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On June 08 2010 00:14 shawabawa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2010 00:07 bb82 wrote:
Any other advice, other than "l2p, bronze league, single player, custom games"?
What do you want people to say?
I don't know, I'm mainly just frustrated. I'm a huge fan of the potential of this game and I have some fond early memories of SC. But for the same reason I decided not to stay with SC, I will probably be forced to leave SC2. I just don't want to waste all my free time, solely to increase my APM constructively enough to "compete" in a non-arcadey fashion.
Your advice about just spamming APM might not be that bad of an idea, but I'm kind of doing that already in the multi-tasker map.
I just find it such a waste. There is a reason the SC ladders eventually died out (no new blood) and why custom maps and zero-clutter where such big hits. Many want to play in a 1v1 atmosphere, but not at the default speed where strategy is minimized and high-APM is a requirement.
-bb82
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I don't think the ultra slow, casual RTS crowd that you're alluding to exists anymore. Even the most casual people I know, the ones who never played the original Starcraft and the last RTS they played was Red Alert 2, have been able to pick up the beta and happily compete in Bronze. That's why there isn't a permanent league like the Practice League, where all entrances are walled off and where the game is stuck at just "Fast." Blizzard feels that it is more than reasonable to assume that everyone should be able to graduate beyond this level of play.
I also think most of the players here would strongly disagree with your assessment that "strategy = slow play." You're being unrealistic about what SC2 is and what it should be.
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I was under the impression that Practice League is basically like any other league but with blocked entrances (novice maps) and a lower speed setting? Is that not exactly what you are looking for? Or am I mistaken?
Usually people will just cheese some quick air, win quickly or then quit. It is a decent start, but it also wont teach you much. I think they should get rid of the blocked entrances part and I only think the speed is slightly decreased. I may be wrong though, but I think it is on the "fast" setting?
I've tested the speeds, awhile ago so they might have changed. But I liked "normal" or maybe a speed that is half between the "slow" and "normal" speed. If they make a less competitive league (not call it "practice league"), where "normal" is the default speed AND add rank and divisions so it is competitive, then I would be very content and the SC community would be more "noob" friendly. I would permanently stay in that league for years to come.
Also, you might want to check out djWHEAT's show with Chill if you haven't, Weapon of Choice, and in particular the Chill 101. One of the first tips was to just concentrate on macro and nothing else, just make a ton of units.
This is in part why I picked the zerg to play with. I hotkey everything, even have buttons on my mouse to help with backspace, esc, ctrl, shift, 9, and 0 buttons. I even made one macro to automatically spawn larva at all my hatches..
But I don't like how zerg lost their swarmy feeling and that their troops just melt to the other races. But once again, the main problem is that I can't come close to reacting fast enough. The battles last mere seconds at most. I'm even playing with the grid setup, which is nice (other than attack being 't').
I played T for awhile, but they are not noob friendly and I don't like their units that are too similar to armies in this day of age. So I did switch permanently to P (their units have always been my favorite), where I'm trying mass stalker strategies to wing me into a longer game where I can start to try to improve my micro/macro APM.
-bb82
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Bear in mind that playing at a slower speed setting might actually make it easier for someone with good (or even beastly) apm to beat you, because they can fit so many more actions into what is essentially a smaller unit of game time, potentially resulting in closer-to-perfect play. (Providing they know what they're doing.)
I think the 1v1 aspect of starcraft is always intense, and always difficult if you're playing properly, you just can't play it in a laid back fashion - I've tried it and I nearly always lose. So saying that, I'm not sure there's a compromise, maybe play custom games for fun if you want a rest? Otherwise, it's just practice and if you don't like it then you probably don't like starcraft.
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On June 08 2010 00:46 accaris wrote:
I don't think the ultra slow, casual RTS crowd that you're alluding to exists anymore.
"Casual" is extremely relative and I would prefer not to argue semantics.
But I partial agree with what you said. But mainly because the latest RTS or RTS-like games have forced many to move onto other things. Nowadays there is a false belief that speed is "better". Usually it is the opposite.
And I personally wouldn't group many that are playing beta, or their friends, in the "casual" group. Many that play RTS nowadays make up a very small minority of people. You are either use to speed-RTS or not and play something else. The supper-fast speed is what keeps a huge pool of potential players way. Many "casuals" will try this game but quickly move on. It is a waste, imo.
On June 08 2010 00:59 Panoptic wrote:
Bear in mind that playing at a slower speed setting might actually make it easier for someone with good (or even beastly) apm to beat you, because they can fit so many more actions into what is essentially a smaller unit of game time, potentially resulting in closer-to-perfect play. (Providing they know what they're doing.)
I've heard this argument before. But the truth is that even though a higher APM person can do more in the time that is left, the two are on a more even playing field because the APM advantage is partially minimized. The lesser APM person might still lose, but at least that person can finally perform critical game functions.
-bb82
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No strategy and all clicking? Have you watched ANY of the europe vs asia showmatches? If your not happy with the "lore" (zerg is not zergy enough for you, and terran using too many "this day of age" units) then go play world of warcraft.
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On June 08 2010 01:00 Kelethius wrote:
If your not happy with the "lore" (zerg is not zergy enough for you, and terran using too many "this day of age" units) then go play world of warcraft.
foh serious
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On June 08 2010 01:00 Kelethius wrote:
No strategy and all clicking? Have you watched ANY of the europe vs asia showmatches? If your not happy with the "lore" (zerg is not zergy enough for you, and terran using too many "this day of age" units) then go play world of warcraft.
This gamer kind of proves my point about this being an elitist community, with a 1v1 ladder that will turn away a huge pool of players. I talk about an APM casual/noob's perspective and he counters with "see how the pros do it".
I will never be a pro, nor would I want to be. But I'm also a person that knows I could find much enjoyment out of this game if there was competitive ladder with a much slower speed.
-bb82
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I'm really not sure why you're spamming day9s thread with your problems...Just practice more and play qxc's training maps. Starcraft is not easy, keep playing/practicing and you will gradually improve
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Can anyone link me or tell me which daily has Day9 look at some cool Nydus use.
I keep hearing him talk about Koreans Nydus use, like Sen, but I went through a few of the Sen Day9s and didn't see any use of the NW....
thanks 
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bb82, you are always talking about how low your APM is.
How low is it? I personally run around with 60 APM average (spiking to ~100 in fights) and I am in the gold league. A friend of mine is ~35 APM average (spiking to ~60) and is silver.
Is ~30 APM really that hard to achieve for you? Hard to imagine for me. Or do you just think "omg those pros have 200+ APM" and therefore just think you are extremely bad?
I think your mindset is the problem, not your APM 
Can anyone link me or tell me which daily has Day9 look at some cool Nydus use.
I keep hearing him talk about Koreans Nydus use, like Sen, but I went through a few of the Sen Day9s and didn't see any use of the NW....
I dont recall a daily being done about this.
You should check his blip.tv account Asia vs Europe showmatches. Sen (and Gerrard) seem to favour Nydus use.
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On June 08 2010 01:15 bb82 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2010 01:00 Kelethius wrote:
No strategy and all clicking? Have you watched ANY of the europe vs asia showmatches? If your not happy with the "lore" (zerg is not zergy enough for you, and terran using too many "this day of age" units) then go play world of warcraft. This gamer kind of proves my point about this being an elitist community, with a 1v1 ladder that will turn away a huge pool of players. I talk about an APM casual/noob's perspective and he counters with "see how the pros do it". I will never be a pro, nor would I want to be. But I'm also a person that knows I could find much enjoyment out of this game if there was competitive ladder with a much slower speed. -bb82
I'm a terrible who used to play World of Warcraft, and I think that having my hand held by Blizzard is a great way to ruin the game.
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Sorry to hijack the flamefest, but a question. How will Day9 be doing his dailies when the beta is offline. Is there a way to watch replays in some sort of offline mode?
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On June 08 2010 01:43 Smooches wrote:
Sorry to hijack the flamefest, but a question. How will Day9 be doing his dailies when the beta is offline. Is there a way to watch replays in some sort of offline mode?
Yes, if you drag and drop the replay on the sc2.exe it will play the replay offline. He's already said the d9d will be running during the downtime.
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Yea I knew he said it would run during downtime, thanks for clarifying how!
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Oh well that just made my day.
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haha, sounded like a Gretorp orgasm when the ultras and bannelings wiped out the terran forces in game 1 of Haypro v Maka
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On June 08 2010 00:28 bb82 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2010 00:14 shawabawa wrote:On June 08 2010 00:07 bb82 wrote:
Any other advice, other than "l2p, bronze league, single player, custom games"?
What do you want people to say? I don't know, I'm mainly just frustrated. I'm a huge fan of the potential of this game and I have some fond early memories of SC. But for the same reason I decided not to stay with SC, I will probably be forced to leave SC2. I just don't want to waste all my free time, solely to increase my APM constructively enough to "compete" in a non-arcadey fashion. Your advice about just spamming APM might not be that bad of an idea, but I'm kind of doing that already in the multi-tasker map. I just find it such a waste. There is a reason the SC ladders eventually died out (no new blood) and why custom maps and zero-clutter where such big hits. Many want to play in a 1v1 atmosphere, but not at the default speed where strategy is minimized and high-APM is a requirement. -bb82
Sorry I had to make an account because this post confused me. What is your average APM? Mine rarely goes above 50, and I'm currently 16-3 in Platinum and hoping they will bump me up to diamond in the next few games. APM is definitely nice to have, but I would try and concentrate more on your builds. Do you use the same build every game? You shouldn't. Try and respond to what your opponent is doing. I love Day9's philosophy of what is your opponent currently capable of. Hang in there, keep watching Day9, and practice practice practice. I have no doubt you can reach Diamond when the game is released.
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Sorry I had to make an account because this post confused me. What is your average APM? Mine rarely goes above 50, and I'm currently 16-3 in Platinum and hoping they will bump me up to diamond in the next few games. APM is definitely nice to have, but I would try and concentrate more on your builds. Do you use the same build every game? You shouldn't. Try and respond to what your opponent is doing. I love Day9's philosophy of what is your opponent currently capable of. Hang in there, keep watching Day9, and practice practice practice. I have no doubt you can reach Diamond when the game is released.
His problem isn't really APM. It's that default Starcraft 2 is just fast-paced in general. He doesn't like the fact that battles are over in only a few seconds, and he wants to take lots of time to build up strategies without being attacked. He doesn't like having to make tons of split-second decisions; in fact, he doesn't even think that qualifies as strategy. As a result, he's going to be frustrated with Starcraft 2, and none of this forum's gameplay advice is going to help. He wants a slow-play-only league, and without it, he's always going to be frustrated with the game.
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On June 08 2010 02:41 accaris wrote:Show nested quote +
Sorry I had to make an account because this post confused me. What is your average APM? Mine rarely goes above 50, and I'm currently 16-3 in Platinum and hoping they will bump me up to diamond in the next few games. APM is definitely nice to have, but I would try and concentrate more on your builds. Do you use the same build every game? You shouldn't. Try and respond to what your opponent is doing. I love Day9's philosophy of what is your opponent currently capable of. Hang in there, keep watching Day9, and practice practice practice. I have no doubt you can reach Diamond when the game is released.
His problem isn't really APM. It's that default Starcraft 2 is just fast-paced in general. He doesn't like the fact that battles are over in only a few seconds, and he wants to take lots of time to build up strategies without being attacked. He doesn't like having to make tons of split-second decisions; in fact, he doesn't even think that qualifies as strategy. As a result, he's going to be frustrated with Starcraft 2, and none of this forum's gameplay advice is going to help. He wants a slow-play-only league, and without it, he's always going to be frustrated with the game.
He's the same guy who wants to play on 8 feet basketball goals with a woman's sized basketball. He is THAT guy.
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EPT
