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On February 19 2010 20:09 Feefee wrote:
I think it's far too early to claim that the game "plays like war3" or that you "can't bug out Hydralisks with probes". Well maybe you can't but I'm sure nobody had a clue how to do that in the SC1 beta either.
From what I see almost every protoss goes 3 gate zealot right now. Go grab me any noob or even an expert in any RTS that isn't SC1, and have him play a few SC1 games against a 1 base zealot all-in. You sure as hell won't see your amazing micro and your incredible starcraft gameplay. You'll see the exact same thing people are doing in SC2 now: counter mass units is mass units.
I have yet to see any terran make use of his wall-in to tech up, or use siege tanks to secure map control. Is it impossible to do? who knows, nobody has tried.
I wasn't there in the early days but as far as I remember, even in the pro scene, SC1 used to be all 1base play. I bet you'd call SC1 "too WC3-like" if you saw it back then. The way people play the SC2 beta now is the way I used to play SC1 LAN games versus my friend back in the day. Honestly NO difference: one-base, just mass units. Nobody even does good scouting yet in SC2.
This is a PERSONAL OPINION but I completely disagree with this game feeling like w3, I played w3 quite a bit in the day and they're just way different. This game does not feel as slow as it looks, trust me. I sat around for 8 hours when beta came out waiting for my e-mail watching streams going "wow this is slow and easy". 100% inaccurate! The MBS has not ruined the mechanics, macro is still fun and you have to keep on it because unit's still build quite quickly, especially rax with reactor.. 2 rines at a time, nonstop. In the first 5-7 mins of the game you have more units than you ever do in w3, mostly.
His response is correct, in the early days 1 base play was HUGE, people didn't assume there was another way to play. I've tried some early expo/map control strats with T, I don't have some special BO but I didn't find it to be particularly effective thus far. Due to mules your eco is pretty darn good early game so I'm not sure a fast expo is 100% necessary, not to say it isn't the future, and totally viable. It's just not required right this moment in the "metagame" if you can even call it that lol
All the one base play cheese is sorta lame, but not everyone plays that way, and it's giving us an idea how to further deal with everything that can be thrown at you, which is always good. This game has a HUGE spectator appeal from streams i saw, but sc always did for me as well. Don't for a second believe that the way games are being played right now is the future, or will even last that long once the real launch goes global. The first couple months will be chzy and such but sometimes I think people forgot chz can be fun 
MAIN POINT - Game doesn't feel like w3. Don't assume the chz won't end, people are just testing builds and units. This will be a great spectator sport, which is huge for the community and e-sports.
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United Kingdom12071 Posts
On February 19 2010 20:36 Osmoses wrote:
Yes I think the issue of less than amazing streamed games are due to the fact that nobody is good at the game yet.
Exactly. Every game during the beta phase always gets boring to watch as nobody really understands the game yet.
I personally feel it looks fantastic.
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On February 19 2010 20:09 Feefee wrote:
I think it's far too early to claim that the game "plays like war3" or that you "can't bug out Hydralisks with probes". Well maybe you can't but I'm sure nobody had a clue how to do that in the SC1 beta either.
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Using workers to defend and make units bug around is like one of the very first thing ever used in sc1.
Many people here are either too young or started SC too late.
And you gotta quit comparing sc1 beta with a beta of a game 15 years later. -_-.
Nowadays betas are almost shipped games already.
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Also people thinking FE is a modern thing are clueless.
Grrrr... would nexus first against zerg as early as 98-99, not to mention expanding to your natural with your second hatchery was even older......
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On February 19 2010 21:39 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2010 20:09 Feefee wrote:
I think it's far too early to claim that the game "plays like war3" or that you "can't bug out Hydralisks with probes". Well maybe you can't but I'm sure nobody had a clue how to do that in the SC1 beta either.
. Using workers to defend and make units bug around is like one of the very first thing ever used in sc1. Many people here are either too young or started SC too late. And you gotta quit comparing sc1 beta with a beta of a game 15 years later. -_-. Nowadays betas are almost shipped games already.
I don't know if comparing SC2 beta to SC1 beta is so much worse than comparing SC2 beta to the current SC1 play but alright. Using workers to defend is being used in SC2 beta too, although the units don't "bug out" because of the better AI. Unless you're talking about stacking workers/hitting stop to screw up pathing in which case I'd be surprised if that was a common thing for noobs to do in the early days of SC1 (I might be wrong). I haven't even seen anyone try a worker stack attack yet in SC2, all I'm saying is that stuff like vulture micro, muta stacking etc weren't discovered 2 days after the release of the starcraft 1 beta, because nobody had thought of them.
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On February 19 2010 21:51 Feefee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2010 21:39 Boonbag wrote:On February 19 2010 20:09 Feefee wrote:
I think it's far too early to claim that the game "plays like war3" or that you "can't bug out Hydralisks with probes". Well maybe you can't but I'm sure nobody had a clue how to do that in the SC1 beta either.
. Using workers to defend and make units bug around is like one of the very first thing ever used in sc1. Many people here are either too young or started SC too late. And you gotta quit comparing sc1 beta with a beta of a game 15 years later. -_-. Nowadays betas are almost shipped games already. I don't know if comparing SC2 beta to SC1 beta is so much worse than comparing SC2 beta to the current SC1 play but alright. Using workers to defend is being used in SC2 beta too, although the units don't "bug out" because of the better AI. Unless you're talking about stacking workers/hitting stop to screw up pathing in which case I'd be surprised if that was a common thing for noobs to do in the early days of SC1 (I might be wrong). I haven't even seen anyone try a worker stack attack yet in SC2, all I'm saying is that stuff like vulture micro, muta stacking etc weren't discovered 2 days after the release of the starcraft 1 beta, because nobody had thought of them.
ok yeah, but back then people weren't looking for micro stuff like that, now due to it's success in starcraft, people will be looking for that kind of stuff and it will appear much faster
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I'd say the game plays very similar to SC1, but that it feels like I'm playing some crazy, cracked-out version of it. I swear that 'faster' just feels too frenetic compared to SC1. I'm kind of hoping that the game speeds get tweaked and that the default pace ends up close to where the 'fast' option is right now.
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Based on my terrible noob skills, I usually end up with extra minerals and not enough gas. I've been creating my first expo quite early a lot. It's difficult to build stuff like reapers without getting such a huge amount of minerals stockpiled unless I mass marines as well or build an expo. Even stalkers end up giving me gas problems while teching and having extra minerals.
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On February 19 2010 09:18 PobTheCad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2010 23:33 RANDOMCL wrote:
I... LOL. That's all I have.
I'm not saying SC2 is going to turn out as a game that'll last another 10+ years, because I have no idea. I haven't played the game, and beta just came out. However, seriously? WC2/3, D1/2, WoW... Blizzard has yet to let us down. If you're talking about the competitive "esports" world of SCBW... the players played a huge part in that. WC3 blew up for a time as well, but players moved away from the game, killing it over time. those games you listed weren't that great compared to BW War3 was slow and boring , WOW was casual friendly , i preferred D1 to D2 but i am probably in the minority here to me SC2 looks like blob vs blob , i have not seen any low quality stream so that aspect may be better on those settings but the game looks like a POS on low
WC3 was actually pretty fun. Sure, the macro pace wasn't crazy, but it was cool. Definitely different, if more random.
D1/D2 were both awesome too.
It's only the WoW dimension that has dissapointed. As a former hardcore WoW raider/PvP competing for top world ranks, I gotta admit, that game is a PoS as far as competitiveness goes, in comparison to SC.
Anyways, let's not be too hasty in our judgement. Remember remember, old smart reaver. And.... korean progaming in 1999. Wait what? I don't even.....yea.... they played like LOL back in the day, damn that game was fucking bad, why would anyone play SC? yes?
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EPT
