it's sometimes hard to discern what's really there (might be it's just my lack of experience on the matter, maybe if I'll watch more games it'll be easier).
Another thing are the sounds, which are rather bad all the way through

I must say that I'm rather disappointed with SC2 so far. It's hard to see what's going on sometimes (almost like big battles with a lot of scrolls/spells in WC3) and despite maps looking/sounding great, I somehow can't stand how the units/buildings look.
But my personal, biased opinion aside:
It's pretty bad from the spectator perspective. In BW a single glimpse at someone's base would tell you a rough estimate of what's there. Now it seems almost impossible with everything being undiscernable from the background (zerg), looking too much alike (protoss and terran) and in most cases just lacking some characteristic features (all races).


word. it's too bad that a pokerstrategy.com TSL win couldn't land the winner as lead designer of sc2 for its remaining pre-release time. sc2 needs a serious overhaul for competitive RTS players
MrBitter: Phoenixes... They're like flying hellions. Always cost efficient.
Simple
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States801 Posts
March 02 2010 06:48 GMT
#173
On February 24 2010 12:43 Tdelamay wrote:
Fair enough, each player can use the settings they prefe - I'm wondering though, what settings are best for viewing/commentating a match? Units need to be distinguished from player to player and the graphics also need to be appealing to the eye.

Could anyone come up with an answer?

from the streams i saw when the beta first came out, playing at a lower resolution obviously meant it was easier to distinguish the units and buildings. and while higher settings looked better, lower settings were better if you were streaming

just my views
Spawkuring
Profile Joined July 2008
United States755 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 06:52:17
March 02 2010 06:50 GMT
#174
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Above is a picture comparison between low and high/ultra. When you enlarge the image, I think it explains why some people are reporting better visual clarity in low settings. The environments in low settings are much darker while the units are brighter, while the opposite is true in higher settings. You'll also notice that the building colors in low settings are different from the creep color, while in high/ultra the Hatchery is almost the exact same color as the creep. The drones in high/ultra are also slighter darker and harder to see. There's some other differences when you look closely.
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 06:58:46
March 02 2010 06:51 GMT
#175
I totally agree with day[9] here, I did the exact same thing. Although just now I was trying to find a happy medium because the animation for blings explosions is really bad, as well as the death animations of units killed by bling explosion.

Turns out that it's nothing to do with the graphic settings, the shit just looks bad lol. What ever happened to the green splat and blood corpses from the BR? Right now it's some generic combustion explosion for BOTH corpses and the blings..

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]



I can't even tell how many men were killed, I can't even tell if my blings died, or exploded since they don't leave corpses when killed or exploded either.
Are the puff of red smoke the ones who didn't explode?

Infact, almost nothing leaves a corpse. Queens just vanish, wtf?
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
March 02 2010 07:14 GMT
#176
On March 02 2010 15:51 CharlieMurphy wrote:
I totally agree with day[9] here, I did the exact same thing. Although just now I was trying to find a happy medium because the animation for blings explosions is really bad, as well as the death animations of units killed by bling explosion.

Turns out that it's nothing to do with the graphic settings, the shit just looks bad lol. What ever happened to the green splat and blood corpses from the BR? Right now it's some generic combustion explosion for BOTH corpses and the blings..

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]



I can't even tell how many men were killed, I can't even tell if my blings died, or exploded since they don't leave corpses when killed or exploded either.
Are the puff of red smoke the ones who didn't explode?

Infact, almost nothing leaves a corpse. Queens just vanish, wtf?


lings didn't have corpses in BW either, they just made blood...
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Bajadulce
Profile Joined October 2004
United States322 Posts
March 02 2010 08:27 GMT
#177
I love the "D-Lost Temple ULTRA ONLY" comment. Seriously, what's next?
+ Show Spoiler +
Lost Temple ULTRA - MEDIUM MOUSE SCROLL AND KEYBOARD SCROLL SETTINGS - ENGLISH HOTKEYS - RIGHT HAND MOUSE - MUST HAVE NO LIGHTS ON IN BACKGROUND - AND NO TV - ONLY

.. sorry, that's the first time I've ever used all caps in a forum.

I've been playing SC2 for about 2 evenings now and am not impressed. Art is subjective and moves ppl differently, but SC2 and these 3D Warcraft3-like cartoon images aren't moving me. And wtf? I'm never going to scroll to watch shit in this eye-level 3D perspective. Ya low settings for this old timer. I only wish there was a 2D setting option as well.
Planar Erratus: (www.broodwarai.com/mods/peai) Where the worlds of Baldur’s Gate, Arcanum, Diablo, Icewind Dale, Torment, and Warcraft collide with Starcraft. Don't question, just play! ... Dedicated to all my TL.net friends and old schoolers!
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
March 02 2010 08:43 GMT
#178
I love how people complain about cartooneyness and THEN say they prefer the low settings, which look more cartooney and dated than the original SC.
Ballistixz
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1269 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 09:04:22
March 02 2010 09:04 GMT
#179
i honestly cant stand the graphics on super low settings. on super low setting zergs bases literally look like someone puked all over it with food chunks for buildings. toss look like bubbles and make it seem like all of the buildings have been powered done (none of them have the power up effect look when a pylon is there so it looks like a pylon is not even there) and terrans look like leggo toys. the low settings is just so awfull to look at. almost to the point where PS1 and N64 graphics were better.

everyone has diffrent play preferences but id prefer it if when commentating a game the graphics are on ultra high so that the viewers have a visually appealing game to look at while listening to great commentary... cuz the low graphics seriously turns u off very quick. so ya its perfectly fine to play the game on w/e setting u want to play it on. but when ur commentating a replay for the viewers id prefer if the commentator puts graphic setting on ultra high for its viewer.
Bajadulce
Profile Joined October 2004
United States322 Posts
March 02 2010 09:26 GMT
#180
I don't like the graphics on any setting. It all looks distracting to me and prefer the old 2D iso games as other members have expressed as well. The title of this thread is Gameplay vs. Graphics and I prefer the former. There's just too much going on. Similar to the pic of a Pornstar at 5million pixels and you see every pimple on her ass. More details don't always make a better experience.
Planar Erratus: (www.broodwarai.com/mods/peai) Where the worlds of Baldur’s Gate, Arcanum, Diablo, Icewind Dale, Torment, and Warcraft collide with Starcraft. Don't question, just play! ... Dedicated to all my TL.net friends and old schoolers!
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