• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:45
CEST 21:45
KST 04:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL72
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread RSL Season 1 - Final Week TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Server Blocker
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Script to open stream directly using middle click ASL20 Preliminary Maps
Tourneys
2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 699 users

The Twelve Days of Theorycrafting! - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Knee_of_Justice
Profile Joined October 2009
United States388 Posts
December 18 2009 00:46 GMT
#61
Well, when people expand, usually they expand near themselves, so they are within the protective envelope of their army, or if they do a hidden expo, the zerg isnt expecting it anyways.

But often they do put lings at each expo, lol.
Its actually very annoying sometimes.

I also approve of the format for this thread. Very original. :D
Protoss Tactical Guide: http://www.sc2armory.com/forums/topic/7903
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
December 18 2009 05:45 GMT
#62
I only dislike remote mining more now.

It seems hard to stop. Zerg would obviously have it the easiest, but then it devolves into what Knee of Justice said: a free expansion that takes no time to set up and can't be destroyed. Moreover, if your free mineral expansion area is taken then your just continue mining at the same rate and mule your own bases. Your economy (read: income) isn't even dented in the slightest, and you can start pulling mules when you see your "expo" in danger. Thus, you might not end up losing *anything at all*.

It also wrecks late game balance. Depending on how long the game is remote mining is either completely useless or amazingly useful. Early game, who cares if you're mining the middle? The only time that would matter is if the minerals are high yield, and honestly... that's pretty pathetic considering all the benefits you attribute to it. We don't even know if all maps will even have high yield minerals. Contrast this with late game. Say you just finally secured control over this island expo and have been mined out for awhile. BAM, you're summoning mules and in 30 seconds your coffers are full again, because 4 non-mining bases can translate to 16 mules. Other races would have to wait minutes for their nexus or hatchery to build before they could start mining... and that with workers that aren't free.

In short, remote mining really doesn't do much of anything but make the endgame harder to balance.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
MiraMax
Profile Joined July 2009
Germany532 Posts
December 18 2009 08:30 GMT
#63
I like the idea of remote mining. I think it better fits lore wise plus adds an interesting dimension to the macro mechanic. Just look at Zerg's Spawn Larva. It is interesting, because it can not only be used to boost your economy, but also to faster switch army techs. Likewise the M.U.L.E. could be used aggressively to steal minerals from your opponent. Obviously there needs to be a risk-reward balance, so M.U.L.E.s should be very slow and weak (so that even a drone/probe can eliminate one with two hits).
If this isn't enough, one could change the M.U.L.E.'s mining mechanic to the following: Every M.U.L.E blocks the mineral patch it is mining one. Instead of gradually decreasing the patch it works on a patch until a) it's time runs out or b) the work done is enough to deplete the patch. Only then are minerals deducted from the patch. Like this an opponent,. who destroys a M.U.L.E. before it is finished suffers no consequences at all. It would have the additional twist, that M.U.L.E. handling becomes more challenging overall, since it is best used on unsaturated expansions (which would provide an incentive for remote mining).
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-18 17:38:20
December 18 2009 17:25 GMT
#64
On December 18 2009 17:30 MiraMax wrote:
If this isn't enough, one could change the M.U.L.E.'s mining mechanic to the following: Every M.U.L.E blocks the mineral patch it is mining one. Instead of gradually decreasing the patch it works on a patch until a) it's time runs out or b) the work done is enough to deplete the patch. Only then are minerals deducted from the patch. Like this an opponent,. who destroys a M.U.L.E. before it is finished suffers no consequences at all. It would have the additional twist, that M.U.L.E. handling becomes more challenging overall, since it is best used on unsaturated expansions (which would provide an incentive for remote mining).



I hadnt thought about that but that seems like an option should balance require it. Does anyone know how worker mining works for this? If I have a SCV and it starts mining and I immediatly order it somewhere else will it have some minerals?
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
December 18 2009 17:30 GMT
#65
So I'm thinking, using a mule to mine out a backdoor like the one in Destination could be done by a mule, and wouldn't it be done faster than with an SCV, so a much better deal if you're contained?
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-18 17:41:08
December 18 2009 17:38 GMT
#66
On December 18 2009 14:45 phyvo wrote:
I only dislike remote mining more now.

It seems hard to stop. Zerg would obviously have it the easiest, but then it devolves into what Knee of Justice said: a free expansion that takes no time to set up and can't be destroyed. Moreover, if your free mineral expansion area is taken then your just continue mining at the same rate and mule your own bases.

Compare with the current MULE which is always called down in the base. Which is easier, killing a MULE undefended at a expo or killing a MULE in a fortified enemy base?



Your economy (read: income) isn't even dented in the slightest, and you can start pulling mules when you see your "expo" in danger. Thus, you might not end up losing *anything at all*.

Whats lost is the potential minerals that you could have gotten from calling down the MULE in your own base.


It also wrecks late game balance.

Game is still in alpha.


Depending on how long the game is remote mining is either completely useless or amazingly useful.

lol I call this goldilocks syndrome. Everything is either massively overpowered or massively underpowered. But never ever ever just right :p


Early game, who cares if you're mining the middle?

Depends what expansion. Is it a expo your going to take, is it an island, is it an enemy expo, will it affect how when or if you expand?


The only time that would matter is if the minerals are high yield,

No. The most often time it will matter is high yield minerals. But not the only.


and honestly... that's pretty pathetic considering all the benefits you attribute to it.

Its funny none of the days so far have even focused on high yield minerals. Did you even read what benefits ive attributed to it so far or is this just an angry rant?

We don't even know if all maps will even have high yield minerals.

lol we dont even know if all maps will have xel naga watch towers, or cliffs or destructable rocks or islands or expansioins.


Contrast this with late game. Say you just finally secured control over this island expo and have been mined out for awhile. BAM, you're summoning mules and in 30 seconds your coffers are full again, because 4 non-mining bases can translate to 16 mules.

Your math is off. 30 seconds translates to 1 MULEs worth of energy. And yes a Remote Mining mechanic does give you remote mining advantages.


Other races would have to wait minutes for their nexus or hatchery to build before they could start mining... and that with workers that aren't free.

Yes. Thats the point.

In short, remote mining really doesn't do much of anything but make the endgame harder to balance.

Dont know where your getting that from. It like your ignoring everything else. And yes new mechanics do require additional balancing. I doubt they dropped warp-in and didnt have to change some things :p
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
December 18 2009 17:43 GMT
#67
I think zerg would balance that with their 40 mineral drones, so what the Terran lacks in the first few minutes needs to be made up with mules.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-18 18:43:49
December 18 2009 18:43 GMT
#68
[image loading]



On the seventh day of Christmas, Blizzard gave to me,


Sever funds for winning,
+ Show Spoiler +
Its late game and things are looking great. Your opponent is almost mined out of his last two expansions. Hes trying to take the middle high yield but if you can starve him first you’ll win the game.

You load up a medivac and head to his first expansion. As the medivac passes over you call down two MULEs on his crumbling mineral line. The enemy retreats his workers from the medivac as the MULE go to work on the minerals. The MULEs cut through his remaining minerals replenishing your coffers. The enemy workers return but find that the MULEs are now blocking them from mining their own minerals. The enemy immediately pulls his army from the middle island and towards his first expo. You fly the medivac over his second expansion dropping 3 more MULEs. The enemy frantically sends some forces to his second expo. They arrive just as you land your medivac in his main and begin taking out his production buildings. GG!!!!!!

Remote Mining MULEs allow for something never seen before in Starcraft, offensive mining. This is you directly stealing the enemy’s minerals for your coffers while preventing his workers from mining. Like worker harass this serves as an intersection between the games economic and combat facets.


Tricky game playing,
+ Show Spoiler +
Its late game and things are looking bad. You need to expand and you need to expand right now. The enemy knows if he keeps you from getting minerals the game is his. Suddenly the enemy sees a banshee fly towards the two free expansions in the upper left of the map. He rallys his army to the first base. Sure enough there are two MULEs mining there. He destroys them but knows that you would have had more MULEs avalible. He heads for the other top expansion. Two more MULEs are frantically mining. He laughs as he dispatches them. The game is his. He moves his army back down to the middle of the map and prepares to walk through the front door. It is only then that he notices that you have taken that time to secure two new expansions in the bottom portion of the map. Your gambit has put you back in the game.

In the first segement of my Thesis to Increase Macro* I mentioned the idea of making macro tasks more like a mini game. Mini games are present throughout Starcraft. One example is scourge vs Muta micro. In a similar manner I believe good macro must incorporate a level of mini game fun with unique dynamics and tasks.

Remote Mining MULE’s would create cat and mouse gameplay where the Terran tries to stealthily mine from hidden positions and the enemy tried to hunt down and destroy these MULEs before they completed their mission. It is like playing the Crane game except there is a tiny crane eating monster swimming among all the toys and you have to dodge it and time your crane dropping correctly. There are benefits to targeting each MULEs to a separate hidden position so it is harder for the enemy to kill them all. This is an example of Non-Redundant Targetin.

Additionally, Remote mining MULEs would allow economic harassment to take place at more places then just a player’s mineral line. Raiders and Mutalisk would not lose their usefulness as soon as the enemy put down enough base defense. These and other raiding units could continue scouting unclaimed expansions. For example, in the scenario up above if the enemy had a few raiding units they could have sent those to quickly destroy the MULEs while maintaining pressure on the enemy.

* http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78498


Finally good targeting!!!
+ Show Spoiler +
The issue of Redundant Targeting may be the best reason to change the MULE. The following is adapted from my SCLegacy article “Examining the Macro Mechanics.” You can read the full article here
http://sclegacy.com/feature/9-contributor/543-examining-the-macro-mechanics

Redundant Targeting occurs when there is not sufficient decision making in a targeting action. A targeting action is when the game asks you to pick a location or candidate. The game is asking for the player’s positional input because there are various viable locations. It is the player’s task to pick the most appropriate choice. Whether an action has Redundant Targeting depends on the frequency the player changes their target, and not just the presence or absence of other targets.

The current MULE has much Redundant Targeting where the player is calling many MULEs to the same location at once and repeating this action many times. To clarify the player will change the destination. But this will not happen often and when it does happen the destination will apply to all MULEs. If you have a Planetary Fortress you want to drop your MULEs there for added protection. If you control a yellow mineral field you want to drop the MULE there for more minerals.

A Remote Mining MULE increases the frequency with which the desired destination changes. It also increases the number of destinations to choose from. If that was not enough there are certain scenarios (next two days) where players might actually want to send each MULE to a different location. Combined these aspects finally give sufficient reason why the player must clarify the target every time.


More falling birds,
+ Show Spoiler +
Wings of Liberty is an appropriately title for the Terran campaign. The Terrans are birds of war, a highly nomadic race adapt at colonizing, harvesting and departing a planet rapidly. This is represented in one of the major Terran themes: Orbital Support. Where ever there is a major conflict you can be sure there is a Terran armada in high orbit above the planet. Some of the in-game representations include buildings that can lift off, nukes that fall from high orbit and satellite scanner sweeps. Starcraft 2 adds to this with the ability to calldown supplies and mining robots from orbital assets.

If you’ve played Halo Wars or Dawn of War you know how cool it feels to visualize troops and supplies dropping from space. One of my favorite things about Halo Wars was seeing supply ships come down to your base, drop off supplies and fly back up to the orbiting cruiser. It really reinforced the feeling that your buildings and war machines weren’t just appearing out of nowhere. They were being deployed to the planet. Your base was a front line outpost. Remember that first scene in Brood Wars where the marine yells “WHERE IS THE AIR SUPPORT?” That is how playing Terran should feel. You should have the impression that you always have orbital support at your back. That you are part of a larger military operation.

Remote Mining MULEs can help reinforce this Terran theme by portraying planet wide strip mining operations. Like the humans in Deadspace, the Terrans are stripping the planet of its resources from above. Thousands of mining droids are descending to remote parts of the planet to survery and extract valuable ores. These are mining droids originally designed for harvesting deep space asteroids and junk metal from derelict vessels. Having gathered their payload they ascend to the orbiting ship they came from.


Free expands,
+ Show Spoiler +
Gameplay wise the Terran have always been adapt at expanding to new mineral fields. In Starcraft 1 Terrans could lift-off and float a Command Center to a new mineral field. In SC2 the Command Center has gained the ability to transport 4 SCVs during lift-off. Combined with a faster lift-off speed the SC2 Terrans have superior expansion capabilities.

A Remote Mining MULE could transform the Terrans knack for expanding into a racially unique playstyle. Like Zerg's larva managment, remote expansion mining would give Terran commanders a new level of resource management. Playing Terran would mean maximizing mineral intake by maintaining map control. Lift-off and SCV ferrying would then allow Terran players to easily upgrade remote MULE expansions to permanent expansions.


A tool turtlers love,
+ Show Spoiler +
Many new players turtle. Much of this is that they are afraid to leave the base. The fog of war makes the enemy seem everywhere. Something as simple as expanding just outside your doorway seems dangerous. This becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as an uncontested enemy expands and contains the new player.

A Remote Mining MULE can help new players overcome this psychological hurdle by showing them that expanding is usually not as hard or dangerous as they think it is. It allows them to put their foot out the door without risking a whole Command Center. As an example they may put a MULE down at a nearby expansion. After a while they learn it is safe to advance their forces to this uncontested area. Finally, seeing that they have secured the area they can begin establishing a new base.

A Remove Mining MULE also serves as an asset for “legitimate” Tutling. These are the great plays that skillfully use timing pushes, chokes, siege tank lines and bunkers to secure victory. Terran are the Turtling race and while this role may be slightly toned down for Starcraft 2 it remains a powerful strategic playstyle. Remote Mining MULEs would allow Turtling players to resist enemy containment by gathering additional resource outside of the base. This provides additional resource flow while the Terran builds up to break out. Additionally, calling down MULE’s on distant parts of the map may force the enemy to divert forces from containment to scouting.


And a brand new M.U.L.E.!
+ Show Spoiler +
Mineral Uptake and Launch Engine (M.U.L.E.)

Step 1: Drop Pod could be called down anywhere the player has vision. This allows MULEs to remotely mine from unoccupied high yield mineral expansions.

Step 2: Drop Pod would tranform into a MULE which would begin mining. It would collect minerals constantly instead of making many mineral trips. If needed player could manually order mineral deposit at a Command Center. Friendly workers could mine from the same mineral patch at the same time but enemy workers would be blocked

Step 3: After 30 seconds the MULE would transform into an Atmospheric Escape Pod and rocket back into space carrying all the minerals it had gathered. The player would then receive the mineral bounty.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
Drakonis
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada97 Posts
December 19 2009 01:47 GMT
#69
A suggestion for game balancing is that MULEs could cost more energy to deploy remotely, say twice the energy for example. So your options could be MULE your own base, or MULE some distant expo at half the income.
thopol
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Japan4560 Posts
December 19 2009 02:09 GMT
#70
I love your idea.
DoX.)
Profile Joined December 2008
Singapore6164 Posts
December 19 2009 03:21 GMT
#71
I like this a lot
Burningsquash
Profile Joined December 2009
United States7 Posts
December 19 2009 05:06 GMT
#72
this was the kind of thing that i had in mind for protoss probes, teleporting to an expansion, and mining from there. and the M.U.L.E. is gonna be WAY too good for turtling. you can mine yourself out, and not have to expand somewhere vulnerable that would get killed.
A short psychic that has escaped from prison is a small medium at large.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-19 06:47:27
December 19 2009 06:45 GMT
#73
On December 19 2009 14:06 Burningsquash wrote:
this was the kind of thing that i had in mind for protoss probes, teleporting to an expansion, and mining from there. and the M.U.L.E. is gonna be WAY too good for turtling. you can mine yourself out, and not have to expand somewhere vulnerable that would get killed.


Remote mining while turtling would certainly be advantageous in certain situations. However you wouldnt want to rely on it exclusively for too long as eventually your opponent could take the whole map.

On December 19 2009 11:09 thopol wrote:
I love your idea.


On December 19 2009 12:21 DoX.) wrote:
I like this a lot




Thanks :D
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
Fontong
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States6454 Posts
December 19 2009 10:12 GMT
#74
Considering that a single unit, or even workers will easily be able to kill a defenseless MULE, I doubt that people will react in some of the ways that you are proposing that they will. Sending their entire army just to kill it, or panicking, doesn't seem too realistic.

But, since this is theorycrafting, i suppose you can have your way.
[SECRET FONT] "Dragoon bunker"
Rufio
Profile Joined December 2009
241 Posts
December 19 2009 15:03 GMT
#75
Really creative thread you've got going there. Thumbs up.
"Rufio Rufio Ru Fi OOOooo" - The Lost Boys
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
December 19 2009 18:53 GMT
#76
On December 19 2009 19:12 Fontong wrote:
Considering that a single unit, or even workers will easily be able to kill a defenseless MULE, I doubt that people will react in some of the ways that you are proposing that they will. Sending their entire army just to kill it, or panicking, doesn't seem too realistic.



If I was the enemy ordering all the workers to attack the MULEs would probably be the best bet. Course than you could just swing back with your medivac with marine payload >
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
Deviation
Profile Joined November 2009
United States134 Posts
December 19 2009 22:31 GMT
#77
It seems like a lot of people are threatened by change. I mean, that's just the general impression I get. It seems like whenever a new idea pops up, no matter how good it is, there are a lot of people that vehemently oppose it. Now there is nothing wrong with that but it's more helpful if those that oppose something have some good reasons and arguments for why they oppose it.
Flicky
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
England2662 Posts
December 19 2009 23:00 GMT
#78
As interesting as the theorycrafting behind the MULE is here, all this thread has really done for me is make me realise how quickly 7 days has passed.
Liquipedia"I was seriously looking for a black guy" - MrHoon
DeCoup
Profile Joined September 2006
Australia1933 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-20 02:04:00
December 20 2009 02:01 GMT
#79
On December 19 2009 19:12 Fontong wrote:
Considering that a single unit, or even workers will easily be able to kill a defenseless MULE, I doubt that people will react in some of the ways that you are proposing that they will. Sending their entire army just to kill it, or panicking, doesn't seem too realistic.

But, since this is theorycrafting, i suppose you can have your way.

All you would need to do is send in a couple of hellions or other units to econ harass to force the player to retreat his probes, then perform the mule drop. Sending the whole army might be a valid option depending on the units chosen for the mineral harass during the mule mineral theft too.

@Archer. I like where you are going with the concept of offensive mining. It would be great if one race could perform offensive gas mining as an alternative to your offensive mule mining. They don't even need the capacity to recieve the gas they mine. Just lowering their gas count is crippling enough once starvation kicks in. The third race could even be given an ability which does not steal or destroy minerals or gas like the first two, but lowers the mineral/gas the workers harvest by 1 for a duration. Kind of like an anti-proton charge. The mineral steal and gas destruction would effect the enemy in the late game, while the anti-proton would effect them almost instantly, but have no actual bearing on lategame play (actually, it could make their resources last longer, so you would need to take advantage of the lowered income at the time before starvation turns your double edge blade back on you).

Edit: Even if they don't modify the Mule for this purpose. It would be quite interesting to add this as a second set of offensive macro mechanics.
1) Allows mining of enemy mineral lines (used while distracting probes with a harass or on unclaimed expansions)
2) Allows destruction of enemy gas (only works on gas which has a refinery already on it), to lower the total gas remaining but does not give the destroyed gas to you.
3) Lowers the minerals and gas collected by effected enemy probes by 1 per trip.
"Poor guy. I really did not deserve that win. So this is what it's like to play Protoss..." - IdrA
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
December 20 2009 02:42 GMT
#80
[image loading]



On the eight day of Christmas, Blizzard gave to me,


Great decision making,
+ Show Spoiler +
Calling down a Remote Mining MULE involves better decision making then the current version of MULEs. This is because the ability to mine remotely gives different profit and risk considerations for each mineral line. Dropping MULEs in the home base has the lowest risk but also the lowest profit. MULEs aiding your controled mineral lines have your base defences for protection. However, their accelerated mining will speed up the depletion of your base and hasten the point at which you need to expand. Despite this pressure controlled mineral lines will still be the most often target for calling down MULEs.

Dropping MULEs on expansions outside of your base allows you to harvest minerals without speeding up the timer on mineral fields you control. Therefore this type of mining is appropriate when you have map control or a contain. Mining from mineral lines you dont control yet are also useful when the enemy is harassing your base mineral line. Mineral lines on islands or behind destructable rocks have less risk and also wont deplete your base mineral lines.

Dropping MULEs at mineral lines on your enemies side of the map is even more risky then dropping on your side of the map. However it has the added benefit of decreasing minerals that your enemy can claim later in the game. Taking mineral lines that the enemy will eventually claim is like stealing from them in the future. This is especially practical when you have a contain or when you want to draw enemies away from your base. Dropping MULEs on mineral lines your opponent currently controls certainly carries the highest amount of risk. But any minerals taken count double. First your are depriving the enemy of minerals and second you are recieving those minerals provided the enemy does not destroy the MULE first.

Finally, we have the ability to drop MULEs on high yield yellow mineral lines. This nets you the forty percent more minerals than MULEs called down at a regular mineral line. However, the enemy also knows these will be the most attractive target. Remote Mining MULEs create interesting decision making for both the Terran and the opponent. For instance, opponents may try to continually scout yellow minerals lines. Alternatively opponents may wait for Terrans to drop MULEs and then pounce on them before they can complete their gathering.


Sever funds for winning,
+ Show Spoiler +
Its late game and things are looking great. Your opponent is almost mined out of his last two expansions. Hes trying to take the middle high yield but if you can starve him first you’ll win the game.

You load up a medivac and head to his first expansion. As the medivac passes over you call down two MULEs on his crumbling mineral line. The enemy retreats his workers from the medivac as the MULE go to work on the minerals. The MULEs cut through his remaining minerals replenishing your coffers. The enemy workers return but find that the MULEs are now blocking them from mining their own minerals. The enemy immediately pulls his army from the middle island and towards his first expo. You fly the medivac over his second expansion dropping 3 more MULEs. The enemy frantically sends some forces to his second expo. They arrive just as you land your medivac in his main and begin taking out his production buildings. GG!!!!!!

Remote Mining MULEs allow for something never seen before in Starcraft, offensive mining. This is you directly stealing the enemy’s minerals for your coffers while preventing his workers from mining. Like worker harass this serves as an intersection between the games economic and combat facets.


Tricky game playing,
+ Show Spoiler +
Its late game and things are looking bad. You need to expand and you need to expand right now. The enemy knows if he keeps you from getting minerals the game is his. Suddenly the enemy sees a banshee fly towards the two free expansions in the upper left of the map. He rallys his army to the first base. Sure enough there are two MULEs mining there. He destroys them but knows that you would have had more MULEs avalible. He heads for the other top expansion. Two more MULEs are frantically mining. He laughs as he dispatches them. The game is his. He moves his army back down to the middle of the map and prepares to walk through the front door. It is only then that he notices that you have taken that time to secure two new expansions in the bottom portion of the map. Your gambit has put you back in the game.

In the first segement of my Thesis to Increase Macro* I mentioned the idea of making macro tasks more like a mini game. Mini games are present throughout Starcraft. One example is scourge vs Muta micro. In a similar manner I believe good macro must incorporate a level of mini game fun with unique dynamics and tasks.

Remote Mining MULE’s would create cat and mouse gameplay where the Terran tries to stealthily mine from hidden positions and the enemy tried to hunt down and destroy these MULEs before they completed their mission. It is like playing the Crane game except there is a tiny crane eating monster swimming among all the toys and you have to dodge it and time your crane dropping correctly. There are benefits to targeting each MULEs to a separate hidden position so it is harder for the enemy to kill them all. This is an example of Non-Redundant Targetin.

Additionally, Remote mining MULEs would allow economic harassment to take place at more places then just a player’s mineral line. Raiders and Mutalisk would not lose their usefulness as soon as the enemy put down enough base defense. These and other raiding units could continue scouting unclaimed expansions. For example, in the scenario up above if the enemy had a few raiding units they could have sent those to quickly destroy the MULEs while maintaining pressure on the enemy.

* http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78498


Finally good targeting!!!
+ Show Spoiler +
The issue of Redundant Targeting may be the best reason to change the MULE. The following is adapted from my SCLegacy article “Examining the Macro Mechanics.” You can read the full article here
http://sclegacy.com/feature/9-contributor/543-examining-the-macro-mechanics

Redundant Targeting occurs when there is not sufficient decision making in a targeting action. A targeting action is when the game asks you to pick a location or candidate. The game is asking for the player’s positional input because there are various viable locations. It is the player’s task to pick the most appropriate choice. Whether an action has Redundant Targeting depends on the frequency the player changes their target, and not just the presence or absence of other targets.

The current MULE has much Redundant Targeting where the player is calling many MULEs to the same location at once and repeating this action many times. To clarify the player will change the destination. But this will not happen often and when it does happen the destination will apply to all MULEs. If you have a Planetary Fortress you want to drop your MULEs there for added protection. If you control a yellow mineral field you want to drop the MULE there for more minerals.

A Remote Mining MULE increases the frequency with which the desired destination changes. It also increases the number of destinations to choose from. If that was not enough there are certain scenarios (next two days) where players might actually want to send each MULE to a different location. Combined these aspects finally give sufficient reason why the player must clarify the target every time.


More falling birds,
+ Show Spoiler +
Wings of Liberty is an appropriately title for the Terran campaign. The Terrans are birds of war, a highly nomadic race adapt at colonizing, harvesting and departing a planet rapidly. This is represented in one of the major Terran themes: Orbital Support. Where ever there is a major conflict you can be sure there is a Terran armada in high orbit above the planet. Some of the in-game representations include buildings that can lift off, nukes that fall from high orbit and satellite scanner sweeps. Starcraft 2 adds to this with the ability to calldown supplies and mining robots from orbital assets.

If you’ve played Halo Wars or Dawn of War you know how cool it feels to visualize troops and supplies dropping from space. One of my favorite things about Halo Wars was seeing supply ships come down to your base, drop off supplies and fly back up to the orbiting cruiser. It really reinforced the feeling that your buildings and war machines weren’t just appearing out of nowhere. They were being deployed to the planet. Your base was a front line outpost. Remember that first scene in Brood Wars where the marine yells “WHERE IS THE AIR SUPPORT?” That is how playing Terran should feel. You should have the impression that you always have orbital support at your back. That you are part of a larger military operation.

Remote Mining MULEs can help reinforce this Terran theme by portraying planet wide strip mining operations. Like the humans in Deadspace, the Terrans are stripping the planet of its resources from above. Thousands of mining droids are descending to remote parts of the planet to survery and extract valuable ores. These are mining droids originally designed for harvesting deep space asteroids and junk metal from derelict vessels. Having gathered their payload they ascend to the orbiting ship they came from.


Free expands,
+ Show Spoiler +
Gameplay wise the Terran have always been adapt at expanding to new mineral fields. In Starcraft 1 Terrans could lift-off and float a Command Center to a new mineral field. In SC2 the Command Center has gained the ability to transport 4 SCVs during lift-off. Combined with a faster lift-off speed the SC2 Terrans have superior expansion capabilities.

A Remote Mining MULE could transform the Terrans knack for expanding into a racially unique playstyle. Like Zerg's larva managment, remote expansion mining would give Terran commanders a new level of resource management. Playing Terran would mean maximizing mineral intake by maintaining map control. Lift-off and SCV ferrying would then allow Terran players to easily upgrade remote MULE expansions to permanent expansions.


A tool turtlers love,
+ Show Spoiler +
Many new players turtle. Much of this is that they are afraid to leave the base. The fog of war makes the enemy seem everywhere. Something as simple as expanding just outside your doorway seems dangerous. This becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as an uncontested enemy expands and contains the new player.

A Remote Mining MULE can help new players overcome this psychological hurdle by showing them that expanding is usually not as hard or dangerous as they think it is. It allows them to put their foot out the door without risking a whole Command Center. As an example they may put a MULE down at a nearby expansion. After a while they learn it is safe to advance their forces to this uncontested area. Finally, seeing that they have secured the area they can begin establishing a new base.

A Remove Mining MULE also serves as an asset for “legitimate” Tutling. These are the great plays that skillfully use timing pushes, chokes, siege tank lines and bunkers to secure victory. Terran are the Turtling race and while this role may be slightly toned down for Starcraft 2 it remains a powerful strategic playstyle. Remote Mining MULEs would allow Turtling players to resist enemy containment by gathering additional resource outside of the base. This provides additional resource flow while the Terran builds up to break out. Additionally, calling down MULE’s on distant parts of the map may force the enemy to divert forces from containment to scouting.


And a brand new M.U.L.E.!
+ Show Spoiler +
Mineral Uptake and Launch Engine (M.U.L.E.)
Step 1: Drop Pod could be called down anywhere the player has vision. This allows MULEs to remotely mine from unoccupied high yield mineral expansions.

Step 2: Drop Pod would tranform into a MULE which would begin mining. It would collect minerals constantly instead of making many mineral trips. If needed the MULE could be manually order to drop minerals off at a Command Center. Friendly workers could mine from the same mineral patch at the same time as a MULE but enemy workers would be blocked

Step 3: After 30 seconds the MULE would transform into an Atmospheric Escape Pod and rocket back into space carrying all the minerals it had gathered. The player would then receive the mineral bounty.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
DaveTesta Events
18:00
Kirktown Ready Room #3
davetesta142
Liquipedia
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18:00
RO8 Round Robin Group - Day 1
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
ZZZero.O211
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 155
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 211
Dewaltoss 108
HiyA 96
LaStScan 81
Terrorterran 23
Dota 2
qojqva2670
monkeys_forever226
syndereN172
League of Legends
Grubby4229
Dendi1055
Counter-Strike
fl0m1745
Stewie2K536
flusha487
Foxcn381
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor906
Other Games
B2W.Neo1246
Hui .117
ToD113
Sick86
Pyrionflax77
Trikslyr68
mouzStarbuck61
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick51253
StarCraft 2
angryscii 38
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 208
• printf 82
• StrangeGG 58
• tFFMrPink 20
• Legendk 11
• OhrlRock 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2990
League of Legends
• Jankos1968
• Doublelift1926
Other Games
• imaqtpie1789
• Shiphtur364
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
14h 15m
RSL Revival
14h 15m
Classic vs Clem
FEL
19h 15m
Elazer vs Spirit
Gerald vs MaNa
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
22h 15m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
1d 15h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.