Verdict: Does SC2 play close to SC1?

On February 18 2010 09:13 Foreplay wrote:
from what ive seen on the stream it looks like SC but really really really easy

On February 18 2010 09:14 StoLiVe wrote:
its seems ez because there is only war3 player and they suck

so for the few starcraft player it's so ez

wait for later after few new invite

On February 18 2010 09:23 eMbrace wrote:
do we want it too play too similarly? i dont.

On February 18 2010 09:21 Kenpachi wrote:

it hurts to see war3 players get the key but not SC. WE ARE MORE DESERVING

On February 18 2010 09:31 andeh wrote:
do we want the skills that we've mastered over the past 11 years to still be useful? yes

On February 18 2010 09:33 Skyze wrote:


it'll be funny to see all the war3 players dominating the top 20 US ladder spots in afew weeks. Bank on it. At least 90%.

Its the WOW players playing right now that sucks, its no question the War3 players are probably owning SC/BW players right now.

On February 18 2010 09:33 Skyze wrote:
it'll be funny to see all the war3 players dominating the top 20 US ladder spots in afew weeks. Bank on it. At least 90%.

Its the WOW players playing right now that sucks, its no question the War3 players are probably owning SC/BW players right now.

On February 18 2010 09:33 Skyze wrote:


it'll be funny to see all the war3 players dominating the top 20 US ladder spots in afew weeks. Bank on it. At least 90%.

Its the WOW players playing right now that sucks, its no question the War3 players are probably owning SC/BW players right now.

On February 18 2010 09:33 Skyze wrote:


it'll be funny to see all the war3 players dominating the top 20 US ladder spots in afew weeks. Bank on it. At least 90%.

Its the WOW players playing right now that sucks, its no question the War3 players are probably owning SC/BW players right now.

On February 18 2010 09:33 Skyze wrote:


it'll be funny to see all the war3 players dominating the top 20 US ladder spots in afew weeks. Bank on it. At least 90%.

Its the WOW players playing right now that sucks, its no question the War3 players are probably owning SC/BW players right now.

On February 18 2010 10:03 eMbrace wrote:
Loving the SC elitism here on TL.

On February 18 2010 10:07 Kenpachi wrote:

what in War3 is better than SC
dont say graphics -_-

On February 18 2010 10:03 eMbrace wrote:
Loving the SC elitism here on TL.

On February 18 2010 10:03 eMbrace wrote:
Loving the SC elitism here on TL.

On February 18 2010 09:57 prOxi.swAMi wrote:

I'm sick of hearing this with absolutely zero logic put behind it.

I think the more intelligent and skilled players will dominate regardless of what game they previously played. How is that a difficult concept to grasp?

On February 18 2010 10:14 StarcraftMan wrote:
In the other thread, Scorch wrote:

"There have been many improvements to the UI and control. Unlimited selection, working pathfinding, no units blocking building attempts, mass macro and rally points etc."

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=112630

Those are big improvements right there.

On February 18 2010 10:41 quinnydinny wrote:
Who cares! It is a ton of fun regardless.

Couple interesting changes:

-No lurkers in the beta build
-There is an upgrade that lets Roaches move while burrowed

Now I'm off to test a Tank/Viking build!

On February 18 2010 13:20 Xaanix wrote:

I have a pretty beefy machine (dual core running at 3.8 ghz w/ 8 gigs of ram and a gtx 285) and i actually have to lower my settings to get really smooth gameplay akin to what i'm used to in sc1.

On February 18 2010 10:03 eMbrace wrote:
Loving the SC elitism here on TL.

On February 18 2010 13:20 Xaanix wrote:
This game has plenty of graphics potential behind it. I have a pretty beefy machine (dual core running at 3.8 ghz w/ 8 gigs of ram and a gtx 285) and i actually have to lower my settings to get really smooth gameplay akin to what i'm used to in sc1.

On February 18 2010 13:50 Valer wrote:


waah!!!? Can't max out on a GTX285!! LOL!!
it's going to be nasty on the min 9800

On February 18 2010 13:55 7Strife wrote:
The beta is going to leak through torrents quickly, so everyone will play. In fact, it already has.

On February 18 2010 09:36 torm3ntin wrote:

based on what?

On February 18 2010 14:05 ed21x wrote:


i think this is largely based on the fact that SC2 incorporates many of the rts improvements/advancements that we saw in wc3 in terms of being able to queue commands via holding the shift key, mbs, automine, and stuff like that. In general, wc3 players are use to that, and it will take bw players some time to adjust to it.

On February 18 2010 15:08 superbabosheki wrote:
Is it me or is the game too easy? All the things us SC players use our APM for have gone down the gutter :[

On February 18 2010 13:55 7Strife wrote:
The beta is going to leak through torrents quickly, so everyone will play. In fact, it already has.

On February 18 2010 15:11 Chairman Ray wrote:
It looks like both micro and macro have been reduced to bare skin. Teching seems to be a lot faster now. Overall, I think SC2 is battle of the build orders, simply rock-paper-scissors.

On February 18 2010 09:13 Foreplay wrote:
from what ive seen on the stream it looks like SC but really really really easy

On February 18 2010 10:03 eMbrace wrote:
Loving the SC elitism here on TL.

On February 18 2010 13:59 Jonoman92 wrote:
It doesn't look as crisp as sc1 was. It looks like it more difficult to tell what is going on from watching the streams which is kinda more WC3 like.

It's beta though so... no worries I hope.

On February 18 2010 15:33 SouLja wrote:


This

In a large zergling battle on creep it's so hard to tell who's unit is who and what's going on (on the stream i was just watching).

Maybe it's due to quality, or maybe just cause im not used to it.

Only time will tell.

On February 18 2010 15:11 TheYango wrote:

Is this based on having played the game, or from watching streams of people stomping obvious newbies?

On February 18 2010 13:52 Try wrote:
It's very simple: whoever practices more will be the better player. Additionally, I dont see why WC3 skills would be better transferable to SC2 than SC1 skills. Either way, I expect an equal distribution of gamers from both games to be at the top of the ladder. That is, if the progamers don't immediately switch =P.

On February 18 2010 16:20 Tfact_rats wrote:
I would just like to remind everyone that this is infact not the final release.. if there is too low a skill ceiling to differentiate good players from non.,. there gonna change stuff.. stop worrying and enjoy the streams!

On February 18 2010 16:06 superbabosheki wrote:

I'm basing this on the fact that it is a fact. Huge armies in one control group(less micro, less 1click2cick3click4click just to move around which is less multitask), multiple building selection(less macro, obvious reasons). It is MY opinion that the multitask for sc2 is significantly lower than sc1, hopefully a few betakey holders can confirm this.

On February 18 2010 16:06 superbabosheki wrote:
I'm basing this on the fact that it is a fact. Huge armies in one control group(less micro, less 1click2cick3click4click just to move around which is less multitask), multiple building selection(less macro, obvious reasons). It is MY opinion that the multitask for sc2 is significantly lower than sc1, hopefully a few betakey holders can confirm this.

On February 18 2010 16:43 Tomed wrote:
It will definitely take some getting used to. Anyone switching from SC1 to SC2 will certainly have difficulty distinguishing units in the battles but everyone will adapt in time. Just like when people switched from DotA to HoN. Everybody complained that they couldn't tell what was going on in HoN but now nobody wants to go back to DotA.

On February 18 2010 16:34 Seele wrote:
Every single map you must break the destructable rocks blocking the choke to get out. It's like playing NR15 man, not fun. Almost all of the games I've played people rush air.

On February 18 2010 20:13 InToTheWannaB wrote:
Unit positioning does not seem to matter at all from the games i've watched. That seems kinda disapointing to me that there is no reason to set up a good flank. Its mostly just leting to blobs clash and making your units attack the enemy unit they counter.

On February 18 2010 20:12 Tropics wrote:
People saying its hard to distinguish on a stream need to realize that this really doesn't matter because they're going to use an HLTV like system so you watch the match like you're there observing it, in the game engine. We're not going to be watching the game exclusively on youtube and low quality streams like we have been for Brood War.

That is, if they actually stick to what they've announced

On February 18 2010 22:54 StormsInJuly wrote:
I'm gonna go ahead and say I like it more than sc1 It's definitely faster paced, and there seem to be more options for harassing and various strategies. The protoss warpgates are awesome and have a lot of potential, and it really feels like all the units actually have a role.
Ofcourse, it's far too early to say but i'm having a lotta fun trying out different tactics.

On February 18 2010 20:31 RANDOMCL wrote:
Nearly everyone in this thread is making it sound like we haven't had information about this game for over two YEARS. The game has went through a ton of changes, but we've seen enough gameplay to know about the things people are bitching about. I'm all for trying to make observations from streams, but people dismissing the game as "way too easy"... get real. You're watching people play the game for the very first time, against others who are playing it for the first time. SCBW 11+ years ago didn't play like it does now. The first people playing the game on day 1 weren't rolling through with 400+ APM and macroing like gods. Give it a rest and wait for information to come, or simply wait to play the damn game yourselves.

On February 18 2010 20:35 RaptorX wrote:

Yep I really hope so, because watching streams how they are right now is useless, u cant tell the difference between units and all the animations that buildings have can become annoying over time because you see this blur over and over again... :S

On February 18 2010 23:04 Jyvblamo wrote:
I find I can distinguish most units from a low quality stream, except when they're on creep. Then I don't know fuck all that's going on.

On February 18 2010 22:59 PobTheCad wrote:

the longer time goes on with blizzard the more it seems like BW was just a lucky fluke

On February 18 2010 09:33 Skyze wrote:


it'll be funny to see all the war3 players dominating the top 20 US ladder spots in afew weeks. Bank on it. At least 90%.

Its the WOW players playing right now that sucks, its no question the War3 players are probably owning SC/BW players right now.

On February 18 2010 23:33 RANDOMCL wrote:
I... LOL. That's all I have.

I'm not saying SC2 is going to turn out as a game that'll last another 10+ years, because I have no idea. I haven't played the game, and beta just came out. However, seriously? WC2/3, D1/2, WoW... Blizzard has yet to let us down. If you're talking about the competitive "esports" world of SCBW... the players played a huge part in that. WC3 blew up for a time as well, but players moved away from the game, killing it over time.

On February 18 2010 23:04 Jyvblamo wrote:
I find I can distinguish most units from a low quality stream, except when they're on creep. Then I don't know fuck all that's going on.

On February 19 2010 10:54 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I like it more than any game i've ever played.

On February 19 2010 14:21 gumbum8 wrote:

The beta is better than anything you've ever played and you've played it for a day?
A little soon maybe lol?

On February 18 2010 23:46 jdr_ wrote:


As someone that was a pretty solid Ladder player on WC3:TFT that recently dropped WC3 alltogether to pick up starcraft, im kinda baffled at your comment.

WC3 is the easier of the two games by far, standard play is always better than unstandard play unless you're going for a pure shock win, races like human can abandon map control indefinitely and still win because towers are fucking overpowered and have been for the last 3 years.

I can tell you that as a C- zerg player i've had to master infinitely more RTS-pertinent skills than I ever had to in wc3, a game where I actually managed to use variations of fiend builds in every matchup. In WC3, map control doesn't matter(very much), macro doesn't matter, and random luck of the draw can lose you a game(tome of experience, blademaster getting a bunch of circlet drops, etc)

SC players are superior.

On February 19 2010 17:05 IskatuMesk wrote:
My opinion;

Sc2 is twice as fast as sc1. The economy comes very fast, the units do insane amounts of damage and generally attack faster as well. Big battles can end in seconds except for specific matchups. Flanking is probably more important than individual micro at this point, especially when you are talking about carriers or colossi both of which can utterly decimate most of the things you can throw at them head-on. In my opinion it's too fast, units do too much damage. At first it's very hard to keep yourself from floating tons and tons of cash but as you get used to the game it becomes easier to control that; except for gas, I'm still having problems managing gas and I always run out because I'm too used to sc1-style gas management.

Is it easy? No. Is it easier than sc1? Yes. In my experience it is, once you start getting used to it you start realizing you don't need to pay attention to units as much as you used to because the damage values are so high it devalues unit control. If you have this unit and he has that unit there's a 70% chance you'll curbstomp him no matter what he tries to do. The damage bonuses on some units, like Immortals, are insane. If they reduced the damage values considerably I think the battles would play much more like sc1 and be much more interesting.

Does it play close to sc1? It bears a passing resemblance. But the gameflow is extremely different and more bursty and sporadic. Momentary decisions have mattered more for me than strategic planning or tactical powress. I prefer sc1 over this, but sc2 has its own charm.

Readability? My friend and I built 300-400 zerglings a piece and set the pathing engine to a big test with lings and moving and ultras and such, making huge writhing masses of zerglings that filled about half the screen so dense you could only see flailing wings and legs. Was easy for me to tell whose lings were which. I have zero problems reading the game, and I'm not exactly experienced in that kind of thing. Graphics are crisp but terrain could be higher resolution, it's kind of blurry. I do not believe this a game you want to watch on a 320x200 fuzzy resolution. It won't work. You need HD streams or videos for this. That's just the way high-resolution games are. Sometimes the colors of zerg units do mesh together but ingame it's very easy for me to tell them apart. The differing quality of video codecs and such will most certainly skew this at the lower resolutions.

Performance? My i7, which they've said has performance issues, handles nuking 500 zerglings, 300 overlords, and a bunch of other stuff with no hitch. They've done a really good job with the engine. There is one way to cripple the game though - burrow those zerglings over and over and spawn thousands of burrow decals. Guaranteed to knife your fps. Battles do not impact my performance while frapsing 1920x1200. Geysers can impact my performance; probably a bug of some kind related to their distortion shader.

Everything is subject to change. My opinion now is meaningless because it's a beta. It will change. What I do now will probably not work in a month. It certainly won't apply to release. So I'm just enjoying sc2 for the moment and not caring about specifics.

On February 19 2010 20:09 Feefee wrote:
I think it's far too early to claim that the game "plays like war3" or that you "can't bug out Hydralisks with probes". Well maybe you can't but I'm sure nobody had a clue how to do that in the SC1 beta either.
From what I see almost every protoss goes 3 gate zealot right now. Go grab me any noob or even an expert in any RTS that isn't SC1, and have him play a few SC1 games against a 1 base zealot all-in. You sure as hell won't see your amazing micro and your incredible starcraft gameplay. You'll see the exact same thing people are doing in SC2 now: counter mass units is mass units.
I have yet to see any terran make use of his wall-in to tech up, or use siege tanks to secure map control. Is it impossible to do? who knows, nobody has tried.
I wasn't there in the early days but as far as I remember, even in the pro scene, SC1 used to be all 1base play. I bet you'd call SC1 "too WC3-like" if you saw it back then. The way people play the SC2 beta now is the way I used to play SC1 LAN games versus my friend back in the day. Honestly NO difference: one-base, just mass units. Nobody even does good scouting yet in SC2.

On February 19 2010 20:09 Feefee wrote:
I think it's far too early to claim that the game "plays like war3" or that you "can't bug out Hydralisks with probes". Well maybe you can't but I'm sure nobody had a clue how to do that in the SC1 beta either.
.

On February 19 2010 21:39 Boonbag wrote:



Using workers to defend and make units bug around is like one of the very first thing ever used in sc1.

Many people here are either too young or started SC too late.

And you gotta quit comparing sc1 beta with a beta of a game 15 years later. -_-.

Nowadays betas are almost shipped games already.

On February 19 2010 21:51 Feefee wrote:


I don't know if comparing SC2 beta to SC1 beta is so much worse than comparing SC2 beta to the current SC1 play but alright. Using workers to defend is being used in SC2 beta too, although the units don't "bug out" because of the better AI. Unless you're talking about stacking workers/hitting stop to screw up pathing in which case I'd be surprised if that was a common thing for noobs to do in the early days of SC1 (I might be wrong). I haven't even seen anyone try a worker stack attack yet in SC2, all I'm saying is that stuff like vulture micro, muta stacking etc weren't discovered 2 days after the release of the starcraft 1 beta, because nobody had thought of them.

On February 19 2010 09:18 PobTheCad wrote:

those games you listed weren't that great compared to BW
War3 was slow and boring , WOW was casual friendly , i preferred D1 to D2 but i am probably in the minority here
to me SC2 looks like blob vs blob , i have not seen any low quality stream so that aspect may be better on those settings but the game looks like a POS on low