• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:29
CEST 04:29
KST 11:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On8Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists4Team TLMC #5: Vote to Decide Ladder Maps!0[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Mile High15
Community News
PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition(?)135.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)77$2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 151Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada11Weekly Cups (Sept 22-28): MaxPax double, Zerg wins, PTR12
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version) PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition(?) ZvT - Army Composition - Slow Lings + Fast Banes Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada Had to smile :)
Tourneys
$2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 15 Stellar Fest Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LANified! 37: Groundswell, BYOC LAN, Nov 28-30 2025 Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight
Brood War
General
Question regarding recent ASL Bisu vs Larva game Thoughts on rarely used units RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL20] Ro8 Day 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Current Meta I am doing this better than progamers do. Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy)
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Liquipedia App: Now Covering SC2 and Brood War!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts The Automated Ban List BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final
Blogs
Mental Health In Esports: Wo…
TrAiDoS
[AI] Sorry, Chill, My Bad :…
Peanutsc
Try to reverse getting fired …
Garnet
[ASL20] Players bad at pi…
pullarius1
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1324 users

The Twelve Days of Theorycrafting! - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
DeCoup
Profile Joined September 2006
Australia1933 Posts
December 25 2009 01:50 GMT
#101
On December 25 2009 08:10 Waffles wrote:
i feel mule is a little imbalanced in island maps. in maps with island expansions like python where you have to mine it out to get it, before you require a dropship, now you do not. i feel that they need a new way to block out expansions if this were to come out.

Wow! I never even considered that! Racks->OC->CC->Mule out island + land. Allows you to take island expos way too early.
Maybe Blizzard should not let Mules harvest from High Yield minerals? That way high-yield can be used for blocking bases on islands. With the current Mule system it does not take away any decision making anyway because if you have high yield, you would always put all mules there anyway.

With Archers proposed mule changes I don't think loosing high yield mining is a big loss anyway. It would make the system loose one risk/reward target system, but his whole idea gives plently of decision making without high yield anyway. Its not that big a loss for balance.
"Poor guy. I really did not deserve that win. So this is what it's like to play Protoss..." - IdrA
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-25 05:06:30
December 25 2009 04:58 GMT
#102
On December 25 2009 08:10 Waffles wrote:
i feel mule is a little imbalanced in island maps. in maps with island expansions like python where you have to mine it out to get it, before you require a dropship, now you do not. i feel that they need a new way to block out expansions if this were to come out.




I knew this concern to arise and I am glad you brought it up to be addressed. First lets realize that mining from an island map with blue minerals is the same as mining from a mineral field in your own base except for the advantage that it does not use up minerals in your own base.


Now for the other concern, calling down MULEs on island maps with gold minerals. Allow me to ask one question: In all the maps that Blizzard has shown how many islands with gold minerals have you seen?

For all we know island maps with gold minerals could already be imbalanced towards Terrans with thier lift off and ferry 4 SCVs. Further more is it worth sacrificing awesome gameplay for one particular map set up. Are we not allowed to have cliff jumping units because they would be imbalanced in maps with no cliffs or too many cliffs? And finally isnt it still possible to balance these maps types. For instance you could put the gold minerals in range of marine, stalker or hydralisk fire. Which of course would add another interesting gameplay element.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
DeCoup
Profile Joined September 2006
Australia1933 Posts
December 25 2009 05:15 GMT
#103
On December 25 2009 13:58 Archerofaiur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 25 2009 08:10 Waffles wrote:
i feel mule is a little imbalanced in island maps. in maps with island expansions like python where you have to mine it out to get it, before you require a dropship, now you do not. i feel that they need a new way to block out expansions if this were to come out.




I knew this concern to arise and I am glad you brought it up to be addressed. First lets realize that mining from an island map with blue minerals is the same as mining from a mineral field in your own base except for the advantage that it does not use up minerals in your own base.


Now for the other concern, calling down MULEs on island maps with gold minerals. Allow me to ask one question: In all the maps that Blizzard has shown how many islands with gold minerals have you seen?

For all we know island maps with gold minerals could already be imbalanced towards Terrans with thier lift off and ferry 4 SCVs. Further more is it worth sacrificing awesome gameplay for one particular map set up. Are we not allowed to have cliff jumping units because they would be imbalanced in maps with no cliffs or too many cliffs? And finally isnt it still possible to balance these maps types. For instance you could put the gold minerals in range of marine, stalker or hydralisk fire. Which of course would add another interesting gameplay element.

I think you missed his point. You can use mules to gather the minerals out that block the CC from landing and then take the island expo before you get anywhere near drop tech (the only other way for any race to take an island expo.
"Poor guy. I really did not deserve that win. So this is what it's like to play Protoss..." - IdrA
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-25 05:23:55
December 25 2009 05:20 GMT
#104
On December 25 2009 14:15 DeCoup wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 25 2009 13:58 Archerofaiur wrote:
On December 25 2009 08:10 Waffles wrote:
i feel mule is a little imbalanced in island maps. in maps with island expansions like python where you have to mine it out to get it, before you require a dropship, now you do not. i feel that they need a new way to block out expansions if this were to come out.




I knew this concern to arise and I am glad you brought it up to be addressed. First lets realize that mining from an island map with blue minerals is the same as mining from a mineral field in your own base except for the advantage that it does not use up minerals in your own base.


Now for the other concern, calling down MULEs on island maps with gold minerals. Allow me to ask one question: In all the maps that Blizzard has shown how many islands with gold minerals have you seen?

For all we know island maps with gold minerals could already be imbalanced towards Terrans with thier lift off and ferry 4 SCVs. Further more is it worth sacrificing awesome gameplay for one particular map set up. Are we not allowed to have cliff jumping units because they would be imbalanced in maps with no cliffs or too many cliffs? And finally isnt it still possible to balance these maps types. For instance you could put the gold minerals in range of marine, stalker or hydralisk fire. Which of course would add another interesting gameplay element.

I think you missed his point. You can use mules to gather the minerals out that block the CC from landing and then take the island expo before you get anywhere near drop tech (the only other way for any race to take an island expo.


Destructable Rocks are the new landing blockers. MULEs cant attack destructable rocks because well MULEs cant attack.

Coincidentally, if you did want to do this as Terran you can lift off your CC and it can carry 4 SCVs. The SCVs can then destroy the destructable rocks provided there is enough space to drop off the SCVs. So yes you might be seeing this tactic in games but it wont be because of Remote Mining MULEs.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
DeCoup
Profile Joined September 2006
Australia1933 Posts
December 25 2009 12:47 GMT
#105
Ah yeah, forgot about the rocks
I wonder if you can drop SCVs while the CC is lifted.
"Poor guy. I really did not deserve that win. So this is what it's like to play Protoss..." - IdrA
emikochan
Profile Joined July 2009
United Kingdom232 Posts
December 25 2009 14:29 GMT
#106
In every non-br game i've seen, people just build their expos next to the rocks and mine anyway...Seems the efficiency you lose in the long term is made up for by the quicker access to the minerals. (i.e. expanding there first)

This is worryingly good for terrans ofcourse since they can lift and reposition at their leisure. (though often I see them transform PF at the high-yield..)

is i only 4 scvs now ? was 5 last i saw, glad they reduced it tbh...
Probes need love too.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
December 27 2009 19:16 GMT
#107
On December 25 2009 23:29 emikochan wrote:
In every non-br game i've seen, people just build their expos next to the rocks and mine anyway...Seems the efficiency you lose in the long term is made up for by the quicker access to the minerals. (i.e. expanding there first)

This is worryingly good for terrans ofcourse since they can lift and reposition at their leisure. (though often I see them transform PF at the high-yield..)


Yes but at least were agreed that this if anything is a concern for Command Centers that ferry SCVs and not a concern for Remote Mining MULEs.


I just wanted to make sure that no one else was concerned about Remote Mining being overpowered on island maps. I know there was allot of talk about this before but I feel like the points I made should help most people see this is not really a big issue.


is i only 4 scvs now ? was 5 last i saw, glad they reduced it tbh.


Actually now that I think about it it might be 5. I think Blizzard wants Terran to be the easy expand race (which remote mining MULEs plays into).
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 31m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 299
RuFF_SC2 137
SpeCial 120
Nathanias 112
PiLiPiLi 28
Jaeyun 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Sharp 64
Dota 2
monkeys_forever817
PGG 118
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K333
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0862
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor140
Other Games
summit1g9923
JimRising 321
Nina49
ArmadaUGS32
febbydoto4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick907
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 56
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Online Event
8h 31m
[BSL 2025] Weekly
15h 31m
Safe House 2
15h 31m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 7h
BSL Team Wars
1d 16h
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
Dewalt vs kogeT
JDConan vs Tarson
RaNgeD vs DragOn
StRyKeR vs Bonyth
Aeternum vs Hejek
Replay Cast
2 days
Map Test Tournament
3 days
Map Test Tournament
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Map Test Tournament
5 days
[ Show More ]
Map Test Tournament
6 days
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
Maestros of the Game
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
Acropolis #4 - TS2
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
Frag Blocktober 2025
Urban Riga Open #1
FERJEE Rush 2025
Birch Cup 2025
DraculaN #2
LanDaLan #3
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2025-26
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
WardiTV TLMC #15
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.